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738 Transatlantic?  
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9276 times:

I was just looking on FlightAware, and noticed that both tonight (3/14 here in US) and tomorrow's LX 19 EWR-ZRH is being operated by a PrivatAir 738. Is this usual? Has anyone taken this flight? And does anyone know any details of this, such as how the aircraft is configured, and if anyone else operates 738s transatlantic?

[Edited 2007-03-15 05:38:13]

[Edited 2007-03-15 05:38:46]

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9234 times:

The PrivatAir aircraft is a BBJ2, not a standard issue 738......PrivatAir aircraft operated in a J class configuration.

As for other airlines using the 738 transatlantic, there are range issues....while very short transatlantic operations (such as flights from Halifax or St Johns to Shannon or Dublin) are possible, for practical purposes, the 738 does not have enough range to operate these services, especially when winter winds, ATC issues and alternates are takein into account.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9235 times:

Just a BBJ2, nothing all that abnormal about that.

User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9231 times:

The Aircraft is most likely the BBJ, however being listed as a 738 is kind of confusing. Most of the time, privatair flies their 737's and A319 Business Jet configuration from Cities such as Newark and Houston to Zurich and Amsterdam. No major carrier uses 737's as i recall, because loads demand a higher aircraft and most important of all even the 737-700, the one with the most range among the NG 737's would not be able to make the westbound trip. However, the 737's and A319 are different aircraft than those operated by the most airlines as these are equipped with extra fuel tanks and numerous other improvments. All seats are configured in a business configuration and usually have about 50 seats. Hope this helps.


"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9114 times:

OK, that explains it. Flightaware and SWISS both listed it as 738, and I was wondering how the heck a 738 could make that distance. BBJ makes sense, but don't you think it would be wise for SWISS to make it clear on their site it's a BBJ? Premium service is nice, and a 738 transatl would be...not so nice.

User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9021 times:

Not too jump too far off subject but I would not be surprised to see CO operating the 739ER from EWR to DUB/SNN in the not too distant future.


It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3402 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8944 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 4):
BBJ makes sense, but don't you think it would be wise for SWISS to make it clear on their site it's a BBJ? Premium service is nice, and a 738 transatl would be...not so nice.

I doubt the average passenger would know that 738 means Boeing 737-800, and if they did, I doubt they can tell the difference between a 738 and, say, a 772 (two wing-mounted engines, no t-tail, long fuselage). Something that would probably help clear up any confusion is the fact that the only class that can be booked on these flights is Business Class.


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8880 times:

There are 3 B737s operating for European Airlines across the Atlantic, provided by PrivatAir.

HB-IIQ is a B737-700 BBJ operated for Lufthansa - see http://www.bazl.admin.ch/fachleute/l...igentuemer=&name=#lfr_suchergebnis

HB-IIR is a B737-800 BBJ operated for Swissair - see http://www.bazl.admin.ch/fachleute/l...igentuemer=&name=#lfr_suchergebnis

HB-JJA is a B737 -700 BBJ operated for KLM - see http://www.bazl.admin.ch/fachleute/l...igentuemer=&name=#lfr_suchergebnis

All are in Business Class only configuration, all have extra fuel capacity, all operate daily, Swissair to EWR, Lufthansa to Newark and KLM to Houston. All operate non stop.

In addition, Miami Air operate B737-800s from/to various points in the US to/from Iraq on trooping flights with a first/last stop at Shannon. This last winter, FlyGlobespan have flown B737-800s to the US and canada on flights from Manchester with a stop in Iceland.


User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8742 times:

Icelandair has also operated the 737 on North Atlantic flights to Halifax and Florida. These were actually 737-400s, but those flights are now operated by the 757.

Continental explored flying the 737-NG on flights from Newark to Shannon and Dublin, but they decided not to do it.


User currently offlineDiscoverCSG From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

Also, (almost on topic) AC operates a 319 from YYT to LHR.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8576 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 8):
Icelandair has also operated the 737 on North Atlantic flights to Halifax and Florida. These were actually 737-400s, but those flights are now operated by the 757.

Icelandair sent 734s into Halifax, not Florida.

Quoting Mats (Reply 8):
Continental explored flying the 737-NG on flights from Newark to Shannon and Dublin, but they decided not to do it.

