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Jet Airways Sked To BRU/EWR Uploaded  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7999 times:

Jet Airways' schedule for Mumbai - Brussels - Newark is now available.

Effective 28OCT07, daily 777-300ER

9W228 BOM 0225 - 0740 BRU 0940 - 1225EWR
9W227 EWR 2025 - 0940 BRU 1140 - 0040BOM

There would be a chance to receive 5th freedom rights on BRU-EWR

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 7963 times:

So both flights will be at BRU at the same time, a nice boost to the underused B terminal in BRU. I suppose Brussels Airport will need to add additional gates to the 'secure' zone at the end of the B terminal (not just for Jet but also for the 2 other new US services that are starting this summer), atleast the flight to EWR will have to board in the secure zone (just like Biman did when they were still around in BRU).

4 hours 45 minutes ground time in BRU for the passengers travelling from BOM to JFK seems a bit much.

There are rumours that Jet Airways would also send a DEL flight on the way to North America trough BRU. Anyone with more on that.



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User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2306 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7921 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
4 hours 45 minutes ground time in BRU for the passengers travelling from BOM to JFK seems a bit much.

Arrive at BRU 0740, leave 0940. That is 2 hours ground time at BRU. Also 2 hours on the way back.

Also, the planes will not be in BRU at the same time (if there are no delays). Right as one flight leaves BRU, the other one will arrive. I think the idea is to use the same ground crew for both flights.


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 7897 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 2):
Arrive at BRU 0740, leave 0940. That is 2 hours ground time at BRU. Also 2 hours on the way back.

Woow, I think I misread the information. Thanks for pointing that out, it makes a lot more sense now.



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User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
There would be a chance to receive 5th freedom rights on BRU-EWR

If they don't, wouldn't that be a b*tch?? I mean, at least some pax will terminate in BRU and flying 60-70 % LF over the Atlantic is painful economically.

Reminds me of EY, they do AUH-BRU-NYC (don't remember which), SN is responsible for all sales of BRU-NYC tickets, so maybe they circumvented a "true" 5th freedom right in this sense? Maybe 9W could do the same?

If they do get 5th freedom one way or the other (through SN), BRU-NYC is surely gonna be a competitive market in the summer..

But good luck, 9W, and welcome to the European continent. Looking forward to seeing you in CPH someday...  Wink

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26508 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7804 times:

They are selling tickets on the BRU-EWR-BRU

BRU EWR 0940 1200 9W 228 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

EWR BRU 2030#0940 9W 227 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB



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User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7741 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
They are selling tickets on the BRU-EWR-BRU

BRU EWR 0940 1200 9W 228 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

EWR BRU 2030#0940 9W 227 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

Well, that's great - doesn't necessarily mean they have 5th freedom yet though, but still, hope they will!

Anybody knows if they'll get any interline feed to BRU from Europe to either BOM or BRU??

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlinePNQIAD From India, joined May 2006, 585 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7636 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
They are selling tickets on the BRU-EWR-BRU

Yes - As per the India-Belgium ASA modified in 2005, provides full 5th freedom for Indian carriers.

MOU Between India and Kingdom of Belgium


User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 7625 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
There are rumours that Jet Airways would also send a DEL flight on the way to North America trough BRU. Anyone with more on that.

They are just awaiting new aircrafts. But nothing is finalized. There is speculation that it could be a DEL-BRU-YYZ, now that AC is withdrawing their service, i think it would be a wise choice.

9W also got permission to fly to BOM-PVG, maybe onwards to SFO...i know they had applied for this route.



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User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7569 times:

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 7):
Yes - As per the India-Belgium ASA modified in 2005, provides full 5th freedom for Indian carriers.

I've had a few domestic flights on Jet Airways, and tought their service was outstanding. I'd guess their international services are even better. Good to see Jet Airways being able to sell tickets from BRU to BOM and EWR, I guess they'll give the carriers currently flying between BRU and New York a run for their money. Hopefully they'll set up a big publicity campaign to get their product and name known amongst the Belgian travelling public.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 8):
There is speculation that it could be a DEL-BRU-YYZ, now that AC is withdrawing their service, i think it would be a wise choice.

Etihad will stop flying to Toronto via Brussels and operate the route non stop from Abu Dhabi instead. Jet airways would not only be able to profit from AC terminating their service to DEL but also from EY stopping their service to YYZ from BRU. Bring them on I'd say. Jet Airways is more then welcome in BRU.



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User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
So both flights will be at BRU at the same time, a nice boost to the underused B terminal in BRU. I suppose Brussels Airport will need to add additional gates to the 'secure' zone at the end of the B terminal (not just for Jet but also for the 2 other new US services that are starting this summer), atleast the flight to EWR will have to board in the secure zone (just like Biman did when they were still around in BRU).

