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DL: Still Interested In SLC-CDG In 2008, LGW?  
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7510 times:

Delta Air Lines still wants to eventually launch service to Europe from it's hub in SLC. While we've discussed this before for 2007 last fall, an article in this mornings Salt Lake Tribune got this rolling again:
http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_5391553
Here are the issues:
Does SLC really have a large enough O&D market to offer such a service?
Is CDG the best option for DL? Or if a route authority into LGW could be obtained (right now SLC isn't included on the U.S./U.K. bilateral--which would probably give BA first refusal on it), would that be better?
If LH can get PDX to work from FRA, would SLC be able to deal with such a flight given all the German tourists and skiers that show up throughout Utah during all seasons?


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7503 times:

I think the 763 would really struggle to get out of SLC on a hot summer day for CDG......Probably for pax and cargo the AF A340 is a better bet

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7433 times:
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Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
Does SLC really have a large enough O&D market to offer such a service?

Or the business market? The answer is pretty much a no and that's why DL will only start such a route if there is some sort of subsidy from the local govt /business community (as Whitehurst indicated in the article).


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

I have heard this won't happen for a while if at all.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7318 times:

well, if it's going to be SLC-CDG I just hope they won't use a 763ER.... old outdated a/c which I wouldn't really like for a flight this long...

but I guess a 764 doesn't have the range and otoh I doubt AF is going to start this route.... but still I'd really like to see an AF 332 IF this route happens... one can dream...  Wink



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User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7265 times:

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 4):
I just hope they won't use a 763ER.... old outdated a/c which I wouldn't really like for a flight this long...

but I guess a 764 doesn't have the range and otoh I doubt AF is going to start this route

So just how is a 763 old and outdated and a 764 is not? It is the same airframe with a few modifications. Same cabin width and same wing. The 764 has a newer interior, when compared to DL's 763s, but DL is upgrading its interiors. So how is it outdated? So once the interior upgrades are done, what's the big deal?



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineAirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Flights from SLC to CDG/LGW can also benefit from connecting pax, not just O&D. It would be one more option for passengers wanting to get to London from the west coast. If you did not want to connect in ATL, CVG, or JFK, you could go through SLC.

I'd gladly welcome an SLC-LGW flight.


User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7226 times:

Utah recieves ALOT of tourists from europe in both the summer for national parks etc and skiing in the winter so i think that plus the mormon missionaries plus the hub delta runs with connecting traffic are more than enough to fill 76s to paris, london, frankfurt.

If a route to europe with no tourists and no connecting traffic can work out of Portland it can work out of SALT LAKE CITY.

The thing that is holding dl back is the hot summer temperatures, the runway length, and they want a huge cash gurantee to start the route. i think dl is just waiting to get money because they know the city of slc will pay it. remember dl is locking down slc, atl and jfk as THE hubs. those are the future of delta. its better to have the cvg fligths to europe out of slc than cvg they are mostly connecting traffic from the west anyway. eastern people can be routed thru atl or jfk.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3452 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7222 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Thread starter):
Does SLC really have a large enough O&D market to offer such a service?
Is CDG the best option for DL?

The route does not have enough O&D but connections would be enough to make it work. It provides relatively easy connecting service to Europe from a number of cities without many other alternatives (though there are still other connections): BLI, GEG, PSC, BOI, BZN, IDA, JAC, RNO, FCA, EKO, CPR, HLN, BIL, EUG, SLE, etc. Not to mention service from large cities like SFO, SJC, OAK, SMF, PDX, SEA, YVR, LAS, PHX, LAX, ONT, SNA, SAN, etc. which would attract DL Skymiles members and frequent fliers. There are also the connections in CDG, so they service would have no problem working.

The service will likely be launched in summer of 2008. I don't see the 763ER having too much of an issue getting out of SLC on the 12,000 foot runway. The only issues would likely occur in the hottest summer days, when there would have to be some weight restrictions. Thank God SLC isn't as high as DEN though, then there'd really be problems.

