Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9738 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 1): Haven't NH said that they want just three types in future: the 737, 787 and 777? This is another step towards that goal.
Yes, they did say that. However, that would mean ordering a lot more 777-300ERs to replace all remaining 747-400s, and ordering more 777-300s to replace the Domestic 747-400s. Thats approximately 15-20 more planes needed to be ordered if they want to fully phase out the 747.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1286 posts, RR: 12 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9593 times:
Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter): ANA has announced ordering 4 more 777-300ERs on press release issued on 06MAR07.
All 4 777-300ER will be delivered in 2009, which will have a fleet of 14 by the end of 2009.
I thought Boeing said the 777 line is sold out until 2011!! How come ANA is getting theirs in 2009 if they just ordered them? JL's ceo recently said he wants some 777's but none are available until...get this...2013. Something is a miss here. Did ANA have any options on 773's?
Quoting MrComet (Reply 4): The 744 must really be inefficient in todays market.
I wouldn't say that exactly but I think the 773ER is just way too efficient than the 744.
NH's Japanese press release doesn't indicate when the 773ERs are due but you are probably right or some may even come in late 2008.
With this order, their total 773ER order will be 17 with eight delivered. They will take delivery of four this fiscal year, which leaves one aircraft to be delivered from the previous order in probably 2008.
2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9490 times:
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5): I thought Boeing said the 777 line is sold out until 2011!! How come ANA is getting theirs in 2009 if they just ordered them?
Because this figure included options/LoIs/commitments. NH obviously has exercised some options or had an existing LoI with Boeing.
Raggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 959 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9392 times:
Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter): The 747-400s will be sold to Oasis Growth Income and Investments Limited which will lease to Oasis Hong Kong Airlines
Slightly off topic, but interesting to see that Oasis will get these ex- NH birds, since they are GE- powered, when the ones they have now are PW- powered.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9365 times:
Quoting Raggi (Reply 8): Slightly off topic, but interesting to see that Oasis will get these ex- NH birds, since they are GE- powered, when the ones they have now are PW- powered.
I think they outsource most of the MX stuff anyway so its probably not a big deal.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
SkyGazer From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9327 times:
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5): I wouldn't say that exactly but I think the 773ER is just way too efficient than the 744.
I wouldn't say so. In a lot of cases, airlines are replacing 774s with 773ERs purely because they are downsizing the type of aircraft at their top end (like NH). The 777 is a twin and being newer, has lower MX costs. Don't the 2 types have roughly similar CASM figures?
Also, bear in mind that a lot of 774s are reaching the end of their "useful" life cycle for the top tier airlines, who are seeking replacements.
PHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9309 times:
Quoting SkyGazer (Reply 11):
Also, bear in mind that a lot of 774s are reaching the end of their "useful" life cycle for the top tier airlines, who are seeking replacements.
It is more like: do we decide to perform an entire D-check on the plane ourselves, which is very expensive, or do we replace the plane by a new one that better fits our network, has lower costs and saves us the investment in a new D-check on the 747's. From this perspective it is not strange they are selling the 747's at around 9 years of age (likely 1 year before a new D-check is due depending on the use of the air frames).
Cloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2425 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9073 times:
Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 3): Ah, so this is where the Oasis planes are coming from!! Now they just need some pilots!
Cathay has plenty for them to pinch.
Quoting Raggi (Reply 8): Slightly off topic, but interesting to see that Oasis will get these ex- NH birds, since they are GE- powered, when the ones they have now are PW- powered.
Considerimg their scarcity on the second hand market, Oasis is after anything. Engines are no problem, HAECO fixes everything.
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14): How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?
Close to zero. They have explicitly stated B773ERs will be their biggest plane for the forseeable future.
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6302 posts, RR: 39 Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8890 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14): How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?
Think of hell and snowballs.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
PHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8848 times:
Quoting MrComet (Reply 17): How much does a D check cost? How long is the plane out of service? I
For a 747 this could be weeks, even a full month or more depending on what needs to be replaced and the state of the A/C. A D-check will mean the plane is entirely dismantled and then re-assambled at a MX facility. This is very labour intensive and as such a D-check will costs several million USD, not including actual replacements that have to be done (parts, etc).
On a side note, engines usually have a completely different maintenance cycle and do not follow the C/D check pattern.
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10567 posts, RR: 21 Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8716 times:
Quoting MrComet (Reply 4): Those are rather short lives -- only 7 and 8 years in service. The 744 must really be inefficient in todays market.