The secure zone is over with at BRU.......the zone was dropped in late 2006 although many of the US flights still arrive/depart from the end of Terminal B. A couple of weeks ago, I departed on CO 061 from gate B05 and on Wednesday morning, the UA flight was at B03 (I think). I asked about this.....could not get a straight answer, and the last two times that I flew out of BRU, a friend who is usually a good source of information on such matters was not around. I will follow up......

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 2):

Arrive at BRU 0740, leave 0940. That is 2 hours ground time at BRU. Also 2 hours on the way back.

Also, the planes will not be in BRU at the same time (if there are no delays). Right as one flight leaves BRU, the other one will arrive. I think the idea is to use the same ground crew for both flights.

Exactly right, from what I hear.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
BRU EWR 0940 1200 9W 228 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

Interesting that this flight will fly almost wing-to-wing with the CO BRU-EWR flight which will soon be operating with a 772ER......


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
the zone was dropped in late 2006 although many of the US flights still arrive/depart from the end of Terminal B.

Woow... I wasn't aware of that (makes me realise how long it's been since I was in Belgium).



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User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 7523 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
Interesting that this flight will fly almost wing-to-wing with the CO BRU-EWR flight which will soon be operating with a 772ER......

I can say 100% for sure, that inflight service on 9W would be much better than CO. I have flown DEL-BOM on the domestic sector and their food and service is impeccable. At the same time, lots of Indians bound from NJ would love to see an Indian crew with Indian food on board. My money is on 9W even though CO is the best airline in the US of A.

However, once CO starts their non-stop BOM-EWR service, things could change if people prefer to fly non-stop. I am not a big fan of non-stops unless of course i get lucky and fly business or even better, first class. But I am sure a lot of older folks coming to meet their sons/daughters/grandchildren would also prefer a one stop...so 9W might be a good competition for CO  Smile

Now if some Indian carrier can fly to IAD, my annual trip to DEL would definitely be on one of them.  Smile



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User currently offlineSna350 From Belgium, joined Dec 2005, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
Reminds me of EY, they do AUH-BRU-NYC (don't remember which), SN is responsible for all sales of BRU-NYC tickets, so maybe they circumvented a "true" 5th freedom right in this sense? Maybe 9W could do the same?

that was AUH-BRU-YYZ not to New York
but the rest is true SN sold the tickets on the BRU-YYZ leg



Aircraft flown: B733, B734, B736, B737, B738, B744, B752, B763, B772, A319, A320, A321, A343, A346, Do328, CRJ7, E190
User currently offlineJustPlanes From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 885 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7468 times:

Looks like this route starts Aug 15th....

User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7419 times:

Quoting JustPlanes (Reply 14):
Looks like this route starts Aug 15th....

Looks like it is the case. Didn't find the flight in August, September last night though


User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7394 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

Are Jet introducing a First Class cabin - if yes then I think it is the airline's very first!


User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1286 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

It's nice if they do this BOM-BRU-EWR matching a DEL-BRU-YYZ, except for the fact that shopping options near the gates at terminal B are rather limited, you have to go all the way to the International transit hall/mall. Too bad!


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User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7225 times:

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 12):
I can say 100% for sure, that inflight service on 9W would be much better than CO. I have flown DEL-BOM on the domestic sector and their food and service is impeccable. At the same time, lots of Indians bound from NJ would love to see an Indian crew with Indian food on board

Many will disagree with you on this point........CO has a good reputation in Europe (especially the Benelux) and BRU is one of CO's most profitable stations. There is a reason that BRU is getting the 772ER this summer....CO has a solid cutomer base and many contracts with large clients for this route and the load factors and yeilds on the flight are exceptionally high. That being said, there is a lot of new service out of BRU to the United States coming this summer, for the first time in years.....aside from the 9W flight, both NW and US are adding flights from BRU to their respective hubs with 757s.

Its gonna be interesting to see if 9W offers baragin fares in the BRU-EWR market to keep the airplanes filled....9W's success in the BRU-EWR Fifth Freedom market is far from certain: SQ once flew SIN-BRU-JFK and SIN-AMS-EWR and were very unsuccessful with the transatlantic segments, reports indicate that EK is doing very poorly on its HAM-JFK flight with many reports stating that less than 30 pax are O&D for the transatanatic segment, etc. Nothing against 9W, they have a good reputation, but this will be an interesting situation to watch.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 12):
However, once CO starts their non-stop BOM-EWR service, things could change if people prefer to fly non-stop.

