Pogo From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 353 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14052 times:
I have been reliably informed that the A380 will be back at LHR on the 15th of April, more interestingly is that BA will be taking a very close interest and the A380 will be making a flight, with BA personnel on board, around the bay of biscay and back to LHR.
Arriving LHR 09.00
Departing 14.00
Arriving back at LHR 17.00
Departing for TLS 19.00
The aircraft will park at one of the new T5 stands.
I hope this information is of use to some of you, also I hope that someone can confirm these details otherwise i'm going to look a bit daft.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24891 posts, RR: 60 Reply 1, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13980 times:
Hmm interesting , time will tell, would be no harm to have the A380 back to LHR for more tests and training for ground staff. If its going to be 5 hours on the ground im sure they will be doing something like that. I would love to see BA get the A380 but im not convinced yet that they will.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21027 posts, RR: 60 Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13842 times:
Even if you weren't interested, would you turn down a joy ride in an A380?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
WAH64D From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 14 Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13854 times:
Didn't BA recently make some noise about a B748i evaluation? Looks like this could be the usual 2 manufacturers competing for 1 order scenario if its true.
The BA/A380 debate has been done to death on a.net . I personally think that the aircraft would work very well for BA in limited numbers and its no secret that BA are currently increasing their widebody capacity ala 4xB744RRs from SA.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13861 times:
Quoting WAH64D (Reply 3): The BA/A380 debate has been done to death on a.net . I personally think that the aircraft would work very well for BA in limited numbers and its no secret that BA are currently increasing their widebody capacity ala 4xB744RRs from SA.
I would think it really depends on when BA can get the aircraft, in numbers. For the A-380 that isn't until 2012-2013 right now. They can get the B-747-800I as early as 2010 (if they pushed Boeing for delivery slots), or 2011-2012.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6618 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13838 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4): I would think it really depends on when BA can get the aircraft, in numbers. For the A-380 that isn't until 2012-2013 right now. They can get the B-747-800I as early as 2010 (if they pushed Boeing for delivery slots), or 2011-2012.
Usually I would not agree. But BA adding capacity immediate after and not before the 2012 London Olympics seems to be unlikely.
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11117 posts, RR: 63 Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13802 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 5): Usually I would not agree. But BA adding capacity immediate after and not before the 2012 London Olympics seems to be unlikely.
UPS and their cancellation of the A380F has freed up 10 delivery slots, so there is a chance that BA could get some before the Olympics. The A380 though would be more useful for BA in the long run, to enable continued expansion out of LHR; with such tight restraints on slots, capacity on routes is better increased by using larger aircraft, hence I wouldn't be surprised to see an eventual fleet of 20 or so with BA.
UPS and their cancellation of the A380F has freed up 10 delivery slots, so there is a chance that BA could get some before the Olympics.
Could be the reason Airbus cancelled the 380F to concentrate on getting as many passenger frames sold as possible. And a BA order would be a great boost to the program.
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23 Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13743 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6): UPS and their cancellation of the A380F has freed up 10 delivery slots, so there is a chance that BA could get some before the Olympics.
Not only that, VS and ILFC have both deffered their deliveries until after 2012. At the moment the maximum number of A380s that are currently booked for delivery before 2013 is 141 (and that's not taking into account QF's additional order of wich deliveries are scheduled into 2015 IIRC). Roughly 100 deliveries are expected to be made upto 2010, after that Airbus intends to be able to produce at full capacity (4 a month). There should be enough slots available for BA to order atleast a dozen and to get them in time for the Olympics (if it's that were they are after).
Quoting Pogo (Thread starter): I have been reliably informed that the A380 will be back at LHR on the 15th of April, more interestingly is that BA will be taking a very close interest and the A380 will be making a flight, with BA personnel on board, around the bay of biscay and back to LHR.
That's atleast one advantage Airbus has for now. BA won't be able to get a similar experience on the 748i for the time being.
AlanUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13415 times:
Very interesting, the fact that Airbus is bringing the A380 back to Heathrow for another look!
I also heard that Lufthansa will be flying an A380 full of staff to New York for testing?
I do hope BA gets the A380, and not the B748. Boeing's 747 is over 30 years old in design, it is time to move on from that and embrace change with a more up to date design.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3016 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13316 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 5): Usually I would not agree. But BA adding capacity immediate after and not before the 2012 London Olympics seems to be unlikely
IMO to BA the 2012 Olympics is barely worthy a barrow of horse poo. The majority of Olympic teams will fly in on their own "National" airlines, many of the spectators will fly LCC to STN. And when alls said and done its all over in 2 weeks. What airline in their right mind bases their airline capacity for the next few years on 2 weeks work ?. In addition BA (and VS & all other airlines flying into LHR and to a great extent LGW & STN are constrained by slot availability. Unless the Government lifts the night curfews for the duration of the Olympics they have no way of greatly increasing capacity.
