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BOS (Logan) Wants Japan Flights, Article Says  
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

After Daisuke Matsuzaka was signed by the Sox, there were a few threads about whether this justified and was the tipping point for Japan-BOS non-stop flights.

Well, apparently the good folks at Massport were on the same brain wavelength, and as the Herald reports today, as they are definitely in the hunt now for non-stop flights to Japan.

Here is the article:
http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=187577


Here's what I think happens. ANA frees up a 777-200 if American or United doesnt take the route, and runs a couple of "seasonal" (baseball that is) flights to Boston. Eventually the service will go daily.

Its got to happen sooner or later.

Just my    Hope it starts sometime soon (but realistically my hopes are not high until that 787 comes into service.

[Edited 2007-03-10 18:57:54]


SIN > CVG > BOS
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoston92 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3390 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

It will end up being a 2-4x weekly thing.


"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 1):
It will end up being a 2-4x weekly thing.

Better than what we have now, nothing...i'll take whatever we can get.

I seriously do hope its ANA. They have that int'l configured 777-200 that they just moved off the SFO route since they just started the 777-300ER to that station.



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

It is extremely realistic to expect BOS-NRT service when airlines start taking delivery of the 787. It won't be for another 2-3 years that, IMO, it will happen. Though wiht the 787 coming along, I think Boston, Philadelphia, Denver, Miami, San Diego, and Phoenix will finally see that Narita flight...


a.
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
It is extremely realistic to expect BOS-NRT service when airlines start taking delivery of the 787. It won't be for another 2-3 years that, IMO, it will happen. Though wiht the 787 coming along, I think Boston, Philadelphia, Denver, Miami, San Diego, and Phoenix will finally see that Narita flight...

Yes but the influx of Japanese tourists will be starting in April when Dice-K mania hits Fenway  bouncy ...

2-3 years, we can't wait that long!!!



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

I find it interesting that 115 people currently fly between Boston and Japan, daily. That number is higher than I expected. Add to that passengers that could transfer at NRT, to other parts of Asia and a BOS-NRT non-stop starts to make a lot of sense. Too bad the A332 doesn't have the legs for it or NW would be perfectly positioned to offer this service. I guess, short of the occasional charter or seasonal service, we'll just have to wait a few years for the 787.

User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 5):
I find it interesting that 115 people currently fly between Boston and Japan, daily. That number is higher than I expected.

I'm curious where you can get that sort of information? I've been looking for it for a while.


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Didn't JL and KE look at operating to BOS from NRT and ICN respectively a few years ago? KE seems to be looking for new destination all the time. I feel that this is a 787-8 route but could be used with a 772. NH just ordered 4 more 773ERs and I bet these will go on routes currently operated by 744s or places that could see an upgrade from a 772ER. That opens the possibility of NRT-BOS. NH and JL have first dibs on new NRT slots and can could operate the flight if they decrease frequency and add capacity on some routes and add new routes.

It will all come down to aircraft availability and slots into NRT. To me that means the possible contenders are NW, UA, JL and NH. AA is another possibility as long as they change the destination from one NRT slot. What did San Jose-NRT become?

NH is the best bet for this flight and I bet it is higher on the list than say NGO-SEA (Ichiro is still popular and is Aichi's hometown boy...not to mention we have high-tech and aviation industries) which has been rumored now for 3+ years.

Good thing the Twins or Yankees didn't pursue Matsuzaka eh?



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

It's doubtful that UA or AA will serve NRT from BOS. AA has done nothing but cut flights out of BOS recently, and with UA's cuts out of JFK, I doubt they will be starting up any new non-hub international flying any time soon. UA has the slots, but it's doubtful they could make this route work with a 777. NW might give it a go when they start taking delivery of their 787s. They also have a good position in E and have the support needed to fly international out of BOS.


/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Quoting L.1011 (Reply 6):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 5):I find it interesting that 115 people currently fly between Boston and Japan, daily. That number is higher than I expected.

I'm curious where you can get that sort of information? I've been looking for it for a while.

It's in the article.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
NH is the best bet for this flight and I bet it is higher on the list than say NGO-SEA (Ichiro is still popular and is Aichi's hometown boy...not to mention we have high-tech and aviation industries) which has been rumored now for 3+ years.

I guess so too, it makes perfect sense to me. With the 115 people leaving logan for Japan on a daily basis, you can almost imagine that that number will grow with the appeal of non-stop flights. Additionally throw in the connections from Japan to elsewhere in Asia people could make (Singapore, Seoul, Beijing, Shanghai, etc.), this flight would do very well, especially with cargo.

