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Frontier To Close Fresno  
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7861 times:

Frontier announced that they will terminate service to Fresno on June 15.

101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9668 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7816 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Wow, that didn't last long?

Or was it seasonal service?


User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7783 times:

Aww, poor FAT. lol I was happy for more service to Fresno. That sucks... 

KPDX  

[Edited 2007-03-13 14:41:40]


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User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

NOW will they open up RDU? I mean, it's long overdue and it is one of their highest requested destinations.. I mean, come on.. Work WITH me here!!! They could even share a gate with AirTran for the amount of flights they would offer.. (assuming 2 to begin with)..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17827 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7750 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
NOW will they open up RDU?

No.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
No.

I figured as much.. but it can't hurt to ask.. c'est la vie!



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7713 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
I mean, it's long overdue and it is one of their highest requested destinations..

Just curious...how do you know that? Or are you assuming that you ask enough make it rise to the top of the list by yourself?  Smile



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7694 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 6):
Just curious...how do you know that? Or are you assuming that you ask enough make it rise to the top of the list by yourself? Smile

I read it somewhere.. can't remember where so it's not quotable.. but I do recall that when BDL was announced, it was the 2nd most requested and I recall reading/hearing that RDU was the first..

but as always, I could be wrong and I reserve the right to be wrong without condemnation..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7653 times:

No biggie...I was just curious, I have no information in either case.

I asked because of all the places Frontier does and doesn't serve, Raleigh-Durham probably wouldn't have been one of my 10 first guesses as to most-requested service...so if there were a story behind it, I fiigured it might be interesting.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7620 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 8):
I asked because of all the places Frontier does and doesn't serve, Raleigh-Durham probably wouldn't have been one of my 10 first guesses as to most-requested service...so if there were a story behind it, I fiigured it might be interesting.

Until April 24 when UA starts service, it's the largest metro without service to DEN. But it still has more O&D than a lot of the markets F9 already serves.. averaging about 330 daily pax.. and UA will be serving it with the 100 seat 735, then dropping it to the 70 seat E70.. so there is still room for F9 to come in if they wanted.. but I digress..

Its one of the top 10 because it is one of the places you can't get to non-stop from DEN on any airline..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7482 times:

7 out of the first 10 posts are about RDU? Talk about thread hijacking.  Wink

This is a heck of news to wake up to this morning, I hate to see Frontier go since they have helped keep many eastbound fares low.

Unfortunately they made several moves in Fresno that hurt them in my mind.
**Started the service in Sept 2005, the start of a slow season at FAT.
**Did not publicize the move to mainline flights that occurred in January 2007. I have yet to hear from anyone offline that knew it was now mainline and that they knew what the service level was like onboard.
**Left the route as a single daily flight since January. There was little flexibility in planning trips.

The single frequency hurts competitively, for example, since the UConn women are playing in the NCAA Fresno Regional but the only way to use Frontier BDL-FAT (if they win their first 2 games) is a 12 hour layover at DEN. In fact 2/3s of the teams (and fans) in the Fresno Regional are from east of the Mississippi but would have poor connections on Frontier if they win their way to Fresno.
**Did not add a Mexico destination from FAT. FAT and SNA were the only F9 cities in California that did not get flights to Mexico.
** Leaving an airport that has seen consistent growth in passengers for years now.

I do wish Frontier well. I wouldn't be surprised to see them back someday. But until then,  wave 



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26169 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

Quoting Azstar (Thread starter):
Frontier announced that they will terminate service to Fresno on June 15.

Kinda of odd to drop a route just as peak summer travel is about to start.

Either the market was bleeding badly, or F9 needs to plane to serve something else more profitably.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

Keep in mind FAT still has UA to Denver, as well as quite a few other carriers. Two carriers on one route, even Fresno, is quite a bit of competition.

Sorry for FAT's loss. But the way airlines are adding service, it won't be long before someone else comes in and fills the gap.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7397 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 10):
7 out of the first 10 posts are about RDU? Talk about thread hijacking.

Happens frequently

I wonder why they dropped the station altogether. A swap out to JetExpress could have allowed F9 to use the Airbus to a heavier market and still maintain service to a growing region.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWhatUsaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7198 times:

They'd told FAT administration at every turn they were bleeding... I suspect that they burned through the grant monies that brought them to town quickly. I don't think they really understood this market from the beginning. CO would have been a better choice for the fed funds... Another case study as to why subsidies do not work?

I wonder what Mike Boyd is saying about this? He was pretty much responsible for getting the service....


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25698 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7170 times:
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Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
Either the market was bleeding badly, or F9 needs to plane to serve something else more profitably.