Jeremy


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7217 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 5):
So just how is a 763 old and outdated and a 764 is not? It is the same airframe with a few modifications. Same cabin width and same wing. The 764 has a newer interior, when compared to DL's 763s, but DL is upgrading its interiors. So how is it outdated? So once the interior upgrades are done, what's the big deal?

well, for one the 764 cabin just "feels" nicer with the Boeing Signature interior... plus they have headrests in eco (don't know if they are gonna add them to the 763 as well?)...

and then of course, even if I will get flamed for that: the IFE.... the 764 and AFs 332 having AVOD (kinda AVOD in AFs case) whereas the 763ER has only the "big screen" - not even overhead screens.... and no signs this is gonna change soon...

besides, I just prefer AF over DL on intercontinental flights... imho they have a much better service (at least in Y, cannot judge about J) with free drinks etc. and if I'm not mistaken they also have more F/As on their flights for the same size of plane....



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User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 4):
well, if it's going to be SLC-CDG I just hope they won't use a 763ER.... old outdated a/c which I wouldn't really like for a flight this long...

but I guess a 764 doesn't have the range and otoh I doubt AF is going to start this route.... but still I'd really like to see an AF 332 IF this route happens... one can dream...

764's do have the range, but the route would/will be launched with a 763. Sorry.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

LGW will do better than CDG.


Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3452 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7193 times:

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 11):
LGW will do better than CDG.

From an O&D standpoint, but due to DL's alliance with AF, SLC-CDG is definitely the better choice.

Jeremy


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 10):
764's do have the range, but the route would/will be launched with a 763. Sorry.

no need to be sorry.... I don't need to fly that route if I don't want to.... there's still many possibility of connecting somewhere...  Smile



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User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7170 times:

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 4):
I guess a 764 doesn't have the range

764ER can do the route

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 4):
but still I'd really like to see an AF 332 IF this route happens

More likely to see it flown with an Abomination if AF were the ones opping such a route, as that aircraft's config is slightly more tailored toward a heavily-leisure op than is their A332.


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 14):
More likely to see it flown with an Abomination if AF were the ones opping such a route, as that aircraft's config is slightly more tailored toward a heavily-leisure op than is their A332.

with a WHAT?  Wink



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User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2887 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7108 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 7):
If a route to europe with no tourists and no connecting traffic can work out of Portland it can work out of SALT LAKE CITY.

Portland is LH's gateway to the US Pacific Northwest which arguably draws just it's fair share of tourism. Stating "no tourists" is selling it short. In terms of connecting traffic - lest you forget LH's Frankfurt hub.

Not saying SLC-CDG couldn't work, but let's not compare to PDX. Two different markets altogether.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 8):
The route does not have enough O&D but connections would be enough to make it work. It provides relatively easy connecting service to Europe from a number of cities without many other alternatives (though there are still other connections): BLI, GEG, PSC, BOI, BZN, IDA, JAC, RNO, FCA, EKO, CPR, HLN, BIL, EUG, SLE, etc. Not to mention service from large cities like SFO, SJC, OAK, SMF, PDX, SEA, YVR, LAS, PHX, LAX, ONT, SNA, SAN, etc. which would attract DL Skymiles members and frequent fliers. There are also the connections in CDG, so they service would have no problem working.

I would think the economic models would have to lean towards stonrger O&D to make a long haul flight like SLC-CDG to work. Every connecting passengers dilutes the yield. Most likely DL isn't counting on the mountain communities to fills this flight although the incremental traffic would help.

SFO, LAX, SEA Elites will most likely opt for AF non-stops (which DL code-shares) They can still get their miles. Naturally they will cash in those miles for free tickets to Europe via SLC.


