We're Nuts From United States, joined Jun 2000, 5705 posts, RR: 30 Posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 13639 times:
I just got back from a Skybus open interview for flight attendants in Columbus. There were about 60 people there (standing room only!), but only 12 will flight attendant experience. We all got cut after the first round. Nevertheless I got some good information that you guys should know about.
First of all, they have 8 planes now, all leased. Their initial routes are going to be to Florida and California (we weren't told any cities). They plan on having a CASM 28% lower than Southwest, with ticket prices in the $10-$40 dollar range. How? Their planes are going to be flying duty-free shops with a captive audience. They plan on selling everything from soda and food to toiletries (things you might have lost at security), and even nicer items like perfume, watches, and clothing. This is why us FA's were cut at the interview: they were looking for people with retail experience who they could train to fly. The starting pay is $9/hour + 10% of sales. I think most of the FA's were ready to leave at that point anyway, but for the people who hadn't flown before it might not look so bad. Anyway, I digress. Skybus is also going to sell virtually every part of the airplane as advertising space - overhead bins, tray tables, the exterior paint job, even the carpet. They will have no reservations center - everything will be done online. They will fly into secondary airports wherever possible, and try to avoid competition. As the director of HR told the group "we aren't out to upset the Southwest's of the world". With prices that low, he's probably correct in that Skybus will be creating an entirely new market for itself.
Anyway, that's the skinny. Operations are set to begin on May 1st, so we'll see if it "flies", as they say.
Articulatexpat From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Sep 2006, 132 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 13638 times:
How long does FA training normally last? They're looking for people with retail but no previous flying experience? And the goal is to begin operations on May 1? That's a little alarming.
07: ICN KUL CNX BKK PVG TPE. 08: ICN HKG SIN PEK BKK THS UTH
We're Nuts From United States, joined Jun 2000, 5705 posts, RR: 30 Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 13586 times:
Quoting Articulatexpat (Reply 1): How long does FA training normally last? They're looking for people with retail but no previous flying experience? And the goal is to begin operations on May 1? That's a little alarming.
For Skybus, and this is a total guess, I would say four weeks. I'm sure they focus more on selling techniques than I'd feel comfortable with, but the program has obviously satisfied the FAA as there are people going through class now.
Spinkid From United States, joined Jul 2001, 907 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 13562 times:
Wow, it all sounds very interesting. I would certainly try them out to see my sister in Columbus. I wonder if there will be a hard sell on the plane, sort of like a live in flight QVC.
BlueElephant From United States, joined Dec 2006, 1324 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 13413 times:
Thanks for the Update!
Much of this info is fairly interesting.
A Couple of weeks ago, A Manager from Skybus came to my class to speak.
To add a bit more info the subject.
Skybus plans to have an average of 7.5 sectors a day, and almost 15 hours a day utilisation..
When i spoke to the gentleman 3 or 4 weeks ago, he said they had 2 planes at the time...but now apparently they have 8.
I think this should hit some interesting points. If they now have 8 planes, with 7.5 sectors a day and 15 hours a day of utilisation....then Skybus may initially begin with only a city or two, but will expand rapidly.
And without directly competing against any airline, That leaves pretty much JAX, PBI and something like Clearwater or Naples. And in California, I think OAK and SAN.
However if this is the case, then all Skybus's info is contradictory...
How are you going to get 7.5 sectors per day, 15 hours of Utilisation AND keep the fares low...
ScottB From United States, joined Jul 2000, 4280 posts, RR: 33 Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 13274 times:
Quoting We're Nuts (Thread starter): They plan on having a CASM 28% lower than Southwest, with ticket prices in the $10-$40 dollar range. How? Their planes are going to be flying duty-free shops with a captive audience.
Well, technically that doesn't improve CASM -- it might improve RASM if the concept works. One significant contrast with Europe is that "duty-free" doesn't happen on domestic flights here, whereas most flying in Europe, though it is within a single "market," is still international.
Leasing the aircraft, even with high utilization, isn't likely to give them a significant CASM advantage, and WN will continue to enjoy benefits from their hedges for the next few years. Probably the single most significant CASM advantage they'll have is in pay rates -- from the $9/hour for flight attendants you mentioned to regional-level pay for the pilots.
I still can't see CMH as being a large enough market for the concept to work.
Flyabunch From United States, joined Nov 2004, 494 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 13231 times:
I don't think I will be one of their early passengers. If they even last a couple of years, I might try them...but I am not holding my breath. Their business model is definitely not aimed at business travelers.
