SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1086 posts, RR: 6 Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 35193 times:
MSNBC is reporting an Indonesian airliner has crashed on landing. Anyone know anything?
Thetuna From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 140 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 35288 times:
JAKARTA (AFP) - A passenger jet burst into flames on landing in the central Indonesian city of Yogyakarta on Wednesday, witnesses told local radio.
ADVERTISEMENT
"The plane is burnt. The fire came suddenly from the front wheel," one witness, Hariman, told ElShinta radio.
There was no immediate mention of casualties, and the number of passengers aboard the jet was not immediately known.
The Detikcom news website said the plane was a jet from the country's flag carrier Garuda Indonesia.
Another passenger who escaped the blaze told ElShinta radio there were still passengers aboard as the fire raged.
Fair use
He just ate the big one! Hog!...get away from that thing!! Just get away from it!
SeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1086 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 35247 times:
From AP:
JAKARTA, Indonesia - A commercial jetliner caught fire as it landed at an airport on Indonesia's Java island on Wednesday, state news agency Antara reported.
The report said some passengers were believed to be still on board the jet, operated by national carrier Garuda. There was no immediate word on how many people were trapped.
The incident happened at Yogyakarta airport in central Java, the agency reported, giving no more details.
Authorities were not immediately available for comment.
QF108 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 35230 times:
It was apparently also carrying Australian Journalists and Embassy Staff, this link is pretty much the same as Thetuna posted but with the addition of the Australian Casualties.
Some passengers escaped the burning aircraft but more were trapped inside. Witnesses say only the tail fin was left undamaged.
"The plane is burnt. The fire came suddenly from the front wheel,'' one witness, Hariman, said on ElShinta radio.
One passenger who survived told local TV station RCTI TV that "before landing I felt the plane shake strongly''.
"We overshot the runway, then I heard the sound of an explosion and ran through an emergency exit,'' continued passenger Muhammad Dimyati.
"I believe many passengers remained trapped on board.''
The exact number of passengers aboard the jet was not immediately known. Local radio says 15 were killed and officials have confirmed ten dead - although it is feared the body count will rise.
It had left Jakarta at 6am local time for Yogjakarta, in the central province of Java.
Most of those on board were diplomatic staff from both Canberra and Jakarta, who were part of a trip following Foreign Minister Alexander Downer on his mission to Indonesia.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1134 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34965 times:
The last one year has not been good for Indonesian aviation at all. As a matter of fact, not aviation only, too much happening in this poor country.
Jetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 1065 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34908 times:
Operations director of national carrier Garuda Capt. Ari Sapari said authorities were trying to rescue passengers onboard the Boeing 737-400. The number of people on board was not known
FD728 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 101 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34799 times:
A little off topic, but what has caused the AdamAir flight to crash? Are there any clues yet?
Certainly a bad year already for Indonesian aviation, but not necessarily has to be blamed on human error. The weather factor always plays a major role in Indonesia.
Osiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3134 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34744 times:
RIP to those who may have died. Thoughts and well wishes for those who survived. And for those responsible for the mess in that country... Let's just say I hope they get what they deserve.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
Asuflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34697 times:
Prayers out to families of killed, another sad day in the history of Indonesian avaition.
JAKARTA (Reuters) - A jet from Indonesia's state carrier Garuda crashed and burst into flames on landing at Yogyakarta airport on Wednesday morning, an airline spokesman said.
He gave no other details, but the Indonesia state news agency Antara said the plane crashed and exploded at 0700 (0000 GMT) and passengers were trapped inside the burning fuselage.
The make and type of the aircraft was not immediately available, but Antara said the flight number was GA-200.
Indonesia has suffered from a string of transport accidents in recent months, including an Adam Air plane that disappeared in January with 102 passengers and crew on board, and a ferry sinking in late December in which hundreds died.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4708 posts, RR: 60 Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34702 times:
That fuselage is gutted by fire. Initial reports said aircraft approach was "wobbly", landed and then overran and then caught fire. Another write off in 2007... Weather reported calm. Seeking METARs now.
The shocking news is that, it's Garuda!
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Asuflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34636 times:
Acoording to Al-Jazeera passengers were trapped inside.
CX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 5636 posts, RR: 58 Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34640 times:
I really hope that this is the kick up the bum needed for the government to really leap into action and do something about the pilots, airlines, maintenance etc... Sadly though, I have my doubts.
AndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2426 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34582 times:
One passenger who survived told local TV station RCTI TV that "before landing I felt the plane shake strongly."
"We overshot the runway, then I heard the sound of an explosion and ran through an emergency exit," continued passenger Muhammad Dimyati. "I believe many passengers remained trapped on board."
At least some got out... still nothing on CNN here in the US about it yet.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 3922 posts, RR: 76 Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34591 times:
I will unfortunately not be able to participate a lot given the current chaos here in the office. Just tuning in to contribute that plenty of people have made it out of the aircraft in time. 133 people on board of this full aircraft GA200 CGK JOG, the busy Garuda morning departure, which I have taken on my occasions myself. Aircraft registration is PK-GZC (B734).
Jetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 1065 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 34518 times:
"It is true that a plane caught fire while landing. It happened when it OVERSHOT THE RUNWAY and burst into flames," Yogyakarta provincial secretary Bambang Susanto told Reuters through texted messages.
