"A Los Angeles-bound Boeing 767 had to abort a takeoff last week at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport after an air-traffic controller mistakenly cleared the Delta flight and then cleared two airplanes to taxi across the path of the accelerating jet.
It was the second time in three months that a takeoff has been aborted due to a controller error at the world's busiest airport, and it has rekindled complaints by some controllers that they are understaffed and overworked."
It seems to me that there are some critical issues at US airports due to understaffed or overworked ATC's as we are hearing more and more reports about these issues lately. Is this a global problem?
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6278 times:
Let's hopethey get some that have better short term memoray.
Eskimo1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4929 times:
Unfortunately I think that there will be a major accident on U.S soil before anyone is persuaded to make drastic changes to the system. I hope that is not the case, but, you know how people are, they wait for something bad to happen before they take any action.
SoonerLT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4778 times:
Is the ATC-TI still the only route to becoming a controller outside of the the military? I'd love to be an ATC, but I'm nearing the max hiring age and also don't feel like moving to another state to get a second undergraduate degree when there's not even a guarantee I'd get hired.
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4479 times:
If you go to FAA.gov and click "jobs", under "series" scroll down to 2152. The FAA has a few bids out for "Off the Street" hires in the New England Region. I believe, Bedford ATCT (ATC 7), Nantucket ATCT (ATC 7) and Cape TRACON (ATC 8) have openings under this announcement. Other than that, the only way in is either military ATC (VRA's) or the 13 or so colleges that offer ATC as a degree (CTI's).
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4180 times:
I was an air traffic controller for the USN at NAS Brunswick, Maine. It was a great "up/down" (Tower and Approach) facility. I was stationed there for five years. My experience at NHZ gave me a solid foundation for the FAA.
UsAirways16bwi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1003 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3446 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2): Let's hopethey get some that have better short term memoray
Quoting Eskimo1 (Reply 3): Unfortunately I think that there will be a major accident on U.S soil before anyone is persuaded to make drastic changes to the system. I hope that is not the case, but, you know how people are, they wait for something bad to happen before they take any action.
its sad that the ATC's are understaffed and overworked, when they should be just the oposite. They really need to be sharp to be able to do their jobs successfully. One screw up, people can die.
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3331 times:
if you're not a controller, then you shouldn't be suggesting what and how things should work....those people do a DAMN fine job, they make it look poetic and easy, then one thing goes wrong and peopel unleash....
these forums are losing their quality and their value....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
Quoting DL777Dude (Thread starter): It seems to me that there are some critical issues at US airports due to understaffed or overworked ATC's as we are hearing more and more reports about these issues lately
The NAS (National Airspace System) is facing some lean times in regards to controller staffing. After President Reagan fired the PATCO controllers in August of 1981, the FAA went on a hiring binge to help the system recover. Now, those controllers hired in the early to mid 80's are reaching retirement age (eligible at age 50, mandatory at age 56). The FAA plans to hire 1300-1500 controllers a year, for the next ten years. Which is fine; but, they should've started this level of hiring five years ago. Keep in mind, it takes between one to three years (depending on what facility your assigned to) to certify. So, while new controllers are entering the system, they (the developmentals) will not help with staffing/operating the facility for a few years. Experienced, journeymen controllers are leaving at a rate that is higher than they can be immediately replaced. For instance, my facility is authorized 71 controllers. Currently, we have 44 Certified Professional Controllers, 8 trainees (transfers from other FAA facilities) and one developmental (just out of the USAF). Four controllers will be retiring by June and 2 or 3 more may go in the Fall. On average, it takes 2 years to certify here and not everyone makes it. I foresee mandatory 6 day work weeks to keep the NAS running.
Please do not think that I am complaining, far from it. I love being a controller and working at ORD is a blast. I enjoy going to the Tower every day and I am grateful/thankful for my career. I am just answering DL777Dude's question from my perspective.
Willyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 467 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2728 times:
In this day in age, why can't they get some sort of sensor system on runways at busy airports like ORD and ATL that can measure a plane using the runway above a certain speed (t/o and landing speeds), and advise planes it is not safe to cross? Some sort of backup measure like this shouldn't be too difficult to achieve.
DL777Dude From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2625 times:
Quoting P3Orion (Reply 10): Please do not think that I am complaining, far from it. I love being a controller and working at ORD is a blast. I enjoy going to the Tower every day and I am grateful/thankful for my career. I am just answering DL777Dude's question from my perspective.
P3Orion,
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I do understand the pressure each ATC goes thru on a daily basis and totally respect each and every ATC worldwide. The job you do is nerve wrecking to say the least and you all deserve kudos
I was trying to understand if there was some sort of correlation with the firings that Reagan did in the 80's and the current shortage of ATC, but as you clearly point out the controllers hired to replace the ones that were fired are now close to their retirement. It seems to me that the FAA should have been watchful of this situation coming up and prepare for it by pro-actively hiring and training new controllers so they are ready to take over for the retiring one. Do you know if the FAA keep some sort of quota system in where they now that each year they have to hire and train at least an x amount of controllers to cover for any retirements or other circumstances?
Reltney From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2236 times:
As a pilot, ATL and ORD on the average have the BEST U.S.controllers. I have 20 years working with them and have covered the country from corner to corner. I have 2 majors under my belt and most pilots I fly with seem think the same. DFW is one of the worst airports to fly into in dealing with ATC by a long shot but the new RNAV sids and stars have made a vast improvement. NYC is always comical and very good but mistakes are a part of this career and industry and happen EVERY DAY. The press ALWAYS blows everything out of porportion and should NEVER be taken seriously for facts.
Take it with a grain of salt. ATC is a hard working group of people and make mistakes like everyone else(even us pylotS). Lets find ways to make it better every time we strap on a plane. Cheers..
Aviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2139 times:
The air traffic controllers in the USA are the best in the world. I am saying this from experience. They handle the most traffic in the worst weather than anywhere else. Places like ATL are amazing in how they move traffic. There are mistakes made but back-ups in the system prevent tragedy. Reagan destroyed the ATC system when he fired all those controllers. Moreover, the system has been underfunded for decades because aviation taxes have been diverted to fund other pet projects and not used for what they have been intended. Kudos to you ATC guys who do wonder's in the sky. Thanks for all those "Cleared Direct..."
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 14): The air traffic controllers in the USA are the best in the world. I am saying this from experience. They handle the most traffic in the worst weather than anywhere else
what? how can you quantify something that constantly changes, being an ATC doesn't segragate into where you're from and what country you control in....that's a pretty primitive statement to make...
since when are the only factors weather and the traffic load... i could counter your argument by saying the US has no english language problems, has radar everywhere and has precision approaches in 99% of its airports...
what about someone controlling here in turkey? or in russia? multi cultural understandings of phrases, NDB approaches ebing flown by A310s and 737s, and non radar environment with a pin board...
are these people not awesome controllers too?
i could make the same silly statement and say that controllers in south Turkey are the best because they bring in 450 russian jets a day, pilots that barely speak english and constantly drink on the tarmac, and most approaches are non precision....
you can't just say something like that because you have a "hunch".....
aviation is a global element, let's not make it into mine is better than yours...because when a plane crashes, there's always people onboard from different places...all for one..
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
P3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1816 times:
Quoting DL777Dude (Reply 12): It seems to me that the FAA should have been watchful of this situation coming up and prepare for it by pro-actively hiring and training new controllers so they are ready to take over for the retiring one. Do you know if the FAA keep some sort of quota system in where they now that each year they have to hire and train at least an x amount of controllers to cover for any retirements or other circumstances?
The best way to answer your question is to have you go to www.natca.org and click on Patrick Forrey's testimony before the Senate Aviation Subcomittee. Also, if you click on "Staffing Crisis" you may gain a little insight into the staffing shortfalls across the FAA.
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