Detroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7751 times:
So NW is eventually going to get their 787's and im wondering what routes you guys think they will use these planes for.
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7338 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7674 times:
DTW-BEY
DTW-DXB
DTW-HKG
LAX-HKG
LAX-MNL
MSP-CDG
MEM-LGW(LHR)Should the OS treaty be ratified
SEA-LGW(LHR) " " " " " "
SFO-PVG
HNL-MNL
BOS-BOM
SEA-BLR
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7659 times:
Beijing's code is PEK, standing for its former name, Peking.
NW stated that its first 787 route will be DTW-JFK-NRT-JFK-DTW in 2008.
Though they have not announced anything further yet, I predict more point to points in Europe and Asia. NW is the only airline today to still have a strict hub based route structure. This concept died off in the 80s, but NW held on to it, just like the DC-9s. (aren't people sick of always having to go through DTW, MSP, AMS, and NRT?)
JohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1621 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7635 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 2): NW is the only airline today to still have a strict hub based route structure. This concept died off in the 80s, but NW held on to it, just like the DC-9s.
If anything, Continental's route structure is more hub-based than NW's. I can think of very few, if any, Continental flights outside their hub structure. Northwest at least has Asia service from PDX, SEA, and LAX, and will soon have transatlantic service from Hartford. Plenty of new hubs were created in the 1980s so the concept was far from dying by then.
Georgiabill From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 545 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7627 times:
N908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 848 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7593 times:
Here's hoping they try and get the 787 scheduled into MSP sooner rather than later.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
Ejmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7575 times:
MEM-NRT
MEM-LGW
MEM-CDG
MEM-GRU
MEM-EZE
MEM-SYD
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
San747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4936 posts, RR: 13 Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7562 times:
SAN-NRT... Which could be done by either NW or NH.
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7338 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7469 times:
SFO/LAX-AMS would be tough since KLM already serves it
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 3): If anything, Continental's route structure is more hub-based than NW's.
Very true. Bit by bit we're getting away from the 3 hub concept, with IND being a focus city, growing little by little. I wish we would do it in the west.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 9, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7445 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 2): NW is the only airline today to still have a strict hub based route structure.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 10, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7368 times:
I will post mine....
JFK-NRT (Already stated by NW)
BOS-BOM (
MSP-NGO (I want this one...it was rumored that NW might turn it into a mini-hub like KIX was in the 1990s)
DTW-HKG (But this could be a 744)
SEA-MNL (US-Manila non-stop first. But as JetJack says...HNL-MNL might do better)
MEM-NRT (Hub-Hub)
DTW-ICN (Skyteam-Skyteam)
SEA-BOM (IT)
SEA-SYD (heck they have to go back someday)
If NW gets a non-stop option to China it will be with a 744. They will need the capacity. Even HKG could be a 744 it all depends on if ORD-HKG increases with Oasis or CX/AA.
Quoting San747 (Reply 7): SAN-NRT... Which could be done by either NW or NH.
IMO NH has a better shot than NW. They will have more room to move around in Japan than NW.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7358 times:
Quoting JohnJ (Reply 3): If anything, Continental's route structure is more hub-based than NW's. I can think of very few, if any, Continental flights outside their hub structure. Northwest at least has Asia service from PDX, SEA, and LAX, and will soon have transatlantic service from Hartford. Plenty of new hubs were created in the 1980s so the concept was far from dying by then.
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9): I'm not familiar with any P2P flying by United...
What I meant was NW channeling ALL its Asian traffic through NRT, regardless of what origin or destination, and NW channeling most of its European traffic through AMS, regardless of origin or destination. That is a kind of system that doesn't work well now days, and its a system that no other airline practices.
Detroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7269 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 2): NW stated that its first 787 route will be DTW-JFK-NRT-JFK-DTW in 2008.
dont disagree with what you are saying, but how does this routing even make sense??? you first fly from detroit eastwards to JFK, then you fly westwards over detroit and into NRT.??? Would'nt it make much more sense to see detroit be the middle man here???
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7245 times:
Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 12): dont disagree with what you are saying, but how does this routing even make sense??? you first fly from detroit eastwards to JFK, then you fly westwards over detroit and into NRT.??? Would'nt it make much more sense to see detroit be the middle man here???
It all part of NorthWest's silly route structure, which I have been criticizing. People who want to go from USA to Asia on NW have to go on one of the following: LAX-NRT-Asia, SFO-NRT-Asia, PDX-NRT-Asia, SEA-NRT-Asia, MSP-NRT-Asia, or DTW-NRT-Asia. They want to restart JFK-NRT-Asia. So, in order to put the aircraft physically in JFK, they need to fly it in from one of their hubs. So, DTW-JFK serves as simply a domestic flight, carrying domestic passengers. Then, the airlines will use the same aircraft to do the JFK-NRT.
Coronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1011 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7227 times:
Where is MSP HKG? this is a natural routing to support Target and Best Buy and Polaroid Petters Group etc all of which have their HQ in MSP, to serve their purchasing depts who love HK as a hub for their forays to visit their China vendors.
John
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
Deltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1590 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7180 times:
Isn't the 787 for SUPER long thin routes? Couldn't the A330s serve LAX-AMS/FRA (don't even know why FRA is in there but for sake of argument) DTW-HNL, MEM-NRT, MEM-LGW as some of you have suggested? Don't get what's special for the 787 if they are put on those routes.
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7163 times:
Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 15): Isn't the 787 for SUPER long thin routes? Couldn't the A330s serve LAX-AMS/FRA (don't even know why FRA is in there but for sake of argument) DTW-HNL, MEM-NRT, MEM-LGW as some of you have suggested? Don't get what's special for the 787 if they are put on those routes.
Yes, the 787 is marketed for long, thin routes by Boeing. However, That doesn't mean it has to fly long thin routes all the time. People use 777-200ERs on 2 hour flights. Nothing wrong.
NW simply wanted a plane that could seat ~220-230 people. So, they ordered the 787. They could use the 220-230 seater anywhere in their system.
Twolz2rn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7094 times:
I could honestly see a DTW-Middle Eastern destination since only RJ is currently the only airline that has service directly to the Middle East, even if it is 2 or 3 times per week. Doesnt detroit have one of the largest Arab populations in the US?
AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5834 posts, RR: 23 Reply 18, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7076 times:
There is an aweful lot of SFO servive on your list. United has SFO well covered and I think NW would have a lot of trouble putting people on these flight. UA has feed from some +30 cities to feed 9-10 Asia flights daily. SFO will not be needed by NW when they can build their Int'l network from MSP/DTW. Specially MSP which lacks Int'l service now, using a 787 for long thin markets from MSP is perfect.
KaiTak is correct. NW did say this. It makes sense. Remember its not like positioning a 744 DTW-JFK. Its a smaller A/C. If timed right it could go with a decent load I would think, but allow for easy A/C rotation thru DTW for mx.
ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
Phishphan70 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7048 times:
Quoting AS739X (Reply 18): There is an aweful lot of SFO servive on your list. United has SFO well covered and I think NW would have a lot of trouble putting people on these flight. UA has feed from some +30 cities to feed 9-10 Asia flights daily. SFO will not be needed by NW when they can build their Int'l network from MSP/DTW. Specially MSP which lacks Int'l service now, using a 787 for long thin markets from MSP is perfect.
i agree. but i think over time, as routes develop durring the use of the 787, SFO could prove profitable on "long thin routes" direct to other parts of the world that have grown to be niche foreign markets for NW....HELLOW SFO-BOM.......
AS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5834 posts, RR: 23 Reply 20, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7036 times:
Agreed, but I dont know if NW is the one to do it. They don't seem to concerned with SFO. If they were to build up some presence, then I could see it. But by the time they got to SFO-BOM, others will be doing it most likely.
ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
seriously ??? I mean... seriously ??? where do you figure that from ??...
I really cant figure how you can come to that... if anything I thought NW was moving away from Memphis ??...
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2210 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6997 times:
Quoting AS739X (Reply 18): There is an aweful lot of SFO servive on your list. United has SFO well covered and I think NW would have a lot of trouble putting people on these flight. UA has feed from some +30 cities to feed 9-10 Asia flights daily. SFO will not be needed by NW when they can build their Int'l network from MSP/DTW. Specially MSP which lacks Int'l service now, using a 787 for long thin markets from MSP is perfect.
So you recommend NW stick to only DTW and MSP for all their lives? That's kind of boring I think The 787 would allow them to look at other cities in he U.S. They could open routes that other U.S. carriers don't do. (LAX-HKG for example, or LAX-MNL)
True they don't have domestic feed from airport besides DTW and MSP, but as sated before, they already do international flights from LAX, SFO, PXD, SEA, BOS, and a couple more I think. So, code shares on domestic routes with SkyTeam members could be done.
By the way, They have a SFO-NRT flight as of now. I think it is a A330.
DTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1424 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6918 times:
2008 will be an exciting time at DTW. The arrival of the new North Terminal along with the 787. Hopefully I can get a WorldPerks ticket onboard one no matter where the destination is.
AirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 416 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (6 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6829 times:
Quoting Centrair (Reply 10): SEA-MNL (US-Manila non-stop first. But as JetJack says...HNL-MNL might do better)
Very interesting. Although MNL makes money for NW (according to previous A.net threads), I can't see these routes on the top 10 priority list for NWA. Is the profitability of the existing MNL routes that high?
