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Randy's Blog: The Year Of The 767  
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10745 times:

Quote:
It�s been a whirlwind year or so for an airplane program that many observers had not too long ago left for dead.

And I remember myself telling reporters about two years ago that we had about six months of leeway before making a decision on whether to end the 767 line...

...So, the 767 line in Everett is going to be humming - with 62 unfilled orders for 767s as of the end of February...

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/

IIRC, the current production rate is at a bare minimum of 9-12 aircraft annually, does anyone know precisely what the plans are for ramping-up production on this assembly line?

[Edited 2007-03-07 18:13:35]

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10584 times:

Unreal that it has 62 unfilled orders.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10565 times:

People tend to forget that the 767 is the most popular widebody airplane overall after the 747. We've sold more than 1,000 to date (three times more than the competing model - A330-200).

http://boeingblogs.com/randy/

Mr Randy tends to be a first class idiot when he wants. Why is it that Mr Randy has no problem in comparing the sales of the B767 vs the A330-200, but fails to mention that the B767-200/ER/300/ER/F also competes directly with the A300 and A310?

If Mr Randy wants to be taken seriously then maybe he should have referred the following numbers that correspond to the the direct competitor of the A330-200.

A330-200 ( 399 frames) vs B767-400 ( 38 frames sold)

Ohhhh by the way, here are the sales figures for the following aircraft that also competed directly with the B767.

A300 = 561 frames sold
A310 = 255 frames sold.

It is with out a doubt that the A300/A310/A330/A340 fuselage cross section is in fact the best sold widebody in history (1900+) and not the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800 like Mr Randy referred.

Regards,
Wings

[Edited 2007-03-07 18:41:59]


Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineAirCop From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10563 times:

Mostly freighters I would assume, although the 763 is still the perfect aircraft for some routes.

User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3396 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10444 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Regards,
Wings

Well, The 767 no longer competes with the A300/A310 as a new build aircraft since you can no longer buy a A300 or A310

More over, lumping all of a given "cross section" together to make a number is silly. Are you compensating for something? Worried that you need to stuff another gym-sock down there or you won't get the ladies? If you want to use this I might point out that boeing has a single cross section that has outsold the total production of Airbus, since Airbus was started.... by a good margin.

The A300 and A310 alone are two different aircraft. Oh and no matter what you say the A330 and A340 while sharing a very nice level of commonality, ARE NOT THE SAME FAMILY. Certainly not by the time you get to the A340NG which stupidly isn't even that common with the old A340.


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10349 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
It is with out a doubt that the A300/A310/A330/A340 fuselage cross section is in fact the best sold widebody in history (1900+) and not the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800 like Mr Randy referred.

But that isn't what he said. He said that the 767 is the most popular widebody AIRPLANE currently which is correct no other widebody has sold that many. Now there maybe 4 airbus models that combined sold more but that isn't what he said. I will also add that if you include the a300 with the a340 you should also include the 777 with the 747 or perhapps even the 787 in which boeing leads even without the 787 at 2408. I don't think randy was lying here like you claim I will say that he definately fudges the facts nothing that is untrue.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineAirways45 From United Kingdom, joined May 2000, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10319 times:

Quoting Sangas (Thread starter):
...So, the 767 line in Everett is going to be humming - with 62 unfilled orders for 767s as of the end of February...

It's amazing what discounting an airplane can do for your production line...!  Wink

Airways45


User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10296 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):

Well, The 767 no longer competes with the A300/A310 as a new build aircraft since you can no longer buy a A300 or A310

When was the last B767-200/ER sold? It does not make any difference as he clearly failed to mention the clear facts.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
More over, lumping all of a given "cross section" together to make a number is silly

Yet it wasn't silly for Mr Randy to group the sales of the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
f you want to use this I might point out that boeing has a single cross section that has outsold the total production of Airbus, since Airbus was started.... by a good margin.

I clearly mentioned Wide Body cross section. You may not know this but the A320-200 series is actually the best sold frame in aviation history.

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
The A300 and A310 alone are two different aircraft.

Really? And the B767-200/ER/300/ER/400 are what?

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
Oh and no matter what you say the A330 and A340 while sharing a very nice level of commonality, ARE NOT THE SAME FAMILY.

