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AS Ends Partnership With Hawaiian...  
User currently offlineASMVPGOLD From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 52 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

I suppose this helps clear the way for AS to Hawaii...

"Hawaiian Airlines Partnership Ending: Effective April 30, 2007, our Mileage Plan partnership with Hawaiian Airlines will be ending. Customers will be able to redeem awards on Hawaiian Airlines until April 30, 2007, and they will be valid for travel from one year from date of issue. Tickets purchased by April 30, 2007, on Hawaiian Airlines will also be eligible for mileage credit one year."


721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,741/2/3/4,752/3,762/3/4,772,DC9/30/50/80/90,DC10,MD11,L1011,F100,319,320,332,CRJ,ERJ,DH8/2/4
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

Only mention FFP partnership ends but didn't say about the codeshare.

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Could this be the precursor of AS service to the Islands?

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4200 times:

Wow, with HA announcing 21 weekly flights SEA-Hawaii, UA operating SEA-HNL on Saturdays, plus NW with 753s on the SEA-HNL flights, I wonder if there is much more room for expansion in this sector. Unless AS plans on going from PDX (which already has HA service) or ANC (which has range issues), I don't see how this would be profitable. Again, it could be argued that an additional daily 73G isn't going to hurt anybody in a sector with 700-900 seats daily. We shall see.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4168 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
Only mention FFP partnership ends but didn't say about the codeshare.

If the FF membership is ending, the codeshare will almost certainly end as well.

Quoting Mason (Reply 3):
ANC (which has range issues),

ANC-HNL has no range issues with the 73W



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

No range issues? Fair enough. What about ETOPS cert? I thought this was still unofficial. Besides, if AS wanted to operate ANC-HNL, why would they cancel their deal with HA? This doesn't add up.

User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3503 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4087 times:

Quoting Mason (Reply 3):
Unless AS plans on going from PDX (which already has HA service) or ANC (which has range issues), I don't see how this would be profitable.

One word: loyalty. AS would pull a lot of SEA pax who fly with them elsewhere from the HA, NW and UA flights if they started service to the islands. SEA is Alaska's largest market by far, I really don't see any reason why Hawaii wouldn't work for them. If anything, it will force NW and HA to cut frequencies.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3654 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4077 times:
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Because HA does not codeshare or FFP partnership on any Hawaii-Mainland flights if the other airline has Hawaii-Mainland flights. They will codeshare/FFP partnership on interisland routes only.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Quoting Mason (Reply 5):
What about ETOPS cert?

I believe their -800s are already ETOPS certified, the -700s maybe as well. Even if they are not yet, this makes it easier to do so.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4042 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 6):
One word: loyalty. AS would pull a lot of SEA pax who fly with them elsewhere from the HA, NW and UA flights if they started service to the islands. SEA is Alaska's largest market by far, I really don't see any reason why Hawaii wouldn't work for them. If anything, it will force NW and HA to cut frequencies.

Right...AS's customer loyalty is not to be underestimated in both ANC and SEA. They have to stay competetive, but they can pull from a pretty big pool of people who'd like to keep their money with AS. Problem there of course is that people will be looking to cash in their miles on this route.

As for range, SEA-HNL is almost exactly the same stage length as SEA-MIA, which AS operates with the 739's...though I imagine that is with a bit of a payload penalty. ANC-HNL would require something with more legs though. And of course the unresolved ETOPS issue...



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 9):
One word: loyalty. AS would pull a lot of SEA pax who fly with them elsewhere from the HA, NW and UA flights if they started service to the islands. SEA is Alaska's largest market by far, I really don't see any reason why Hawaii wouldn't work for them. If anything, it will force NW and HA to cut frequencies.

I'm pretty sure UA has a pretty loyal FF base in the SEA area too. Not sure about NW though...


User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
believe their -800s are already ETOPS certified

Not yet...there is training/proving going on, but no certification/approval from the FAA yet.
Also, it is a very limited number of -800s that are ETOPS equipped.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1878 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

What does HA do right now from SEA-Hawaii? 2HNL and one OGG, or one HNL, KOA, OGG?

User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 10):
I'm pretty sure UA has a pretty loyal FF base in the SEA area too. Not sure about NW though...

