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Delta Jet Forced To Abort Takeoff At ATL  
User currently offlineDL777Dude From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 35 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7852 times:

Hi Folks,

First new topic started that I start, so be gentle...  Wink

Just noticed this at ajc.com. Apparently there was another incident at ATL caused by a controller error.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/met...es/2007/03/09/metairport0310a.html

Excerpt from article.

"A Los Angeles-bound Boeing 767 had to abort a takeoff last week at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport after an air-traffic controller mistakenly cleared the Delta flight and then cleared two airplanes to taxi across the path of the accelerating jet.

It was the second time in three months that a takeoff has been aborted due to a controller error at the world's busiest airport, and it has rekindled complaints by some controllers that they are understaffed and overworked."

It seems to me that there are some critical issues at US airports due to understaffed or overworked ATC's as we are hearing more and more reports about these issues lately. Is this a global problem?

Cheers,

Tony

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDanairbus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

The FAA plans to hire and train about 15,000 new air traffic controllers over the next 10 years. They will hire 1,400 controllers this year.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7698 times:

Let's hopethey get some that have better short term memoray.

User currently offlineEskimo1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

Unfortunately I think that there will be a major accident on U.S soil before anyone is persuaded to make drastic changes to the system. I hope that is not the case, but, you know how people are, they wait for something bad to happen before they take any action.

User currently offlineSoonerLT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6198 times:

Is the ATC-TI still the only route to becoming a controller outside of the the military? I'd love to be an ATC, but I'm nearing the max hiring age and also don't feel like moving to another state to get a second undergraduate degree when there's not even a guarantee I'd get hired.

User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

If you go to FAA.gov and click "jobs", under "series" scroll down to 2152. The FAA has a few bids out for "Off the Street" hires in the New England Region. I believe, Bedford ATCT (ATC 7), Nantucket ATCT (ATC 7) and Cape TRACON (ATC 8) have openings under this announcement. Other than that, the only way in is either military ATC (VRA's) or the 13 or so colleges that offer ATC as a degree (CTI's).

[Edited 2007-03-10 23:13:50]


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineSoonerLT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5701 times:

What route did you take, P3?

User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5600 times:

I was an air traffic controller for the USN at NAS Brunswick, Maine. It was a great "up/down" (Tower and Approach) facility. I was stationed there for five years. My experience at NHZ gave me a solid foundation for the FAA.


"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineUsAirways16bwi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1004 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
Let's hopethey get some that have better short term memoray

 checkmark 

Quoting Eskimo1 (Reply 3):
Unfortunately I think that there will be a major accident on U.S soil before anyone is persuaded to make drastic changes to the system. I hope that is not the case, but, you know how people are, they wait for something bad to happen before they take any action.

 checkmark 
its sad that the ATC's are understaffed and overworked, when they should be just the oposite. They really need to be sharp to be able to do their jobs successfully. One screw up, people can die.


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4751 times:

if you're not a controller, then you shouldn't be suggesting what and how things should work....those people do a DAMN fine job, they make it look poetic and easy, then one thing goes wrong and peopel unleash....

these forums are losing their quality and their value....



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

Quoting DL777Dude (Thread starter):
It seems to me that there are some critical issues at US airports due to understaffed or overworked ATC's as we are hearing more and more reports about these issues lately

The NAS (National Airspace System) is facing some lean times in regards to controller staffing. After President Reagan fired the PATCO controllers in August of 1981, the FAA went on a hiring binge to help the system recover. Now, those controllers hired in the early to mid 80's are reaching retirement age (eligible at age 50, mandatory at age 56). The FAA plans to hire 1300-1500 controllers a year, for the next ten years. Which is fine; but, they should've started this level of hiring five years ago. Keep in mind, it takes between one to three years (depending on what facility your assigned to) to certify. So, while new controllers are entering the system, they (the developmentals) will not help with staffing/operating the facility for a few years. Experienced, journeymen controllers are leaving at a rate that is higher than they can be immediately replaced. For instance, my facility is authorized 71 controllers. Currently, we have 44 Certified Professional Controllers, 8 trainees (transfers from other FAA facilities) and one developmental (just out of the USAF). Four controllers will be retiring by June and 2 or 3 more may go in the Fall. On average, it takes 2 years to certify here and not everyone makes it. I foresee mandatory 6 day work weeks to keep the NAS running.

