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Animals Dying On Commercial Flights  
User currently offlineNW7E7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 533 posts, RR: 5
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4895 times:

Burmese python dies during move from Alaska

"Belinda was shipped via Delta Airlines in a box. According to vonKoehnen, everything went as-planned until Belinda got to Atlanta."

"They put her at the wrong gate and left her at the wrong gate for five and a half hours, outside...."

"VonKoehnen says several Delta officials have told her there's nothing they're going to do about her loss."


"According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, from May 2005 to January 2007, three animals flying Delta Airlines have died, and that's compared to 17 on Continental Airlines, nine on American Airlines and eight on United Airlines."

They should have at least put it inside. Has anybody ever had any problems of their own?

NW7E7

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Cargo has always been a stepchild at Delta, which is rather surprising for an airline that size.

I would not ship anything on DL and definately no life animals. Life animals need special attention and special handling and that was obviously not guaranteed at this airline.

I don't know if the shipper in ANC has used proper packaging, made sure that the box was labled on the outside marking "LIVE ANIMAL HANDLE WITH CARE" and instructions such as keeping the box in a sheltered envrionment at a certainj tremperature.

If not, the shipper is at fault here as well.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13039 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

The transportation of pet animals (not service animals) on Commercial flights as cabin or checked luggage has become more difficult in recent years for their owners and airliners. As as result, we will see higher numbers of pet animals die during and to, from and connecting flights or people not bringing their pets with them. Pax are part of the problem too in that they cannot live without their pets with them at all times, perhaps unrealistic of the risks and bringing unusual animals (snakes, etc) as pets.
Increased security, allergy fears, more connecting flights exposing luggage transported animals to extreme heat, cold and trauma during loading and connections, the additional and insufficiently compensated costs of the special treatment needed and the increase use of lawsuits when things go wrong among other issues, are making some airlines to totally decline to transport pet animals. Pets that escape in the pax cabin or during handling (escaping from their cages when as luggage) had seemed to have increased with it's costly hassles and bad publicity. Other airlines are increasing the fees, not allowing the cargo transport of pets at certain times of year, being more selective as to what kind of pets can be with pax or as cargo or requiring all pet animals be transported as check luggage. The liquids limits on USA domestic and foreign flights to/from the USA means you may not be able to have enough water aboard into the pax area with you for your Fluffy or Fido. You have more crowed pax cabins that limit the room available for people to bring on their pets. Some LCC's have never allowed the transport of pet animals to reduce the costs including liability risks, hold down turnaround times and fares in turn.
To me, the pax transporting their pet animals on their flights is sadly becoming a thing of the past.


User currently offlineMovingtin From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

Quoting NW7E7 (Thread starter):
"According to the U.S. Department of Transportation, from May 2005 to January 2007, three animals flying Delta Airlines have died, and that's compared to 17 on Continental Airlines, nine on American Airlines and eight on United Airlines."



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
I would not ship anything on DL and definately no life animals. Life animals need special attention and special handling and that was obviously not guaranteed at this airline

And yet you single out Delta!!?? Looks like they are doing better than the others!


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
The transportation of pet animals (not service animals) on Commercial flights as cabin or checked luggage has

This was not a pet animal. It was shipped from an "Animal rescue organization" to a Zoo. People shipping their pets by air should either do it as baggage, that means the least time the creaturs have to spend in the kennels. If that is not possible, they should use the services of a freight forwarder specialized in handling libe animals. That may cost a few bucks more for handling but you get the expert knowledge for that money which may save the life of your dog, cat or pet elefant.


Quoting Movingtin (Reply 3):

And yet you single out Delta!!?? Looks like they are doing better than the others!

I am neither singling out Delta nor do they better than the others, they may have more luck or get less animals for transport. The figures how many are killed per airline mean nothing unless you know the total number shipped on that particular airline.

Delta was the one in question here and when you look up the dtails, you will find that Delta was the only possible choice because of the size of the crate, nothing less than an MD80 could have handled the job and only DL serves PNS with mainline metal.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

It happens a lot, most airlines will not except animals in weather over like 80F. NW has a special program called priority pet. Others have some programs but none as extensive as NW's.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8662 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 5):

I know a lot of people who use NW for that reason. They are a very good airline for shipping pets.

Does anyone know if a single airport in the US has a pet kennel like LHR (correct me if i'm worng, but its either LGW or LHR)?

MCOflyer



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

They need the Kennels at LHR etc because the poor critters have to endure 6 months quarantine.