SEA is one of NW's top FF bases outside of its hubs. Same goes for UA.

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 12):
What does HA do right now from SEA-Hawaii? 2HNL and one OGG, or one HNL, KOA, OGG?

This summer it will be 2x daily to HNL and 1x daily to OGG. HA does not fly KOA-SEA.


User currently offlineEVA777SEA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 13):
SEA is one of NW's top FF bases outside of its hubs. Same goes for UA.

That's what I thought, thanks for clarifying. If this is the case then if AS started service, it would probably not affect NW all that much.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Quoting Mason (Reply 3):
...PDX (which already has HA service)...

and NW, daily...
If (when) AS starts to HNL, I will be curious to see if it's 1x or 2x daily, and if it will in fact have an effect on HA or NW frequencies.

Quoting Mason (Reply 5):
Besides, if AS wanted to operate ANC-HNL, why would they cancel their deal with HA?

Because they will also fly from SEA; I wouldn't see them flying to HNL only from ANC. Even if there is already enough capacity to the Islands from SEA and PDX, I can't imagine them not serving both of those routes from at least HNL. Who knows, if AS gets to like Hawaii, and has enough equipment, they could eventually start SJC, SMF, ONT and SAN routes as well, all cities they already serve which currently have only one carrier to HNL (in most cases, HA...) stirthepot 

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 10):
I'm pretty sure UA has a pretty loyal FF base in the SEA area too. Not sure about NW though...

I think NW is still pretty popular in the SEA area, partially due to the past history of SEA on the NW route map.

bb


User currently offlineAirlinebrat From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

I would love to fly AS from ACV to Hawaii but AS/QX fails to time flights for us to connect to much of anything except for Mexico, PDX, SEA, ANC and the dreaded redeye to the East Coast. If you don't care about a 5 hour layover in SEA or PDX there are a few more cities you can add to the list....... Perhaps a few flights on AA or DL but that is it......


I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
User currently offlineHA767 From Samoa, joined Mar 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Alaska's code share discontiuation will have little effect on Hawaiian's SEA and PDX loads. Most of Hawaiian's traffic is local in these cities and have been loyal for years.

Hawaiian Flt 27/28 (2nd daily flight) will go to 7 days a week starting June 22nd and will be permanent (used to be seasonal). Add that to the daily OGG (Maui), will give SEA 3 daily departures. PDX has 2 daily departures to HNL and OGG.

As for Alaska's Hawaii service?? Etops cert still not final and aircraft 737-700/800 will have serious weight restrictions during winter months (strong headwinds) making it unprofitable. I suspect they will wait until the -900ER becomes avialiable.
ANC service has been done with the -700 (Aloha) whom only lasted about 6 months (Hawaiian Vacations) Had issues with passenger luggage being bumped because of wieght issues.

Stay tuned


User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3673 times:

I've been flying SEA-HNL about every 6 weeks over the last year, usually on the NW 757's. They have been flying virturally full each flight (1-2 seats top being open) . Although I like NW, I would prefer to go on AS but price and schedule still win. NW's times are quite good on their flights.

User currently offlineRyDawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 858 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 2):
Could this be the precursor of AS service to the Islands?



Quoting Ha763 (Reply 7):
Because HA does not codeshare or FFP partnership on any Hawaii-Mainland flights if the other airline has Hawaii-Mainland flights. They will codeshare/FFP partnership on interisland routes only.

AS going to HI has to be one of the oldest rumors around; however, if it is HA's policy not to codeshare with an airline who serves the same market (Mainland-Hawaii), than that adds a little more room for speculation. I could only guess that if this is indeed the reason, it should become clear very soon.

-R



You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3645 times:

AS has an extensive route structure (and add the QX factor), which could feed pax from around the country to Hawai‘i.

That has been a big question, whether the HA/AS partnership would continue when AS begins flights here. I guess we now know the answer.



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineQXRamperMEII From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 93 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3607 times:

There's been so many AS to Hawai'i rumors floating around lately...every little piece adds some fuel to the speculation.
There was a huge rumor started because AS was / is trying to get some of thier aircraft ETOPS certified...I'm only a lowly QX ramper...my understanding of the "Big Picture" of AS / QX is limited.

