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JNB-JFK Nonstops In The Past - Which Planes?  
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3284 times:

If I remember correctly there were times when SAA had scheduled nonstop flights between Jo'burg and New York. Not sure whether they were also nonstop westbound, but at least eastbound they were.

Which airplanes were used for that? 747-400? A340-600? A340-200? A340-400?

Can someone also give me a little historic overview of the JNB-New York nonstops, why the stops were made scheduled stops rather than tech stops on an as-needed basis, and why both the IAD and the JFK flights route through DKR rather than having one of them go through ACC or another West African airport (IIRC the Washington flight was first routed through ACC).

Any other future destinations for SAA in the USA?

Thanks

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Starting in May South African will start nonstop flights to JFK with the A340-300, ditching the DKR stop.

I believe when the A340-600 flew to JFK last summer it was nonstop in one direction with a stop in DKR in the other.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
Starting in May South African will start nonstop flights to JFK with the A340-300, ditching the DKR stop.

I believe when the A340-600 flew to JFK last summer it was nonstop in one direction with a stop in DKR in the other.

Really? All I can see in the reservation systems are nonstop flights from IAD to JNB. Flights to IAD from JNB still stop in DKR. Flights to and from JFK all route through Dakar. But then maybe that source is not correct.


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting Mozart (Reply 2):
Really? All I can see in the reservation systems are nonstop flights from IAD to JNB. Flights to IAD from JNB still stop in DKR. Flights to and from JFK all route through Dakar. But then maybe that source is not correct.

According to Amadeus there is still one stop as well.

I can't remember my source but I believe it was posted here on Airliners.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineJj From Algeria, joined Jun 2001, 1227 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

I remember reading an article a LONG time ago in Airways, in which they flew the 744 JFK-JNB non stop...

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

Quoting Mozart (Thread starter):
A340-400?

Definately not that one, given that it doesn't exist

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
Starting in May South African will start nonstop flights to JFK with the A340-300, ditching the DKR stop.

Yeah, that wont happen because it can't happen.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Quoting Mozart (Thread starter):
If I remember correctly there were times when SAA had scheduled nonstop flights between Jo'burg and New York. Not sure whether they were also nonstop westbound, but at least eastbound they were.

Which airplanes were used for that?

?

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?



Delete this User
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25170 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Quoting Jj (Reply 4):
I remember reading an article a LONG time ago in Airways, in which they flew the 744 JFK-JNB non stop...

I believe many of those flights made a fuel stop at Ilha do Sal (SID) in the Cape Verde islands off the west coast of Africa, especially westbound, both due to the usual headwinds in that direction plus JNB's high altitude.

In earlier days all SA 747-200 flights JFK-JNB stopped at SID in both directions (I made that trip about 1976 and clearly remember the stop at SID in the middle of the night both ways). Many SA flights to/from Europe also made fuel stops at SID during the Apartheid period when they weren't permitted to overfly the rest of Africa. That's why SA bought their 747SPs to avoid the need for the SID stop en route to/from Europe when they had to fly around the "hump" of Africa.

[Edited 2007-03-08 01:38:51]

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

SA utilized low-capacity 744s for their nonstop flights between the USA and South Africa.

Their ship "The Great North" for a long time held the record for longest scheduled commercial nonstop flight time, set on its ATL-JNB nonstop segment (which until SIN-LAX was the longest ever scheduled commercial nonstop flight distance)


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User currently offlineHinckley From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

I don't have all the answers, but SAA historically flew 744s non-stop eastbound from JFK to JNB and from ATL to both JNB and CPT. Westbound, all of the flights did a tech stop at SID. SID is an airport with a long SAA history dating back to the apartheid days when SAA was not allowed to overfly any African countries and needed a refueling point for both their European and North American routes.

Around the same time as they switched to 340s on the Atlantic routes, they began the west African stops, first at DKR and ACC and then at DKR only. My understanding is that although the 346 has the legs for eastbound non-stops, SAA wanted the additional revenue of DKR passengers. I know that a lot of the long-time SA passengers aren't too happy with the DKR stop, from both the perspective of longer travel time as well as perceived safety concerns.

Btw, at one point, SAA flew FLL - JNB. I'm sure it was non-stop eastbound, but I'm not so sure about the westbound routeing.

[Edited 2007-03-08 01:24:34]

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Quoting Hinckley (Reply 9):
Btw, at one point, SAA flew FLL - JNB. I'm sure it was non-stop eastbound, but I'm not so sure about the westbound routeing.

routing was JNB-CPT-FLL-ATL-JNB


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Quoting Hinckley (Reply 9):
My understanding is that although the 346 has the legs for eastbound non-stops

Actually, the reason why they apparently stopped it in both directions was because they wanted extra cargo revenue on the ATL-JNB leg.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
Yeah, that wont happen because it can't happen.

I believe the Airbus A340-300E does have the range to fly JNB-JFK nonstop, no?

I'm 99% sure I read on airliners a couple of months ago that SA would be going nonstop on the route.

However since Amadeus is still showing one stop I guess the source was wrong.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6822 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

The JFK-JNB nonstop (eastward only) started around 1992 with the 744-- it was the longest-mileage scheduled nonstop up until then.

User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3619 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 12):
I'm 99% sure I read on airliners a couple of months ago that SA would be going nonstop on the route.

For the love of god, don't believe everything you read on here.



PHX based
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 12):
I believe the Airbus A340-300E does have the range to fly JNB-JFK nonstop, no?

No, it doesn't. JNB is too high up, particularly on hot days, for that. If it was flying from Cape Town, it wouldn't be an issue, but JNB is a whole different ball of wax



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
No, it doesn't. JNB is too high up, particularly on hot days, for that. If it was flying from Cape Town, it wouldn't be an issue, but JNB is a whole different ball of wax

Oh ok, I see.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 14):
For the love of god, don't believe everything you read on here.

Believe me, I don't.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2911 times:

JFK - JNB was supposed to go nonstop this May, but that has been put on hold, along with the proposed service to ORD.

User currently offlineUmhlanga From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 128 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Quoting Willyj (Reply 17):
JFK - JNB was supposed to go nonstop this May, but that has been put on hold, along with the proposed service to ORD.

Correct. Because the announced ORD service has been postponed indefinitely, and because the IAD-JNB service is now nonstop (at least until the warmer weather hits Washington in the northern summer, when the flight is expected to revert to one-stop), SAA needed to find a way to get USA-DKR passengers to DKR. So the JFK flights will not become one-stop. They will instead stop in DKR.

I wish SAA would just drop the west African stops (regardless of where they take place). As SAA admitted when they announced the IAD-JNB nonstop, the west African stops add nearly 3 hours to the trip. (And they disrupt sleep.) When I flew IAD-DKR-JNB and return this past August, very few passengers deplaned & boarded in DKR. Obviously that was just 2 flights, so I can't speak for loads as a whole. Plus, in the past year SAA have had to switch the west African stopover point from DKR to SID for two periods of several days each, due to strikes by fuel haulers & airport workers at DKR - not exactly helpful to SAA.


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

I hope DL start nonstop from JFK with 777LR.

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