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Dornier 328jet Production  
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3711 times:

I was checking out some shots of the Dornier 328jet and as usual looked up some background info on wikipedia. I notice that it says production by Dornier halted in 2002 when it went under. Wikipedia goes on to say that AvCraft Aviation of Virginia acquired rights to the program and delivered its first jet in 2004. AvCraft then went under in 2005, but was reformed under the name of M7 Aerospace.
What is the current status of the Dornier 328 line? For such a beautiful looking jet I am surprised it has seen such little success...but I guess looks aren't everything. In a way it does live on with the new Antonov An-148 as it does look very similar. I guess we can tie the Antonov into this thread as well...will some of the western 328Jet operators possibly look to replace the 328 with Antonov An-148, or are they more likely to go with an ERJ? Also, can a reopened 328Jet line possible compete with the An-148?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Thread starter):
will some of the western 328Jet operators possibly look to replace the 328 with Antonov An-148, or are they more likely to go with an ERJ?

First of all, the 328 is a 32 seat jet and the -148 is a 100 seat jet. You can almost be guarantied that no western carriers will operate an Antonov. Regional Jets as the -328 is are usually replaced by another RJs, so yes ERJ or CRJ would be the replacement.


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

The 328Jet was a development of the 328 turboprop ... going from one of the fastest turboprops to one of the slowest RJs.

It's still a nice aircraft and may have seen more success if they'd gone ahead with the 428JET ... which would have featured improvements such as thrust reversers in addition to the larger capacity.

In hindsight, Dornier might have been better off improving on the 328 prop series and eventually building a 428 prop as large props are now making a comeback.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5113 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 2):
The 328Jet was a development of the 328 turboprop ... going from one of the fastest turboprops to one of the slowest RJs.

It's still a nice aircraft and may have seen more success if they'd gone ahead with the 428JET ... which would have featured improvements such as thrust reversers in addition to the larger capacity.

In hindsight, Dornier might have been better off improving on the 328 prop series and eventually building a 428 prop as large props are now making a comeback.

My first experience on a 328 involved an emergency landing due to engine problems. The pilot shut an engine down due to a warning, and it was an ex Horizon Air bird painted all grey. Scary experience! But, I did get on another 328 the next day, and I was impressed with it.

I know Horizon had a bunch of them, but eventually got rid of them. I think it was because of maintenance issues. I would like to see them bring back production, and maybe try to relaunch the 428JET.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineClearedDirect From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

I think the Envoy - the business version of the 328 - is a great platform for a business jet.
Too bad there are not more of them.

CD


User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Weren't these aircraft rather expensive? which IIRC also led to less then spectacular sales?


-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 2):
The 328Jet was a development of the 328 turboprop ... going from one of the fastest turboprops to one of the slowest RJs.

The 328 was/is the best 30-seater turboprop in my opinion, way better in terms of passenger comfort and speed than say J41, SAAB 340, EMB-120 etc. I flew on one in Italy a few years back and loved it!

Never been on the 328 JET - a very good concept but wrong engines!

The 30-seater market is badly "unexploited" with Embarer offering a jet and prop in that category but with crippling performance (135) in terms of TO and Landing filed requirement.

Dornier 328s would surely be a welcomed product!



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3013 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 6):
Dornier 328s would surely be a welcomed product!

If you need a jet to travel 500NM or less and get in and out of high terrain areas, then the 328Jet is what you want. But if you need range and speed, it's hands down the ERJ-135. All 30 some seaters will have weight restrictions, the 328Jet have plenty of them.


User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 3):
I know Horizon had a bunch of them, but eventually got rid of them. I think it was because of maintenance issues. I would like to see them bring back production

I flew on the 328 with Horizon on several occasions, and loved them. They really didn't last very long in the QX fleet, though. Only a few years. One of my dad's friends flew the 328 for them, and he once told me why they got rid of them, but I don't recall what it was off hand. Sure would be nice to see it go back into production. Of coures, I'd even more like to see the 728 in production. I know it will never happen, but that was the most beautiful airplane I ever saw.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 8):
f coures, I'd even more like to see the 728 in production. I know it will never happen, but that was the most beautiful airplane I ever saw.