FlyCMH From United States, joined Jul 1999, 2194 posts, RR: 16 Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 22 hours ago) and read 13232 times:
It won't work, especially with some of the markets I'm hearing. I figured California would appear on the route map, since they'll be able to take advantage of marketing incentives and landing fee waivers the airport grants to airlines that initiate service to the top 20 or so destinations not served nonstop from Columbus. Even with the incentive package, however, I don't know how they'll realize 7.5 sectors a day with 8 aircraft, in addition to charging $40-some dollars for a flight and only having bookings available online. Other than California and Florida, I have been hearing destinations in Texas and, of all places, Michigan as well. Whatever happens, I'm sure it'll be fun to watch.
Brakes released, steering in-op, you are clear to push.
Drewwright From United States, joined May 2001, 613 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 13215 times:
Looks like a sinking ship to me and it hasn't even set sail.
I really hope they have a hard time finding experienced Airbus captains willing to work for a $65,000 first year salary. Same goes for flight attendants...$9/hr plus commission? F that s...
Deregulation has gone too far.
FlyCMH From United States, joined Jul 1999, 2194 posts, RR: 16 Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 13179 times:
Quote: For Skybus, and this is a total guess, I would say four weeks. I'm sure they focus more on selling techniques than I'd feel comfortable with, but the program has obviously satisfied the FAA as there are people going through class now.
This is likely what concerns me most about their proposed operation. If the focus is on hocking merchandise inflight rather than what to do in case of an emergency, then I am not ever setting foot on one of their aircraft. In addition, I have heard they plan a seating capacity of 150 on their A319s. I thought that in order to evacuate an A319 in the government-mandated alloted time, a secondary overwing exit was needed, similar to easyJet's 156-seat A319s, as seen below:
Even though their planes are likely never going to be full, it's still a worry.
Also, their ground boarding idea is a disaster waiting to happen. First off, Columbus is not Long Beach, where the weather and the field conditions allow for relatively hassle-free open-air boarding operations. I can guarantee it's going to be rough trying to board 3 or 4 150-seat aircraft, from the ground, in the ice, snow, and/or cold, and assume the average passenger will find their way to the correct aircraft and not hurt themselves in the process. I can't even imagine what their first air-start will be like, or how many people are going to be run over by poorly-trained ramp servicemen driving around on belt-loaders, airstairs, and tugs in an area of the terminal that was not meant for 4 aircraft positions. If their poorly executed business plan doesn't kill them, the lawsuits will.
And lastly, if they expect a start date of 01 May, they'd better also be expecting to be flying quite a few empty planes! That only leaves a month and a half to book flights, assuming they were to begin taking bookings tomorrow!
Brakes released, steering in-op, you are clear to push.
MCOflyer From United States, joined Jun 2006, 7859 posts, RR: 16 Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 12922 times:
Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 16): I thought that in order to evacuate an A319 in the government-mandated alloted time, a secondary overwing exit was needed, similar to easyJet's 156-seat A319s, as seen below:
In the UK its necessary. I would think it would be the same for FAA regulations.
TOLtommy From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2583 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 12923 times:
So let me see if I've got this straight. The first routes are going to be California and Florida, but they are going to fly an average of 7.5 segments a day? There will need to be some east coast destinations in order for that to happen.
When I interviewed for a position with Skybus, I was told that all flying would be one day trips, no layovers. The Director of HR (a man with the initials FN, right?) is new to the industry, and is able to think outside the box. I was told that FA flight pay would be around the regional level ($15/flight hour or so), plus the commission for onboard sales. They tried to sell it to me that the FA's would actually be earning more than a lot of airlines. Sounds like that has changed. Too bad. You'll get what you pay for.
It's interesting to hear so many of you have concerns about safety. The conversations I had with Skybus were heavily focused on generated ancillary revenue. There was next to no talk of running a safe, professional airline. I left the building very concerned that they would offer me the job! I know the business model relies on a lot of revenue besides airfare, but you've got to focus on the basics first. And safety always has to be #1.
TOLtommy From United States, joined Dec 2003, 2583 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 12898 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 12): One significant contrast with Europe is that "duty-free" doesn't happen on domestic flights here, whereas most flying in Europe, though it is within a single "market," is still international.
I believe duty free sales have been eliminated for passengers travelling between destinations covered by Schengen treaty.
SkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 12870 times:
Well good luck to all you applicants out there. May 1 start up? Ok, that would mean your unemployment checks should begin in time for Christmas. This bad bus ain't going nowhere different than dozens of it's predecessors went. All that wasted money, such a shame. Give some of it to people who really need it!