25 Af773atmsp: Here are my guesses: MSP-CDG (or A330) MSP-KIX MSP-HKG MSP-MNL MSP-DUB MSP-SYD
26 STT757: Narita- Portland Seattle San Francisco Minneapolis
27 Af773atmsp: NW already has MSP-NRT-MSP service. I forgot to add MSP-FRA.
28 PSU.DTW.SCE: A lot of these are so far out in left field its rediculous. Plus a lot of the others, if started would be flown with the A330. Remember that the A330-
29 Flyorski: Will the 787 replace both the 747-200 and A330s? or will it mostly add new routes?
30 NASCARAirforce: I'd rather go through DTW than JFK or LAX. At least my transfer flight would be in the same building and in a much nicer, newer terminal. I guess Nor
32 Zone1: SEA-HKG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, with UA dropping the NRT-HKG route, SEA-HKG is wide open. The 787 is the perfect plane for this route.
33 Falstaff: yes I agree and I am looking forward to it.
34 TOLtommy: Yep when the first regional jets came out, nobody foresaw them flying close to 3 hours either.....
35 SJCRRPAX: I'll say it again at the risk of the SFO people telling me I'm nuts, but there is no need for this flight, its PAX load would be identical if it was
36 Floridaflyboy: Cool, there will be a domestic segment with it!!! That will be NW's first widebody domestic service in a while (except hawaii). It would definitely b
37 Phishphan70: regarding NRT, all these cities are already offered by NW odd you'd bring that up, because i live in Palo Alto, right in Santa Clara Co. so your comm
38 EXAAUADL: Dont think youll ever see DTW-MNL nonstop. NW needs a real big plane for MNL thanks to low yields and massive VFR baggage and cargo. NRT-MNL makes sen
39 FlyDreamliner: DTW - HKG is realistic. DTW-DXB is possible. LAX-HKG will more than likely stay on the 744 LAX-MNL won't happen for NW. MSP-CDG will be on A330 MEM-L
40 Jetjack74: 3 years ago, about 20 percent of our BOS-AMS traffic continued on to India according to our year-end financial report. I think it could be a real pos
41 Carpethead: Isn't NW adding a few additional weekend frequencies with the A332. While double daily might not happen 10/11 weeklies particularly during the summer
42 EVA777SEA: Minneapolis - Yea right, that flight will stay a 744 Seattle - SEA-NRT is not going to be downgraded... I don't know what the load are like on PDX-NR
43 Eskimo1: I agree that this would be a great move for NW. With all of the cuts that were implemented in the last few years out of SEA by both UA and NW, there
44 Kaitak744: Really? How do they get the 747s to NRT? For routes like LAX-NRT, isn't it DTW-LAX-NRT? or does NW actually have 747s based in NRT??
45 Af773atmsp: These are likely to happen: MSP-FRA (A330) MSP-CDG (A330) MSP-HKG MSP-KIX Routes I dream would happen: MSP-DUB (A330) MSP-SYD MSP-Milan MSP-Rome
46 Lexy: Totally off subject, but why are they doing this???
47 Baron52ta: Why are there so many saying MEM routes, last I heard NWA is still thinking about pulling out of MEM so why would they even consider using a new aircr
49 Detroitflyer: how does that make a bos-india route a possibility. In theory, according to your information, they would only see 20 % of their currenlt BOS-AMS load
50 TwoLz2Rn: If NW were to choose a Middle Eastern destination it would be between DTW-DXB, BEY and AMM
51 Floridaflyboy: The aircraft are either based in NRT or LAX (I think NRT). I think at one point they did operate some 747 domestic service like you mentioned above,
52 Kaitak744: Wow, I never knew that. I think NW is the only airline in the world to have its aircraft based in another country other than its own.