This is a terrible accident. Wondering if the runway was wet and the weather at time
RIP
25 Asuflyer: Indonesia jet crashes on landing A passenger plane belonging to the Indonesian state airline, Garuda, has burst into flames on landing in the city of
26 Mandala499: A pax from row 6 reported he exited through rear door... Hmm... doesn't look good about the front.... *sigh* Reported landing 09, overran... whether t
27 VV701: BBC is now saying one passenger walked from the burning aircraft but that 'dozens odf injured passengers' have been taken to hospital. Let's hope it's
28 Asuflyer: First photo: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...2649000/jpg/_42649589_plane203.jpg[Edited 2007-03-07 02:37:10]
29 KL808: I love it when CNN reports "A Boeing 757 airliner burst into flame on landing at Yogyakarta..." Hahahaa.. RIP to those who perished. Drew
30 HB-IWC: The information we are getting here in the OCC is that more than half of the passengers made it out of the burning fuselage.
31 Richierich: Very sad story, yet again. At least this time the Indonesian government will have no trouble finding the wreckage.
32 Palladium: how come CNN reported it's a Boeing 757?
33 Laxintl: Any clue on the registration? I wonder what the age of the aircraft is, and how the minister of transportation will respond now? Ban all Boeing planes
34 Sanjet: Just got an email from CNN: "A Boeing 757 airliner burst into flames on landing at Yogyakarta airport in Indonesian, witnesses say." Garuda Indonesia
35 KL808: PK-GZC ... seems this plane is more than 10 years old Drew
36 Osiris30: @paladium: Because CNN as a news organization is about the worst going these days. They would rather report on celebrity crotch shot than factual news
37 Jetfuel: another pic here http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/as...ut/t1.2030.indonesia.crash.cnn.jpg
38 Asuflyer: Acoording to AP at least 8 people have perished.
39 Sanjet: I wonder with the earthquake yesterday, were the runways in good condition? Where is the indonesian website where I can find metars / notams...?
40 Palladium: I always under the impression that is not the aircraft itself that caused the accident but often many crash in Indonesia is caused by the inexperience
41 JewPilot: OK, I'm confused. CNN says it was a Garuda 757, but, there are no pics of a 757 in Garuda in the picture database. And, there are only 9 pics of 757's
42 MEACEDAR: I just got the email from CNN, and according to them it was a 757 not a 737. This is what the email contained. .. -- A Boeing 757 airliner burst into
43 Osiris30: @palladium: I think if you talk to some folks on here involved with the aviation industry in your country you will find the pilots are blamed for many
44 ThaiA345: Guys, sad news indeed, local news are saying it was a landing incident whereby the aircraft overran the runway, scary thing was I was on this very sam
45 Cloudyapple: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=0...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE= Except the crash was only 736Nm away from the earthquake or 1363km.[Edited
46 Jasond: Lets wait until we hear exactly what happened. Too early to jump to conclusions just yet.
47 Zeke: Any luck with the METAR/TAF/ATIS I cannot seem to get a current one.
48 Cloudyapple: Every media organization on earth correctly reports it being a B737 except CNN. Garuda has never had B757s.
49 ContinentalAUS: Sad news, but i still hope for survivors. It had to be a Garuda 737. I'll be in prayer for the victim's families.
51 Mandala499: as I haven't seen the cockpit in the footage... it is reported the cockpit had 2 dead bodies still in the sitting position! *sad* But a friend called
52 AirplaneFan: This is really sad. What the hell is going on in Indonesia with all the 737s?
53 Fanofjets: Very sad news indeed. My thoughts are with the families of the victims of the plane crash and the earthquake. I hope for some good news for Indonesia.
54 TK787: It must be a strange feeling to know that. Very sad news indeed, I offer my sincere condolences to the friends and families of the victims.
55 StealthZ: CNN even atribute their online story to AP who correctly say 737-400 yet that seems to have slipped past CNN Likely some wet behind the ears cadet jo
56 Osiris30: I'm not jumping to conclusions. The maintenance problems with Indonesian aviation have been well documented on these very foums. Even if this was not
57 Jasond: No doubt given recent events but I'd rather not these forums get political until they need to. There is a lot of conflicting aspects of accounts so f
58 Jetfuel: and that very corruption has a direct impact on poor pilot training. (that doesn't mean I am saying poor pilots). A lack of outside high standard tra
59 UK_Dispatcher: Sadly, you have just given the Indonesian authorities their answer to the crash. That idiot who proposed to ban all decade old aircraft will be sayin
60 Osiris30: Again my point was unrelated to this specific accident. Agreed it's too early to tell. Also agreed. Irrespective of the cause of this accident, there
61 6thfreedom: Australian diplomats and jounalists accompanying Australian foreign Minister Alexander Downer also reported dead.. Australians onboard crashed plane F
62 Aussie_: From news.com.au - looks like many Australians on board Australians trapped in fire-gutted jetlinerFrom correspondents in Jakarta March 07, 2007 01:20
63 Kretek: Apparently there were a number of Australian journalists and staff from Australia's foreign mission as well as high profile Din Syamsuddin (head of Mu
64 Amritpal: thoughts and prayers for the gone. hope there r many survivors
65 198467: //Yogykarta Airport officials who did not want to be named said the jetliner caught fire three minutes before landing.// Did it catch fire before it t
66 Ryanair!!!: Bear in mind that this is Garuda that we are talking about. While GA has had it's fair share of skirmishes in its lifetime, it is one of the more wel
67 LTU932: Yes, but does he really ignore the possibility that this could have happened to a brandspanking new, yet badly flown or maintained aircraft? Whoever
69 Jamie757: Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. I can't help thinking that this may be a bonafide accident though, perhaps not related to neglect and corruption.