.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
I am neither singling out Delta nor do they better than the others

They have less deaths total (by a fair amount) which seems better to me though I do understand the whole concept of per capita deaths per animals transported but...

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
they may have more luck or get less animals for transport.

You need to back this up with facts before tossing it out there if you want to use per capita deaths as your argument.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
Cargo has always been a stepchild at Delta, which is rather surprising for an airline that size.

Source? Or just an unfounded opinion?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
I would not ship anything on DL and definately no life animals. Life animals need special attention and special handling and that was obviously not guaranteed at this airline.

Again, do you have a source that special attention and handling is not guaranteed at Delta as part of their SOP or is it just another unfounded opinion on your part?

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
They need the Kennels at LHR etc because the poor critters have to endure 6 months quarantine.

I would guess that the Australian and Hawaiian airports would have them given their quarantine requirements.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

If the box was not properly labeled to indicate live creature was inside then it comes down to the person receiving the box in Alaska. They didn't ask all the proper questions to find out what was in the box. But also to the some understanding, if the box said live snake on it with no other markings, how does anyone know what kind of snake it is or what the suitable climates are for it. It's easy to know what dogs and cats will handle but airline employees don't know what all animals can live in, 50 degrees sounds reasonable to me for an animal to be ok outside.

User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting SlamClick (Reply 20):
ONA had a walrus for Sea World in SAN dropped from DC-9 deck height by a forklift. Ruined a perfectly good walrus.

And more in Unwanted "Guests" On Flight Deck (by Goinv Oct 20 2005 in Tech Ops)



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4505 times:

The people shipping the snake did not ship it properly. It should have been in a climate controlled box with a "hot rock" It looks like the people who shipped the snake did it the cheapest way passable and suffered the consequences.

User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

There is a good rule of thumb when shipping pets on a flight.

Don't do it!

Animal go through an extremelly stressful time on the ramp when all they hear is engine whine, hydrolics ...etc
In flight it's the same thing. The hold might be pressurized but it's not warm in there and again they have to deal with unknown sounds and other pets who are just as scared as yours.

If you love your pet don't send him in the hold.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

Quoting NW7E7 (Thread starter):
They should have at least put it inside.

Airline rules (and perhaps DOT, can't recall) prohibit reptiles from being in cabin. Only dogs, cats, service animals.



Even dogs transported as cargo consistent with rules can be problematic--ie: snub-nosed dogs, like pugs, etc. They are susceptible to breathing problems and some breeds even are not well suited for flying.


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):

You need to back this up with facts before tossing it out there if you want to use per capita deaths as your argument

read the little word MAY in my reply.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):

Source? Or just an unfounded opinion?



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 8):

Again, do you have a source that special attention and handling is not guaranteed at Delta as part of their SOP or is it just another unfounded opinion on your part?

37 years of airfreight forwarding on my back. Call it experience. When DL took over from PA at FRA, i gave that part my business to other carriers.

From the routing, Delta was likely the only choice as it can be assumed that the case was too big for a CRJ or Embraer. If not, I would have chosen CO and IAH as transfer. Better even, don't transship, which is a rule of thumb when it comes to shipping live animals. (Besides not shipping them at all)

The shipper has made that initial mistake, they should have arranged that the Pensacola Zoo sends a van to ATL to pick up the snake. If that was too expensive, keep the snake for 2 or 3 more months until warmer weather. Next - the case - if it was not properly marked, its shippers fault. If not properly provided with insulation material, whatever snakes need, shippers fault.

However, the receiving agent's duty is, to ask for the contents of the shipment. It then is his/her duty, to make all arrangements, ask the above questions, add markings if not already on the box, the whole kit and kaboodle it takes.

Read the manual when in doubt.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineIcLCY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
They need the Kennels at LHR etc because the poor critters have to endure 6 months quarantine.

The Animal Reception Centre at LHR is just that, a reception centre.

Those animals that are not travelling/arriving under the 'Pet Passport' scheme, who require quarantine are only held there until they are collected & transported to the relevant professional quarantine centre, of which there are many for a variety of animals all over the UK.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4308 times:

Ground Staff have to take specific cautions while shipping AVI cargo (live animals). Even in when all the procedures are followed, some animals can't take the stress and die inside the aircraft. In my experience, DOA (dead on arrival) cases are rare. Following the set procedures for shipping animals minimizes these risks further. Regulations differ from airline to airline, but some basic shipping regs are:

- Dogs and Cats must be shipped in kennels.
- Dogs and Cats must be able to stand up, lie in their natural positions, and circle around inside their kennels.
- Kennels must made of fiberglass, metal, or rigid plastic.
- Kennel doors must be constructed of metal.
- Pets under 12 weeks old must be certified by a vet for travel.
- A vet must certify a pet that is to be sedated during travel.
- Pregnant pets must be certified by a vet for travel.
- AVI bookings are restricted to one flight connection only.
- The number of pets shipped on any one aircraft are limited.
- 24 hour contact information for the shipper and receiver are required.
- Reptiles must be shipped in a warm and dark enclosure.
- Glass enclosures are prohibited.

Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 12):
Animal go through an extremelly stressful time on the ramp when all they hear is engine whine, hydrolics ...etc

Some airlines require that pets are to be the last items transported to the plane, as well as being the last to be offloaded. That way pets can stay warm/cool and dry inside the bagroom or hold until the ground staff is able to immediately deliver them. It also minimizes the chance of pets getting stressed out by all the noise on the ramp, while they are waiting to be loaded or delivered. Some airlines also require that pets have to be transported in covered carts with curtains installed

Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 12):
The hold might be pressurized but it's not warm in there

Most airlines that I have worked with have aircraft with pressurized holds that are both heated and air conditioned (whichever is appropriate for the season). Most airlines also designate areas within the holds where animals are to be transported in.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Exotic reptiles are extremely sensitive to cold temperatures.
The average temperature for Python molurus bivittatus is 85-88 (daytime ) and 78-80 F (nightime ).The animals normally live in the Asian tropical rainforests.
I agree that animals should not travel by plane- but then there are circumstances where you can't avoid it.
The Burmese Python is becomming a rather common sight in the Everglades ,due to some reptile owners dumping their outgrown snakes into the wilderness ,where they cause damage to the the Florida wildlife eco-balance.
That is no reason to accept two mistakes :
-the shipper has wrongly crated the animal and most likely not ensured proper en-route supervision
-the airline should have better supervised their cargo, based on the shipping -documents (I suppose it was mentioned life animal)



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7498 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 12):
There is a good rule of thumb when shipping pets on a flight.

Don't do it!

Animal go through an extremelly stressful time on the ramp when all they hear is engine whine, hydrolics ...etc
In flight it's the same thing. The hold might be pressurized but it's not warm in there and again they have to deal with unknown sounds and other pets who are just as scared as yours.

If you love your pet don't send him in the hold.

I have to agree. But when a person is moving from city to city and needs to have their pet transported by air, I believe there are special services that handle only pets. I love my cats too much to ever take them on a commercial airline. Should I ever leave Los Angeles and I cant drive them, I would try to get some sort of transport service to take care of them.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 15):

Those animals that are not travelling/arriving under the 'Pet Passport' scheme, who require quarantine are only held there until they are collected &

yes, our family dog had to endure that some 40 years ago. Was received at EDI by the vet who owned the kennels somewhere between EDI and Perth.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Before working for AC, i worked for a handling agent called ATS. We did the ground handling for Jetsgo (ugh). Anyway, one day we opened up the front hold and there was a terrible odour. There was a kennel with a dead Rottweiler with puke and blood everywhere. The dog had totally kicked the $hit out of his cage too. It was disgusting. Anyway, the owners of the dog tried to sue the airline, when the vet did an autopsy during an investigation the vet said the dog had been under extreme stress and had some kind of seizure. Also, and here's the kicker, the owners admitted that it was the 7th time that dog had been on an airplane within the last 2 weeks.... well no wonder it was stressed out!!!


Kris



Word
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4143 times:

I notice a couple of things here that sort of poke out at me, given the knowledge I have of Delta's animal handling services.

First of all, when shipping a snake or any temperature sensitive reptile, as someone already said, there should have been a self-contained heating apparatus in the box. I once helped a customer recieve a small ball python that he had shipped in to breed with another he owned. With the color variations, he paid $5,000 for this one, and when they mated, he could sell the babies for $1,500 a pop. Multiply that by how many babies pythons can have and you'll see why I'm in the wrong business. This python was no more than a couple of feet long and arrived in a small box not much bigger than a couple of shoeboxes. But inside the styrofoam box(to preserve the heat inside), was the snake in a canvas bag, and outside of that was a heating pad. The snake literally was shipped across the country from San Francisco to the East Coast in the middle of winter and arrived just fine. To the best of my knowledge nothing in the story states anything about the snake being given some sort of heating ability inside its crate. Now, a snake that size would need a lot more than a heating pad to stay warm, but if you are shipping a snake from Alaska to Atlanta in the dead of winter, you better have the crate heated, or you will wind up with a dead snake.