My understanding about the ETOPS certs is that it is to allow AS to fly thier Mexico routes more directly (ie over the Gulf of Mexico, and the Pacific), vice having to follow the dogleg around...I know a pilot for AS who was one of the ones chosen to do the demos for the FAA; that's where I got this info...

Another rumor with some teeth to it is an idea that AS might aquire Aloha Airlines, taking over thier routes from the mainland, and using a QX hub in Hawai'i to do the inter-island stuff. I would certainly sign up to ramp in HNL for a while, but the idea sounds pretty far out there to me...

More speculation, that if AS did in fact start service from the mainland to Hawai'i, it wouldn't be from PDX or SEA to begin with. I imagine it would be due to the saturation of these markets already. I've heard ANC-HNL considered, as well as some stranger city pairs... SJC-HNL, SMF-HNL, SNA-HNL, YVR-HNL. I think AS might be on to something with the idea of a YVR-HNL service...who else does this route?


User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3654 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3589 times:
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Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 19):
adds a little more room for speculation.

Usually, cancellaation of the FFP partnership agreements comes only after service is announced/started. I've also heard rumors of AS not being satisfied with the codeshare/FFP partnership with HA. It's not like HA was the only one AS partnered up with to Hawaii. They still have agreements with CO, NW, DL, and AA.

Quoting QXRamperMEII (Reply 21):
YVR-HNL service...who else does this route?

Air Canada, Harmony, Air Pacific (soon to be discontinued)


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5400 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3558 times:

Quoting QXRamperMEII (Reply 21):
some stranger city pairs... SJC-HNL, SMF-HNL, SNA-HNL, YVR-HNL. I think AS might be on to something with the idea of a YVR-HNL service

And, as I listed earlier, SAN-HNL has also been mentioned...

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 22):
YVR-HNL -- Air Canada, Harmony, Air Pacific (soon to be discontinued)

Aloha ran it for a year or so relatively recently as well.

I would sure love to see an American carrier in the market but, if given the choice, I'd much rather see SAN to the Islands by Alaska. SAN expansion rumors by AS have been fueled by their acquisition of an additional gate at Lindbergh Field earlier this year... [stirthepot]

bb


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26414 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 13):
Same goes for UA.

Their Microsoft contract may have a little something to do with that.  Wink



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Post contains images Lemurs : Microsoft has no direct contract with UA that I know of. We use AmEx travel services, so there may be a negotiated fare rate, but if it's not on the
26 RoseFlyer : That's a big concern for other airlines, however AS already has a ton of flights to warm sunny places that are used for cashing in miles. Hawaii won'
27 Post contains images Lemurs : Except for the passport requirement. That's always the thing with HI routes. All the benefits of exotic tropical vacation travel, very few of the has
28 CirrusDriver : Man, where have I been? I work for UA and haven't heard this one! That is great! When does it start and what type of equipment?
29 Bicoastal : United SAN-HNL and SEA-HNL have been operating since last June....Saturdays only using 757s. It would be great to see these flights go daily but UA n
30 ASMVPGOLD : United use to be one of our main prefered carrier a few years ago... that is no longer the case. CO, AA, AS, NW, DL and UA are all listed and we use
31 N174UA : Yep. Lot of people here with an AS credit card, and as long as Menzies stays out of the media, AS will do well. If AS starts flights to HNL, OGG and
32 Bicoastal : UA is still quite strong to Hawaii from the west coast....SFO and LAX...... and will be even if they end up dropping Saturday only service from SEA a
33 ORD2PHL : Sounds about right, UA serves OGG, KOA, HNL, and LIH all from the US mainland. Somebody can correct this if I'm wrong but I know they are on the foll
34 HAL : Actually with a 737 both ANC-HNL and SEA-HNL are problematic. It's not just a matter of range - ETOPS rules require more fuel onboard in case there's
35 HA767 : Hawaiians Service from the mainland LAX-HNL 3 flights daily starting June 22nd SAN-HNL daily SAN-OGG daily starting Mar 14th PHX-HNL daily LAS-HNL dai
36 Eskimo1 : I agree that service to the islands may turn out to be a ff money pit. I think that there are other destinations in the lower 48 that are more worthy
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