70 AviationAddict: It's unfortunate, but sometimes accidents are necessary for change to occur. I wish there were a better way to wake-up the Indonesian government and a
71 ZKNZA: Another avoidable accident in the banana republic, dont expect anything to change though.As usual no one will accept responsibility.
72 NAV20: Our radio just reported Indons have said that 76 people are un-accounted for, including 'several Australians.' PS, correction - 76 people 'evacuated t
73 YVRLTN: PK-GZC 737 497 C/N 25664/2393 ex N664AL - leased from GECAS, built 1992, acquired by GA Oct 2002 - looks like an ex AS bird. 136 seats - 120Y / 16C
74 Lostmoon744: Here to hoping something good, if any, comes out of this crash. God bless all affected.
75 GFFgold: Latest local news puts casualty figure closer to 20 known fatalities but these figures are notoriously unreliable. Sounds like nosewheel on fire, tyre
76 Mandala499: 96 accounted for as survived, rest unknown. 133 souls on board... IIRC. Crew names available. I got 1 pax on that flight, she survived OK, our office
78 WorkFlyer: Reports on NZ radio say that smoke was seen coming from the pane before landing. From the fuselage, not the engines. Another twist to this tale.
79 Flybyguy: I never really understood this forum's macabre obsession with plane crashes and the pouring of impromtu sympathies for victims that most wouldn't give
80 NAV20: Total dead so far put at 49 Eye-witness accounts say:- 1. Fire originated with the nosewheel. 2. Aircraft veered off runway and stopped when it hit th
81 Electech6299: Condolences to all family and friends of the pax and crew of GA200. May the departed rest in peace. May the survivors find peace and rest. Good news!
82 OPNLguy: Now they're saying it was a 737-200.... http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...y/0,22049,21340110-5001021,00.html It'll be a DC-9 next hour...
83 Jetfuel: Seriously, there's nothing "macarbe" about it. The fact is as pilots/aviation people we have a vested interest in accidents. It's where most of the s
84 Electech6299: It comes from the recognition that many on this forum may well know people involved in the incident, and from the larger recognition that tragedy tou
85 Mandala499: Electech, Bad news, I was just told that we've been misinformed, pax still missing... we're tracing! Mandala499
86 NAV20: All any of us want is to find out the facts as soon as possible. This is the best place to do that. Our Prime Minister now giving live news conferenc
87 WorkFlyer: The article says it was flight GA200 but goes onto say it was a 737-400. I think this is one media outlet that got it right.
88 Curmudgeon: The pictures of the accident clearly show a 737 with four overwing exits, so it's not a -200 or -300. The reports of smoke coming from the forward fus
89 Typhaerion: My thoughts and prayers are with you, I hope you find the person you were looking for and that all is well with them. This is another sad day in avia
90 QatarA340: May they all rest in peace. I just have a quesiton. Is this the first 737-400 crash?
91 QatarA340: Actually, the plane that crashed is believed to be PK-GZC, which is leased from GECAS since 07/10/2002. Its first commercial flight was 13/11/1992 wit
92 Electech6299: Sad to hear- but still hope. I'll add her intentions to my prayer. Surely you and your office didn't come out unscathed...may you all find peace this
93 KL808: No, a BD 734 crashed in the UK in the late 80's or early 90's, due to pilot error because of reading the instruments incorectly. They shut down the w
94 OPNLguy: USAir (then) wrote one off after it went off the end of 31 at LGA back in the 1990s. I'm sure there have probably been a few others...not to mention
95 Electech6299: 9 others on record: edit: 8 crashes, 1 ground fire, for 9 frames lost. final edit: I wonder if this could be similar circumstances to the KLM- Barcel
96 Jetfuel: Fair use excerpts from http://www.news.com.au/breakingnews/ "I was sleeping then the plane slammed twice and I heard people screaming,"......... At le
97 NAV20: Indonesian authorities are also reported as saying that the aircraft 'overshot the runway.' All pretty consistent with the pilot getting the height o
98 PanAm_DC10: The following is a link to the ABC (Australia) News Coverage. http://www.abc.net.au/news/ For further details of Australians who were onboard, or to c
99 Jetfuel: Garuda has some 18 accidents on their record with the previous two fatal accidents as follows 09.26.1997 Garuda Indonesia Airbus A300B4-220 Medan, Ind
100 Beaucaire: Indonesia ranks on position 135 with "Transparency International" ,listing the most corrupt countries in the world. Out of 165 countries listed - last
101 Mandala499: The team in JOG from IndoFlyer, Indonesia's aviation forum, have sent in their pics. You can find the pics at: http://www.indoflyer.net/indoforum/tm.a
102 Jasond: Not necessarily, you might also consider wind shear, micro-burst, down draft etc. Seems the aircraft 'shook' before landing before landing hard. I'm
103 ZKNBX: We hope so. Early days for you to make this assumption. Could be a bird strike on the front of the a/c. Could be an electrical fault. Could be sabota
104 GFFgold: Something that has been highlighted in recent accidents in Indonesia is poor identity checks of passengers on domestic routes, resulting in much confu
105 Cchan: A bit off-topic: why are there so many B737 crashes in recent years? The B737 is the most numerous aircraft in the world, but still there are many tim
106 Jetfuel: Just saw TV news footage from a cameraman on board the aircraft and the engine(s) could be still heard spooling long after the impact
107 XT6Wagon: I have to disagree here, posts above have quotes saying that the plane was on fire shortly before "landing" Its certainly alot harder to concentrate
108 Kiwiandrew: one possible cause ( among many ) is that the relatively low acquisition cost of older , yet still relatively efficient , -300 , -400 models means th
109 Pilotaydin: RIP to those lost.... i just watched the cnn clip and im serioulsy sad that something like this happened... being a 737 piloy myself i feel a deeper s
110 Emrecan: Very sad news RIP of those who has lost their lives.. I wish quick recovery for the injuries.. May God be with them
111 Anax: RIP to the lost. indonesian aviation mourns again
112 Cainanuk: I truly think that IATA should step in here if there is anything they CAN do. It seems that Indonesia is really a crapshoot as to whether or not you m
113 Max777geek: Italian magazines reports that witnesses declared to see smoke coming outside the nose landing gear prior to land, and so authorities started investi
114 ZKSUJ: Its sad news and its not great that numerous events have occured lately in that part of the world. My condolences and thoughts to all those lost in th
115 VivaGunners: Another crash in that region, how sad... Really a bad period for Idonesian aviation. RIP to all the victims.
