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ANA Orders 4 More 777-300ER, Sell 3 More 747-400  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11064 times:

ANA has announced ordering 4 more 777-300ERs on press release issued on 06MAR07.

All 4 777-300ER will be delivered in 2009, which will have a fleet of 14 by the end of 2009.

At the meantime it'll sell 3 more 747-400s. ANA currently have 23 in operation, 6 frames were announced to be sold previously.

The 747-400s to be sold are:

JA404A, phased in in 1999, to be retired in 2007
JA405A, phased in in 2000, to be retired in 2007
JA403A, phased in in 1999, to be retired in 2008

The 747-400s will be sold to Oasis Growth Income and Investments Limited which will lease to Oasis Hong Kong Airlines

[Edited 2007-03-06 07:33:49]

[Edited 2007-03-06 07:40:37]

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11048 times:

Interesting. Haven't NH said that they want just three types in future: the 737, 787 and 777? This is another step towards that goal.

User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10922 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
Haven't NH said that they want just three types in future: the 737, 787 and 777? This is another step towards that goal.

Yes, they did say that. However, that would mean ordering a lot more 777-300ERs to replace all remaining 747-400s, and ordering more 777-300s to replace the Domestic 747-400s. Thats approximately 15-20 more planes needed to be ordered if they want to fully phase out the 747.


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6587 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10926 times:

Ah, so this is where the Oasis planes are coming from!! Now they just need some pilots!

User currently offlineMrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 520 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10968 times:

Those are rather short lives -- only 7 and 8 years in service. The 744 must really be inefficient in todays market.


The dude abides
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10777 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
ANA has announced ordering 4 more 777-300ERs on press release issued on 06MAR07.

All 4 777-300ER will be delivered in 2009, which will have a fleet of 14 by the end of 2009.

I thought Boeing said the 777 line is sold out until 2011!! How come ANA is getting theirs in 2009 if they just ordered them?  confused  JL's ceo recently said he wants some 777's but none are available until...get this...2013. Something is a miss here. Did ANA have any options on 773's?

Quoting MrComet (Reply 4):
The 744 must really be inefficient in todays market.

I wouldn't say that exactly but I think the 773ER is just way too efficient than the 744.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10695 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):

NH's Japanese press release doesn't indicate when the 773ERs are due but you are probably right or some may even come in late 2008.

With this order, their total 773ER order will be 17 with eight delivered. They will take delivery of four this fiscal year, which leaves one aircraft to be delivered from the previous order in probably 2008.


User currently offline2wingtips From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10674 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
I thought Boeing said the 777 line is sold out until 2011!! How come ANA is getting theirs in 2009 if they just ordered them?

Because this figure included options/LoIs/commitments. NH obviously has exercised some options or had an existing LoI with Boeing.


User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10576 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
The 747-400s will be sold to Oasis Growth Income and Investments Limited which will lease to Oasis Hong Kong Airlines

Slightly off topic, but interesting to see that Oasis will get these ex- NH birds, since they are GE- powered, when the ones they have now are PW- powered.

raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10549 times:

Quoting Raggi (Reply 8):
Slightly off topic, but interesting to see that Oasis will get these ex- NH birds, since they are GE- powered, when the ones they have now are PW- powered.

I think they outsource most of the MX stuff anyway so its probably not a big deal.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10515 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 9):

Okelidokeli


filler filler



raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineSkyGazer From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10511 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 5):
I wouldn't say that exactly but I think the 773ER is just way too efficient than the 744.

I wouldn't say so. In a lot of cases, airlines are replacing 774s with 773ERs purely because they are downsizing the type of aircraft at their top end (like NH). The 777 is a twin and being newer, has lower MX costs. Don't the 2 types have roughly similar CASM figures?

Also, bear in mind that a lot of 774s are reaching the end of their "useful" life cycle for the top tier airlines, who are seeking replacements.

[Edited 2007-03-06 10:39:47]

[Edited 2007-03-06 10:40:08]


Types flown: B738, B772ER, B773, B77W, B744, A310, A320, A321, A332, A333, A343, A388
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10493 times:

Quoting SkyGazer (Reply 11):

Also, bear in mind that a lot of 774s are reaching the end of their "useful" life cycle for the top tier airlines, who are seeking replacements.

It is more like: do we decide to perform an entire D-check on the plane ourselves, which is very expensive, or do we replace the plane by a new one that better fits our network, has lower costs and saves us the investment in a new D-check on the 747's. From this perspective it is not strange they are selling the 747's at around 9 years of age (likely 1 year before a new D-check is due depending on the use of the air frames).


User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10418 times:

Just to confirm then.

ANA have also sold JA8904, JA402A, JA8095, JA401A, JA8096 and JA8097 to the Air Atlanta group who will convert them to B744SF/BCF's?

Is this still the case?

cheers

Tom/WA


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10326 times:

How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?

User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10257 times:

Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 3):
Ah, so this is where the Oasis planes are coming from!! Now they just need some pilots!

Cathay has plenty for them to pinch.

Quoting Raggi (Reply 8):
Slightly off topic, but interesting to see that Oasis will get these ex- NH birds, since they are GE- powered, when the ones they have now are PW- powered.

Considerimg their scarcity on the second hand market, Oasis is after anything. Engines are no problem, HAECO fixes everything.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?

Close to zero. They have explicitly stated B773ERs will be their biggest plane for the forseeable future.

[Edited 2007-03-06 12:16:54]


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineQF744ER From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10156 times:

Slightly off topic yet again.

JA401A and JA402A are both flying for ANA in B744D configuration.

Will Air Atlanta return the aircraft to normal B744 specs and put back the winglets on before converting them to freighters?