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7089 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 8):
The route does not have enough O&D but connections would be enough to make it work. It provides relatively easy connecting service to Europe from a number of cities without many other alternatives (though there are still other connections): BLI, GEG, PSC, BOI, BZN, IDA, JAC, RNO, FCA, EKO, CPR, HLN, BIL, EUG, SLE, etc. Not to mention service from large cities like SFO, SJC, OAK, SMF, PDX, SEA, YVR, LAS, PHX, LAX, ONT, SNA, SAN, etc. which would attract DL Skymiles members and frequent fliers. There are also the connections in CDG, so they service would have no problem working.

Well that might be true to a point, but at the same time, most of these cities already have one-stop service to Europe via SEA, MSP, LAX, or others. I don't understand why people from places like Southern California, the Bay Area, or Pacific Northwest could choose SLC as a connecting point when there are already multiple nonstops to Europe from these areas (and all have nonstop service to Paris as it is).

Consider the following scenarios:

GEG - FRA; easy one-stop connection in PDX, or two stop via SEA and LHR/CPH/AMS/CDG. DL through SLC would require 2 stops regardless (SLC and CDG, or SLC and ATL/JFK).

RNO - LGW; would still require 2 stops as it would today. Could just as easily make one stop through SFO.

BIL - CDG; this would reduce the number of stops, but how many markets like this can really support a flight through SLC?

The problem is, only where people from these cities want to fly to PARIS will there be any advantage of routing through SLC. For any other European city, they will still need to make two connections on DL under the best-case scenario. Thus, if they're flying to one of the more major destinations (LON, FRA, AMS, etc.) they'd still be likely to pick a different carrier because they'd have fewer connections. And for any other smaller market, DL can just as easily route them through SLC and either JFK/ATL. Sure, DL would probably be able to pick up some traffic from bigger markets like SEA, SFO, and LAX, but the only passengers willing to do so would be bargain-hunters looking for the best fares (which certainly won't produce yields that would make such a flight profitable).

The real question boils down to this: how many SLC O&D pax and mountain state pax want to fly to Paris? If that number could support a daily flight, it could be successful. But when you look at total demand to Europe from the same places, this flight becomes less relevant because it really won't save these people that much time. It might be nice for SLC pax headed to BOM to be able to change in CDG instead of JFK, but will that really do anything to help DL's bottom line?


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7070 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 7):
If a route to europe with no tourists and no connecting traffic can work out of Portland it can work out of SALT LAKE CITY.

PDX has a stronger business base than SLC (consider Nike and Adidas, for example, which have been discussed as contributing to the success of this flight), and is also a larger metro area. PDX and the Pacific Northwest in general also has quite a bit of tourists. And despite not being a hub, PDX does have some feeder service on UX. Finally, UA can use the service to route some of the lower-yielding traffic away from SFO/LAX flights to FRA.

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 7):
The thing that is holding dl back is the hot summer temperatures, the runway length, and they want a huge cash gurantee to start the route. i think dl is just waiting to get money because they know the city of slc will pay it. remember dl is locking down slc, atl and jfk as THE hubs. those are the future of delta. its better to have the cvg fligths to europe out of slc than cvg they are mostly connecting traffic from the west anyway. eastern people can be routed thru atl or jfk.

I disagree - see my post above. I think the main thing holding the route back is simply that SLC and the mountain region doesn't have the demand for Paris flights to make them work. Also, DL has added so many new destinations that the AF codeshare arrangement becomes less and less important each year. As such, there is less demand to Paris to feed these flights.


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7038 times:

Imagine yourself for a moment, walking through CDG, passing aircraft going to BOS...JFK...MIA...LAX....ORD....PHL....IAH....then, out of nowhere, SLC. What's wrong with this picture? How does SLC think it can support a Paris flight? Or any European flight for that matter? Is the market really there to fill up that BizElite cabin on a consistent basis? I don't want to hear about tourists...tourists = low yield. I don't want to hear about connecting traffic from SFO/LAX/LAS/PHX/PDX/SEA...all of those cities have nonstop service to Europe. Do you think that SLC...with the help of some of the small Skywest cities in the region...generates enough traffic to support a service to Europe? I have my doubts. Perhaps i'll be proven wrong, but I don't see how this could work in any stretch of the imgination.


Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3452 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 19):
Imagine yourself for a moment, walking through CDG, passing aircraft going to BOS...JFK...MIA...LAX....ORD....PHL....IAH....then, out of nowhere, SLC. What's wrong with this picture? How does SLC think it can support a Paris flight? Or any European flight for that matter? Is the market really there to fill up that BizElite cabin on a consistent basis? I don't want to hear about tourists...tourists = low yield. I don't want to hear about connecting traffic from SFO/LAX/LAS/PHX/PDX/SEA...all of those cities have nonstop service to Europe. Do you think that SLC...with the help of some of the small Skywest cities in the region...generates enough traffic to support a service to Europe? I have my doubts. Perhaps i'll be proven wrong, but I don't see how this could work in any stretch of the imgination.

SLC thinks it can support European service because it can, and DL thinks it can too. It's just a matter of aircraft availability and whether or not there are better routes for the aircraft, which there likely will be. But I definitely foresee DL giving SLC-LGW/CDG (most likely CDG) a try in 2008, whether it will work is anyone's guess.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 17):
Well that might be true to a point, but at the same time, most of these cities already have one-stop service to Europe via SEA, MSP, LAX, or others. I don't understand why people from places like Southern California, the Bay Area, or Pacific Northwest could choose SLC as a connecting point when there are already multiple nonstops to Europe from these areas (and all have nonstop service to Paris as it is).

DL Elites would certainly fly from SFO, LAX, etc. to SLC to go to Europe, though there are AF nonstops. If the price is right, the times are good, and the miles are there, people will fly. It may not make money though.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 17):

RNO - LGW; would still require 2 stops as it would today. Could just as easily make one stop through SFO.

DL is increasingly servicing smaller western cities from ATL. Passengers can now travel with just one stop on DL from SEA, YVR, GEG (was this cancelled?), BOI, RNO, SJC, OAK, SMF, LAX, ONT, PSP, BUR, SNA, SAN, BZN, FCA, and JAC to ATL and hop on flights to over 25 cities in Europe. This does diminish the importance that SLC could have to Europe.

Jeremy


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 19):
Imagine yourself for a moment, walking through CDG, passing aircraft going to BOS...JFK...MIA...LAX....ORD....PHL....IAH....then, out of nowhere, SLC. What's wrong with this picture? How does SLC think it can support a Paris flight? Or any European flight for that matter? Is the market really there to fill up that BizElite cabin on a consistent basis? I don't want to hear about tourists...tourists = low yield. I don't want to hear about connecting traffic from SFO/LAX/LAS/PHX/PDX/SEA...all of those cities have nonstop service to Europe. Do you think that SLC...with the help of some of the small Skywest cities in the region...generates enough traffic to support a service to Europe? I have my doubts. Perhaps i'll be proven wrong, but I don't see how this could work in any stretch of the imgination.

...jealous poopsie?  Wink


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6411 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6906 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 21):
...jealous poopsie?

Jealous? No. Realist? Yes. Although I support DL 100% these days, so if they can make good on SLC-Europe, good for them.



Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6872 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 20):
DL Elites would certainly fly from SFO, LAX, etc. to SLC to go to Europe, though there are AF nonstops.

why would they...? It's not that they don't have elite benefits on AF codeshare flights....?



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User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 22):
Jealous? No.