116 LAXspotter: This should be a wake up call for Indonesian aviation. The way to solve the problem is not by banning aircraft older than 10 yrs old, it's is by regul
117 Jasond: Just seen some interesting footage on ABC News (Perth) tonight. Certainly the most detailed so far. I have an XVID of itsitting on my PC. The footage
118 MotorHussy: The front undercarriage was ablaze on approach! MH
119 HiJazzey: My thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families. انا لله و انا ال&
120 Jasond: Who reported that? To be confirmed it must have been seen externally??
121 Mandala499: OK, more pics here... http://www.indoflyer.net/indoforum/tm.asp?m=116617&mpage=9 Blackboxes retrieved, and secured... Then the skidmarks. According to
122 Melpax: Further reports from ABC Australia, including link to video of crash aftermath............. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1865888.htm
123 Zeke: Saw some video earlier taken by one of the pax just after they got out, to me it appeared the fire started at the front of the aircraft, with the fro
124 NAV20: An Australian journalist who walked the area said the aircraft didn't touch down until the one-third point of the runway. According to my reference s
125 Jasond: Refer my Reply 117. Big Kerry (7:30 Report) is now on and they are clearly going with the 'aircraft was too fast on approach' scenario.
127 MotorHussy: Heard it on the TV3 news update at 10:30PM NZ time. And yes of course it was seen externally, they overshot YOG.
128 HB-IWC: Well, it was quite a day here today, and I have to say that reading about it is still quite a different experience from being in the middle of it. I w
129 Jasond: Yeah, I know that. What I meant was that if the fire had started midair as you suggested (now we know it didn't) did anyone outside see it?
130 A3: The worst is , that the way Indonesian aviation goes it will for sure happen again . RIP to the lost.......................
131 Debonair: It may sound evil, but I hope this crash was a sign to the Indonesian Government! This clearly shows, my opinion!, that there has to happen something
132 NAV20: With respect, HB-IWC, our press now says 49 'missing believed killed' (sourced to 'Indonesian authorities'). At a guess, your 22 figure is the number
133 PEET7G: Does anyone know if the flightcrew survived? that cockpit area simply seems to have dessapeared... my prayers to the poor lost souls of this tragedy
134 HB-IWC: I am not going to contradict you, but my 22 figure comes from an internal Garuda document. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were shown to be wron
135 HKGKaiTak: It's apparently a Seven network cameraman who still had his camera with him after he got out. If you're quick you can find the footage here: Very con
136 HB-IWC: For what it's worth, the information that I have here in CGK is that 6 out of 7 flight crew have survived that disaster, although that number may ver
137 Baroque: Obviously they have to be considered, but wind shear, micro-bursts and down draughts are not really likely at 7.00 am in Yogya. Mornings are usually
138 HB-IWC: I would honestly not hold my breath for that. As your post is very well informed, I am sure that you very well realize that the Indonesian Government
139 GFFgold: Right now I think the only casualty figures that can be stated with confidence are the confirmed and identified victims. I have satellite radio and ha
140 Mandala499: NAV20, Well, he's not wrong. JOG is 2200m, the details I received was that the aircraft was reported to have touched down about 1/3 of the way, just b
141 NAV20: Thanks for that video, HKGKaitak. It shows two things that we didn't know before:- 1. The fire didn't take hold until long after many people (includi
142 HB-IWC: Anyone who has ever been at JOG - or other Indonesian domestic airports for that matter - will be able to testify that one shouldn't have too much of
143 GFFgold: So true! The guy with the antique big red fire extinguisher on a hand trolley always makes me smile. In the case of JOG there is the TNI-AU (Indonesi
144 Mandala499: NAV20, It went out of the runway perimeter, over a road, onto an embankment (hence the nose impact and wing detachment), before coming to rest ain a f
145 Tsentsan: Very sad to hear of 2 Indonesian disasters back to back (Yesterday's Earthquake, and now this crash). Perhaps something to do with Indonesia's pretty
146 Mandala499: TsenTsan, We almost ended up in 2 aircrashes within 24hrs, one 732 almost hit amountain yesterday in Medan thanks to poor ATCing. Hearing GPWS screami
147 NAV20: Thanks for #144, Mandal499, fair enough. JOG AND Garuda both go on my family's blacklist, though - it'll soon be the length of a paperback novel......
148 GFFgold: Whose was that? I missed that story. Too many disasters for one week what with Sumbar earthquake as well... can't keep track of them all.
