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JetBlue's Pullback Stokes Fears Over Fares  
User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1294 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/07068/768035-37.stm

C'mon PIT people. We're pulling together for the Pens, Lets pull together for the local air market and B6 too. We need the business traveler to look beyond their FF perks. A market only gets so many chances and we have had more than our fare share. If we dont get our sh@t together we have no one else to blame but ourselves.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7485 times:

I'm with you. Don't screw this up......AGAIN and let USAIR jack the prices up again. Start supporting the other carriers.

User currently offlineAtlaaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7376 times:

Totally saw this coming. Since my move to this part of the country I have been flying in and out of PIT a couple of times a month and while talking to other travelers I quickly discovered that jetBlue has not caught on around here. They also got A LOT of bad local press that stuck during their fiasco in February (I posted about this fear in another thread).

I must say though that I don't like the blame US is taking for this. I personally am not a fan of US and don't fly them, but c'mon lowering prices to beat your competition is the name of the game . . . it's business. Also that is one of the beauty's of being a legacy carrier with a larger route structure. You can cut fares where the competition is and raise fares on your other routes to make up for it.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7352 times:

I would much rather pay more to support US than fly an airline that offers 1 fllight per day, and has chronic problems with being late.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineTooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 306 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7213 times:

Its not just bad press, but it doesn't seam like JetBlue has really made a significant push here. Maybe they thought it would be easy, so they didn't even have to try. Hopefully, now that will change and there will be some more significant advertising.

I flew them last time I was in BOS and the flight was pretty full, but it was a Sunday afternoon.

Also, I though the quote about the biz traveler who was worried about fares was particularly indicative of this situation. He was only worried about his flight on US becoming more expensive, so he relies on B6 to keep fares low, but sticks with US when they are.


User currently offlinePgh234 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 796 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7004 times:

I'm giving my hard earned spring break dollar to B6 next week for PIT-SJU. I havn't flown US for three years now! haha Freedom is great.

-pgh234

[Edited 2007-03-09 17:26:03]

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4514 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

According to the article, JetBlue currently offers 4x PIT-JFK and 2x PIT-BOS. They are temporarily ending the second Boston flight, and are restoring it on May 1. How is that a "pullback?" The article isn't clear.

But it seems to me if they do want to compete effectively with US they probably need at least three flights on PIT-BOS for business travelers. It's not a heavy leisure route, and probably moderate VFR at most. Also, unlike JFK, there won't be connecting traffic on the route. How much is JetBlue advertising in Pittsburgh? What kind of promotions are they running? Pittsburgh's mixed history with low-fare carriers is well-known. JetBlue may need to push harder if they want to establish themselves on a strictly O & D mostly-business route at PIT.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 6):
How much is JetBlue advertising in Pittsburgh? What kind of promotions are they running?

None that I am aware of. That being said perhaps they are doing some things to help drive business but obviously someone who travels a lot of and is very observant in the industry does not see this, then they are doing something wrong.


User currently offlineTooluther From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 306 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6684 times:

there are (used to be) adds in the two major papers, and especially in the Business Times. In addition I used to see billboards with the "Dear Pittsburgh..." stuff, but I haven't recently.

User currently offlineB6sfinest From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6653 times:

For a long time Jetblue didnt spend alot of money on advertising. It was pretty much word of mouth which is always an effective way of getting known, good or bad. But now that we are flying to twice as many cities, especially cities like PIT that are stuck on Usairways that would rather pay a high price, than fly on a airline with new aircraft, friendly customer service, and all the things that come with it like TVs XM radio, more legroom, oh yeah and good customer service, we have to advertise more like our Dear PIT billboard. Im not sure why its no longer there but that is what we are doing now. Its the Sincerly Jetblue campaign. Ofcourse all the Jetblue haters will jump on and say we cant run on time or the whole Valentines storm....blah blah blah, but we are and will become more aggresive with our advertising.

