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DL Giving Up 9 Gates At BOS  
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9282 times:

Today's Boston Globe reports that Delta is giving up 9 of its 25 gates at Boston. Six of the gates being released can accomodate mainline jets, 3 can accomodate RJs. It hasn't been decided yet which airlines will take over the nine gates from DL.

A link to the article is here:

http://www.boston.com/business/globe...t_lets_logan_reassign_delta_gates/


Seaholm Maples are #1!
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2693 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

I hate to say it, but it's about time. Just too bad that DL couldn't expand and make use of these gates. Any idea who'll get them next?

User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

I am going to guess AirTran if the price is right.

They are scattered all over term. c and two different security areas.



FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 2):
They are scattered all over term. c and two different security areas.

DL is no longer in terminal C at BOS. DL is now in the new A terminal.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9049 times:

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 3):
Quoting Tu154 (Reply 2):
They are scattered all over term. c and two different security areas.

DL is no longer in terminal C at BOS. DL is now in the new A terminal.

I believe that Tu154 was referrring to FL with regards to Terminal C.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineB6WNQX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 3):
DL is no longer in terminal C at BOS. DL is now in the new A terminal.

I believe TU154 was referring to FL being in term C and scattered not DL. FL has said that they are concerned that the rent for space in Term A will be too high for it's low cost business model though.


User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9006 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
I believe that Tu154 was referrring to FL with regards to Terminal C.

Ahh, that makes sense. My bad.  

Anyways, back to the topic. Perhaps another Skyteam member might be interested? Thoughts?

[Edited 2007-03-06 20:47:41]

User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8948 times:

Surely it will be a skyteam member. Maybe NW AND CO?


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8931 times:

It would be smart for Airtran to take some of the Mainline gates as it would allow for NW to shift down a few gates in E(to the Airtran gates(connected to the NW area)) and allow more gate space for international carriers. I heard E during the 5-7PM hour is just about maxed out in terms of gate space.

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8908 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 8):
It would be smart for Airtran to take some of the Mainline gates as it would allow for NW to shift down a few gates in E(to the Airtran gates(connected to the NW area)) and allow more gate space for international carriers. I heard E during the 5-7PM hour is just about maxed out in terms of gate space.

Once upon a time, those 3 gates (1C, 1D & 1E) were NW gates E1C, E1D & E1E.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineRandyWaldron From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 324 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8836 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 8):
It would be smart for Airtran to take some of the Mainline gates

Smart? Why do you think that move would be smart?

AirTran seems to operate just fine in the alleyway/Terminal D. Furthermore, I suspect that Delta would not enjoy having their direct and most fierce competetor operating out of their much-celebrated terminal in Boston.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 8):
it would allow for NW to shift down a few gates in E

That makes some sense. However, due to NWA's simultaneous 757 operations in and out of BOS, it would prove to be a logistical nightmare. Although NWA has used those gates, I suspect that the more logical conclusion is that NWA will move all of their operations, with the exception of the Amsterdam (NW37) arrival, to terminal A.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 8):
I heard E during the 5-7PM hour is just about maxed out in terms of gate space.

You got something right! If you consider the increase in international flying out of BOS this summer, FlyGlobespan to Scotland, Iberia to Spain and the typical increases of the long-established carriers during the summer, NWA's limited domestic operations seem more suited at Terminal A.

Everything in aviation has to do with money, and everything at Massport has to do with who is greasing who's palm and scratching who's back......this development will be interesting.



"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
User currently offlineTu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8775 times:

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 10):
Smart? Why do you think that move would be smart?

AirTran seems to operate just fine in the alleyway/Terminal D. Furthermore, I suspect that Delta would not enjoy having their direct and most fierce competetor operating out of their much-celebrated terminal in Boston.

OOOH never thought of that. What about CO? Operating in those out of the way gates in C. It would free up a gate
for B6 (where CO express operates.?) Hasnt NW said in the past they are going to remain in E?



FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 10):
Smart? Why do you think that move would be smart?

AirTran seems to operate just fine in the alleyway/Terminal D. Furthermore, I suspect that Delta would not enjoy having their direct and most fierce competetor operating out of their much-celebrated terminal in Boston.

According to some A.Netters, the check-in area is too small for the operation they have there. Also the lone security checkpoint can be congested at times. If Airtran were to move to A, massport should just close the checkpoint and covert the area(ticket counter and all) to baggage areas.


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 11):
Hasnt NW said in the past they are going to remain in E?

Thats seems to be the general attitude at NW. They don't want the cost/inconvience to move a plane from E to A.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8674 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 8):
and allow more gate space for international carriers

Why would NW care about that?