BlueElephant From United States, joined Dec 2006, 1324 posts, RR: 6 Reply 25, posted (2 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 12870 times:
Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 22): So let me see if I've got this straight. The first routes are going to be California and Florida, but they are going to fly an average of 7.5 segments a day? There will need to be some east coast destinations in order for that to happen.
Exactly what i'm saying...there is no way that they're going to 7.5 sectors a day...unless 2 or 3 planes fly FL and CA maybe twice a day. And the other 5 fly a whole ton of really short haul flights.
Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 22): When I interviewed for a position with Skybus, I was told that all flying would be one day trips, no layovers
I was told the the crew should be returning to their gateway every evening. This is an very interesting aspect of crew management and planning. Just wait until you get more aircraft, and see how plausible its going to be. It seems like they're in for a schedule planning nightmare.
Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 22): It's interesting to hear so many of you have concerns about safety.
Interesting to hear you all say this. The Gentleman i spoke with was actually a safety manager for the company as the class was for Aviation Safety. And he seemed quite adamant that Skybus will be a safe airline. In fact If i Recall correctly..they're planning an emergency evacuation drill here in CMH pretty soon.
26 OPNLguy: That's because you're dealing with more of the "PR" and "Marketing" side of the airline, i.e. front-line customer interface via the F/As. I have no d
27 EvilForce: Who exactly do you think "needs it"? Last time I checked it's America, and people laughed at companies such as FedEx, JambaJuice, and Apple Computer
28 We're Nuts: Yeah, we met the same guy. The pay is terrible for a standard airline - $9/flight hour with no per diem and no garuantee. They are really banking on
30 LHboyatDTW: I'm suprised the FAA hasn't gotten on their case yet, otherwise they'd be damned lucky if they can fly. They're hiring glorified sales clerks for cryi
31 Ikramerica: This sounds disgusting. Making F/As work on commission, based on how much they can harass customers? At 7.5 segments a day, that means red-eyes. Red-e
32 MasseyBrown: IFE will be all shopping channels and infomercials?
33 EvilForce: Don't forget bleecher type seating. After 2 hours sitting on it you'll pay $ 20 for a Skybus rump pad.
34 F9Animal: They are going to seriously find major turnover with this method of employing flight attendants. Not only that, but we will see more assaults at 35,0
35 MCOflyer: Good point. Can anyone confirm whether their a/c will two exits per side? MCOflyer
36 Manni: No, duty free has been eliminated on all flights between EU members states and has been replaced by the Travel Value program. The prices of Travel Va
37 PExDCA: Perhaps the have Joan Rivers lined up to pitch jewelery over the PA system inflight! At PE, we made boarding with not jetways at EWR work for 5 years
38 FlyingTexan: Going to be real "funny" when these a.net kids are flying around on Skybus because that is all they can afford. And this airline (Skybus) has a SWA L
39 Osiris30: Hrmmm $9/hr FAs, comission based.. cheap fares (which means lowest common denominator on board).. I think I'll pass to be honest. I am hopeful that st
40 AirRyan: I got you - but I still feel that FA's on the whole are one of the last "overpaid" bastions in the country. From Southwest's website: On paged 103 in
41 EvilForce: LMAO. You use one example of someone making more money than you, so you declare them overpaid? I just hope you don't look up the pay rates for NWA ga
42 JetBlueGuy2006: I think it will be very plausible. Allegiant has a lot of aircraft and they make it work. The flight crews are able to be at their bases every night.
43 XT6Wagon: I'm just wondering how long it will take Airbus to remove their order from the books when this collection of bad ideas goes under.
44 Max999: Ryanair is one of the most profitable and successful airlines in Europe. In fact, I believe their net income is higher than many legacy airlines arou
45 AvroArrow: I can see it now, the captain will crank the cabin temp up to 30 degrees C and the IFE movie will be nothing but footage of the desert just to boost b