User currently offlineMrComet From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 520 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10118 times:

How much does a D check cost? How long is the plane out of service? I


The dude abides
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6832 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?

Think of hell and snowballs.  Wink



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10032 times:

Quoting MrComet (Reply 17):
How much does a D check cost? How long is the plane out of service? I

For a 747 this could be weeks, even a full month or more depending on what needs to be replaced and the state of the A/C. A D-check will mean the plane is entirely dismantled and then re-assambled at a MX facility. This is very labour intensive and as such a D-check will costs several million USD, not including actual replacements that have to be done (parts, etc).
On a side note, engines usually have a completely different maintenance cycle and do not follow the C/D check pattern.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12339 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9900 times:

Quoting MrComet (Reply 4):
Those are rather short lives -- only 7 and 8 years in service. The 744 must really be inefficient in todays market.

If that were totally true, they'd be going to the scrapyard or be converted to freighters where their duty cycle is much lower. I think as others have said that this is a case of 'rightsizing' to fit ANA's current needs, and another step towards simplifying their fleet. The fact that the 777 is so efficient makes this an easier decision to make.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9863 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 18):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?

Think of hell and snowballs.

They dont rule out either the 747-8 or A380 here, but I agree it will be in the long term if ever.

http://www.atwonline.com/channels/ai...eFocus/article.html?articleID=1745

Quote:

The long-term fleet plan is built around the 777 and 787. Earlier this year the airline announced the sale of six 747-400s to Avion Aircraft Trading of Iceland and the stated aim is to sell the entire 747-400 fleet. Interestingly, despite this plan, Yamamoto is not ruling out the 747-8 Intercontinental or A380 for international operations: "We'll see what effect the A380 has on our competitiveness." Star partners Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa, along with Qantas, plan to operate the A380 to Narita.


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1446 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9772 times:

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 7):
Because this figure included options/LoIs/commitments. NH obviously has exercised some options or had an existing LoI with Boeing.

JL won't be too pleased then. Their national rival is getting 773's 4-5 years before they're able to.

NH's 773 is the best looking 773 out there if you ask me.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9562 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
NH's Japanese press release doesn't indicate when the 773ERs are due but you are probably right or some may even come in late 2008.

Go to their investor relations part and there's the delivery date specified

Quoting EI321 (Reply 14):
How does this reflect on the possibility of them getting the 747-8i?

Nil. They're never interested in the 747-8 but did hint may get A380 when they feel is necessary.


User currently onlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1553 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8963 times:

Another week, another 4 777s sold. I think its gonna be a banner year for the 777 once again. Jeez, the 777 could be as common place as the 737 at area aiports soon! (ok slight exaggeration)

25 Post contains links BoeingFever777 : Very doubtful... NH has stated for awhile they want to only fly 3 type of a/c in the future. http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...ews&storyid=62460
26 CX747 : As an earlier poster mentioned, it is ANA's philosophy to phase out their 747 fleet in favor of 777s. They are downsizing and no longer want the capac
27 EI321 : I also think its only possible in the long term, but looking at the comments made by Yamamoto in the article I posted, there seems to be a suggestion
28 Ultrapig : I understand this but what I don't get is the buyer has to pay for a D check thus reducing the value of the used airplane. Isn't it like having a car
29 Express1 : I got word in here that ANA are to send in to LHR B773ERs starting 25th May, NH201 on the afternoon flight eta 1555 and the B744 service put back to a
30 SEPilot : Obviously the price of a plane reflects its maintenance status. The question for ANA (or any other airline) is whether they want to pay for the D-che
31 Post contains images DAYflyer : If everyone keeps doing this 777 for 747 swap, we will be seeing a 2 engine powered 747 before too long
32 Carpethead : No exaggeration if you come to HND. Just a Japanese phenomena. Ask LH or EK how many four-holers they have on order.
33 DAYflyer : A valid point.
34 SEPilot : Not just Japanese; how many US carriers have any four-holers on order?
35 CX747 : If one looks at Europe and Oceania though, there are plenty of 4 holers on order. This has more to do with with a smaller capacity aircraft (777-300ER
36 Centrair : I might be digging too deeply but I think it has to deal with product. That same article states that NH wants to become #1 in Asia and maybe the worl
37 CX flyboy : I could do that yes, but then when they go bust I will have no seniority number!
38 LTU932 : Replacing the domestic 744s with 773As seems impossible. AFAIK, the very last 773A was delivered to CX a few months ago, so as far as the 777-300 pro
39 Stitch : Boeing will happily build you a 773A, I imagine. However, the 787-3 probably offers better economics, even with it's lower capacity.
40 Norcal773 : C'mon now, think positively. Competition for your airline is a good thing.
41 DfwRevolution : Stitch is correct, the 777-300A is still on offer from Boeing. That goes for all 777 models.
42 CX flyboy : Sure it is....what I meant was that I get the impression that they are not faring too well and I hae my doubts as to whether this airline can last. C
43 UAEflyer : For how much they will sell the 744? it should be expensive because they are in a very good condition
44 Post contains images EK413 : Truly this has to be the icing on the cake and proves the B747 days are numbered as a PAX variant... Boy I love the T7! R.I.P. B747
45 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Err.... tap the brakes, buddy.
46 APChigoSea : Quoting Ultrapig:I understand this but what I don't get is the buyer has to pay for a D check thus reducing the value of the used airplane. Isn't it l
47 SEPilot : As Mark Twain once said, the rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated... I agree that the main use for the 747 is going to be freight from he
48 Post contains images EK413 : Oops Other than the lovely LH order as a launch carrier for the pax variant B748i I personally believe the program won't receive large orders when Bo
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