Ceilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 910 times:
This could be something to do the fact that the last airline to try operations out of the USA to Africa (IAD-JNB) was USAfrica Airlines with an MD11 leased from American Airlines and it lasted about two months! Prior to that, the only major US operator was Pan Am.
Generally, pax wanting to go US - Africa go via Europe, and down on BA, KLM or Sabena.
747sp_rulez From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 869 times:
Delta codeshares with South African on flights to JNB and CPT from New York and Atlanta respectively. NW codeshares with KLM and UA with Lufthansa. I think most Americans would find it too far to come all the way down to South Africa (as would South Africans find it too long a trek to go all the way to Hawaii, when we can just pop along to Mauritious), and would rather go to somewhere closer such as Cairo. There are direct flights to the US from a few African countries, such a Morocco, Egypt, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Angola (south America), South Africa, and probably a few more, but I don't think the market is big enough.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 866 times:
I think that Cairo is considered to be a part of Delta's middle East operations, in much the same way Tel Aviv is a mideast destination, rather than an Asian one.
I think it's unlikely that a US carrier will begin African services any time soon, especially given the global alliances that airlines are a part of. Perhaps, a US based carrier may begin services to South Africa in the next few years. Currently, Africa is at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to US based business and geo-political interests. However, if business interests between the US and Africa increase over the next decade given President Clinton's recent visit to Africa (and if governments in Africa stabilize, etc etc) then, perhaps, we will see direct flights from the US to Africa on US carriers.
There are, of course, direct flights by African carriers into the US. Ethiopian, SAA, Air Afrique, RAM all fly directly to the US.
Ed Toner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 863 times:
TWA used to fly to Africa. Dar Es Salaam, Kenya, and Nairobi. I flew it a few times. Mostly empty, and airport conditions were awful.
Today Africa is in turmoil. Civil wars, whites having their property confiscated, huge national debts (always forgiven, it seems), the highest AIDS rate in the world, ebola, and..... hey, you'd wanna be outa your mind, OK?
N960AS From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 466 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 848 times:
When did TW fly to East Africa? I never knew that. Also by the way Ed Toner, that is the most sweeping generalization about an entire continent I have ever heard!
I have to agree with everyone that alliances are probably a big reason. There doesn't seem to be any mega-airlines in the US these days, like Pan Am and TW once were. I'm sure load factors aren't large enough for the planes need to fly the mostly pretty long routes. Also there probably aren't many business travlers and not enough tourists to make up for it. And then there is poltical situations...
Don't forget Ghana Airways still flies to JFK from Accra. I've also seen Air Gabon 742s at JFK. Oh and Egypt Air. They fly CAI-JFK-LAX, usually with 772s. Egypt is in Africa, but also in the Middle East. Remember the Middle East isn't really a conintent more a somewhat political and geographically grouping, I guess like Western/Eastern Europe. But not really.
So I guess right now TW is the only US airline that truely flies to Africa.
Johnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2472 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 841 times:
This isn't really pertaining to the topic, but South African Airways is planning to start another flight from Jo'burg-Lagos-JFK in the near future (temporarily on hold). I believe a code-share with Nigeria Airways, no doubt for all those oil brokers wishing to avoid a trip via Europe.
Ceilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 824 times:
Hey Capt Ed!! How's it hangin'?
Having lived and worked in Africa for most of my life I do have to agree with Ed Toner. Africa, by and large, is a pretty awful place. I left Burundi after being shot up twice (it's in the middle of a civil war).
TWA was also involved in the set up of Ethiopian Airlines, as I recall. I also seem to recall that one of their aircraft was hijacked in Cairo or somewhere - certainly the PFLP hijacked a Pan Am 747 there which was subsequently blown up.
Ceilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 825 times:
This kinda sums up African ops, really!
Kinshasa - Ancient planes, pilots with dubious qualifications and a shoddy air traffic control system: the
skies over central Africa have all the ingredients for major air disasters.
On Wednesday, the latest disaster claimed at least 35 lives outside Luanda, Angola, when a
Russian-built Antonov-24 (An-24) plunged to the ground in flames. Angolan civil aviation authorities
have now banned all civilian Antonov flights.
It was the second major crash of an Antonov plane in central Africa in less than a month. In late
October, 48 people were killed in northern Angola when an Antonov-26 went down.
The two-propeller Antonovs - in addition to the An-24 and 26, there are the An-18 and 32 - are used
widely across Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), popular for their ability to transport
large amounts of freight and to land on almost any kind of runway.
The planes - frequently piloted by Russian or Ukrainian crews - are also durable and easy to repair.
In Congo, aviation authorities grounded a number of private airlines at the beginning of this year after
they determined their aircraft were poorly maintained. Many pilot licences and insurance certificates
there were from the former Soviet Union - therefore more than 10 years old.
More than 60 private airlines were also temporarily grounded in the DRC in 1999 after authorities
complained about the state of their fleets.
Civil aviation companies in the DRC should "improve their level of security and safety, with the goal to
reach norms (set by) the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO)," DRC Transport Minister Henri
Mova said in October.
Visitors to Kinshasa airport could think they were spending time at an aviation museum, instead of a
"When the Russian pilots and their planes - in particular the Antonovs - arrived at the beginning of the
1990s, that is when crashes and air disasters began happening," charged Rudahindwa Butume,
president of the Congolese national pilot's union.
Small private airlines have been mushrooming across central Africa, taking advantage of the
near-bankruptcy of state airlines.
The liberalisation of the air transport market has also given the private airlines the chance to buy cheap
planes from the former Soviet Union, and to find pilots "ready (to do) anything", Rudahindwa said.
When the war in Angola was at its height, "some of them flew up to ten times a day between Kinshasa
and Unita (the rebel National Union for the Total Independence of Angola) territory to replenish Jonas
Savimbi's men", he said.