I consider the A332/A333/A342/A343 a remarkable achievement. With one nearly identical, fuselage/wings they managed to serve two different markets. Many people around here don't give Airbus the credit that they truly deserve for this achievement.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineFlyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10252 times:

Wings, your next tribute should be the 767, it is a great plane...... And with 62 unfilled orders after this many years, it is truly remarkable.


"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10215 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Mr Randy tends to be a first class idiot when he wants.

Or he's just being a first class salesman and marketer.  Wink

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Why is it that Mr Randy has no problem in comparing the sales of the B767 vs the A330-200, but fails to mention that the B767-200/ER/300/ER/F also competes directly with the A300 and A310? If Mr Randy wants to be taken seriously then maybe he should have referred the following numbers that correspond to the the direct competitor of the A330-200: A330-200 ( 399 frames ) vs B767-400 ( 38 frames sold )

Yet airlines that flew 767-200s and 767-300s started ordering A330-200s before the 767-400 was launched. It's true the 767-400 best matches the A330-200 in terms of internal space and capacity, but I know that you know that airlines do not solely base their purchase decisions on capacity. The A330-200 offered them more range, more capacity, and more payload then the 767-200ER and 767-300ER did so that is why airlines started to buy it instead of just staying with the 767 family.

The 20 747-8I's LH bought are 20 A388s they won't, even if LH ends up taking every A388 option they have. And the 19 A388's SQ bought are 19 748-I's they won't, even if they do end up adding 747-8I's to their fleet. The two do not directly compare in seating, but they both address the same mission profile - moving lots of people long distances - so when they buy one, they are making a conscious decision not to buy the other. Such was the situation with the 767 vs. the A330 - and the 777 vs. the A340 and the 737 vs. the A320 and the DC-10/L-1011 vs. the A330/A310.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
It is with out a doubt that the A300/A310/A330/A340 fuselage cross section is in fact the best sold widebody in history (1900+) and not the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800 like Mr Randy referred.

Okay, but by that logic one can combine every 707, 727, 737 and 757 sold which comes to over 10719 frames and makes it the unquestioned narrobody leader by an order of magnitude and makes the A320 family's sales accomplishment look absolutely lame in comparison.

Yet the A300, A310, A330 and A340 all served different markets and missions just as the 707, 727, 737 and 757 did. So I'm not sure what you can draw from that other then the fuselage diameter was mighty popular for each widebody and narrowbody variant.


User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Despite being replaced by the 787, the 767 is still extremely popular. AC had been leasing new 767-300ERs as recent as 2004. I still hope to be on the last AC 767-300ER flight, possibly in 2014...


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 5):

But that isn't what he said. He said that the 767 is the most popular widebody AIRPLANE currently

He also said this.

People tend to forget that the 767 is the most popular widebody airplane overall after the 747

The point is that Mr Randy is know for his unique ability to twist the facts. Why did he not mention the A300/A310 series? Maybe it's because the A310-200/300 out sold the B767-200/ER, or maybe for the fact that the A306F outsold the B763F.

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 5):
Now there maybe 4 airbus models that combined sold more but that isn't what he said. I will also add that if you include the a300 with the a340 you should also include the 777 with the 747 or perhapps even the 787 in which boeing leads even without the 787 at 2408.

Since when does the B747, B777 and B787 share the same fuselage cross section?

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 5):
I don't think randy was lying here like you claim I will say that he definately fudges the facts nothing that is untrue.

I never claimed he lied. He clearly withheld the correct facts, so that he could make his product look better. That is his job. The same thing can be said about loud mouth Mr Leahy and his cheap talk.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineBigJimFX From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10100 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Why is it that Mr Randy has no problem in comparing the sales of the B767 vs the A330-200,

I thought the A330/340 were made to compete with the many models of 767/'s/ 777's

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 4):
More over, lumping all of a given "cross section" together to make a number is silly. Are you compensating for something? Worried that you need to stuff another gym-sock down there or you won't get the ladies? If you want to use this I might point out that boeing has a single cross section that has outsold the total production of Airbus, since Airbus was started.... by a good margin.

The A300 and A310 alone are two different aircraft.