149 Lamedianaranja: Dutch sites even report the name of the captain (Marjoto), and that he's one of the fatalities. http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/5...liegramp_in_In
150 NAV20: The Medan combination of mountains just inland and Indonesian ATC has been lethal before. I've always felt sorry for THIS pilot, the controller gave
151 Varig767: http://www.nos.nl/nosjournaal/artike.../7/070307_vliegramp_indonesie.html See this site for exclusive footage from an Australian survivor. Click on th
152 Jetfuel: So pilot too high and too fast on approach. By the time of reaching the threshold it's obvious you cant wash the speed and the altitude off so you go
153 Jasond: Thanks for the info. Pure speculation but I figured it had landed hard. I'd rather believe it was due to WX rather than some other factor as now appe
154 Baroque: Not really optimistic HB, just it has been an even more awful few years than usual. And usually, the platitudes happen faster than the crash itself.
155 NAV20: Jetfuel, we don't know whether the pilot was experienced or not.
156 Jetfuel: The Capatin of the flight had been with Garuda 21 years, so I would expect him to be somewhat experienced
157 Curmudgeon: Experienced 737 pilots make errors like that very often in the world fleet for a variety of reasons. If your personality or cultural traits prevent y
158 NAV20: Thanks, didn't know that. We still don't know whether he was the 'Pilot Flying', though. For information, I find that Runway 9 (eastbound) is the one
159 Baroque: Is it imagination, or is most of the fire coming from cabin fittings rather than fuel. How long before we have planes that are (much) less combustibl
160 Pilotaydin: well i watched that yahoo video, it seems the a/c is mostly intact from end to end, there is a fire on the right side, i cant tell if it's above or be
161 Zeke: Anyone able to confirm that an Australian Air Force 737 tried to take emergency people to the site from Canberra and broke down ? Dont think fire star
162 David L: As someone who regularly goes off on a rant when people start throwing wild speculation around, I'll be the first to say that the aviation profession
163 NAV20: Cheers, Pilotaydin, i think most of us operate the same way. It's pretty established from reliable witnesses (i.e. people who know a bit about aeropl
164 NAV20: I can add to the speculation, Zeke. Our Foreign Minister, Downer, was in Djakarta and due to fly to JOG today. First reports said that he was waiting
165 Pilotaydin: i just watched cnn now and it seems they overran by quite a bit! as for the ILS part, if they were on a visual approach or if they went manual early o
166 FLYAWA: 737 incident on the date 7-3-7, how strange is that. Sympathies to family and friends of all who perished, RIP.
167 NA: Its sad to see how beautiful Indonesia is haunted by desaster like no other country in this world these days (years). This accident makes the 4th loss
168 F9Animal: There is alot of speculations about the possible cause to the crash. Without really knowing what was happening in the cockpit in the final moments, it
169 Kiwiandrew: even more strange - an American who does their dates the right way around wouldn't most Americans have considered the date to be 3-7-7 ?
170 Osiris30: What I am having a problem understanding is, what happened to the cockpit in the video. That doesn't look like damage one sustains simply running off
171 FLYAWA: Kiwiandrew, you are so right! I try to comply with the global view whenever I can. We Yanks can be so myopic. The world has it sequentially-ordered co
173 Richierich: I don't think its that strange - if you go to an aviation history page, there is a fatal accident of some degree on every single day of the calendar.
174 JCKastrup: The video of the aircraft and the fire, shows that the fire must have started a couple of minutes after the plane stopped. The cameraman is at least 3
175 Pilotaydin: experienced captains and first officers can ALWAYS make a mistake, in fact, the more experienced you are, the less likely you are to follow SOP and ai
176 FLYAWA: Richierich, very insightful reply. Yes, it's been some time since Stratocruisers rules the skies...
177 HB-IWC: It seems now as if 22 is indeed the final figure, unless the number further rises through passengers who perish in hospitals. The earlier communicate
178 Bh4007: Haven't had time to read all of this so this may be a re-post; http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/c...ws=1&bbram=1&bbwm=1&nbwm=1&nbram=1 The above BBC
179 AirFrance: On Comcast it said that witnesses say the boeing 737-400 come down too fast for landing and bounced numerous times then into a rice field where it cau
180 F9Animal: It appears in the video that the front emergency exit was blocked by what looks like a slide?? That may explain why so few in the front made it out.
181 Mandala499: FINALLY got the wind info during the approach,
182 ContnlEliteCMH: You've surely picked a most substantive issue about which to judge America's myopia. Not only can we Yanks be myopic; we can be SO myopic, as evidenc
183 Usair320: My heart goes out to all lost. R.I.P. What the F*** is up with indonesian aviation these days. To many inocent lives taken because of it.
184 Nwlad: i have read through and couldnt find an answer but what caused this? is it no landing gear because it was destroyed?
185 David L: Wouldn't it be a bit difficult to stall while coming in fast and high? I think I'd need to know more about the nature of the shaking, e.g. was it con
186 Mandala499: Easy Victor was commanded by the Captain but was not heard in the cabin due to total power fail... and evac shutdown procs were reported as completed
187 MotorHussy: What golden era are you harking back to?
188 Osiris30: Ok that makes more sense based on the pictures and video I've seen. I couldn't see anything it would have impacted in those pictures thus the reason
189 Viscount724: However GA is one of the very few national carriers in Asia that, according to the IATA website, has not yet completed the IATA Operational Safety Au
190 Curmudgeon: Others have mentioned the "shaking" that was reported by passengers, and assumed a stall. The other explanation which fits better with a fast approac
191 NAV20: Bad writing on my part, DavidL, I didn't make it clear that I was thinking sequentially. But coming in high and fast (anyone who has learned to fly w
192 Zshaheer: i really feel bad for the victims of the crash n their families. Survivors said the Boeing 737 shook violently as it tried to land before shooting off
193 Nwafflyer: For some reason, I can not pick up any of the video links -- can anyone help me here?
194 Aaron747: BBC and other media are still claiming WIIJ is known for having a "short" runway. Since when is 7300 feet short?