If that were totally true, they'd be going to the scrapyard or be converted to freighters where their duty cycle is much lower. I think as others have said that this is a case of 'rightsizing' to fit ANA's current needs, and another step towards simplifying their fleet. The fact that the 777 is so efficient makes this an easier decision to make.
Quote:
The long-term fleet plan is built around the 777 and 787. Earlier this year the airline announced the sale of six 747-400s to Avion Aircraft Trading of Iceland and the stated aim is to sell the entire 747-400 fleet. Interestingly, despite this plan, Yamamoto is not ruling out the 747-8 Intercontinental or A380 for international operations: "We'll see what effect the A380 has on our competitiveness." Star partners Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa, along with Qantas, plan to operate the A380 to Narita.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1286 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8588 times:
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 7): Because this figure included options/LoIs/commitments. NH obviously has exercised some options or had an existing LoI with Boeing.
JL won't be too pleased then. Their national rival is getting 773's 4-5 years before they're able to.
NH's 773 is the best looking 773 out there if you ask me.
Jimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8378 times:
Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6): NH's Japanese press release doesn't indicate when the 773ERs are due but you are probably right or some may even come in late 2008.
Go to their investor relations part and there's the delivery date specified
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14): How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?
Nil. They're never interested in the 747-8 but did hint may get A380 when they feel is necessary.
JAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1215 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7779 times:
Another week, another 4 777s sold. I think its gonna be a banner year for the 777 once again. Jeez, the 777 could be as common place as the 737 at area aiports soon! (ok slight exaggeration)
25 BoeingFever777: Very doubtful... NH has stated for awhile they want to only fly 3 type of a/c in the future. http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...ews&storyid=62460
26 CX747: As an earlier poster mentioned, it is ANA's philosophy to phase out their 747 fleet in favor of 777s. They are downsizing and no longer want the capac
27 EI321: I also think its only possible in the long term, but looking at the comments made by Yamamoto in the article I posted, there seems to be a suggestion
28 Ultrapig: I understand this but what I don't get is the buyer has to pay for a D check thus reducing the value of the used airplane. Isn't it like having a car
29 Express1: I got word in here that ANA are to send in to LHR B773ERs starting 25th May, NH201 on the afternoon flight eta 1555 and the B744 service put back to a
30 SEPilot: Obviously the price of a plane reflects its maintenance status. The question for ANA (or any other airline) is whether they want to pay for the D-che
31 DAYflyer: If everyone keeps doing this 777 for 747 swap, we will be seeing a 2 engine powered 747 before too long
32 Carpethead: No exaggeration if you come to HND. Just a Japanese phenomena. Ask LH or EK how many four-holers they have on order.
34 SEPilot: Not just Japanese; how many US carriers have any four-holers on order?
35 CX747: If one looks at Europe and Oceania though, there are plenty of 4 holers on order. This has more to do with with a smaller capacity aircraft (777-300ER
36 Centrair: I might be digging too deeply but I think it has to deal with product. That same article states that NH wants to become #1 in Asia and maybe the worl
37 CX flyboy: I could do that yes, but then when they go bust I will have no seniority number!
38 LTU932: Replacing the domestic 744s with 773As seems impossible. AFAIK, the very last 773A was delivered to CX a few months ago, so as far as the 777-300 pro
39 Stitch: Boeing will happily build you a 773A, I imagine. However, the 787-3 probably offers better economics, even with it's lower capacity.
40 Norcal773: C'mon now, think positively. Competition for your airline is a good thing.
41 DfwRevolution: Stitch is correct, the 777-300A is still on offer from Boeing. That goes for all 777 models.
42 CX flyboy: Sure it is....what I meant was that I get the impression that they are not faring too well and I hae my doubts as to whether this airline can last. C
43 UAEflyer: For how much they will sell the 744? it should be expensive because they are in a very good condition
44 EK413: Truly this has to be the icing on the cake and proves the B747 days are numbered as a PAX variant... Boy I love the T7! R.I.P. B747
46 APChigoSea: Quoting Ultrapig:I understand this but what I don't get is the buyer has to pay for a D check thus reducing the value of the used airplane. Isn't it l
47 SEPilot: As Mark Twain once said, the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated... I agree that the main use for the 747 is going to be freight from he
48 EK413: Oops Other than the lovely LH order as a launch carrier for the pax variant B748i I personally believe the program won't receive large orders when Bo
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JL's ceo recently said he wants some 777's but none are available until...get this...2013. Something is a miss here. Did ANA have any options on 773's?
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