A combination of both.

The service did extremely well in summer with load factors in the mid-80's, but that was not enough to sustain the slow months.

However, I am told that the equipment will be used for a new city that will be announced "shortly".

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2451 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 10):
7 out of the first 10 posts are about RDU? Talk about thread hijacking

You really should expect nothing less from our RDU obsessed friend....

He could take a thread about AS starting SEA-HNL and wonder why RDU didn't get some....



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17827 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7145 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
A swap out to JetExpress could have allowed F9 to use the Airbus to a heavier market and still maintain service to a growing region

I don't think they sent mainline aircraft to FAT because there were other "growing regions".



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
A swap out to JetExpress could have allowed F9 to use the Airbus to a heavier market and still maintain service to a growing region.

That's what I would have thought...

Perhaps when more Republic ERJ-170s come in, they can restart the service...

F9 has discontinued markets and returned to them in the past. STL pops to my mind....



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25698 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 7069 times:
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Quoting BA (Reply 18):
That's what I would have thought...

It was Jet Express - 2 x daily - until January, when the first two Horizon CR7's left the fleet. It became 1 x daily mainline because of aircraft availability issues, but I would think the writing was already on the wall.

Frontier was always a bit reluctant abut FAT - the grant was on the table for some time before they accepted it - and that grant caused some small bad blood with United, as Mike Boyd notes.

Unless there was some strategic value to FAT, I think it is a wise decision to send aircraft where they can better earn their keep.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5846 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6985 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 12):
Keep in mind FAT still has UA to Denver, as well as quite a few other carriers. Two carriers on one route, even Fresno, is quite a bit of competition.

The problem is going to be the impact on fares here this summer. Losing that many seats eastbound will really hurt unless someone else adds seats to the east.

Consider the load factors last summer. All carriers at FAT averaged 89% load factors in June 2006. AA to DFW ran at 98% and DLConn to SLC was 91%. Frontier was 88%

Frontier had 2 CR7s in the above load factor last summer. Without those seats we here in Fresno are looking at a very high priced summer to go east.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19259 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 2):
FAT

Hardly a coincidence that FAT is in the U.S.A.  Silly



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

This is kinda sad for FAT. Do they currently have the service on UA or UAX? If so, its sad for a lost of a carrier, but if the route is still available, that is good. If not, then that sux.

But on the upside, they do have XJet coming in to offer some service. Perhaps down the road, XJet will offer COS service to compensate?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Happens frequently



Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 16):
You really should expect nothing less from our RDU obsessed friend....

He could take a thread about AS starting SEA-HNL and wonder why RDU didn't get some....

Did I do that??? Big grin My bad.. I'll work on that..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6962 times:

I would hope that AA might now take a look and add the 3rd seasonal DFW flight that we had several years ago..or better yet..add a Chicago flight...I can only hope!

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6944 times:

How is service at FAT? Was there a pax increase over the past year? 3 years? or has is been stagnant?