195 GFFgold: Local Indonesian language media (and also BBC world) contain reports of some pax trying to recover hand baggage and having to be either yelled at or p
196 OPNLguy: Hardly. How was that 30% figured dervived, especially since the DFDR was only just recovered? The aircraft has an anti-skid system; was it deferred?
197 David L: Thanks - I really didn't see why it necessarily suggested a stall. I can't help thinking that if it had stalled some of the witnesses would have noti
199 WestJetYQQ: Condolances to the Victims. It truly is a tragedy, and I hope this string of accidents in that area of the world will soon end. Cheers Carson PS This
200 Nwafflyer: I have a really hard time imagining that my purse, or laptop, or coat would be so critical to me in an evacuation mode -- and, worse, to think that I
202 IcLCY: It's one of the first things I noticed when watching the news clips, was how many people moving away from the aircraft have bags in their hands. In pa
203 Nwafflyer: Why would a flight attendant, of all people, help with carry on luggage? And why do passengers chose 'things' over lives????
204 OPNLguy: Probably because they view "things" in relation to themselves, i.e. their things, which apparently trumphs the "things" of others, like their lives.
205 NAV20: I rather think they DID notice those, DavdiL. As I explained above, if speed is a problem the pilot will normally keep the nose high to bleed it off.
206 Beau222: I was really amazed as to how fast they removed the Garuda logo off the rudder...
207 Osiris30: @beau222 That's actually pretty common when a plane crashes at an airport. Life for the airline has to go on and the other pax don't need to see the t
208 Barney Captain: No it does not. Anti-skid will work whether or not the auto-brakes are used.
209 MD80fanatic: The winds seemed brisk on the runway heading according to the smoke plume in the video. The stabilizer appears set for landing, or close to it. I bet
210 Mandala499: It was a figure given to me. A further look into it, sounds either "when you skid, you loose about 70% of your braking ability", or "when you loose a
211 BAW076: That's the worldwide media for you. They never know what aircraft they are talking about, let alone the difference between long and short. - I guess
212 NAV20: All good comments/information, Mandala499. This bit interests me particularly.:- It's relatively unusual for the pilots to survive this sort of accide
213 Jetfuel: THE black box from Garuda Airlines flight GA200 had been recovered and would be sent to Australia for analysis, the airline said today. http://www.new
214 Mandala499: Pilots extremely depressed and require counselling. He is said to be unable to reveal much due to emotional stress (unverifiable) The threat of penal
215 Mandala499: btw, looking at the pics, it would seem that it was flap15 or so... scary...
216 Hawker: Latest news vision shows the whole fin being cut off the plane. One way of hiding the airline logo I guess!
217 Mandala499: No, they're cutting the fin of to clear itself as an obstacle to 09 take off and/or 27 landing... Now, this is beginning to look like flap assym landi
219 Pilotaydin: flap assymetry and they opted for a 7300 foot airfield landing? looking at the QRH, that looks like a bad choice, at elast with Autobrake 2 selected!!
220 Mandala499: Aydin, Wasn't much choice... Nearest one to JOG was SOC, 2600m... 70NM from there is a 2200m runway at Semarang... Diverting to Surabaya or Jakarta wo
221 Jetfuel: As a pilot sometimes the best thing to do is get the aircraft on the ground ASAP. If you have a fire, engine(s) out and/or a serious hydraulic failur
222 NAV20: The flaps being part-raised MAY be evidence of malfunction - or it may be evodence of an attempt to go around that ended up being 'too little, too la
223 Mandala499: NAV20, Skidmarks and nosegear marks were on the asphalt to the very end of the runway. However, the nosewheel, was no doubt detached on the runway...
224 AJ: Any chance the nosewheel tires burst and the nosegear snapped due to a failed attempt to turn off the runway and stay within the airport perimeter?
225 NAV20: If anyone cares to click on 'Slideshow - How crash happened' below the first story on here they'll see an 'artist's impression' of how the accident ha
226 Mandala499: OK, since the pics have been up for 24hrs... Here are the pics... The body bags being prepared *sigh* Remains 1 Remains 2 & left Engine Evacuation pre
227 Jetfuel: The presentation claims the reversers were not activated. Now that could be an issue of failure or it could mean a late attempt at a go around
228 David L: I'm sorry but I just don't see why you're so sure there was a stall. Why couldn't the visible "shaking" be due to coarse control movements? Why could
229 Mandala499: There are a few things that raises questions... Why were there skidmarks if he tried to go around? And the nose gear imprint... Eyewitnesses airside s
230 XT6Wagon: Modern engines are alot better than the old turbojets, and most jets come in with alot of drag and a good bit of power so that if you need to go arou
231 NAV20: Not sure of anything, DavidL. Just speculating, as we all are. But it's about the only thing I can think of (other than the pilot going raving mad) t
232 Jetfuel: I am not sure how reliable the report is, but media is saying THE pilots of the Garuda plane that crashed yesterday on landing at Yogyakarta Airport a
233 NAV20: Thanks for finding that, Jetfuel. The implication is that it was a crosswind. Seems unlikely - about the only thing RIGHT about that landing was that
234 David L: Fair enough. In that case, I don't see why it's the only thing you can think of. Perhaps it is odd but it might explain the "shaking" that was observ
235 MD80fanatic: They could have initiated a GoAround at any moment....even after touchdown. Why didn't they? A plane coming in hot....and touching nosewheel first, in
236 NAV20: For my part I don't see why you keep insisting that it couldn't have happened, DavidL. If we can agree that it's a possibility, I'll rest my case! Fu
237 MD80fanatic: If the truth is not best for business, then what is best for business will become the truth. Sorry to say....the weather is the only "potential" facto
238 Baroque: The downdraft theory seems to have a few problems. As Nav20 implies, if they were on a normal approach, a downdraft would surely have banged them into
239 Vimanav: It's eerie and I don't know if anyone noticed this... The crash happened on 7-3-7... rgds//Vimanav
240 ContnlEliteCMH: But only the "enlightened" will see the real truth, right? It's going to be *really* hard to pin this one on the weather. Clear weather microburst. R
241 Pilotaydin: hi there, well while your logic sounds good, the Boeing book doesnt say this... I fly the 737-400/800 currently and i can tell you that there are a h