Bombardier could have taken it over instead of attempting to develop a "clean-page" C-Series. They'd probably would have gotten the project for "peanuts" as well.  Sad



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineKSUpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 656 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2880 times:

Quoting ClearedDirect (Reply 4):
I think the Envoy - the business version of the 328 - is a great platform for a business jet.
Too bad there are not more of them.

I agree, and it is one of the better looking biz-jets out there as well.

They were also planning a stretched version of the 328, it would have been nice to have seen how that would have worked out. Dornier could have eventually made a larger, 100 seat version to go head to head with Antonov.


User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 7):
If you need a jet to travel 500NM or less and get in and out of high terrain areas, then the 328Jet is what you want

So could it almost be a replacement for the BAe-146? for places like Aspen?


-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineTerryb99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2849 times:

I flew a few segments last year on Seair's 328's. The first flight was on one of their LET 410's. We bumped and jumped all over the sky during a rain storm from Clark to Manila, with several passengers getting air sick. When we were ready to board for the next flight to Caticlan, that 328 looked like a 737 in comparison, lol.
What a great plane, smooth, comfortable, and pressurized. Big grin


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 11):
So could it almost be a replacement for the BAe-146? for places like Aspen?

Except it's about half the size.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2765 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Thread starter):
as usual looked up some background info on wikipedia

Take anything you read on Wikipedia with a grain of salt to its truthfullness.......



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCactusTECH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

I used to work on 328jets back when ACA was fying them out of LGA, cool airplane to fly due to it's high wing and rapid climb, but it was very unreliable.

User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6341 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 10):
Dornier could have eventually made a larger, 100 seat version to go head to head with Antonov.

FYI, the FD 928 design was for a low-wing aircraft that had nothing in common with the 328. FD's plans were for a stretched 328 (designated the 428 as others have pointed out) and then the larger 528, 728 and 928 clean sheet design variants with only the 728 getting to the assembly stage.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Quoting CactusTECH (Reply 15):
ool airplane to fly due to it's high wing and rapid climb, but it was very unreliable.

Can you please elaborate what were the difficulties you witnessed/experienced in terms of reliability?



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 17):
Can you please elaborate what were the difficulties you witnessed/experienced in terms of reliability?

From my personal accounts the following problems have occurred more than most planes should.

- APUs seem to have a 6 month working life.
- FADEC and EFIS software have way too many glitches.
- Generators fail way too often.

Those are the main issues I've seen here in MKE with our birds.


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 18):

- APUs seem to have a 6 month working life.
- FADEC and EFIS software have way too many glitches.
- Generators fail way too often.

Those are the main issues I've seen here in MKE with our birds.

Thanks!

Is that for the 100 (prop) or 300 (Jet) series?



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26704 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Quoting KSUpilot (Thread starter):
For such a beautiful looking jet I am surprised it has seen such little success...

Its operating costs were frightful and it was little faster, even slower than, turboprops. The Q400 offers twice the capacity, just as fast and with less cost risk

Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 1):
Regional Jets as the -328 is are usually replaced by another RJs, so yes ERJ or CRJ would be the replacement.

It would make more sense to replace them with props

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 6):
Never been on the 328 JET - a very good concept but wrong engines!

I disagree that it was ever a good concept. The engines weren't the only problem, the whole aircraft should have had a complete redesign if Dornier wanted to make a jet. Further, the CASM on a 30 seat jet is absolutely ridiculous.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 6):
The 30-seater market is badly "unexploited" with Embarer offering a jet and prop in that category but with crippling performance (135) in terms of TO and Landing filed requirement.

The 135's performance is fine for pretty much every market it needs to serve. The reason that aircraft hasn't sold that well is because it is too damn small to be burning Jet A

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 11):
So could it almost be a replacement for the BAe-146? for places like Aspen?



Quoting JBo (Reply 13):
Except it's about half the size.

Less than half the size, much higher CASM.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 19):
Is that for the 100 (prop) or 300 (Jet) series?

Skyway only flies the -300, not the -100.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Why did Dornier abandon the 928 project, and how close is Antonov to 148 production?


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
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