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 10):
NWA's limited domestic operations seem more suited at Terminal A.

NW is expanding its int'l ops out of BOS later in the year; which would facilitate greater ease in transit for their own pax to remain in E.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8674 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
Surely it will be a skyteam member. Maybe NW AND CO?

NW is unlikely, as they have a perfect location for their operation, especially with the second AMS flight coming online. CO, however, is much more likely as Massport and jetBlue desperately want to have that side of C be jetBlue's operation, to the point that CapeAir was getting kicked out until they signed the new codeshare with B6. Midwest's limited operation could also move over to A at that point.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8606 times:

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 2):
I am going to guess AirTran if the price is right.

They are scattered all over term. c and two different security areas

AirTran is not spread all over the C Terminal. Their check in is on the lower level with the Baggage claim area and they seem to like it down there as they are the only ones down there. They are in their own world over there and it suites them perfectly. All of their gates are served from ONE security check point. I don't see AirTran moving.



JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8602 times:

The funny thing about this whole deal is that the terminal was conceived before either CO or NW joined Skyteam. The terminal was originally planned as a Skyteam terminal. And I believe there are now 6 or 7 skyteam airlines serving the terminal. The issue is that Massport will not allow customs outside of terminal E, and I think this is causing a lot of the problems in E, because AA also uses the facility for international arrivals. They were supposed to build an FIS facility in terminal B, that they would share with US, but 9-11 came, then Massport said no. If the FIS facility was in A, I think NW would be over there.

This issue is the exact problem I have with airline control of gates and airlines paying for terminals, because you create situations just like this. What happens to Terminal 5 in JFK if B6 falls apart?

Anyways CO moving back to A should be a no brainer. No airline has moved more than them over the years, but they were in A, and were relocated to build the new terminal. Plus them in skyteam, and it makes sense. NW is a different story. A move by them would certainly help the congestion, but I don't know that they would want to move out of the customs terminal and have to tow planes to repo them for the Amsterdam flights. One thing that I could see is that in the A terminal, there are two crown room clubs, and they could be also used as Worldclub or Presidents club rooms as well, much like the shared Worldclub/Presidents club facility that they share in ORD.

Here is what I could see happening.

CO and NW move to A, turning it into the skyteam terminal. B6 takes all the remaining gate space on the 25-36, save for the cape air gates. UA just gained more gate space on the other concourse with the Air Canada departure. YX remains in C, and uses the 40's gates now that they have both MKE and MCI service. FL keeps their existing gates, but the check in counter is moved to E, which would also give them the domestic gates vacated by NW. Their existing gates in the former D are linked with E post security anyways.

The only questions I would have is, this would leave some open counter space in C (With Air Canada having moved, and CO moving.). How is it used? Also, gates B37 and B38 and some counter space remain in B. Can massport use this to attract a new carrier? Or would an airline like Alaska move away from US, and use this space for themselves?


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8553 times:

Quoting Wmupilot (Reply 16):
All of their gates are served from ONE security check point. I don't see AirTran moving.

They also use C11 on the UA concourse

Quoting Apodino (Reply 17):
How is it used? Also, gates B37 and B38 and some counter space remain in B. Can massport use this to attract a new carrier?

YX could also move there, with 2 more MCI flights coming online this may(total of 3) and the 5 daily MKE flights, that brings it to 8 daily flights. Pretty tight fit for one gate, but perfect for two.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8552 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
CO, however, is much more likely as Massport and jetBlue desperately want to have that side of C be jetBlue's operation, to the point that CapeAir was getting kicked out until they signed the new codeshare with B6. Midwest's limited operation could also move over to A at that point.

I don't really see CO moving unless they are forced to do so (or given sufficient incentives); it probably depends on the terms of their lease with Massport. They'd probably sooner take one or two of the gates vacated by AC in the United pier of Terminal C. Midwest could just as easily operate from the former HP gates in Terminal B. And with Mitt Romney no longer the governor, I don't think there will be as much behind-the-scenes pressure for Massport to work with jetBlue.

The problem for AirTran, as mentioned in the Globe article, is that the costs are higher at Terminal A. While they would gain some room for expansion, the drawback is that it's a fairly limited amount of room for expansion. Delta is only giving up six mainline jet gates -- and AirTran already has four where they are.

As others have said, I just don't see any of the current carriers at BOS moving in with Delta -- unless they are forced somehow to do so.