53 Jano: I believe they used to have a spare DC10 parked at AMS.
54 Floridaflyboy: Yeah, it's definitely a unique concept. NW has some 757's and A330's based over there, too, I believe.
55 Phishphan70: not only great idea for NW, but like mentioned, atleast 1 757 and a couple of A330's are based in AMS. which gives not only NW options if something b
56 PSU.DTW.SCE: Only aircraft that are based outside of the US are the 757's in NRT. Even then, they are rotated back to the US every couple of months. First of all
57 Bobnwa: NWA's 747's are not based at either NRT or LAX. NWA does not have A330's based outside the U.S. As PSU.DTW.SCE stated thye only aircraft based outsid
58 PavlovsDog: I can see them adding some flights from Tokyo to Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore. Connecting traffic as well as O/D from Tokyo could make them very profit
59 RwSEA: Those all make sense, with the exception of GRU. First, the US-Brazil bilateral is just about maxed out so there isn't room for a second carrier. Sec
60 Detroitflyer: mad/bcn = unlikely, beacuse there are so many other european destinations not served, and if this route ever started it would more than likely be wit
61 QXatFAT: What would be really awesome is that they get them in time and painted for the '08 Olympics and have a nice livery for the Olypmics and use the bird
62 Gunsontheroof: NW looked at tagging BLR onto NW34 (SEA-AMS) not that long ago...apparently it continues to BOM now, I had no idea. Either way, India's growing tech
63 Stirling: I don't see a U.S. Airline flying to Beirut for a very long time. Another flight to Amman? Why? I think Tel Aviv would make more sense. Even Cairo, b
64 LipeGIG: The main problem here is that NW need that more Brazilian Airlines begin services Brazil-UK (at least more 3) to justify a new player on this profita
65 JetBlueLuv: no, NW isn't thinking about pulling out of MEM...they're primarily maintaining it at its current size. Perhaps MEM-CDG or MEM-LGW will happen due to
66 RwSEA: Well, NW's major city on the West Coast is SEA, which has almost zero O&D to South America and is about as poor a geographic location as you can find
67 5mileBob: If one quickly notices, most, if not all of the replies are international routes. Yes the B787 will have terrific range, but there are many domestic r
68 Stirling: Good point....the regional jets have not yet taken over ALL domestic routes.....that I know of. I'd suppose any of the markets that have seen NW DC-1
69 Lexy: Actually, I think Nashville, Tennessee shares in that with the largest Kurdish population in the USA outside of NYC and one other I believe.
70 Af773atmsp: Possible 787 domestic routes: MSP-MCO DTW-MCO DTW-HNL
71 Hjulicher: I think that DTW will be the base for the 787's so most of the flying will be originating out of there. It exciting to see NW expand internationally,
72 SJCRRPAX: Not sure you want to do that. The idea is to fly with as small amount of fuel as possible. If you want to fly short distance you want MAX Cargo, MAX
73 Burnsie28: No 744's would fly for example, DTW-NRT-PVG-NRT-LAX etc. They cancelled MAD shortly before it was to be started because of either 9/11 or fuel soarin
74 Floridaflyboy: Haha. Good one. ALthough it would be nice to see a widebody (other than the UPS A300) in BIL for a change
75 Gigneil: My dollars say we don't see a 787 in Europe at all for quite a few many years. NS
77 VC10DC10: [hairsplitting]These two reasons are pretty tightly interconnected, or so it seems to me[/hairsplitting]. Either way, the route surprises me a little
78 VC10DC10: These all look interesting and exciting. If Northwest finds itself pleased with sending 757s across the Atlantic, is it possible that they might conv
79 FUN2FLY: When are NW's 787's coming online in 2008? I think ANA is first at May/June 08. CO end of 2009. Not sure of NW.
80 Nwab787techops: If they are on time, NW 787 will come to NWA around Aug.2008 and start flying PAXs in Nov. (ish) 2008.
81 Hjulicher: When NW exits BK, do you think NW will exercise all of its option for additional frames. There has been a lot of speculation that NW will increase its
82 Floridaflyboy: My opinion is they probably will. Maybe not immediately, but eventually.
83 5mileBob: Understood. However, I had been on a number of "snowbird" DC-10 flights where NWA "tankered" fuel. The aircraft were able to make quick turns and hea
84 Dutchdragon: Well, since I live in Seattle (SEA) myself, I guess I gotta put my "2 cents" in as well, since they have a hub (or at least a "spoke" here :-P). I hop
85 EVA777SEA: ^^^ haha! I wish!!!!! The only routes up there that would probably come true would be SEA-KIX and SEA-HKG.
87 Jano: DTW-PRG to connect 2 SkyTeam hubs and get some codesharing going on between NW and OK.
88 Burnsie28: I believe it was stated October for start of operations.
89 Detroitflyer: agreed, the a-330's and even the 757's can handle this. not sure exactly.....my next bet for european destinations served from detroit non- stop are
90 VC10DC10: As a Twin Citian myself, it would be rather nice to have nonstop service to Vietnam and Somalia, but I'm pretty sure that there's no way the O&D (hec
91 Azjubilee: Since this thread has gone off the deep end, I thought I'd add some of my predictions for the NWA 787. ALO-BKK TVF-SGN ERI-FLR DLH-GPZ-SYD IGM-SJU DFW
92 VC10DC10: BOM and India = yes, eventually. Middle East (e.g., DXB) = strong possibility. Africa = no way in heck. I'm still convinced that NW will at least try
93 Centrair: SEA-NGO is a real possiblity. NH was/is deeply considering NGO-SEA mainly due to the Aviation and High-tech industry connections. (rumor is to be don
94 Gunsontheroof: Think about it. Who's getting the first 787s? I put my money on NGO-SEA with said carrier by the end of '09.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 375 posts, 
From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, 
From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1086 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