Aiming High and going far..
25 WhatUsaid : Pax growth has been above the national average, partly due to expanded service. FATflyer has the numbers, I'm sure. Well, a lousy couple of weeks for
26 Post contains images N1120A : SNA will never get Mexico service. Has FAT built its new FIS yet? Funny It stands for Fresno Air Terminal.
27 FATFlyer : The real problem is not going to Colorado but all the way to the east coast. The loss of a competitor with a hub that far east of FAT will hurt. As W
28 Post contains images FATFlyer : Since MX has been flying FAT-GDL since last April I hope they are using the FIS and not just a domestic gate.
29 Post contains images N1120A : You mean Mexico isn't pre-cleared and FAT doesn't have an FBO FIS Just Kidding.
30 OzarkD9S : I should be offended at this slight towards my countrymen and women but I'm laughing too hard!
31 Lincoln : But they changed the name of the airport to "Fresno Yosemite International"... as was told to me by relatives who still lived in the region both to c
32 N1120A : It isn't urban lore, Fresno has been trying for at least 5 years or so to change the code to FYI or something other than FAT. Much like MSY, which mo
33 FATFlyer : Longer, the airport was renamed Fresno Yosemite International in 1996. They started trying to change the code then, over 10 years ago.
34 N1120A : I thought the bigger push started later than that.
35 Post contains images CIDflyer : could be worse, those poor people in Sioux City, Iowa have the code SUX I've never been there, but I can't imagine it would be that bad!
36 FATFlyer : WhatUSaid might remember the timeline specifics, he was a little more tuned into airport news then I was when that was going on. I have all of that i
37 Post contains images Bicoastal : Ok, then. We'll say nothing about teeth and Brits, will we?? And, I can't say Brits aren't too far behind us on the scales......
38 LHPDX : I cannot believe Fresno is losing air service by Frontier ..This is absolutely terrible! I will not be able to sleep well tonight.....
39 Post contains images QXatFAT : Well look at LAS. Sure its a place of gathering for everyone, but you have G4, US, UAX flying there. So two carriers on one route is nothing. It is a
40 D L X : This pisses me off. FAT got a lot of money from the government to pay for F9 to come to FAT. What a waste - a waste we all knew was going to happen.
41 Post contains images Lincoln : That sounds about right -- last time I flew in/out of/through FAT was probably somewhere around 98/99 (that's the time at which my parents decided th
42 FATFlyer : Also the time of the drive. My neighbor told me last weekend that she and her husband are tired of flying to SFO or LAX then driving 4 hours home. So
43 LHRBFSTrident : it's very tempting to think of Fresno as the epitome of small town hicksville - but just in population terms it's bigger than Austin, TX (at least ac
44 Mariner : Half-hearted? It required some investment by Frontier, despite the grant, and I have little doubt they gave it their best shot. You can say their bes
45 Post contains images PanAm747 : Yes - United Express flies to LAX, SFO, and has Denver service. Other than UA Express and American Eagle to LAX, I believe that Denver was the only r
46 FATFlyer : The unemployment rate has dropped tremendously in the last few years, still higher than average but the area has been gaining ground. Fresno County's
47 Post contains links FATFlyer : There are 3 carriers on FAT-LAS, 2 on FAT-LAX. I just posted this on another board. The new motto is going to be "Cabo Wabo Fresno". Sammy Hagar is c
48 Post contains links QXatFAT : I am sorry but I do not understand what you are saying. DEN is a destination as well correct? So what makes the difference from flights to DEN or LAS
49 SpencerII : FAT city (Fresno Air Terminal) always has had an On again off again relationship with airlines. I think it probably will always be that way, as most f
50 PanAm747 : What I am trying to say is that, regardless of size, Fresno is not a "major" city such as Las Vegas or Denver. In California, the Bay Area, Sacrament
51 FATFlyer : I'll have to check with airport administration sometime. According to my spreadsheet 2004 was 1,112,214 passengers. Maybe my 2004 number is too low.
52 Lincoln : Wasn't Air21 (or whatever they were called) hubbed in FAT? I was also going to throw out Allegiant, but I think by the time they evolved from the FAT
53 F9Animal : Yes, Air 21 was based out of FAT. G4 was originally based out of FAT, but I think that changed when Gallagher and crew came on.
54 SpencerII : Allegiant was based in Fresno prior to their bankrupcty in December 2000
55 Post contains links WhatUsaid : Fresno, married to frequent flyer programs? That's the perception, but we've seen a significant increase in market share held by US in the market. To
56 Post contains links Laxintl : According to the State of CA, January 07 (latest month available) Fresno unemployment rate was 9.2%, compared lets say to Sacramento 5.3%, Los Angele
57 LHRBFSTrident : don't get me wrong - hats off to Frontier for trying - especially with a mainline A319: great passenger appeal over the older CRJ-200s one still sees
58 Post contains images FATFlyer : I think the Bay Area and LA/Orange County are the first tier. Sacramento and San Diego are 2nd tier to them, no matter what anyone thinks they do not
59 Post contains links GentFromAlaska : According to the DOT FAA, FAT enplanement data for CY04 was 538,394 and 574,012 in CY05 ranking FAT 110 for passenger boardings http://www.faa.gov/ai
60 RICguy : I have read this somewhere too. It may have been here for though.
61 Post contains images Laxintl : Nice. All this discussion over 1 flight at such a meager airport.