Maybe SQ will route a flight through there  Wink They have been looking at BOS, and they have 5th freedom rights out of Japan...maaakes sense...*looks around*



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

I just thought of this: Im sure PWM, MHT, PVD, and BDL have people leaving on a daily basis for Japan (albeit not a lot, probably just a handful in each airport). I imagine those people could also make the jump to Boston if the non-stop flight came about. New England is so underserved to Asia its not even funny.


SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

Don't forget that Air Canada flies daily from YYZ-NRT. I believe almost all of the previously mentioned northeastern cities have morning flights to YYZ which connect to the NRT flight.

User currently offlineSQ452 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 11):
Don't forget that Air Canada flies daily from YYZ-NRT. I believe almost all of the previously mentioned northeastern cities have morning flights to YYZ which connect to the NRT flight.

Yes true.

UA also has a flight (or had) a flight that went straight through BOS>ORD>NRT>ICN.

Morning flight, always full of Koreans and Japanese nationals. The demand is there...i hope something will be in place before the end of the year.



SIN > CVG > BOS
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4181 times:

The 787 has to be the most anticipated new platform launch in a long time. I won't say 'ever,' because that starts a never-ending debate. But the 787 holds the pseudo-promise of opening up all sorts of nonstop city-pairs (like the one we're discussing here). Dice-K pitches every fifth day, so that alone won't warrant a nonstop. If he were an every-day player, sure, but he isn't. Maybe a carrier would debut the market with a long-legged 777 and then, when the 787 comes along, they will really solidify their market presence. If I were an Asian carrier I would capitalize NOW, while none of the U.S. flag carriers are in a position to.

Chris in H


User currently offlineBAGoldEx From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Would JAL or ANA adding on a leg from JFK a few times a week work out at all?

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4009 times:

If BOS (or specifically Massport) can subsidize the NRT-BOS leg and beg the NAA for slots at NRT, sure NH & JL might think of serving the route. But somehow even if slots were ample at NRT, NRT-BOS would be too marginal for even an 787.
Of course, I can be wrong and I will eat my shorts the day that route is launched!

Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 14):
Would JAL or ANA adding on a leg from JFK a few times a week work out at all?

Not in a million years.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
NH and JL have first dibs on new NRT slots

They compete with everybody else that wants slots at NRT. It just happens foreign carriers are slightly handicapped with preferred time slots.
NH & JL, as home bases, can be flexible with scheduling and establish flights wherever there are openings.


User currently offlineWN230 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 341 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

Couldn't DL start a BOS-NRT route? Wouldn't this be a good route for them, or would it be easier for DL to just start one from JFK?

WN230



Judas Priest North American tour in '08 . . . cannot wait!!!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

Quoting WN230 (Reply 16):
Couldn't DL start a BOS-NRT route? Wouldn't this be a good route for them, or would it be easier for DL to just start one from JFK?

Delta is in no position to start a Boston-Tokyo route. They flew JFK-NRT in 2001, for a very short time, and dropped it after 9/11. They gave up the route authority, which American Airlines now has.

JAL is probably the best airline to operate BOS-NRT, given oneWorld's strong pressence in Boston. If not, then ANA.

American Airlines announced Boston-Tokyo in 1999, but it never started.



a.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

Just to add, no US carrier has the right aircraft nor the aircraft availability to serve this market.
NW could (a very big if) with the 788.
CO wouldn't be on this route due to the proximity to its EWR hub.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
If BOS (or specifically Massport) can subsidize the NRT-BOS leg and beg the NAA for slots at NRT

Somehow I don't see Massport as being in the 'subsidizing' business. Have they done this before (e.g. Iberia)?

If not, they'd open up a can of worms if they helped some foreign flag carrier with financial inducements, if that's what you mean by 'subsidizing.'

Chris in NH


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8380 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 19):
Somehow I don't see Massport as being in the 'subsidizing' business. Have they done this before (e.g. Iberia)?

It's normal procedure to attract new business. I know the last time TP served BOS they received incentives.
There are always incentives attached to the deal when it comes to attracting a new airline or a new destination. I don't see why other airlines would complain about it 'cause most of them understand the business and were or still are, the beneficiaries of such incentives at different places throughout the World. The incentives do not necessarily come from the airport authority. They're usualy financed by the local tourism board and business associations.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 15):
But somehow even if slots were ample at NRT, NRT-BOS would be too marginal for even an 787.