46 JetJock22: I wonder who Skubus' a/c will get sold to on May 2nd.....
47 N770WD: Skybus has been in active development for four years. They raised a lot of money from prime investors and ordered new aircraft. All the while they ke
48 EvilForce: And there you have it ladies and gentlemen. It's not about Skybus, it's about Airbus, and hoping they lose 65 orders. If those were 65 Boeing orders
49 Jacobin777: . not it hasn't, in fact, this is the beauty of deregulation..let the consumer choose what he/she wants...if people want F/A's to sell them products
50 DeltaRules: I don't know if this will last or not, but I'm interested to see what happens & how Skybus does. I agree. I've been surprised to see the advertising I
51 BlueElephant: Yeah there are a bunch of Billboards around. And the reason you see them at the Columbus Blue Jackets game...is because they play at the Nationwide A
52 F9Animal: There is alot more than popping open cokes and serving meals. When an emergency happens, it is when you ask if they really get paid enough. When your
53 AirTran717: With just one aircraft type, it would generally be about 3-4 weeks for FA training. The general rule is to add a week to that per every new type. At
54 Ikramerica: Is there an inherent flaw in the business model? The cheapest airline on earth, pursuing the cheapest customers, only selling tickets over the interne
55 N844AA: I dunno, seems to me there was just as much skepticism and eye-rolling when Primaris announced its "order" for the 787. The Skybus model sounds, to m
56 AirTran717: To my knowledge, the only mandate regarding evacuations is how many fa's per pax ratios. 1 FA per every 50 pax. If they fly 156, that is 4 FAs. I don
57 We're Nuts: Pay rates for flight crews are exceedingly complicated, so it's impossible for me to speak to that situation. However I can tell you about my own. At
58 XT6Wagon: I'm sorry?? I'm supposed to act like an airline that barely has any cash can actually afford to buy 60 A319? Gee, Let me go trade my truck in on a de
59 Dsa: Sorry everyone but all most of you do is moan and snipe at the people who are running this airline, they have put time, effort and passion into this a
60 AirTran717: I'm not opposed to Airbus at all. I've been a passenger on some of the 319's. Nice planes from a passenger standpoint as well as a crewmember standpo
61 Ikramerica: This is why the western world is falling apart. People who waste money, time and energy on stupid ideas or ideas that are not thought through deserve
62 Max999: I believe that Skybus is based out of Columbus, Ohio. There quite a few large population centers within short flying distance from that city such as
63 Ikramerica: Into stiff competition from UA, DL, CO, AA, US, NW, etc. Further, while the fares will be cheaper, we'll see if those $10-40 fares are inclusive of t
64 Etops1: $9.00 an hr? this is a disgrace to the f/a profession. i mean how low can people go to do this job?how much are they paying the pillots? $15.00 an hr?
65 Jacobin777: to survive, and expand they way it wants to, Skybus will need to serve transcon....otherwise it was better off being a "regional jet"..... and as prop
66 Grantcv: Okay, so their business plan is to sell tickets to people that are too cheap or poor to fly on the other airlines, and then make their money selling t
67 Pe@rson: Indeed. It is scheduled to make a full-year net profit, i.e. after tax and other deductions, of US$512m or thereabouts. Should be announced in the ne
68 Knope2001: I am certainly very skeptical of this airline's prospects, but I do think a lot of people will bite for low fares but spend money like fools onboard.
69 MarcoT: ??? Your first post in this thread was this completely gratuitous attempt at an A vs B flamebait: quoted in its whopping two full lines integrity, an
70 MarcoT: ??? Your first post in this thread was this completely gratuitous attempt at an A vs B flamebait: (quoted in its whopping two full lines integrity),
71 ScottB: I simply do not understand why there is this idea that anyone who can attract money from investors to start an airline is incredibly intelligent and
72 XT6Wagon: NO, you chose to take it as A vs B flamebait. I think some people might need to grow some thicker skin, after all I recall someone on this site once
73 AirRyan: Maybe its just the former Marine aircrew in me but no offense, if the schieze ever hit the fan I wouldn't be one waiting for a FA to help me egress!
74 FutureFO: Skybus is not going to last as long as Indy Air. If their primary focus is sales then they could care less about the safety of their passengers. I giv
75 Floridaflyboy: Oh grow up. There's nothing A vs. B about his statement. He's simply saying that from his perspective this whole venture will fail (something I agree
76 EvilForce: He deliberately invoked an attack on Airbus. Anyone apart from the usual set of Boeing hens clucking can see that.[Edited 2007-03-14 03:30:37]
77 TOLtommy: No actually it was on the Ops side, and it was above manager level. That's all I can say. Wow, I had no idea they were going to break the FA model th
78 FWAERJ: What's with all the Skybus bashing on a.net? People bashed JetBlue the same way when they launched, in ways like "Delta will crush them". I must admit
79 Jacobin777: You ar making a lot of assumptions there mate....
80 XT6Wagon: I missed the Jetblue fun , but atleast thier operating model is sane, even if thier expansion was a little reckless. Skybus is starting with nearly n
81 N844AA: B6 also launched in a market with slightly more O&D traffic.
82 Floridaflyboy: How was that an attack on Airbus? Unless I'm missing something hidden in his statement, I see it as completely harmless.