62 Mariner : If you don't have the aircraft, there isn't a lot you can do. Frontier had lost the two CR7's from the Horizon fleet in January, but rather than endi
63 FATFlyer : Yes still above the average as I said in the post. But as I also said, no region has seen a reduction in unemployment like Fresno County. That means
64 Post contains images FATFlyer : And they show it as 6.62% growth 2005 over 2004, a totally different number than mine or the one publicized in the link QXatFAT used. LOL, ah numbers
65 Airlinebrat : Reminds me of Allegiant.... Announce new service, wait three seconds then cancel those flights and pull out due to the lack of public knowledge that t
66 Post contains images QXatFAT : I am sure that it wont bother us if you do not get in the discussion If its not a big deal, its always better to not post IMO. Thanks for trying to c
67 CV990 : Hi! Well I was not very happy to open my computer this morning and see this news!!! But anyway FAT will keep growing, I'm sure and if Frontier goes, o
68 LHPDX : CV990......Are you a little passionate about this airport? The reality is, airlines will add or remove service depending on how the airport is perform
69 CV990 : Hi LHPDX! Why did you ask that???? And what do you think? After living there 1 year with all my family, I left there a lot of friends, my oldest son i
70 Tsnamm : Well now that CO is pulling out of BFL...maybe they might consider trying FAT.
71 FATFlyer : BFL expects that COEx will return in September. There was an equipment shortage this summer and BFL got the short straw. But there has been talk abou
72 LHPDX : CV990....Man it's ok..I feel the same way about PDX! I hope FAT get all the air service it deserves................
73 PanAm747 : As long as there is the Airport Bus Of Bakersfield and LAX and BUR are roughly the same distance from Bakersfield as Fresno, Bakersfieldians will NEV
74 Post contains links QXatFAT : Today there was a good article in the Fresno Bee explaining the withdraw of F9 from FAT (or as they still call it, FYI). It seems that the writer is s
75 FAT5DEP : I hear ya. When I would visit my dad in DEN and SFO I remember taking countless walks down that old rainbow concourse in the late 80's and early 90's
76 Post contains images FATFlyer : The disco look concourse was cool, well back when the look was still trendy anyway. But it was going down the terminal escalator into the tunnel then
77 MtnWest1979 : Just like the recent announcement of ending FAY service. I ,too, think an ACV-RDD- SLC/DEN trip may work, but I am not sure of the viability of a lot
78 GentFromAlaska : Our airport manager feels the FAA data is skewed, he thinks our airport enplanes more than what the FAA report says. I'm not sure if the enplanement
79 Post contains images FAT5DEP : Was this what it looked like? It appears there is an enclosed structure at end. The new one is nice but I miss the old one. It seemed to have charact
80 Post contains links FATFlyer : Exactly. PSA used the waiting room at the end, I remember going through a set of double doors. I believe there was also an enclosed gate area about w
81 WhatUsaid : Remember the good 'ol days when you could hang out in the open air concourse at the end and nobody would bother you? I remember rushing across town to
82 FATFlyer : I remember the history of those but my first personal experience with FAT was about 1973 or so and I didn't move here until years later. I have to re
83 Post contains images FAT5DEP : Oh thats right. I must have given my brain a leave of absence. I wasn't around then either but I have plenty of stories from my dad who was a UA pilo
84 WhatUsaid : Amazing photo!!! So, SFO must have been in the fog that day?
85 CMHSRQ : Airtran is up to 9 daily flights to 5 destinations Sunday to Friday and 10 flights to 6 destinations on Saturdays. The majority of the flights are 73
86 Frntman : From a very, very, very reliable source.......the new city will be in the southeast US.
87 Post contains images Mariner : I have a bet with myself on which one it is. mariner
88 ERJ170 : If you lose, how much will you have to pay yourself? So when will this city be announced?
89 CasInterest : However, I am told that the equipment will be used for a new city that will be announced "shortly". mariner I would generally want to go with RDU, it
90 Alphascan : If it was MIA, I suspect MAH would already have posted. Well he has, but that was over a year ago. At that time MIA had offered F9 a great enticement
91 ERJ170 : SE US markets that are likely candidates that is currently unserved.. in my opinion... Virginia: Norfolk & Richmond North Carolina: Charlotte, Greensb
92 Mariner : A couple of years ago, PBI was coaxing Frontier quite hard. Just as MIA was coaxing Fronter quite hard. I don't know where it is - and it could be so
93 GentFromAlaska : I know, I know MEM
94 ERJ170 : Ooops.. sorry.. forgot about West Palm..
95 WhatUsaid : Well, F9 leaves and US adds a 3rd FAT-LAS. Geez, we just can't get enough of LAS can we?
96 Airportguy1971 : Wow! A very GOOD guess, I'd say. Very good INDEED.
97 FATFlyer : 1 CR9 and 2 CRJs? And everything after 2PM? Well it is more seats for connections. But isn't it time they did a morning FAT-LAS? This now gives depar
98 ERJ170 : Back to the question at hand.. when is this announcement supposed to occur?
99 Post contains images FATFlyer : Uhmmm, the thread title talks about Frontier closing Fresno, not F9's next announcement. Some of us want to talk about the impact on FAT and how OAL'
100 Post contains links Ytib : http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070319/lam054.html?.v=86
101 SANFan : I don't believe a new a/c is needed for the new JAX service; F9 can just use an A319 that would otherwise RON in DEN. Looks to me like the freed-up FA
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