"It cost 2 000 dollars a flight, and (the pilots) were always drunk," he added.
In Kinshasa, residents still remember the horror of January 8, 1996, when an Antonov could not take off
because it was so overloaded.
It plowed through a crowded market that had been illegally thrown up outside the airport perimeter,
killing at least 365 people. But Congolese sources put the death toll at more than 800 - many of the
victims were sliced to pieces by the propellers or crushed by the plane.
The sources' toll would make the disaster the worst in civil aviation history.
There are more than 180 airports in the DRC, in addition to countless private landing strips, but only 30
are under the authority of the national air traffic control authority.
Many of the airports lack basic communication equipment.
To make matters worse, most of the pilots from the former Soviet Union do not speak any English or
French, which makes communicating with air traffic controllers nearly impossible.
Civil aviation authorities claim to have no exact numbers on how many Russian planes fly throughout
the DRC, but one official put the number at around 50. - Sapa-AFP
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 814 times:
I don't know what really happened to US airlines in Africa. In the past TWA and Pan Am where kind of pioneers flying to those places but latter on they stopped flying. Africa still is as a great market, the only thibg it as to be donne is to select routes. For example TAP as been flying since 1946 to Guinea-Bissau, St. Tome Islands, Luanda, Maputo and their flights are always crowed with people, TAP flies currently with their A340-300 and also we have their national airlines like TAAG and LAM, both fly wide-body planes and they have a great sucess in their network, so I don't understand why US airlines don't fly there. I think if they had a flight like Joanesbourg/Luanda/NYC people didn't need to fly via Lisbon or any european city!
Ed Toner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 780 times:
I think this pretty well sums up what's wrong with Africa:
Africa has to get new breed of humans (Opinion)
The Monitor (Kampala)
January 4, 2000
By Ssekitooleko Deo
Kampala - I wish to agree with Charles Onyango-Obbo's article, "Slave Trade
Our Best, Left Us Chaff" (The Monitor Dec. 08). I go a step further to suggest
Africa is to rediscover itself, it must acquire new, improved breeds of not only
plants and animal species but also humans.
This can be done through cross-breeding with superior human beings from other
continents; inviting our relatives, the Afro-Americans, to come back and occupy
our highest political and economic positions, and recalling the colonialists to
govern us for a specific period. The latter can be done by privatising the political
structure of our governments.
With the advent of genetic engineering, we have seen increased milk production,
eaten chicken of only two months old, and acquired clonal coffee which matures
a couple of years.
All this has been possible because the Agriculture ministry recognised the
potential of new improved breeds of crops and animals.
The same formula can work with human beings.
However retrogressive it may appear, there is no doubt that Europeans have been
the best breed of human species, followed by Asians.
At the bottom of the list are black Africans.
The African morphology, dark colouration, greed, lack of intellect, failure to
internalise theories and lack of interest in preserving our best things clearly show
that we are an inferior people.
It is universally accepted that any specie that practices cannibalism against
members of its kind is primitive. Look at African politicians, butchering whole
ethnic groups, starving whole populations.
Since it is beyond doubt that almost all Africans in positions of power tend to
misuse it, it is logical to conclude that there is a problem with the stock from
which our leaders come.
Even our intellectuals, public servants and business people are of poor stock.
In recent times, the American breed of human species has out-competed the
European breed, the main reason being that the American stock is an improved
It is a mixture of the Europe's, Asia's, and Africa's best breeds.
Americans continue to improve their human stock through the Green Lottery
project whereby they admit into the US at least 60,000 superior individuals from
over the world.
Now, if Americans are so serious about the quality of humans entering their
country, how could they have bought chaff as slaves, leaving the best behind?
Let's face the fact that the best were taken, we are descendants of the chaff and
that is why we cannot live at peace with ourselves and cannot exploit our
to the full.
I wish to suggest that if Africans were evolving at the same pace with Europeans,
then those Africans who had attained a high evolutionary level; both social and
biological, were taken away as slaves and only chaff remained.
Why is it that all African leaders can't think beyond their life spans?
Almost all of them made constitutions which suited them but not their nations.
They introduced police regimes, enriched themselves at the expense of their
nations and jailed or murdered their political opponents.
Kwame Nkrumah, Milton Obote, Julius Nyerere, Kenneth Kaunda, Houphouet-
Boigny, Kamuzu Banda, etc. were all descendants of the chaff.
When these sons of the chaff failed to fulfil the independence promises and
power massively, they were toppled by army generals who became even worse.
The generals killed, raped, and some even practised cannibalism - Jean Bedel
Bokassa, Idi Amin, Mengistu Haile Mariam, Mobutu Sese Seko, Sani Abacha,
Finally, the generals have been replaced with the so-called "new breed" of
leaders -- Yoweri Museveni, Paul Kagame, Laurent Kabila, Isias Aferweki and
These leaders mainly captured power through popular revolutions. But many of
them have since formed one party systems, in some cases disguised as
movements. They have personalised armies, fought each other, looked on
helplessly as their relatives plunder national treasuries and worse still, they are
prepared to quit power peacefully.
The African intelligentsia is another category of chaff that pollutes the African
Most of our professors are opportunists and cannot defend their opinions.
They change like chameleons and their political beliefs don't depend on research
Apolo Nsibambi, George Kanyeihamba, Tarsis Kabwegyere, Adonia Tiberondwa,
Edward Rugumayo, etc.
It is in fact amazing that a person of modest education like Maj. Gen. Salim
lectures them on development issues and is the only one has organised his
into a philosophy!
Whatever we may say, therefore, the fact remains our stock is of a poor quality
and there is an urgent need for "restocking."
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