Stop lying!
Yeah you are, and so am I... but c'est la vie  Sad


25 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Keep in mind Jeremy that some of the places mentioned are seasonal. YVR, BZN, FCA and even GEG & BOI come and go depending upon the time of year. Som
26 Dutchjet : With Delta expanding long range operations out of ATL, growing its JFK transatlantic gateway, mantaining tranatlantic service out of CVG, rumored to b
27 MAH4546 : Honestly, I think Delta would be able to make more money flying Ft. Lauderdale-Paris than Salt Lake City-Paris. Not that I think they would, I just th
28 EVA777SEA : Like pretty much everyone on this thread has stated, where is the O&D going to come from to support the flight, paticularly the premium pax? 2.6 is st
29 Post contains images Cba : At 4400nm, CDG-SLC is well within the range of both the 763ER and 764ER. The A343 is somewhat underpowered, whereas both 767 variants are twins and h
30 Jkudall : I knew the moment I saw the title of this thread there were going to be a handful of posts in here from people who have put SLC down over the years an
31 Evan767 : O&D would come from Salt Lake Citians (?) going to Paris. I am sure that a lot of them would like to travel there...
32 Flyorski : I hope that DL does start SLC-CDG, it would open all kinds of cities from Europe and the west. I would definitely use this, and I do think that DL cou
33 Dutchjet : Yes, the citizens of Salt Lake cant wait to get to Paris.....you are kidding? Which kind of cities are you talking about? What opportunites would SLC
34 ConcordeBoy : In perfect conditions yes, only problem is that operations are planned with technical difficulties in consideration. Lord knows I'm no fan of quadjet
35 EXAAUADL : No it wont..in fact I dont think any DL gateway does better to LGW than to CDG thanks to SkyTeam connection beyond CDG....THere will tons and I mean
36 ConcordeBoy : ...which is an attribute that'd actually work against any such flight
37 EVA777SEA : Well you can say that for pretty much any major airport in the US... With all the skyteam connections in CDG, how could LGW possibly do better?
38 MaverickM11 : There is precious little demand between SLC and CDG....I think less than AUS or even ABQ. I would expect AF to fly to DEN long before touching SLC, an
39 MaverickM11 : To be fair, most of that Mexican expansion is in response to F9 and SLC became the second largest hub after CVG was anihilated.
40 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Actually, the 2.1 million figure is what I intended to be for SLC's catchment area, and yes you did the math!    As I pointed out in reply #25 abov
41 WesternA318 : I honestly would rather see the A332 here (something new, and my fave widebody) as well... Same here, just wish it was on CO metal (One can indeed dr
42 WesternA318 : I honestly would rather see the A332 here (something new, and my fave widebody) as well... Same here, just wish it was on CO metal (One can indeed dr
43 WorldTraveler : of course if the EU and US sign an open skies deal, SLC service would be to LHR which would undoubtedly be much more valuable.
44 SLCUT2777 : The latest figures I've heard are that SLC-CDG is about roughly 20,000 O&D PAX per year and SLC-London (LGW/LHR) as over 40,000 PAX per year.
45 Humberside : I think SLC would be low priority for LHR service though. I imagine DL would start 2/3 daily ATL/JFK flights and once daily CVG before thinking about
46 SLCUT2777 : If such ever reached fruition I agree they'd go for LAX before SLC, but CVG is a stagnant market for them, and I think SLC would get the nod over the
47 EXAAUADL : Interesting because when I was at UAL, it was UA's 777 that had problems flying DEN-FRA, not LH's A340 Totally incorrect.....ORD-FRA, DTW-AMS, ATL-CD
48 MAH4546 : No they wouldn't. As "stagnant" as CVG is, Cincinatti has more demand to London than Salt Lake City, and provides more connections through their hub.
49 Mtsubshe : how come there is no flight from Atlanta to LHR, even BA flies to LGW from ATL
50 Dutchjet : I respectfully suggest that you do some research on the agreements between the US and UK regarding flights and something called Bermuda II......and t
51 Jkudall : I don't recall F9 ever expressing interest in SLC-MEX, SLC-GDL or SLC-PVR. Initially the SLC-CUN route may have been in response to F9's service but