User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6528 times:

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 9):
For a long time Jetblue didnt spend alot of money on advertising. It was pretty much word of mouth which is always an effective way of getting known, good or bad. But now that we are flying to twice as many cities, especially cities like PIT that are stuck on Usairways that would rather pay a high price, than fly on a airline with new aircraft, friendly customer service, and all the things that come with it like TVs XM radio, more legroom, oh yeah and good customer service, we have to advertise more like our Dear PIT billboard. Im not sure why its no longer there but that is what we are doing now. Its the Sincerly Jetblue campaign. Ofcourse all the Jetblue haters will jump on and say we cant run on time or the whole Valentines storm....blah blah blah, but we are and will become more aggresive with our advertising.

I think you forgot to mention that your CEO has appeared on Letterman, but the US CEO has only appeared in a mugshot.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6373 times:

Quoting Flaps (Thread starter):
We need the business traveler to look beyond their FF perks

You give up your upgrades and bonus miles...

Quoting Flaps (Thread starter):
A market only gets so many chances and we have had more than our fare share.

for the leasure traveler sure, but for the business traveler, who cares? he's not footing the bill...

k, just had to play devils advocate...



Why do I fly???
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6249 times:

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 11):
but for the business traveler, who cares? he's not footing the bill...

But his or her company is, and you can bet that in today's cost-cutting world, most companies will look for the lowest fare...

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6070 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 3):
I would much rather pay more to support US than fly an airline that offers 1 fllight per day, and has chronic problems with being late.

I really wanted to just ignore your blatant disregard for facts, but I couldn't resist. As posted above, jetBlue offers multiple flights a day out of PIT to JFK and BOS, and the BOS scaleback is for a few months only. Though I don't know for sure, I'd guess this pullback is to account for the E190s going out for maintenence.

As to the chronic late problems... JFK is a tough airport and the February fiasco was certaintly detrimental to the airline. However, it's a stretch to call it "chronic" as every airline suffers when the weather turns sour. If you tell me that your precious US has never suffered such a problem, then I'll ask for proof.

What it comes down to is that the PIT population bitches and moans about US Airways high fares... attracts good, solid airlines like jetBlue to come offer price relief, and then refuses to support that airline, even if it means paying a few bucks premium every now and then. It's a two way street, and PIT just doesn't seem to get it.

JBLU


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3308 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting Pgh234 (Reply 5):
I havn't flown US for three years now! haha Freedom is great.

Itr's about time to give them another try. They are NOT the same airline they were then.



.......
User currently offlineMcofreak From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5747 times:

Does WN seem to be having a problem at PIT?

User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1294 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 11):
You give up your upgrades and bonus miles...

I dont need to. I havent used US in over three years. Dont miss em a bit.


User currently offlineEskimo1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

More often than not, its the convenience of the schedule that attracts the business traveler. They make no money sitting around the terminal at JFK waiting for a connection. If US has a more convenient schedule, they WILL get the bulk of the business travelers.....time is money. I think US has done a prety good job with their restructuring and I actually enjoy flying them now....wish they could resolve the luggage situation permanently though.

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

Quoting Eskimo1 (Reply 18):
More often than not, its the convenience of the schedule that attracts the business traveler. They make no money sitting around the terminal at JFK waiting for a connection.

It's not even that. It's the time away from home and family.

There actually is, believe it or not, a very large group of people (refeered to as "pretty much everyone in the world except the A.Net folks  Smile ) who hate connections, etc. Regardless of miles, etc., they only care about being home and not spending all day in planes and airports.

Steve


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6808 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

What is a bit surprising is that the PIT-BOS loads for the first five full months of the service (July-November 2006) were very comparable to, if not slightly better than, the PIT-JFK loads (given twice the capacity to JFK). And the JFK flights were actually carrying proportionally more connecting traffic; in other words, there was a greater percentage of O&D traffic on the PIT-BOS flights.

User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Like another poster above mentioned, how is WN doing in PIT? How are loads on FL to ATL?