All that will happen is that for the duration of the Olympics, business travellers will decline, their places being taken up by Olympic travellers.
Business travellers will avoid London for the duration, as "rip off Britain" will see every hotel room etc double their prices.
BAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1006 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13299 times:
I think BA will definitely take a few A380's.
They would be perfect on routes like HKG-LHR where we have 3 daily departures within two hours of each other using three 747-400's and three arrival slots.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3016 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13146 times:
Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 12): Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10):
they have no way of greatly increasing capacity.
Yes, they have. If they buy the A380!!!!
Would make very little difference in an Olympic context (which is what I was referring to)
Say BA bought 10 A380's; over the effective duration of Olympic travel of 3 weeks if BA managed to operate 8 return trips per day as a result and their increase in seats was 100 compared to a 744. BA would fly 21 x 16 x 100 extra passengers which equals 33,600. A fair income I admit, but not the sort of income to use as a basis for long term investment.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24891 posts, RR: 60 Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13146 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 10): IMO to BA the 2012 Olympics is barely worthy a barrow of horse poo. The majority of Olympic teams will fly in on their own "National" airlines, many of the spectators will fly LCC to STN. And when alls said and done its all over in 2 weeks. What airline in their right mind bases their airline capacity for the next few years on 2 weeks work ?. In addition BA (and VS & all other airlines flying into LHR and to a great extent LGW & STN are constrained by slot availability. Unless the Government lifts the night curfews for the duration of the Olympics they have no way of greatly increasing capacity.
All that will happen is that for the duration of the Olympics, business travellers will decline, their places being taken up by Olympic travellers.
Business travellers will avoid London for the duration, as "rip off Britain" will see every hotel room etc double their prices.
I remember all this for the Athens 2004 Olympics and everyone complaining about costs etc... in the long run it was good for Olympic Airlines as their loads were excellent during the games and even extra flights were laid on. There was a lot of hype about hotel prices which at the start were inflated but nearer the start of the games they came back down again. I think BA could make this very successful for them with some good high quality advertising and some decent air fares. For example buy a USA to London and get 2 free domestic add ons to MAN or another English airport as I presume the events will be in other English cities also. Would be nice to see the Olympic Torch flying into the UK on a BA A380!!!! As for ''ripp off Britain'' they say the same about ''rip off Ireland'' . Things are still alot cheaper in the UK than they are here in Ireland (except for rail travel ).
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
Art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13016 times:
Quoting BAStew (Reply 11): I think BA will definitely take a few A380's.
They would be perfect on routes like HKG-LHR where we have 3 daily departures within two hours of each other using three 747-400's and three arrival slots.
Seems eminently sensible. I don't buy the counterargument that
a) using less slots is not of value to BA
b) people want to choose from 3 departures in a 2 hour period and reducing it to 2 will reduce revenue unacceptably
c) [my numbers] flying 800 pax on 2 A380's will not be cheaper than flying 800 pax on 3 748-I's
If there is an open skies EU-US agreement, I imagine that LHR slots will increase in value - new operators on the route will have to buy slots from existing slotholders IIRC
Assuming the A380's operating costs turn out as predicted, I would think that BA would be passing up quite a lot of profit if it did not buy some A380's for routes where they were eminently well suited.
Is it normal for airlines to send personnel on trips of this nature if they are not interested in acquiring the aircraft concerned? (I don't know - perhaps such an invitation would be accepted to gain insight into what the competition will be offering.)
Kaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2208 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11451 times:
Quoting Art (Reply 15): people want to choose from 3 departures in a 2 hour period and reducing it to 2 will reduce revenue unacceptably
Absolutely correct
Quoting Art (Reply 15): [my numbers] flying 800 pax on 2 A380's will not be cheaper than flying 800 pax on 3 748-I's
Ok, I can see that. However, BA is one of the many airlines who in fact fly 10 or so flights from LHR-JFK using a mix of 777s and 747s. Now, if BA believed your theory, they would use all 747s and reduce frequency. An airline like BA bases it self mainly around business travelers, and not so much around leisure travelers. Business travelers want a lot of frequencies to choose from. If they can't find it on a BA flight, they will simply pick another airline.
Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 7): Could be the reason Airbus cancelled the 380F to concentrate on getting as many passenger frames sold as possible. And a BA order would be a great boost to the program.
Airbus already invested tons of money into the A380F. They even started construction. I doubt Airbus would kill the program themselves.
If BA orders the A380, there would be a huge gap in their fleet, as the next largest aircraft would be the 777-200ER. So, I think BA will order either the A380 and the 777-300ER, or order just the 747-8.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3016 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11287 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16): If BA orders the A380, there would be a huge gap in their fleet, as the next largest aircraft would be the 777-200ER. So, I think BA will order either the A380 and the 777-300ER, or order just the 747-8.