With CO adding BOM-EWR nonstop service and DL already flying BOM-JFK nonstop, can Jet effectively compete on this route with one-step service? Big question.....it does seem that the nonstop flights are very popular and are doing far better than anyone ever really expected, again an interesting situation to watch. And, of course, CO can offer connections though out North America via its EWR hub, DL offers connecting service to key cities out of JFK, something that 9W cannot offer and thus will be more O&D oriented.

Lots of issues......the US-India market has exploded...is there enough traffic for all of these airlines to make money on these new flights?


User currently offlineMk777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week ago) and read 7145 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
9W's success in the BRU-EWR Fifth Freedom market is far from certain

I somewhat agree but a lot of Indians travel to the US and flights are usually full most of the year. SIN-AMS or SIN-BRU going onwards to the US just doesn't have those pax. But SQ now does well on their non-stop (???) EWR service. I think people in europe prefer using thier flag carriers to the US than anything else, i am sure you can explain that, since you have a dutch origin.

And yes, i agree that there are too many flights now to India...i am not sure how all of them will do, almost every major carrier flies to India and so really all will depend on how the pax get treated during the flight and of course, the on-time performance.

Thanks for your inputs....its fun discussing when someone actually responds  Smile



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User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 8):
9W also got permission to fly to BOM-PVG,

Now that could be a goldmine waiting to be tapped... BOM-HKG is highly restricted and thus with very, very good yields; BOM-PVG could surely gain from this for flights to HKG, Southern China and Taiwan

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
BRU EWR 0940 1200 9W 228 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

EWR BRU 2030#0940 9W 227 F4 A2 C4 J4 Z4 I4 Y4 M4 T4 U4#77WB

As someone else already noted, when did 9W get first class? Anyways, had a friend who flew BOM-LHR-BOM twice in November last year, in both Y and J, he was absolutely amazed by the experience in both classes.. He was supposed to sleep before a meeting in London, but the IFE was so good he didn't close an eye..!

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
Its gonna be interesting to see if 9W offers baragin fares in the BRU-EWR market to keep the airplanes filled

Hope they do - at least for a start. Hope for some interline to CPH so I can get on it!..

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
With CO adding BOM-EWR nonstop service and DL already flying BOM-JFK nonstop, can Jet effectively compete on this route with one-step service?

I think they stand a fair chance.. yields might be a bit lower, yes, but costs also.. Carrying the fuel you burn from Europe to India all the way with you from the U.S. is very, very costly, and 9W wonøt have those costs..

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 19):
I somewhat agree but a lot of Indians travel to the US and flights are usually full most of the year.

India-US/Europe routes are also counter-seasonal; good for year-round traffic. When the weather sucks in India, it's beatifult in Europe/US and the other way around..

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 19):
And yes, i agree that there are too many flights now to India

I agree too... I'm happy to see all the flights to India, and in particular Indian carriers coming along here, but this just can't work economically.. (Sorry, some tend to believe that I'm always negative about traffic to India in this forum, I'm not..) ..but if 9W also starts service from DEL, and to other cities in Europe, along with the ns U.S. expansion, and AI going nonstop to the US, and then maybe IT in a couple of years going for the same... sorry to be the party-pooper, but that won't work...

But let's see..!! Good luck, 9W, good luck!

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4716 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

9W has supposedly a cult following with NRIs in USA and this EWR flight will be welcomed big time by the USA residing NRI community.

In 2005, when 9W originally had announced its intentions to fly to EWR, the NYC based Air India manager reportedly had mentioned to a colleague of mine that according to their market research, NRIs in USA dont mind paying a premium of upto 10% on the fare to fly 9W instead of Air India from USA to India due to its excellent inflight product / service reputation that it has managed to cultivate amongst the local and expat Indians.

The flight timings too are excellent as with a mid-day arrival into EWR, it allows the possibility of having excellent connections within 3-4 hours on flights bound to all major U.S. metro cities nonstop from EWR and the same thing vice versa due to its evening departure from EWR. I hope 9W signs a SPA with CO from EWR which would provide valueable feed to their flights in both directions.


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6898 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 21):
9W has supposedly a cult following with NRIs in USA and this EWR flight will be welcomed big time by the USA residing NRI community.

Well I can believe you...! In India, whenever you talked about aviation with anybody, 9W always came up as THE best option, whether to fly with them work from them or whatever.. It certainly has an aura down there. But also its problems. 9W got its good reputation when it was the only standing up against AI and IC - now others are giving them a run for their money and reputation. And 9W's costs are high, as are their fares, and they are in some trouble economically (at least until some of the new Indian LCCs go bankrupt).