83 OPNLguy: There's a big difference between the "ops" on the forward side of the cockpit door, and the "ops" on the aft side of the cockpit door. I'm talking ab
84 ContnlEliteCMH: I see it clearly. I'm completely amazed at the faith people put in a flight attendant's ability to "get you off the airplane" in a disaster. If there
85 We're Nuts: That's basically how it was explained to us. Multiply that times 2 flights a day, 5 days a week. The only correction to your numbers is that Skybus p
86 AirWillie6475: We're nuts, you're from SEA why would you interview for Skybus they only base in CMH right? And more importatnly why would you even go for that scumba
87 Jacobin777: ....I guess I'll have to pull a "Leahy" and eat my own words... ... .....ok..then I'll say that Skybus is making a lot of assumptions...
88 F9Animal: Not really. Assuming that most people buy their perfume and cologne at a store. And if each FA got about $21.75 in their pocket, would that be based
89 F9Animal: Oh yes, one other opinion on sales. I HATE going to shop for a car. Some of those sales people are aggressive. Why? They live on commission. When you
90 MCOflyer: I'll give them 6 months too as FutureFO noted. MCOflyer
91 F9Animal: I really hope they make it. I just think the idea of what they intend on using their flight attendants for is going to flop.
92 We're Nuts: Well I didn't know anything about them until I got to the interview. But since I'm 20 that limits my choice of airlines considerably. Alaska and Hori
93 FlyCMH: Skybus awaiting approval from FAA Startup airline had hoped to be flying by March or April Thursday, March 15, 2007 Marla Matzer Rose THE COLUMBUS DIS
94 Stirling: Well you could always hide out in the lavatory....NO, wait, they'll stick you for a $1 a minute in there! Probably Lavatory tokens....they'll be more
95 TOLtommy: Most airlines guarantee 70-80 flight hours a month. Over 100 flight hours is a busy month, but lets say they fly 100/month. Thats $900 in flight pay.
96 F9Animal: I gave it some more thought. If Skybus is paying $9.00 an hour to start, plus commission for sales, how long do you think it will take before Skybus f
97 We're Nuts: The word "safety" was used twice during their presentation, both times in the context of "our primary concern is safety, but our number one goal is s
98 OPNLguy: With all due respect, you seem to be assuming alot, not to mention not keeping things in context. Safety is always the priority, on either side of th
99 S5FA170: I would just like to say, in Vanguard's defense as they are, still to this day, my favorite airline: Vanguard's financial performance was improving w
100 AirTran717: ... and terribly uneducated about the subject in which you post, not to mention overtly offensive. I've already stated that in the month's worth of t
101 TOLtommy: So what happens if one gets in the way of the other? I find that quote very very interesting.
102 OPNLguy: Yeah, you're right--30 years in the airine biz, WTF do I know...
103 Wjcandee: Look...I don't think these Skybus guys have the remotest chance of growing to the size that they plan to grow to, although they might be around long e
104 We're Nuts: I'm sure Skybus loves that the safety of their potential airline is being discussed at length on the world's largest aviation website. I'm betting the
105 Mariner: Well, yes, maybe. But their critical problem was the amount of accumulated debt. The original idea of Vanguard - connecting the Heartland dots - was
106 Superfreak: Do you think anyone should be happy to see that a non-flying airline's level of safety is being criticized by a bunch of people who don't really even
107 We're Nuts: Because I work in the industry and I know that airlines above all are formulaic. Even mavericks like Southwest and jetBlue, boiled down, are indistin
108 Superfreak: Thank you for making my point for me by basing your statement on yet another brash assumption. I don't recall seeing any evidence whatsoever to sugge
109 Mnevans: An update on their plans. According to TravelWeekly "Skybus, the aspiring Columbus, Ohio-based carrier that has described itself as "ultra-low fare,"
110 PExDCA: Having lived there, I can tell you the answer is no. Back in the late 80's U.S. Air tried using CMH as a sort of focus city and it tanked. Then in th
111 Rampart: Granted, I don't know a whole lot about Ohio. Cleveland seemed interesting in my couple visits, and I liked Toledo for some reason. But is Columbus m
112 PExDCA: I think it would generate SOME traffic, perhaps just not enough. Look at other state capitals of much larger states like SAC, TLH, AUS, ALB, TTN, BTR
113 BlueElephant: I feel that something is very understated in this thread, in regards to Columbus being a Skybus hub. Please keep in mind that if Skybus is using a Ry
114 Mnevans: Having lived in Ohio my whole life, Cleveland for the first 16 and Columbus now for 5, the amount of business in Columbus actually trumps that of Cle
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