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2614 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8422 times:

This is really old news. We gave up the gates and office space months ago. We were told not to expect any new neighbors in the near term. Massport has already shopped the space to current BOS airlines and non are interested in moving. The problem is the cost. The lease rates for A are too high. The real catch for Massport is they can't lower the rate for just some of the gates. As a side note DL will still be able to use the unleased gates to park overnight aircraft.

User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8344 times:

NW will not move out of Terminal E mostly because they own half of it, and I believe this has been the case for decades including the old E, and this was the reason for NW not to move out when the new E opened in 2003. I could be wrong but I think that what ended up being the old Terminal E had been NW's terminal (from probably the times when NW started flying first to Boston) and when they officially launched Terminal E, NW kept half of it as they were the original owners. Can Massport make an offer to NW to incetivize them to move out of E,which NW cannot refuse? Probably but who knows?

As to which airline can move in - probably new entrants. I know that when Frontier pulled out of Boston it was because UA charged them a lot of money but this would be really be only one flight. Alaska may also want to move out of the US area but still that is not much.

So it has to be AirTran, CO or B6 - care to make it interesting?  Smile


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8233 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 21):
I could be wrong but I think that what ended up being the old Terminal E had been NW's terminal (from probably the times when NW started flying first to Boston) and when they officially launched Terminal E, NW kept half of it as they were the original owners.

The "old" Terminal E is the same as the "new" Terminal E -- they just added some space where the access road used to be and moved the check-in counters upstairs. The gate areas are pretty much the same as they were before. There's no good reason from NWA's perspective to move to Terminal A -- the potential connections to Delta are far more limited than the connections to their own AMS service and the KL/AF/AZ departures from Terminal E.

My dark horse candidate for who might take the now-unleased gates in Terminal A would be Southwest.


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8207 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 22):
The "old" Terminal E is the same as the "new" Terminal E -- they just added some space where the access road used to be and moved the check-in counters upstairs.

I am very well aware of that - I used to work at Terminal E at the time of the renovation. I used the old and the new distinction to refer to the renovation "event", which doubled the size of the structure without adding new gates as you point out.


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 8197 times:

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 10):
AirTran seems to operate just fine in the alleyway/Terminal D. Furthermore, I suspect that Delta would not enjoy having their direct and most fierce competetor operating out of their much-celebrated terminal in Boston.

I bet Joe Leonard has already negotiated and signed the lease with the BOS port authority. From the moment DL vacated those gates he was  drool  all over himself at the thought of space in BOS.