Please do not think that I am complaining, far from it. I love being a controller and working at ORD is a blast. I enjoy going to the Tower every day and I am grateful/thankful for my career. I am just answering DL777Dude's question from my perspective.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

In this day in age, why can't they get some sort of sensor system on runways at busy airports like ORD and ATL that can measure a plane using the runway above a certain speed (t/o and landing speeds), and advise planes it is not safe to cross? Some sort of backup measure like this shouldn't be too difficult to achieve.

User currently offlineDL777Dude From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Quoting P3Orion (Reply 10):
Please do not think that I am complaining, far from it. I love being a controller and working at ORD is a blast. I enjoy going to the Tower every day and I am grateful/thankful for my career. I am just answering DL777Dude's question from my perspective.

P3Orion,

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I do understand the pressure each ATC goes thru on a daily basis and totally respect each and every ATC worldwide. The job you do is nerve wrecking to say the least and you all deserve kudos  bigthumbsup 

I was trying to understand if there was some sort of correlation with the firings that Reagan did in the 80's and the current shortage of ATC, but as you clearly point out the controllers hired to replace the ones that were fired are now close to their retirement. It seems to me that the FAA should have been watchful of this situation coming up and prepare for it by pro-actively hiring and training new controllers so they are ready to take over for the retiring one. Do you know if the FAA keep some sort of quota system in where they now that each year they have to hire and train at least an x amount of controllers to cover for any retirements or other circumstances?

Regards,

Tony.


User currently offlineReltney From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 199 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3656 times:

As a pilot, ATL and ORD on the average have the BEST U.S.controllers. I have 20 years working with them and have covered the country from corner to corner. I have 2 majors under my belt and most pilots I fly with seem think the same. DFW is one of the worst airports to fly into in dealing with ATC by a long shot but the new RNAV sids and stars have made a vast improvement. NYC is always comical and very good but mistakes are a part of this career and industry and happen EVERY DAY. The press ALWAYS blows everything out of porportion and should NEVER be taken seriously for facts.

Take it with a grain of salt. ATC is a hard working group of people and make mistakes like everyone else(even us pylotS). Lets find ways to make it better every time we strap on a plane. Cheers..



I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
User currently offlineAviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3559 times:

The air traffic controllers in the USA are the best in the world. I am saying this from experience. They handle the most traffic in the worst weather than anywhere else. Places like ATL are amazing in how they move traffic. There are mistakes made but back-ups in the system prevent tragedy. Reagan destroyed the ATC system when he fired all those controllers. Moreover, the system has been underfunded for decades because aviation taxes have been diverted to fund other pet projects and not used for what they have been intended. Kudos to you ATC guys who do wonder's in the sky. Thanks for all those "Cleared Direct..."

User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 14):
The air traffic controllers in the USA are the best in the world. I am saying this from experience. They handle the most traffic in the worst weather than anywhere else

what? how can you quantify something that constantly changes, being an ATC doesn't segragate into where you're from and what country you control in....that's a pretty primitive statement to make...

since when are the only factors weather and the traffic load... i could counter your argument by saying the US has no english language problems, has radar everywhere and has precision approaches in 99% of its airports...

what about someone controlling here in turkey? or in russia? multi cultural understandings of phrases, NDB approaches ebing flown by A310s and 737s, and non radar environment with a pin board...
are these people not awesome controllers too?

i could make the same silly statement and say that controllers in south Turkey are the best because they bring in 450 russian jets a day, pilots that barely speak english and constantly drink on the tarmac, and most approaches are non precision....

you can't just say something like that because you have a "hunch".....

aviation is a global element, let's not make it into mine is better than yours...because when a plane crashes, there's always people onboard from different places...all for one..



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineP3Orion From United States of America, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Quoting DL777Dude (Reply 12):
It seems to me that the FAA should have been watchful of this situation coming up and prepare for it by pro-actively hiring and training new controllers so they are ready to take over for the retiring one. Do you know if the FAA keep some sort of quota system in where they now that each year they have to hire and train at least an x amount of controllers to cover for any retirements or other circumstances?

The best way to answer your question is to have you go to www.natca.org and click on Patrick Forrey's testimony before the Senate Aviation Subcomittee. Also, if you click on "Staffing Crisis" you may gain a little insight into the staffing shortfalls across the FAA.



"Did he say strap in or strap on?"
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