Well that seems to work with the ladies till i'm done with them... Which is all that matters... wink  Meanwhile the 767 and 777 are different cross sections...
And granted the A300/ A310's are different A/C, the A310 is just a shorter A300. Different length, same family. Which is why we called it the "Baby Bus" @ FX... Like the A318/319/320/321, or the B731,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 LOL

I know the 321 was built to compete with th 757, and I know the 757 can outclimb it and I don't care.... this just seemed to be the start of an A vs. B thing.



I'd like to thank me for flying Me Airways...
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10058 times:

You can pick any criteria you like for a comparison. The job of a good PR person is to pick the criteria that make you look good, without falsifying anything. He's decided the best way to make the 767 look good is by comparing it as an aircraft model against other inidivdual models. His numbers are correct and convincing in that context, and make Boeing and the 767 look good.

Wings has decided he doesn't like that set of criteria, so he's created his own set of criteria, which involves the markets the plane competes in against a particular cross-section. For that set of criteria, he has also brought his own set of numbers, which is very convincing and makes the 767 and Boeing look bad compared to Airbus and their A300/310/330/340 common cross-section "family".

Stitch followed that up by saying that if you want to apply that set of criteria to one segment of the airplane market, you should apply it to all sections of that market. To that effect, he uses Wings criteria to show that the A320 cross-section "family" is actually an abject failure when compared to the 707/727/737/757 cross-section "family". His numbers also appear to be accurate and very convincing.

So in the end, PR is about picking your criteria such that you can find numbers that make you look good. Calling him a liar because you didn't get to pick your own criteria is ridiculous. If you want to pick your own criteria, get your own PR blog for whichever manufacturer you want to support.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineLokey123 From Barbados, joined May 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10059 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 11):
People tend to forget that the 767 is the most popular widebody airplane overall after the 747

It is clear that he is referring to the 767 as a family, and that makes the statement correct. Additionally, I believe that the 707, 727, 737 classic and NG, and the 757 share the same fuse cross-section, that is a whole lot of airplanes sold and on order.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10019 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
A330-200 ( 399 frames) vs B767-400 ( 38 frames sold)

Ohhhh by the way, here are the sales figures for the following aircraft that also competed directly with the B767.

A300 = 561 frames sold
A310 = 255 frames sold.

It is with out a doubt that the A300/A310/A330/A340 fuselage cross section is in fact the best sold widebody in history (1900+) and not the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800 like Mr Randy referred.

How very sill you are.

According to your logic, 707, 727,737, and 757 are all the same plane... and their total production is

707 - 1,010
727 - 1,832
737 - 5,268
757 - 1,050
Total = 9,160

So apparently this boeing 'model' has twice as many aircraft produced as Airbus all together....


Just because something shares a cross section does not make it the same plane.

An A310-200 and an A340-600 share little in common, besides both sharing the same pipe diameter.

A330-200 is a valid comparison against 767-400ER and 767-300ER (i realize 767-300ER is somewhat smaller than A332, but in terms of range, they are quite similar, and 763ER fits the A332 mission profile better than the A300-600 profile. A300-600 cannot do 12+ hour transpacific flights.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9993 times:

Quoting Flyorski (Reply 8):
Wings, your next tribute should be the 767, it is a great plane...... And with 62 unfilled orders after this many years, it is truly remarkable.

It would be a pleasure to write up a Tribute to the B767, although my Tributes are for out of production models. The B767 still has a healthy future, especially if the USAF opts for the B767-200 tanker.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
Or he's just being a first class salesman and marketer.

Mr Leahy and Mr Randy are twins separated at birth.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):

Yet airlines that flew 767-200s and 767-300s started ordering A330-200s before the 767-400 was launched. It's true the 767-400 best matches the A330-200 in terms of internal space and capacity, but I know that you know that airlines do not solely base their purchase decisions on capacity. The A330-200 offered them more range, more capacity, and more payload then the 767-200ER and 767-300ER did so that is why airlines started to buy it instead of just staying with the 767 family.

Absolutely correct.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 3853 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

"Oh and no matter what you say the A330 and A340 while sharing a very nice level of commonality, ARE NOT THE SAME FAMILY."

I think the FAA would agree with you there. Two different type certificate:
A330 - A46NM
A340 - A43NM

The rest, as they say, is marketing...  