Secondly, any animal shipped into ATL and left for a period of time is taken either to the freight house for cargo or to a special kennel under the south end of A Concourse. It is a covered, climate controlled indoor kennel. All animals are signed in and staff is available for any watering or feeding the animal may require. A local vet is also on call in case of any sickness developed by the animals. Now, from what the article states, if the snake was left for 5 hours outside, not only was the crate insufficient for a travelling reptile(after all, it does drop to 50 or below in ATL in winter, duh!), but it was apparently not labeled that it was a coldblooded creature needing temperature control. Its not uncommon for freight to be left at the gate if a flight is missed and waiting for the next one, but if the next flight is 5 hours later(uncommon for a flt to PNS), the freight will be taken back to the freight house if needed(inclimate weather, caged reptile, etc.) But the crate has to be labeled for anything to be done about it. Otherwise, it will just appear to be another box with tractor parts inside or what not.

Given that Delta is the third largest carrier by size, and according to that report, has had 3 animals die in its care, compared to 8 and 9 by its larger counterparts, United and American, and far less than smaller Continental Airlines, I think can testify that Delta apparently DOES take care of animals in its control.


OttoPylit


User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4130 times:

Speaking from someone who worked at a pet store,

Most of the animals that were not fish usually came in well, I only remember like two animals dying in transit in two years.

On the other hand, DL had a problem with shipping fish, often, the water got so hot in the summer from mishandling, that an order for 500 feeder goldfish would be shot, with like 420 dead, another 50 ill, and just a handful of good fish.

Afterwards, the store used WN, who did a much better job at the fish handling.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 4):
The figures how many are killed per airline mean nothing unless you know the total number shipped on that particular airline.

Very true. CO's numbers seem high, but they have a very well known pet program that attracts many customers.

Anyway, when you are talking such small numbers for ALL the airlines, it's statistically insignificant if it's 3 or 17 over a 2 year period. Either way, very few, if any, pets die! All the uproar is silliness.

And claiming they are "killed" is also silliness. Animals are not as hardy as people, they have shorter life spans and though don't tend to get sick as much, when they do, they die quickly.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
CO's numbers seem high, but they have a very well known pet program that attracts many customers.

Does this pet program cater to euthenasia?  rotfl 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
Anyway, when you are talking such small numbers for ALL the airlines, it's statistically insignificant if it's 3 or 17 over a 2 year period.

I wonder if the same could be said about fatal airline crashes?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
Animals are not as hardy as people, they have shorter life spans and though don't tend to get sick as much, when they do, they die quickly.

And what better way to go than in a loud, dark aircraft bin while stuck in a plastic crate and being paralyzed with fear of the strange smells and sounds? I can't think of any other way I'd want to go.



OttoPylit


25 Ikramerica : Whatever, man. Animals in the wild go through their whole freaking lives in fear, with strange sounds and smells. It's their natural state of being.
26 Airfoilsguy : That is part of the problem. Dogs and cats have been bred for thousands of years to loose the natural fear you talk about. Most of the animals that p
27 FlyDeltaJets87 : This thread made me think of the question: Has there ever been an emergency declared for an animal on board? In other words, if a passengers gets seri
28 474218 : Delta had (and my still have) a "small package" service called DELTA DASH. I used it several time for AGO shipments (not live animals) and found it t
29 OttoPylit : Yea, if its a wild animal. But it appears that most of the animals shipped(dogs, cats, birds, rabbits, etc.) are domesticated animals. And they only
30 PanHAM : yes, but that is small change for a carrier of that size. aircargo has never been a real priority for them, they always have been belly only and that
31 XT6Wagon : My dad got a kitten shipped air, and it went well... till we realised a day or two later one of the other animals on the shipment was diseased and gav
32 TERRA : Another point, and the shipper is made aware of this, is that the carrier is never held responsible for the death of an animal during transport. If th
33 Post contains images PanHAM : I like the term hand baggage. I've been on an EK flight DXB KHI once, in C and 2 o 3 passengers had their falcons on their arm. They were met in KHI
34 Slider : Great response. You don't know the details of those incidents, so perhaps you should refrain from judgement. There is a reason I mentioned the "snub-
35 Nwafflyer : Most airlines require a health certificate, from a local veterinary within 10 days of an animal flying - whether as cargo, or in the cabin
36 Lucky42 : I agree with Burnsie on this one..NW although not perfect even in the pet ship biz this is a good program. Delta has a less than stellar animal shipp
37 Highflier92660 : Pets have been shipped for decades aboard jet/turboprop/piston airliners and happily 99.99% of the time they have been re-united with their owners at
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