It was a very very quick study.......CO did quickly look at using 73Gs during the winter season on the EWR-SNN route, it was determined that aside from operational challenges, there would be financial issues since a BF product could not be offered and cargo haul would be minimal.

The 737NG is a great airplane, but its not a transatlantic airplane.


User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8486 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 6):
I doubt the average passenger would know that 738 means Boeing 737-800, and if they did, I doubt they can tell the difference between a 738 and, say, a 772 (two wing-mounted engines, no t-tail, long fuselage). Something that would probably help clear up any confusion is the fact that the only class that can be booked on these flights is Business Class.

Well, the SWISS website actually lists it as 737-800, so it's a bit less unclear than a.net shorthand. Also, I'd bet more business class passengers fly frequently and therefore are a bit more attuned to the differences between a 737 (one aisle, cramped interior for a long flight) and a 777 (twin aisle).

[Edited 2007-03-15 15:33:22]

User currently offlinePRGDLGUY From Czech Republic, joined Sep 2006, 101 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8444 times:

Travel Service - Czech charter a/l has flights to Jamaica/DomRep/Cuba via Azores and Nassau with 738 (a few years ago they were flying via KEF and YHZ). They also fly to Fortaleza via Canary Islands.

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8395 times:

737-800 long haul in economy. uggggggggh, Let me out!

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8383 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 8):

Continental explored flying the 737-NG on flights from Newark to Shannon and Dublin, but they decided not to do it

And the reasons were...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
CO did quickly look at using 73Gs during the winter season on the EWR-SNN route, it was determined that aside from operational challenges, there would be financial issues since a BF product could not be offered and cargo haul would be minimal.

I can't see SNN having a big BF seats demand in low season (Oct-Mar), moreover they do fly B737-700 to Latinamerica with the same BF configuration and the flying time is about the same as a SNN-EWR, so why a flight to/fr Eire as long as a B737-700 flight to/fr Latinamerica can't use the same configuration?.
IMHO, for CO it would be more convenient to fly a B737-700 to SNN (or even BFS) wintertime and free a B757 to use on another route with more demand.
About the B737-700 in DUB, maybe as a 2nd or 3rd EWR extra daily summertime, same would apply to BFS, EDI and GLA.
I would like to see CO fly EWR-ABZ with B737-700 yeararound but I'm sure the B737-700 BF cabin won't be enough for that route no matter when.
A EWR-NCL may be pushing the B737-700 range to much on the westbound flights, but it might work even yeararond.
Another interesting transatlantic B737-700 routes for CO may be ORK on Ireland and SCQ in northwest Spain, but again, it may encounter some operational difficulties westbound wintertime.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8357 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 11):
Well, the SWISS website actually lists it as 737-800, so it's a bit less unclear than a.net shorthand. Also, I'd bet more business class passengers fly frequently and therefore are a bit more attuned to the differences between a 737 (one aisle, cramped interior for a long flight) and a 777 (twin aisle).

Swiss list it as a B737-800 because it is. The flight is very popular with business class passengers as the aircraft is fitted with 56 seats in a 2 x 2 configuration with 60 inches of legroom and every seat becomes a lie flat bed.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8294 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):

I can't see SNN having a big BF seats demand in low season (Oct-Mar), moreover they do fly B737-700 to Latinamerica with the same BF configuration and the flying time is about the same as a SNN-EWR, so why a flight to/fr Eire as long as a B737-700 flight to/fr Latinamerica can't use the same configuration?.
IMHO, for CO it would be more convenient to fly a B737-700 to SNN (or even BFS) wintertime and free a B757 to use on another route with more demand.
About the B737-700 in DUB, maybe as a 2nd or 3rd EWR extra daily summertime, same would apply to BFS, EDI and GLA.
I would like to see CO fly EWR-ABZ with B737-700 yeararound but I'm sure the B737-700 BF cabin won't be enough for that route no matter when.
A EWR-NCL may be pushing the B737-700 range to much on the westbound flights, but it might work even yeararond.
Another interesting transatlantic B737-700 routes for CO may be ORK on Ireland and SCQ in northwest Spain, but again, it may encounter some operational difficulties westbound wintertime.