Boeing:

737 (-100 - 900) A16WE
747 (-100 - 400) A20WE
757 (-200 - 300) A2NM
767 (-200 - 400) A1NM

[Edited 2007-03-07 20:02:49]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9900 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 16):
Mr Leahy and Mr Randy are twins separated at birth.



http://boeingblogs.com/randy/images/blog_header.jpg

There's some resemblance (neither gentleman seems to have the need/desire to "restore" the natural color of their hair), though I think they're really twin brothers born of different mothers.

Edited for spelling error.

[Edited 2007-03-07 19:55:38]

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12135 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9901 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Ohhhh by the way, here are the sales figures for the following aircraft that also competed directly with the B767.

A300 = 561 frames sold
A310 = 255 frames sold.

It is with out a doubt that the A300/A310/A330/A340 fuselage cross section is in fact the best sold widebody in history (1900+) and not the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800 like Mr Randy referred.

Ohhh, here we go again.  Yeah sure The A-300, A-310, A330, and A-340 are four different types, serving four different markets. 3 of the 4 have seperate certifications. All B-747s operate from the same certification, updated for each model.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Mr Randy tends to be a first class idiot when he wants. Why is it that Mr Randy has no problem in comparing the sales of the B767 vs the A330-200, but fails to mention that the B767-200/ER/300/ER/F also competes directly with the A300 and A310?

Both Boeing and Airbus say the A-330 competes against the B-767. In fact, both are the only real consideration for the USAF KC-X compitition. BTW, Randy has never hidden the fact he works for Boeing. Do you work for Airbus/EADS? If not, you really should, perhaps you can help them solve their problems with the A-380, A-340, and Power 8.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Yet it wasn't silly for Mr Randy to group the sales of the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800.

Why not, you grouped the sales of 4 types. The B-747 is only one type.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
You may not know this but the A320-200 series is actually the best sold frame in aviation history.

What rock do you live under? Have you ever heard of the DC-3? Have you ever heard of the B-737? Have you ever heard of the A-320?

Do you know the B-737 alone has sold more airplanes than all the Airbus types, combined?  bigthumbsup 

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Really? And the B767-200/ER/300/ER/400 are what?

All B-767s.  Big grin

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
I consider the A332/A333/A342/A343 a remarkable achievement. With one nearly identical, fuselage/wings they managed to serve two different markets.

I consider the A-340-200 and -300 both as a failure. The A-340-500/-600 are not running away with any sales awards, either. The A-330-200/-300 are an Airbus success story. Well, maybe not a successful as we think since Airbus is practically giving A-330s away at bargan basement prices to those airline who have to wait 2+ years for their WhaleJets.


User currently offlineCubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 407 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9789 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Mr Randy tends to be a first class idiot when he wants



Quoting WINGS (Reply 11):
The point is that Mr Randy is know for his unique ability to twist the facts.

And....Airbus' Leahy doesn't???

Come on guys, make your points and quit with the "mine is better than yours" nonsense....on and on and on.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30898 posts, RR: 87
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9749 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

As to the A320 vs. 737, one needs to note WINGS was referring specifically to the A320-200, which has outsold the 737-100, 737-200, 737-300, 737-400, 747-500, 737-600, 737-700, 737-800 and 737-900 when comparing frame to frame (A320-200 to 737-200 or A320-200 to 737-800) and not the A320 family (all models) vs. the 737 family (all models).

As to the DC-3, were they all built as one model? I tend to think not, so it is possible no single model of the DC-3 family sold more then ~2755 (which is the total sales of the A320-200, but does also include the A320-100 as well as A320-100s converted to A320-200 specification).


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 3853 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9614 times:

The A300 and A310 alone are two different aircraft.

Not really, both have the same type certificate, A35EU.

Interestingly, there's no MD-80 type certificate, only DC-9-80 (A6WE, all DC-9 models). I guess the "MD-80" is for marketing purpose only.  


And yes, it's been a good year for the 767.

[Edited 2007-03-07 20:50:03]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9194 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9570 times:

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Yet it wasn't silly for Mr Randy to group the sales of the B747-100/200/SP/300/400/800.