52 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : hmmm, k.... mistake #1, comparing the revenue model for SLC with with likes of CDG/FRA/ORD/etc mistake #2 (refer to mistake #1)[Edited 2007-03-10 20:
53 Post contains images Cba : Note how I said "from a technical standpoint." I was talking purely about performance issues and nothing else. Really? That's interesting. I'm no exp
54 ConcordeBoy : Which is an absolutely pointless issue to discuss as it'd never applied in any realworld scenario.
55 Post contains images Pdxcof9 : Let me put in my .02. The portland area is growing more rapidly than SLC. But both are growing. There's always new housing developments in the PDX are
56 MastaHanky : I think one thing most of you are overlooking is the fact that Delta has stated that this route will need to be subsidized for a few years. SLC is wel
57 SLCUT2777 : Actually there are many of my sources at DL who look at CVG as being a 25 year mistake now for the airline. If they had to do it over again I think t
58 MAH4546 : If Delta thinks that their most profitable hub operation, on a per flight basis, was a mistake, no wonder they are in bankruptcy. That is because Cin
59 EVA777SEA : I love how that number seems to keep jumping up in this thread...
60 WorldTraveler : for those of you that think that CVG bashing is very fashionable, there is not anyother hub the size of CINCINNATI (note the spelling) that has 3 yea
61 SLCUT2777 : Hind-site is always 20/20. IND and CMH have been far greater economic engines since DL went with CVG back in 1981-82. What has helped CVG keep costs
62 MAH4546 : And I'd be willing to PIT gets Europe back before SLC gets Europe for the first time.
63 MaverickM11 : For chrissakes they pulled half the seats out of that hub. For the longest time there were only two mainline jets serving the city by any carrier oth
64 Dutchjet : What is that supposed to mean.......simply that there is not adequate O&D demand and premium demand to support a SLC-CDG flight, nothing more and not
65 WesternA318 : Please do not forget the loads we get during the Sundance Festival as well, from both touists and businessfolk alike...
66 MAH4546 : How could we forget. Your right, airlines should run year-round flights because of weekly festivals...
67 WesternA318 : I never said it could be counted on for year round...but for the time it does run, the Loads into SLC are pretty high and with a good mix of Y and F
68 Post contains images MastaHanky : "Delta is pleased to announce new non-stop seasonal service between Salt Lake City and Paris. This seasonal service will begin January 22nd and will
69 Dutchjet : And, once again, thats the point: Connecting traffic is usually lower yeilding traffic. and DL can already route most of it pax between the US and Eu
70 Cba : 1. It's a relevant issue pertaining to this thread, and nobody's forcing you to participate if you think that it's pointless to discuss. 2. Learn som
71 MAH4546 : Why don't you? It'd is a contraction of "it+had" or "it+would".
72 WesternA318 : With all of the connection possibilites (assuming the flight would be an afternoon/evening departure) plus the O/D numbers within 1.5/2.5 hours drive
73 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Which combined, have how many Fortune 500s relative to CVG? Fortune 1000s? ...and then, how many of either for both of those cities are contracted pr
74 Cba : I wasn't referring to the contraction, "it would never applied," is still not correct. Others have pointed out smaller cities in the West and on the
75 Post contains images WesternA318 : True, but you still need to learn how to quote other replies! LAS, PDX, GEG, SEA, LAX/ONT/BUR/SNA, SAN/TIJ, SJC/SFO/OAK, SMF, FAT, DEN, COS, PHX, TUS
76 Post contains images EVA777SEA : SEA, LAX and SFO already have service to CDG on AF which is a Skyteam partner. The traffic coming from those cities would most likely be low yield tr
77 LHboyatDTW : This has lead me to think. SLC is around the size of MEM and next to DEN MEM is also a small hub next to ATL. MEM currently has a daily AMS flight wit
78 Post contains images Cba : Haha, damn nested quoting gets complicated Yes, but most if not all of these places are already served through ATL, CVG, LAX on the DL side. There's
79 WesternA318 : Now youre talking about SkyTeam travelers like me, who live in a DLhub, but NEVER fly them, and will gladly backtrack to IAH for a SLC-LAX journey...