User currently offlineBN727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

You can lead horses to water but you can't make them drink...People in Pittsburg are like people in MSP. They hate the local airline for jacking prices. But like MSP..Sun Country attempts to bring low fares and suddenley Northwest drops fares on same routes and squashes Sun Country out of market. Fares thence skyrocket and Sun Country is forced to pull out as B6 is doing with Pittsburgh. Customers are very short sitted. The same happened in COS when WestPac had great fares and bully UAL squashed them along with bullies AA and CO....When will consumers ever figure out that if you want to keep low fares that you have to support the airline that brings low fares to the community. SWA can do that because of unlimited funds but others have a hard time....Competition is good to a point....Delta would still be gouging with crappy service out east if B6 hadn't started flying....SWA and UAL are attempting to kill F9 in DEN......Any denial is a lie....Going back to PIT...Locals will pay when B6 leaves...Southwest is only hope for rescue there...LOL

User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting Flaps (Thread starter):
We need the business traveler to look beyond their FF perks.

Ain't gonna happen. Too many allow themselves to become addicted beyond recovery to the "narcotics" of FF perks/giveaways and below-cost predatory fares used by the legacies to ensure customer "loyalty" when an honest competitor comes to town.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 1):
Don't screw this up......AGAIN and let USAIR jack the prices up again

But I thought it was the "restructured" legacies who were forcing the LCCs to offer lower fares? Or at least that is what we have been told repeatedly by legacy-lovers in this forum.

Quoting BN727 (Reply 21):
People in Pittsburg are like people in MSP. They hate the local airline for jacking prices. But like MSP..Sun Country attempts to bring low fares and suddenley Northwest drops fares on same routes and squashes Sun Country out of market.

Which simply suggests that people in both cities have allowed themselves to fall for and become addicted to the memory-purging, mind-altering "opiates" dispensed by legacy airlines.



Quoting Tooluther (Reply 4):
He was only worried about his flight on US becoming more expensive, so he relies on B6 to keep fares low,

And poetic justice will be served when, hopefully, along with others of his ilk, he (or the business on whose dime he travels) is gouged to the max by US when B6 goes away.

Quoting BN727 (Reply 21):
Customers are very short sitted.

As in short sighted? Or myopic? Which is indeed, exactly what they are. Which predictably happens when customers choose to allow themselves self to become addicted to the "drugs" (FF perks and below cost predatory fares) dispensed by the legacies whenever honest competition comes to town -- a reality not overlooked by the legacies. Another common side effect of such an addiction is vociferous whining and sniveling and a steadfast state of denial for culpability when the legacy to whose "drugs" they are addicted imposes massive fare increases along with capacity reductions on routes from which honest competition withdraws.



Quoting Eskimo1 (Reply 17):
I think US has done a prety good job with their restructuring and I actually enjoy flying them now....wish they could resolve the luggage situation permanently though.

Don't expect the luggage situation to be resolved anytime soon. Legacy airlines have discovered rather conclusively that there is an ample base of "loyal" customers will tolerate chronic poor service indefinitely so long as the airlines continue to dispense regular doses of memory-purging "narcotics" in the form of FF giveaways and loss leader fares to buy back the "loyalty" of customers subjected to poor service. And, if necessary, the costs of the giveaways and pricing schemes can be passed on to airline employees with another round of pay and benefit cuts.

If/when the people of PIT (and elsewhere) allow themselves to fall for the bait- of the same old same old disingenuous bait-and-switch games played by the legacies to buy their continued "loyalty," they will fully deserve the same old same old -switch (higher fares and mediocre -- or worse -- service) that invariably happens when honest competition is in effect told by the people of PIT (and elsewhere) to move on to better opportunities, leaving customers at the mercy of the legacy whose bait-and-switch they fell for, with the same predictable results. Bottom line is that they will fully deserve the high fares and mediocre -- at best -- service they love to complain about while, ironically, the ones who typically whine the loudest have no one to blame but themselves.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3047 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 22):
Too many allow themselves to become addicted beyond recovery to the "narcotics" of FF perks/giveaways

You are right in that there are definite advantages.