I think BOS-NRT is one of those potentially good routes that hasn't been discovered yet. We may not have the volume but we certainly have the yields. As has been mentioned above, currently 115 passengers fly daily between BOS and Japan. That doesn't include people who fly from other New England airports such as MHT, PVD, and BDL. Most of those are likely to be business 'cause I just don't see 115 tousists flying from Boston to Japan in the middle of February. In addition, the introduction of the non-stop combined with the recent exposure in Japan, of Boston/NE as a tourist destination, has the potential for increasing the amount of traffic on the route. And last but not least, NRT could be a very good alternative for passengers from the Boston area to change flight to other Asian destinations. Put all of those together, and the number of passengers could easily double. Add cargo revenue to it and this route starts to look very likely with a 772 and most definitely with a 788.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

I hope that when the 787 does start production Boeing doesn't start backpedaling on the plane's performance metrics to the point where these 'long-and-thin' routes stop being attractive. It seems that many new platform aircraft start with marvelous targets that the airlines 'Oooooh' and 'Ahhhh' at, only to go the other way once specific design elements get locked down. Let's hope the 787 is as attractive two years from now as it is now.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3763 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 5):
Too bad the A332 doesn't have the legs for it or NW would be perfectly positioned to offer this service.

"the A332" does indeed have the legs for it---- NW's A332s, on the other hand........

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
KE seems to be looking for new destination all the time

Granted, their fleet choice was rather limited then, but keep in mind that KE served BOS with their own metal and decided to pull out against going nonstop.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 21):
It seems that many new platform aircraft start with marvelous targets that the airlines 'Oooooh' and 'Ahhhh' at, only to go the other way once specific design elements get locked down.

...pray tell; what, IYO, was the last pax model Boeing did this with-- so far as promised design and performance were concerned?


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

I'm not picking on Boeing, but is it true that they've always been spot-on with the performance of their planes when compared with the advance projections? If that's the case, I'm impressed. I'm speaking about downstream, when the weights creep up and performance benchmarks go down.

Chris in NH


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

The biggest issue I see with all this is that everyone (aiports) wants flights to NRT, Asia, glamorous international destinations, regardless of suitable, sustained, profitable demand; regardless of the airline's limited, capacity & performance suited aircraft; regardless of limited slots & airport facilities at many of these destinations.

Just look at the thread titles on this board:
BOS wants NRT
DEN wants NRT/Asia
SLC wants CDG, LGW, NRT/Asia
CLE wants CDG/Europe

AA wants DFW-PEK
DL wants ATL-PEK
US wants PHL-PEK
NW wants DTW-PEK
CO wants EWR-PEK

I could go on and on here about the wish lists of airports and airlines, often which don't always see eye to eye.
Its easy for the airports to start these pushes for service such as this, whether it will happen is another matter. With all of these airports wanting service, especially a place like NRT that simply doesn't have the slots available to start service to all of these places (BOS,DEN,SAN,SLC). That isn't going to change anytime soon. Plus, if all these were to happen, isn't that going to flood the market to the point where there is more supply than demand. I know the market is growing, but, in recent years, the only major market to get new service to NRT is PDX. Everything else had been from existing markets. Time will tell if these wishlists are fulfilled.