80 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : I don't see US in any hurry to put something back into PIT despite all the subsidizing offers. And like DL is to SLC, US is to PIT, and no one else w
81 ConcordeBoy : Cute statement, but holistically inaccurate and blatantly false by omission. Hmm, let's see... In 2006 CVG metro was home to 26 Fortune 1000 companie
82 Flyorski : Exactly, I have a lot of family in SLC, and it is always hard to go visit them, which I do at least twice a year, and they also often fly back here.
83 RwSEA : That is ONLY true if they're going to CDG. If they're going anywhere else, they'd still have to stop in ATL, JFK, CVG, or CDG. That's why a single fl
84 SLCUT2777 : The big question is what the yield will be like on such a long haul flight. For AA, SJC-NRT had the numbers. But given the up and down cycle of the t
85 FlyPNS1 : But they have. AMS was daily last summer, now its only 4x weekly. CDG was a 777, now it will be a 763. And while not a DL flight, AF cut its CDG-CVG
86 Jkudall : I'm not sure I fully understand. So if I misunderstood your post, I apologize. Many people connect down-line in CDG too. I see lots of people who hav
87 OA412 : Oh please, you know full well why CDG was downgraded to a 763 and that it has nothing to do with CVG not being able to support a 777 on the route.
88 RwSEA : But honestly, how many people are flying to those kinds of places from the mountain region? If DL adds CDG, it will be the ONLY destination in Europe
89 Post contains links SlcDeltaRUmd11 : no its not selling it short. I'm sure there are very few Europeans going on vacations to OREGON im sure the tourists are almost exclusively going the
90 RwSEA : Take a look at a UA schedule and get back to me. If that's the case, how come I can get cheap SEA-FRA fares if I route via PDX using UX? No it won't.
91 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : to start i could tell from that comment that you live in Seattle. Its not that simple in a big metro area such as LA, NYC etc. SNA almost always cost
92 Jkudall : You'd be surprised. I was only using EUG as an example. So nobody going from SNA to say BOS ever connects in SLC? They can do it in CVG or ATL, so wh
93 RwSEA : Yes, that may be true for the flight to ORD or DEN. But when you're talking about a long-haul intercontinental flight, things change. People are will
94 ConcordeBoy : But once again, the point you fail to address is what incentive does DL have to tie up 767s doing that when they could potentially be used on far gre
95 EVA777SEA : No one has seemed to address where the premium pax would come from...
96 Post contains images BigGSFO : There's nothing to address becuase there are very few premum passengers. Currently there are plenty of seats available for the few preium passnegers
97 Post contains images RwSEA : Oh, come on now, you know those CRJs flying from FAT, GEG, EUG, BLI, TUS, and MSO are just filled to the brim with high-yielding pax that all want to
98 Jkudall : Funny you should mention....because some of those "CRJ cities" actually have some of the highest percentages of premium fliers in the DL system. PSC
99 AirTranTUS : Out of those 4, LAX is the best option out of TUS. DL elites would be better off connecting in ATL. The shortest connection though is 2:20. If a 1 ho
100 ConcordeBoy : ...interesting to mention those two, as nonstops to Paris have been tried from both
101 BigGSFO : There was an ONT-Paris? Really?
102 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : scheduled-charter
103 Post contains images MAH4546 : That would be Oakland, not ONT. It was actually a scheduled flight, not a scheduled charter. Routing was ORY-OAK-PPT.
104 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Egad, totally wasn't paying attention-- I even typed "Corsair" and "Oakland" into the friggin' search engine while looking for those pics!
105 Ssides : That connecting market, however, is not all that big. For an SLC-CDG or SLC-LGW flight, most of your connecting traffic would need to come from point
106 Humberside : I guess Corsair would have operated it
107 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...though PHX isn't among them to PAR
108 EVA777SEA : Do you have a source?
109 FlyCMH : Here are the 2006 Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000 rankings for companies based in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Indianapolis: Forture 500 based in Cincinnat
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