First off, I have access to the best and most skilled agents on the phone. With AA, for example, the agents dedicated to working with their top-tier elites are the best of the best -- absolutely brilliant. If something is at all possible, they will figure it out. In addition, being an elite means that sometimes there are strings which can be pulled -- all of which make my life easier.

But even the "never be stuck on hold waiting for the next agent" is worth a ton.

And in irregular operations, I know I'll be taken care of. Again, being able to call the EXP desk and not having to hold is a great advantage.

Being able to sit at the top of the standby list so I can get home earlier is also a very tangible benefit.

Being able to sit up front domestically and be more comfortable is a benefit.

Being able to not fly over the oceans in coach is a MAJOR benefit.

So what do I get for supporting jetBlue? Long times on hold, no priority, and getting blitzed in irregular operations. Sounds like a good way to spend a lot more time away from home to me!

If it costs a little extra for benefits, that's okay. When it's the night before Father's Day and you just want to get home early...it's all worth it.

Steve


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 23):
So what do I get for supporting jetBlue? Long times on hold, no priority, and getting blitzed in irregular operations. Sounds like a good way to spend a lot more time away from home to me!

Not that this thread has anything to do with this, but...

Since you've never experienced JetBlue (from the way that you describe that are an elite on another carrier), you cannot make a judgment with any credibility. I find JetBlue's hold times to be very low - most times I call I have to wait less than three minutes - that is, if I'm not directly connected to an agent first. It's true that there is no "priority", but we're talking about an airline that has a long list of awards for excellent customer service, so I don't know how much better "priority" service could be. And all airlines have problems during IROPS...

Did you see the articles on UA's 8-hour ground delay, where they booted their elite out of First Class and made them fly Coach due to an equipment change? So much for being the "priority" there.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
25 Tango-Bravo : Nonetheless, in the real world, for every FF member who is willing to pay higher fares for value-added services -- without complaining -- there are a
26 Tooluther : While I don't have real numbers to back this up (where do people pull those from anyways?) It seams like there are always lots of people at the FL ga
27 WorldTraveler : there is a cost to becoming established in a city... it involves flying often enough to the places people want to fly, distributing your product how p
28 Sllevin : I honestly think you are undervaluing what people feel their time and convienence is worth. And what they feel is a good value. Much like how Don Bur
29 HPAEAA : yeah.. but it depends on the corp travel... I'll admit at my company price can be an issue, however out of certain markets, we have preferred carrier
30 FCYTravis : there are advantages and disadvantages to each approach, and LCCs are not the be-all, end-all of air travel, as you seem to think they are. Let me kn
31 WesternA318 : But youd also be surprised at just how many companies avoid LCCs or niche airlines like B6 like the plague. Say your going to LAX or BKK or LGW...B6
32 Logos : Very well said. As enthusiasts on this board, we like variety. We enjoy seeing new airlines & new aircraft types come to our local airport. However,
33 Post contains images JetBluefan1 : I agree that JetBlue will not get you to a lot of destinations - though do keep in mind that code share partnerships are starting to pop up, such as
34 Cactus739 : I wouldn't be so proud of that Letterman appearance......all he said over and over again was "we're sorry it won't happen again".... felt bad for the
35 WesternA318 : I was using the PIT-Los Angeles market for an example. I was saying why would you do B6 to LGB (plus waiting in JFK AND in traffic in SoCal) to get t
36 JetBluefan1 : I know you were. But then again, not everyone going to LA or SoCal finds LAX to be the most convenient; perhaps LGB is more convenient, depending on
37 HPAEAA : It could, just think of all the hubs that those carriers serve from PIT... it all depends on where your business is so who knows....
38 WesternA318 : But again, those Elites will sacrifice a 40 minute connection to stay Elite...
39 Lemurs : If it gives you privledges that make it worth your while, yes...espc when tied with other services that airline provides. So once you're elite and bo
40 JetBluefan1 : Right. But if you're a UA elite who lives in PIT, and you need to get to JFK because you have a client in Jamaica, NY, you may just take JetBlue. UA
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