242 Flyorski: I think that is so the runway can be re-opened?
243 David L: By all means, show me where I said that.
244 OPNLguy: I think I'll wait for data from the DFDR to be released. Second- and third-hand anecdotal information isn't sufficient to use in coming to any conclu
245 MD80fanatic: You are coming to a sad realization......Cancel or Allow? Hold on. Are you trying to tell me that if these officials succesfully pin this accident on
246 Jasond: Having cast my eyeball over the additional footage the flaps do look like they are not set for a normal 737 landing config. You can see that clearly
247 Mandala499: That "may" could be a disclaimer by Capt. Stephanus not to be accused of pre-empting the investigators. Capt. Marwoto suicidal? Maybe after the accid
248 NAV20: Just stopping it there for a moment, at a guess he'd have put down rhe second notch of flap about 5 miles out (again, assuming that he was carrying o
249 Jasond: But surely all of these issues: going to fast, couldn't lower nose, couldn't bleed off excessive speed have told the crew that the approach was now w
250 NAV20: That's my 'gut feeling' on what we know so far, Jasond. They should have gone around. For some reason (possibly, even probably, pride) they delayed t
251 NAV20: Further to that, speculation only at this point, but this 'The Australian' article tends to suuport that view:- "Reports from Indonesia yesterday cont
252 Jasond: So perhaps the WX element here was an added unwanted complication to an existing speed problem. I would also suggest that the flap extension schedule
253 Mandala499: Err, Flap Assym does not require an emergency to be declared. A flap15 would bring you in at Vref30+30 if I remember correctly on the 737... so, 160
254 NAV20: Sorry, DavidL, indulged in a bit of sarcasm. But I've only mentioned the possibility so much because you kept challenging it. In any case we have a w
255 Jetfuel: So let's assume an approach with 15 flap for just one minute. That would be an approach speed of say 165 knots? Does anybody with a P landing chart ca
256 MD80fanatic: My guess would be 4000 - 4200 feet.
257 Jetfuel: The other issue is that if there was an assymetric flap problem I doubt the aircraft would have been so close to the centre line of the pavement when
258 NAV20: Fair enough, Mandala499 - but it's certainly something you'd at least mention to the Tower? And even the Pilots' Assoc. guy only said 'may,' if it ha
259 Mandala499: That's the safety net... However, I wouldn't be surprised if the ministry of transport tries to blame it on something else. The problem I have about
260 Jasond: My reference to flap 15 was simply based on the observation from images so far that 15 appears to be (I could be wrong) the current setting on the cra
261 Mandala499: JasonD, No worries... A slight modificaton to #1 or even a #3... "Flap assymetry resulting in not being able (or prohibited) to deploy flaps beyond fl
262 Curmudgeon: Let me weigh in here once more fellas: (Since you wanted a 737 pilot's opinion, Nav20) 1. The DFDR and CVR are apparently damaged, and already there'
263 HAWK21M: Isn't the CVR & DFDR build to withstand that Blaze. regds MEL
264 Tom12: Excuse my iugnorance but what is this? Tom
265 NAV20: Thanks, Curmudgeon. Looks likely - they showed them on the TV News, looked like bits of half-burned coke. Surprising what those things can put up with
266 Mandala499: Again, GA SOP indicates the use of ILS whenever available, even in VMC, they use the ILS to assist in the initial approach. At what stage in the appro
267 Curmudgeon: Excuse my Jargon. It means digital flight data recorder, but the digital part may not be applicable. I think all 737-400 aircraft would have a digita
268 David L: No, what I challenged were your repeated implications that a stall was the most likely cause: I think you'll find you mentioned the possibility/proba
269 MD80fanatic: Both recorders are damaged and compromised? This is the official way of saying "you will get the valued opinions of respected experts.....but you aren
270 Curmudgeon: For what it's worth, both recorders are in Canberra right now, at the Australian ATSB (think:NTSB with an accent). The Indonesian government asked fo
271 Curmudgeon: For what it's worth, both recorders are in Canberra right now, at the Australian ATSB (think:NTSB with an accent). The Indonesian government asked fo
272 NAV20: Better news in (tomorrow's) newspaper:- "The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were flown to Canberra today and taken to the Australian
273 MD80fanatic: Thanks guys for letting me know that my posts here and on the crash video thread aren't just appearing on my screen alone. I was starting to wonder.
274 Baroque: Excellent and most uncurmudgeonly explanation. With Mandala's commentaries, it all seems a bit less mysterious.