Firstly, COPA has been unique (and successful) in using the 737NG on some very long haul routes, its an interesting operation.....but CO sees it a bit differently.

1. Remember that COPA's north-south operation is a bit easier than east-west transatlantic operations.....ETOPS is not an issue, and the winds are not severe, etc/..

2. While the 73G does show up on some thin CO Latin American routes, those routes are of shorter duration than the EWR-Ireland services that you mention. ALso, there is the BF issue.....CO uses domestic First on most Latin American flights (dont ask me why, I dont agree with this position....BF should be the standard premium product to all of South America...not just Bazil) while BF is offered on all European services. BF demand is reasonable on the Irish and UK routes that you propose with the 73G and CO simply does not want to vary its product. To install BF on a small 73G subfleet makes little sense as the airplane is too small, and even an 8 seat BF cabin would take up way too much cabin room and not leave adequate Y seats.

3. The routes that you mention all support 752 operations (SNN,DUB, etc)....and CO rather go with 5X weekly 752 ops than a daily 73G in those markets where winter demand is light. Newcastle, which you mention, can certainly support daily 752 into EWR, the flight has not materialized since NCL airport refuses to give CO the deal that it is looking for to help launch service....thus, BFS, EDI, BRS have added service while NCL is still only a discussion. ABZ is a niche market that is probably better suited for a Privatair BBJ type operation.

4. CO has decided that the 752 is the smallest airplane that will go across the Atlantic: I know that CO studied the numbers utilizing the 73G on transatlantic flights and CO determined that it did not work out. Unattractive finances + potential operational issues resulted in CO determining that 737NG accross the Atlantic do not make sense for their biz plan.


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8186 times:

flyGlobespan:

738 has flown/will fly these routes:

GLA-SFB
GLA-YHM
GLA-BOS

The way things are going, it may also be doing MAN-YHM. NOC-BOS is also a 738 but the flight starts in GLA.

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8087 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Remember that COPA's north-south operation is a bit easier than east-west transatlantic operations.....ETOPS is not an issue, and the winds are not severe, etc/..

True, the only - kind of - east-west B737-700 CM flight is PTY-LAX, which is (going to be ) standard on B737-800.

With Air ;Madrid going under sometime ago, I would guess someone @ CM headquarters had studied a possible B737-700 PTY-BDA-MAD or eventually PTY-MAD non-stop with B737-700ER (double-daily on a 28C/52Y configuration?!), none of which would be that attractive for CM or its passengers.
Bear in mind MVD-PTY-LAX flying time is more than a PTY-BDA-MAD.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1329 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7899 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 15):
Swiss list it as a B737-800 because it is.

I wasn't disputing that it's a 737-800 in all-business configuration. I was clarifying my remark that the website listed it as a "738" which most people wouldn't understand (as it's shorthand), and stating that it actually called it "737-800" and that therefore fewer people would be confused...it was nothing about the way the plane was set up!


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7789 times:

The CO flight ex SNN in the winter does quite nicely. It is the first from SNN to the US each day and, arriving at EWR at around 12.15 allows half a day extra in NYC or gives a far better set of connections than the rest of the flights to NYC from SNN. CO rightly worked out that a 737 would be both an unwarranted downg

Quoting IADCA (Reply 19):

Sorry, I cobbled together your replies # 4 and 11


User currently offlineEmptyarm From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7323 times:

Some weeks ago, the Ecuadorian Government chartered a Conviasa B737-300 to take back home some Air Madrid passengers stranded in GYE.

IIRC, routing was GYE-CCS-SID-MAD.

All passengers required a Chiropractor upon arrival


User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6161 times:

I'm pretty certain that Icelandair did fly to Florida with the 737-400. These were summer-only flights. I'm sorry I don't remember which cities. This was maybe in the late 90's. I don't know where I can find historical FI schedules.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5874 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 22):
I'm pretty certain that Icelandair did fly to Florida with the 737-400. These were summer-only flights. I'm sorry I don't remember which cities. This was maybe in the late 90's. I don't know where I can find historical FI schedules.

Would the 734 have the range to fly KEF-Florida nonstop? That would be a huge strech for the 734......Icelandair's flights to MCO operate with a 752.....I dont think that FI has served any other Florida cities.