One Nation Under God
25 FA4B6 : I doubt it would be B6. My bet would be FL or CO. Hmmm, now THAT would be interesting. If that were to materialize, would the gentlemen's agreement b
26 HighFlyer9790 : that would certainly be surprising! i doubt it though as WN serves PVD and MHT so i think BOS is unlikely..
27 N1120A : Not all Which I believe they sublease from United Those gates are leased by United, which is why AC has been there while United was their handling ai
28 Mikey711MN : Similar logic could certainly be applied to WN avoiding SFO (since they already flank the Bay Area with OAK and SJC), but alas, they've chosen to re-
29 WMUPilot : It is my understanding that CO and YX are being forced out of our side of the C Terminal. I'm not sure if that is still the case of a time frame but p
30 Umichcub : i bet... CO moves over to join DL and everything else stays, minus the UA expansion by one former AC gate, and jetblue expands to match ther overcapac
31 Post contains images AvConsultant : I say it will be FL. FL is predictable with they have the opportunity to . They were vocal in the wanting to those gates when DL was looking for reli
32 Evan767 : WHY would Delta sell these gates to their ultimate competitior Airtran??? Terminal A is a very nice facility and they aren't letting their arch nemesi
33 N801NW : It is no longer Delta's decision to make. The gates have reverted to Massport control. DL is now off the hook for $10 million a year in rent and main
34 ScottB : Except AirTran has publicly stated that renting space in Terminal A would be too costly. True, but with United at around 35 daily departures from BOS
35 Post contains images HighFlyer9790 : these are now massport controlled and rules anyway. DL has no say in what airline goes in those gates.
36 ADiZzy : I would be awesome if B6 could take them over. I would love Delta to have to give up the entire satalite portion of terminal A and turn that into its
37 AviationAddict : I don't really see CO moving. Right now they're right next to their primary regional feeder airline in Cape Air and manage to get a little free help f
38 SWAFA27 : I'd like to see WN snatch up these gates, great new city to open up!!
39 AviationAddict : I wouldn't count on it. The rent is way too high, especially when WN already flies into PVD and Manchester.
40 SWAFA27 : T'would be a nice thought though!
41 AviationAddict : I have to agree, it'd be wonderful for WN, Logan and for the city/region! Add a little flair to a somewhat boring airport! But, unfortunately, I don'
42 SWAFA27 : Yeah bud, we started service there awhile ago, dont know the exact date, but yeah we've been there for a couple months.
43 ADiZzy : Logan is not boring! It is an awesome airport!
44 VS11 : Not a silly idea at all. If anything, of all American carriers, it makes sense for NW to launch services to Europe from BOS because they operate at t
45 AviationAddict : Well, I just started working there this week at Cape Air, and you're very right, it's not boring. I guess what I meant was more in terms of compared
46 Airbazar : I wouldn't be so sure. I think we'll see either CO and/or FL at terminal A sooner or later. It all boils down to money. Yes, leases are too high for
47 WorldTraveler : this is a typical thread from a bunch of a.netters wanting to see change, regardless of whether it is realistic or not. DL won by being able to reduce
48 VS11 : CO indeed looks more like a natural choice to me. They are bigger and I would assume have the clout to negotiate with Massport. Also, in view of the C
49 Easyfriday2000 : I was actually told from a pretty reliable source it will be co. But who knows till movin day
50 Zrs70 : Is DL closing a CRC as well?
51 Post contains links and images TinPusher007 : So if Massport ever lets DL have the FIS in terminal A like they wanted and DL wants to grow again in BOS, how will they accomplish that with a compet
52 DAL767400ER : Probably leasing back a few gates, considering that is highly unlikely anyone moving would actually need all 9 gates. Not actually. As the OP said, 6
53 PHLBOS : Let's not forget that FL already flies BOS-MDW, BOS-BWI, BOS-PHL, BOS-FLL, & BOS-MCO; routes that WN will likely compete with should they did come to
54 Bobnwa : Totally wrong, NWA started in Boston at the old Terminal A,about 1971, where it shared with EA. They then moved to Terminal B where they operated dom
55 RobertS975 : Where do these ideas about airlines "getting closer" because they both have arrangements with CapeAir? For those who don't know, CapeAir flies 10 sea
56 DALMD88 : The gates we gave up are A18-A22 and I think A8 on the otherside. Plus 3 RJ positons. Big Sky will be using A1. That was originally intended for the
57 Post contains images DAL767400ER : I see, thanks for the info .
58 BosWashSprStar : I'm curious why people are so sure that B6 would not take these gates--I've heard they're pretty tight on gate space in BOS these days, and yet it cle
59 ScottB : I've wondered why Delta Shuttle wasn't on A5 & A6 (or A7 & A8) since those are the gates which are most convenient to the security checkpoint. I figu
60 Barney Captain : You just might be surprised. IAD, SFO, DEN......hmmmm. Parker has already stated that he was poised to take over the Shuttle routes if the UsAir - De
61 SWAFA27 : Parker?? You mean Kelly right?
62 DALMD88 : I'm pretty sure because we were told Massport has already approached ALL existing airlines at BOS about leasing the gates we have given up. All of th
63 Airbazar : If I remember correctly AZ used to operate from there, and now FL operates from there. So there is space. What is sorely lacking is an airside concou
64 Apodino : First of all AZ only used space in D for their ticket counter. The actual flights used what is now one of the United Gates. (At the time it was a TWA
65 AviationAddict : Well, this is one subject that I'll gladly be wrong in.
66 Walter747 : Yea comung back from AUA we had to park on a remote stand as all the gates were occupied.
67 Airbazar : Laws of real estate apply here. Location, location, location. Terminal A is the closest terminal in and out of Logan. It's brand new and more spaciou
68 VS11 : The fact that you hate Logan does not mean that Massport has wasted money on Logan. First, 14-32 is meant to be used only in certain weather conditio
69 ScottB : It takes 15 minutes to get to Terminal A (actually, 18 in the schedule) from South Station on the Silver Lie. If you want to get to Terminal E, it's
70 DALMD88 : I agree about the people mover system. There is a ton of bus traffic looping around that could have been elimnated with a quite, low emission people m
71 Post contains images Airbazar : Unless you're taking a cab which will take you exactly 8 minutes from Terminal A to S.Station (or vicevers), if your cabbie knows what he's doing On
72 VS11 : It depends on the time of the day. Even if it is 30 min - that is quite convenient. Which similar airport is in the same position - LGA, EWR, JFK, SE
73 ScottB : Actually...MDW is only 30 minutes from the Loop on the CTA Orange Line -- and it's a real train. Baltimore's light rail stops at the terminal and get
74 Post contains images Airbazar : You can't possibly blame Massport for that. They tried all they could to get a true runway but the NIMBY movement was just too strong. I agree on the
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