275 HAWK21M: Digital Flight Data recorder. Thanks.Now makes sense. regds MEL
276 David L: Do we actually know what the "damage" is? Perhaps we're talking about a few external dents and charring, which, I'm pretty sure, have happened to rec
277 Baroque: The pics make them look very second hand, but the ?experts looking at them while the cameras were on did not seem greatly fazed at their condition. B
278 NAV20: This seems pretty conclusive evidence, to me, that the aeroplane wasn't the problem:- "THE chief pilot of the passenger plane engulfed by a deadly fir
279 MD80fanatic: That doesn't explain the high approach speed and serious lack of braking authority. After a slamdown landing....you'd think the PNF would notice, in r
280 NAV20: Not sure 'confident' is the right word, MD80fanatic. 'Increasingly convinced,' maybe? Who is in charge of those if it isn't the 'Pilot Flying'? The on
281 Curmudgeon: I might just pop in here again with another observation: The aviation industry in general is moving away from the old fashioned model of captain as G
282 MD80fanatic: I sounds like the PF blacked out for the entire rollout.....at any time during which the PNF could engage reversers, raise spoilers, and press the toe
283 NAV20: MD80fanatic, you don't believe that he actually DID black out, do you? Yesterday it was a 'downdraught,' today it's a blackout. With an added embelli
284 Curmudgeon: Yeah...I wonder about the translation, especially of what was said by a guy still coming to grips with what happened. I'm not surprised that a blackou
285 MD80fanatic: NAV, No, I don't believe he blacked out. I personally need to play devil's advocate (with myself) in order to explore the theory to the fullest extent
286 Curmudgeon: The serious mechanical flaw theory may be true. May I suggest the faulty component was the nut holding the wheel?
287 NAV20: Fair enough, MD. Fair to say, though, that there hasn't been a skerrick of evidence of mechanical failure yet. On the other hand there's mounting
288 MD80fanatic: I am certainly not against blaming negligent pilots......I gave no quarter to the Comair pilots, and that is accurate history. In the scheme of things
289 Electech6299: Was that an echo... Fire, engine fail, hydraulic fail...get on the ground. Both agree, so I'm confused by the apparent disagreement Lets try to clean
290 MD80fanatic: Or prevents him from corroborating with others to expose the truth. This possibility cannot simply be tossed aside.
291 NAV20: If there HAD been 'mechanical issues,' MD80fantaic, wouldn't you have expected the pilot to mention them, instead of pleading 'downdraughts' and 'bla
292 MD80fanatic: I fail to understand why this is relevent? Please correct me if I am mistaken. The nosewheel only provides directional control....there are no brake
293 Curmudgeon: With all due respect, you need to get out more. The single least reliable thing on an airplane is the pilot. This is usually offset by the other guy
294 MD80fanatic: I guess we will have to wait for the CVR. If a serious mechanical occurred below 500ft altitude on final, I doubt there'd be much chatter to controll
295 NAV20: Don't understand all this concentration on what happened AFTER the aeroplane hit the runway? It hit 2,000 feet or more past the threshold, and hit so
296 Electech6299: Bringing an object of (insert mass of full- or possibly even overweight- 734 here) to a complete stop, or even to taxi speed, from approach speed, is
297 MD80fanatic: Are you stating this as fact? If so can I assume you are one who wishes full cockpit automation (no human interaction) would arrive sooner rather tha
298 MD80fanatic: I have stipulated from the start of this thread that the plane had a serious hydraulic issue, one that could have been going from bad to worse. My be
299 Curmudgeon: Well, I have been a pilot for let's see....37 years now. I have taught airline pilots, and listened to them, and been one for a few decades now. I am
300 NAV20: With all respect, MD80fanatic (sincerely meant), if there HAD been such a serious fault, why wasn't it the first thing the Captain said when he was q
301 XT6Wagon: It is possible that he "blacked out" as far as he can recall... one of my more memorable skiing mishaps left me only recalling the time period till m
302 Electech6299: I think this gets to the crux of the issue. The lawsuit does not claim that ATC was 100% at fault. It doesn't even claim that the pilots weren't 99%
303 NAV20: He could very well have been knocked out when the aeroplane hit the runway, XT6Wagon. But it's hardly likely that he blacked out at 'decision height'
304 Electech6299: I can't speak for him, but I will take up his argument on this point. From his posts, Perhaps the press reports we have of the interviews with the PI
305 XT6Wagon: Mmm, what I was trying to indicate that its possible that while he was knocked out later in the event, even as late as the berm, its possible his mem
306 NAV20: In which case he wouldn't be talking about 'downdraughts' and 'blackouts,' he'd simply be saying "I'm sorry, I can't remember what happenrd"?
307 NAV20: Bit more 'imagination' from those darned journalists :- (Excerpts) "CRASH investigators have ruled out suggestions of a downdraft being responsible fo
308 Baroque: This is very true and could have been a major factor. And for anyone who is at fault, shame is pretty powerful in that society. Dreadful is probably
309 NAV20: I explained why I'm losing sympahy with him, Baroque. He 'has the right to remain silent;' but NOT to make up one phoney excuse after another. If he
310 ANCFlyer: Continue here: Indonesian B737 Crash Part 2 (by ANCFlyer Mar 10 2007 in Civil Aviation)
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1086 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 140 posts, 
From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 227 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 4983 posts, 
From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4708 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 1065 posts, 
From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 1970 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 101 posts, 
From Romania, joined Feb 2007, 508 posts, 
Again? So soon after the Adam Air 737 crash in Indonesian airspace? 
From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3134 posts, 
From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 3922 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