I think as somemone has already stated, or make that several people... they are one family of aircraft operating under one contract. I am sure the A319, 320, and 321 in the narrow body category, I am sure THOSE operate under one contranct... as do the A342 - 343 - 345 - and 346 I am sure...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9525 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 17):

I think the FAA would agree with you there. Two different type certificate:
A330 - A46NM
A340 - A43NM

Why do you think that is? One has to comply to TWIN ENGINE ( ETOPS) rules, while the other does not

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
Ohhh, here we go again. Yeah sure The A-300, A-310, A330, and A-340 are four different types, serving four different markets. 3 of the 4 have seperate certifications. All B-747s operate from the same certification, updated for each model.

So we can agree that the B748i/F is a 40 year design? Or is it an all new model for marketing purposes?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):

What rock do you live under? Have you ever heard of the DC-3? Have you ever heard of the B-737? Have you ever heard of the A-320?

While I'm not familiar with the history of the DC-3, I know that a great part was for military use and not for commercial operations.

I'm not sure you read my quote correctly but the A320-200 series (not family) is in fact the best sold airplane in commercial aviation history.

Regards,
Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
25 SEPilot : Regardless of how you want to class them, I think the 767 is remarkable for the length of time it has been in production without an upgrade and is sti
26 787engineer : I think he read it as A330-200 not A320-200, which is probably why he also mentioned the A320. I read it as A330-200 the first time too.
27 Post contains links and images KC135TopBoom : Yes, it is.......don't ya just love it? The A-320 Series has 5,025 orders and deliveries, total. http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a320/ The
28 N328KF : As worded, this is incorrect as the DC-3 and some Soviet types easily take this crown.
29 DelawareUSA : To sell a 27 year old B767 at a slight discount is good bussiness sense. Its design has been paid for. That facts are that on a per seat mile cost, th
30 Easyfriday2000 : I know that Air canada leased some a 330's and a couple 340's but now we are getting rid of them and keeping the 767 we have had all along. Got to be
31 TrijetsRMissed : I think the MD-87/88 share a separate rating from the rest of the family. The original MD-81/82/83s were changed from DC-9-80's for marketing purpose
32 FutureUALpilot : IIRC, the 764 was designed soley as a DC-10/L1011 replacement for CO/DL respectively, not as a direct competitor to the A33X series, so while it may n
33 JAAlbert : Absolutely hilarious post! How we can turn a simple little comment about a great airplane and turn it into a mega A vs B battle of the Atlantic is jus
34 SansVGs : Another A vs. B thread, Great... I have flown both, and here is the 411: A: Pilots love them. They require very little work to fly. The environmentals
35 AvObserver : Neither, really. The changes from the older 747-100/200/300 to the -400 series alone were extensive, even while based on the old fuselage. The change
36 Starlionblue : Not really different from a technical standpoint. They are built on the same line and apart from the 340NG are basically the same aircraft with diffe
37 Manni : That's indeed a lot of hot air. Mr. Baseler is comparing the orders for all 767 models (762, 763, 764 and 767F) of which the first have been flying i
38 Multimark : I believe AC only took on one extra A340 to deal with a widebody shortage? And there were some 767's which are now leaving the fleet, as it would be
39 Justloveplanes : From Randy's Blog: "You know, the 767 is the original king of point-to-point. It’s still a very popular size airplane for opening up new long-haul n
40 Airways45 : Is this still true? I know it certainly used to be the case, but I would have thought the use of 777s and A330s has reduced the use of 767s displacin
41 SSTsomeday : It's a highly modified and updated platform, to be more specific. Since it's inception; new wings, engines, avionics, interiors, additional capacity,
42 EI321 : Its not possible to hold both on the same cert due to the different engines count.
43 Post contains links EI321 : The 767 has lower CASMs than the A330? Then what will you do when the 767 is no longer around? Its my fav layout also. The 787s wont replace the 767s
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QX Named ATW's Regional Airline Of The Year posted Sat Jan 27 2007 00:28:33 by Jetboy319
Horizon ATW Regional Of The Year posted Fri Jan 26 2007 18:35:57 by Dash8tech
ANA Named Airline Of The Year - A T W posted Fri Jan 26 2007 15:56:36 by Lumberton
Scott Hamilton Says Forgeard "Man Of The Year" posted Mon Jan 22 2007 22:03:07 by Pygmalion
Alan R. Mulally Is AW&ST's Person Of The Year posted Mon Jan 1 2007 23:42:49 by Leelaw
Randy's 2006 Wrapup - Deck The Halls posted Thu Dec 21 2006 18:45:51 by BrettFromCLT