User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 23):
Would the 734 have the range to fly KEF-Florida nonstop? That would be a huge strech for the 734......Icelandair's flights to MCO operate with a 752

FI switched to SFB didn't they?

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
25 Dutchjet : Very possible, I am not sure.....FI flies to Orlando and I automatically wrote MCO.
26 Post contains images GLAGAZ : Now thats what I call a quick reply Yeh i just checked their website. SFB it is. Although I think they just switched in the last few months. Gaz
27 Post contains links and images RayPettit : What about a Boeing 737-600 crossing the Atlantic, and then venturing over a bit of the Pacific! Would love to know more about this movement. View Lar
28 ARGinLON : I always wondered why LX doesn't operate the private air on SAT EWR-ZRH. However, they do it on WED. What's the point of doing it on a WED and not on
29 Post contains links Viscount724 : The AC service starts April 1. In addition to the AC A319 YYT-LHR, LGW-based UK carrier Astraeus also starts 3/week service LGW-YYT-LGW in May using
30 Dutchjet : Most of the pax on the EWR-ZRH flight are biz passengers.....who would rather be home and with their families on the weekend. Thus, I assume, demand
31 BY188B : This movement was mentioned in a thread 1-2 years ago, IIRC it was a military charter but i cant recall the exact details
32 LTU932 : What about PTY-MVD and PTY-EZE? Those routes tend to require tech stops sometimes, even though from what I remember, the number of tech stops went do
33 Bingo : I usually see the BBJs in line with us in the evening "Taxiway Conga Line" so common in the 8 oclock hour at EWR. Anyone know what their load factors
34 Nwafflyer : I have seen the Privatair plane is Detroit, flying I think for Lufthansa. Where would it logically re-fuel?
35 Dutchjet : Could have been the KLM flight, AMS-IAH......could have stopped in Detroit for fuel or other issues.....Detroit would be logical due to the big KL/NW
36 Viscount724 : There's plenty of business traffic on week days including Wednesday. Saturday is almost always the slowest day for business traffic. If you fly much
37 Post contains images Brilondon : Back in the 1980's I recall seeing a Sterling 727 at YYZ. I don't know if it came direct from Denmark or if it stopped anywhere along the way, such as
38 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Doesn't TZ fly B-737-800s from SFO or LAX to HNL? The B-737-700 has about the best range of all models, and according to Boeing all B-737NGs have tran
39 Philb : The 737 which flies for on Swiss ops to/from EWR has been logged on SBS-1 over Ireland, westbound, on some Saturdays in 2006. As the flight often does
40 Whappeh : Has that started yet? I'd love to see a photo of an AC 319 in LHR.
41 Post contains images AbleToFly : I flew a 738 last summer from SFJ to CPH in full economy. Not a pleasant flight I should say. Aircraft from Travel Service leased for the summer touri
42 KC135TopBoom : Why?
43 AbleToFly : Full economy, 189 PAX, 4½ hrs. Was'nt really pleasant. But the airline was maybe the one to blame. None of the F/A spoke danish nor greenlandic, and
44 787KQ : LTU, where have Copa's tech stoops been enroute to MVD and EZE from PTY and vice versa? Sao Paulo, Manaus, Bogota?
45 2travel2know : Enroute to PTY, almost all the time, CLO has been the tech stop.
46 Matt : In fact, Astraeus is actually currently operating 2/week LGW-YDF-YYT-LGW service with the 737-700.
47 ARGinLON : My point was in terms of transatlantic service For US Business originating passengers the strongest days are: SA and SU from US to Europe ( to be at
48 Dutchjet : Interesting but not typical.....Saturday is generally a rather light day for biz traffic between Europe and US and return....because, as stated, most
49 ARGinLON : For European carries it may be the case but for US carriers (whose passengers tend to be US originating) SA and SU are rather strong. Certainly Satur
50 Dutchjet : The info is based on US (not EU) carriers..........and the high powered execs that fly on the Privatair flights are not travelling for business over
51 Alphaomega : The 738 in economy across the pond wouldn't be a fun trip, but GSM has used it before to do their GLA-SFB-GLA route with a stop in CYJT, usually done
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