But nice airline. Never really liked the name "Jet", but what tha´.. great service, flew them on GOI-BOM Dec. 20th last year, morning flight, 738, nice cabin crew, excellent pitch in Y (and I'm 192 cm), nice Indian food.. and the staff immediately saw me, the poor thing, a Westerner wth an obvious huge hangover from a night out in Goa, and offered me some paracetamols.. I could have kissed them.. but my breath would have scared them away..!  Smile

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3709 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6861 times:
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Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 18):
Its gonna be interesting to see if 9W offers baragin fares in the BRU-EWR market to keep the airplanes filled

My guess is SN is going to do a code-share on the BRU-EWR leg (as they code-share on almost any plane that touches the ground in BRU) and 9W will count on SN to fill up most of the O&D seats available. There may actually be quite a few of those. The arrival in both directions is also well-timed to connect with SN's service to/from destinations in the UK and elsewhere that now require going through LHR on flights that I'm told are very often full. I wouldn't be surprised to see 9W start selling BOM-BHX/BRS/MAN via BRU to free up more O&D seats for LHR. If the DEL-BRU-YYZ flight does become reality, BRU might become a European mini-hub for 9W. If 9W is as good as many say (I've never tried), SN would do well to get an interline with them and become their de facto intra-European carrier for destinations that are not available non-stop from BOM/DEL, rather than see those passengers connect through busier airports such as CDG, FRA or LHR.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 12):
My money is on 9W even though CO is the best airline in the US of A.

There are many large corporations with headquarters in New York/Newark that use CO as their "official carrier," some large enough to have their own dedicated check-in desk at EWR. They are CO's bread and butter, and are very much a captive market. If I wanted to fly another carrier between BRU and EWR, CO would have to be full in both cabins or I would have to convince the powers-that-be that CO's departure/arrival times conflict with my schedule in either city, a pretty hard sell with 9W given how closely their schedule matches CO's.

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 7):
Yes - As per the India-Belgium ASA modified in 2005, provides full 5th freedom for Indian carriers.

The declaration also gives away almost limitless freighter service. I guess this explains why SQC has so many flights BRU-India.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
I asked about this.....could not get a straight answer

I got two answers when I asked, neither very satisfying. The first one was that BATC finally realized there's no need to be holier than the pope, the second why "Why ? You miss the extra walk ?"



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User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

Interesting post BlueFlyer.

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 23):
My guess is SN is going to do a code-share on the BRU-EWR

This seems a bit strange. SN already has a codeshare with AA to JFK, I'd say if SN codeshares with 9W it's on the BRU-BOM leg.



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25 PYP757 : I too want to disagree with this statement. I fly the BRU-EWR route on CO regularly, and have never had any complains with the in flight service. 100
26 DFWMzuri : Does 9W codeshare with AA? I thought I read somewhere that they did.
27 Dutchjet : Not really true.......SN does not codeshare with CO, DL and will not be codesharing with NW and US when then start service to BRU later this year. An
28 Post contains images Kevin777 : True, but to be fair, SN is an airline that code-shares across the board like no one else because it isn't in any alliance Then why stop in BRU at al
29 BlueFlyer : That is entirely true, but does it preclude SN from codesharing to EWR ? I don't know... As long as SN doesn't codeshare with CO on domestic flights,
30 Dutchjet : AA would care....AA expects SN to route their US bound passengers on AA metal, why would AA continue to codeshare with SN if SN is putting is US boun
31 BlueFlyer : Ok, let me rephrase it better. They code-share on almost any destination out of BRU on which they do not compete (except CO, DL, NW and US). That is
32 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = Aaww ... thanks for not disappointing me. I clicked on this thread just to see if you had responded with something negative . Lets see if 9W "just
33 Post contains links BlueFlyer : Actually, while digging into it, I came across an article with chairman Naresh Goyal in which he implies that the 777 doesn't have the range to do it
34 Abrelosojos : = Finally some sensible talk. I dont think people realize that the stop at BRU could very well have been some place else in Europe. I am sure BRU wor
35 Dutchjet : Let me clarify......my point is that carriers operating ""fifth freedom"" services many times have difficulty making the flight work. SQ, a ""world-c
36 Humberside : Could Jet be doing a similar thing to Etihad and later make BOM-EWR non stop and then do a BOM-BRU 'terminator' service?
37 AKLDELNonstop : I dont see that making too much of sense really. Because if that demand existed some or the other European carrier would have flown that route either
38 BlueFlyer : At MTOW, the 777-300ER can cover 7,880 nm, about 1,000 nm more than the Great Circle distance between BOM and EWR (6,784 nm). I can't imagine that wi
39 Post contains images Kevin777 : Abrelosojos.... wondering when you might join this thread! .... Yes let's see.. what I said was that with all the capacity increases to/from India re
40 Post contains images Mk777 : Well if only 9W offered DEL/BOM-BRU-IAD service, i am sure it would do quite well, why go to airports which are already saturated with many flights to
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