25 ConcordeBoy : ...and even then, nothing really "new" about it; they were just able to resume the service they long had but with another carrier.
26 Post contains images B52murph : Hah...Massport have a good idea? That's a new one... what about the basics first: a) Approve international arrivals at Terminals A, B, C. Didn't DL c
27 Navairjax : I would think that NH would fit better than JL since Star has the largest network presence there.
28 MAH4546 : No single alliance has a dominant network pressence. Star, oneWorld, and SkyTeam are all pretty equal, but oneWorld's network is the most extensive,
29 Navairjax : While I don't doubt that all three are close, I do believe that US serves the most destinations from BOS giving Star a slight advantage.
30 ConcordeBoy : no
31 SQ452 : But BOS is the largest market in the US that does not have ANY service to Asia. All those other cities you listed of the airlines that want China fli
32 Airbazar : Do you even know BOS? Who exactly is going to pay to build, staff, and support all these FIS facilities that you're proposing? And where exactly woul
33 MAH4546 : Philadelphia is, actually. Boston will have Asia service soon enough, probably not by 2009, but it will happen.
34 SQ452 : Well, if you are right then, then maybe somebody got it wrong, because, in the article the massport CEO quotes it as follows: “Since then, the traf
35 Post contains links MAH4546 : Well, it will depend on what rankings they were using, and they were most likely using the one that looks most favourable upon them, rather than the
36 Airbazar : Market does not refer to Urban Area. It usually refers to the airport's catchement area and PHL loses there because so much of it's catchement area ov
37 Vega : You are incorrect. PHL's airport CATCHMENT Area is 11 counties and 8 Million. Since WN started service to PHL, the outflow to other airports (e.g., B
38 Post contains images HighFlyer9790 : Here's another scenerio: Come summer (baseball) it will be 744 service 4x weekly, dropping to a 777 2-3x weekly in winter. even if Dice-K didnt come
39 MAH4546 : Absolutely not viable. This route would need business traffic to survive, and would need to be at least 5x weekly to get a healthy flow of it. I can'
40 ConcordeBoy : Curious, what was your source for that figure?
41 Airbazar : If you look at the time Asian flights operate at JFK/EWR/ORD, gate space will not be an issue at Terminal E. A lot of flights to/from Asia arrive/dep
42 Post contains images HighFlyer9790 : Im not saying its because of a baseball player...im saying that it wont be daily, like i said flight will increase in summer though. no one person co
43 HighFlyer9790 : id also say that terminal E is busy from 4pm to 9:30pm, only because there are a lot of flight departing and arriving at that time...to name a few: V
44 B52murph : I certainly do know BOS, having flown out of there over 30 times between the late-70s (growing up) and 2000/2001 (when MHT really started getting goo
45 SQ452 : Wow, im beginning to think you don't like Boston or don't want this route to be successful if/when it launches! This route wouldnt be because of Dice
46 B752OS : Boston has the Largest population of College students in the country hands down. Boston also sees a large amount of international students, the large
47 Airbazar : I won't even get into the MHT vs. BOS debate, or comment on the highly informative "BOS sucks" statements that tend to pop-up every now and then. When
48 B752OS : My comments were not aimed at starting a BOS vs. MHT argument in case that's what you thought. I was just stating a simple fact that BOS is much bigg
49 Incitatus : That is indeed funny. There is plenty of Boston-Asia traffic to support a single daily flight to Narita. The problem is Narita's connectivity is poor
50 MAH4546 : Agreed, Narita doesn't provide that much connectivity to the US. I actually think that Seoul would be a better option for Boston, Miami, or Philadelp
51 B52murph : More world-class? By no means. More friendly for U.S. domestic service? Yes. As to LHR, I haven't been there since 1990, so I cannot compare. But, as
52 Bartond : I think what was being asked is where is the website that you can go to and find out information like how many people fly from BOS-Tokyo per day. I w
53 HighFlyer9790 : 14/32 has helped some, but BOS still needs another northwest/southeast runway with no noise restrictions thats 10,000ft and is CAT III. was that aime
54 Post contains images Walter747 : KE served BOS before they stopped just before 9/11. Yea but they are on Beech-1900 D's. With 1 outbound flight a day. That doesn't make a huge differ
55 Curticool : I Wouldn't Hold Your Breath Until The 787'S Come Out It Could Be A While
56 Post contains images SQ452 : Don't know where just going off what the massport CEO said Not at all high flyer, im with you,...it was directed towards MAH4546's remarks. I want to
57 ConcordeBoy : Do college students typically buy unrestricted and premium fares? No.
58 SQ452 : Let me rephrase that for you then...does Philly have a higher ASIAN STUDENT POPULATION than Boston? The answer to that is no... (and you'd be surpris
59 Chrisk : It's not a question of population. What matters is demand, and BOS has a lot more than PHL. If you look at DOT and MIDT data, you'll see that BOS has
60 Carpethead : Has NW ever shown interest in operating NRT-BOS? The 787 would definitely work for them considering their good connection beyond to East Asia at their
61 EVA777SEA : Can you provide a link to intl O&D figures from the DOT? I've always been interested in those numbers. While yes he did help boost tourism from Asia
62 BAGoldEx : Interesting, so what is next week's assessment going to be, it would work out daily with an A380?
63 Airbazar : NW would be a shoo-in for this route with a 787 given their hub at NRT and their privileged location at the International terminal at BOS.
64 ChrisNH : I hope so. It would be a shame for the 787 to come along and then get assigned to existing routes that could be easily done with aircraft already in
65 B752OS : Are you trying to insult his assessment of the route? He made a great point that once they get their 787s, NW would be a great fit for the BOS-NRT ro
66 LH423 : Actually, you'd be surprised the number of students that travel on unrestricted fares and premium classes. Not the backpackers going to bum around Eu
67 ChrisNH : It could. I wouldn't begrudge them opening new routes out of MSP; that is, after all, their home base. But the key is to see NEW routes being opened
68 Gigneil : United was going to launch BOS-NRT as part of the US Airways merger back in the day... If US really has Asian hopes and dreams, they might do wise to
69 NW748i : I doubt that would happen. DTW-AMS justifies something larger than the 788. In my opinion, it gives NW reason to at least consider the 748i. A380 wou
70 Airbazar : And those that do get scolarships often get their transportation expenses paid for which means price is not an issue. A friend of mine attended Harva
71 Bobnwa : Chris, shouldn't NWA operate the 787 where it can make the most money, and not worry about looking "silly" to a few airliner . net members. Who are a
72 B752OS : I remember looking at UA's website and they had a route map qwith all the new routes that were going to start once the merger took place. BOS-YVR, BO
73 ChrisNH : I don't disagree that the focus should be on making money, but admit this much: The 787 has been touted as a plane that can/will connect city pairs t
74 Gigneil : NW doesn't even operate the 744 on DTW-AMS. The flexibility of frequency is far preferable to them. NS
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