Why would there be a huge gap in BA's fleet ?. No one anywhere has suggested that BA is contemplating the total replacement of the 744 fleet at this time, assuming that BA will stick to its usual approach of running long haul planes for approx 25 years, the last 744's have until 2023
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11094 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16): If BA orders the A380, there would be a huge gap in their fleet, as the next largest aircraft would be the 777-200ER. So, I think BA will order either the A380 and the 777-300ER, or order just the 747-8.
I dont think anybody thinks BA will replace the 747 fleet entirely with A380s. Its also worth not ignoring that BA stagger their 747 capacity from 290 to 390 approx. So taking the manufacturers figures of 474 and 550 for the 748i and A380 would be pointless, as BA would be likely to configure their A380s with about 385 seats and upwards. So Much for a 200 seat gap.
Lite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10904 times:
Given that there is no immediate third runway in sight for LHR, but there is an ever increasing number of passengers wanting to fly, I'd have thought that the Airbus 380 presents a good opportunity for BA to make the best use of their existing slots on routes where they cannot expand frequencies but want to add more seats onto a route. Also given that BA has a good working relationship with Airbus (possibly we'll see an A318 order for the Cityflyer operation over the next few years) and T5 will be equipped to handle this new aircraft, the set up is all there, and an order of the 380 from BA would be a huge boost to the programme, so no doubt Airbus would offer a competitive deal.
BAStew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1006 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10888 times:
Quoting EI321 (Reply 20): Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):
If BA orders the A380, there would be a huge gap in their fleet, as the next largest aircraft would be the 777-200ER. So, I think BA will order either the A380 and the 777-300ER, or order just the 747-8.
I dont think anybody thinks BA will replace the 747 fleet entirely with A380s. Its also worth not ignoring that BA stagger their 747 capacity from 290 to 390 approx. So taking the manufacturers figures of 474 and 550 for the 748i and A380 would be pointless, as BA would be likely to configure their A380s with about 385 seats and upwards. So Much for a 200 seat gap.
The 747 would definitely not be replaced by the A380. When Mr Walsh travelled to NRT for the JL/oneworld ceremony he was quizzed by the crew as to future route/fleet plans and mentioned that IF BA took the A380 they would probably take no more than 10.
Art From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 2937 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10658 times:
Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16): BA is one of the many airlines who in fact fly 10 or so flights from LHR-JFK using a mix of 777s and 747s.
You may have missed the route referred to. My comment was intended for the sort of route where there are geographical dictates regarding departure times.
Quoting BAStew (Reply 11): They would be perfect on routes like HKG-LHR where we have 3 daily departures within two hours of each other using three 747-400's and three arrival slots.
FlyLKU From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 721 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10603 times:
Maybe with recent cancellations Airbus has extended a deal that BA can't refuse ... to at least evaluate further. The smart money never stops evaluating options and BA is (are) smart.
...are we there yet?
25 Kaitak744: I see. Well, in BA' recent RFP, didn't they state that they wanted to replace 20 or so of their oldest 747-400s? So, if BA were to order for instance
26 EI321: Or A350-1000s. The replacements are not due for delivery until after 2012.
27 BlueFlyer: You seem to forget that the Olympic Games is the one event that draws more people from more countries than any other (save perhaps the World Cup). Wh
28 Bongodog1964: This theory would work if BA where looking at a permanant requirement; but for only three weeks, you wouldn't gear up to get crew qualified on new ai
29 VV701: Hmmm. Sorry. I thought that the 380 was a long haul aircraft and that the LCCs operating into STN were short haul. But there you go. Yeah. Sorry agai
30 Jacobin777: The A350-1000 won't be seeing services until 2015-2016....and BA certainly won't be one of the first carriers flying that machine... ...that's a good
31 Ikramerica: They also can increase tourism dramatically after the games, but this doesn't last forever. Further, I don't think the effect on tourism is as great
32 Scotron11: I know SYD tourism grew a bit after the games, and now it's trailed off. I think it kinda died! And the Tourist Board did this huge advertising promo
33 Columba: I strongly believe that BA will use both aircraft the A380 and the 747-8I. BA is one of the few airlines that I can see having a need for both a 500 a
34 Keesje: Wasn´t this mentioned by BA as a reason why the A380 might make sense? Personally I would be too depressed with 2 departures in 2 hrs iso 3. General
35 Bongodog1964: Why are you saying sorry as you reply to each of my quotes, when you are fundamentally agreeing with me ? Is there some reverse logic here ? [Edited
36 OA260: I posted this idea in another thread but if MH cancel their 6 A380's maybe BA will take the delivery slots!!! Just a theory.
37 Art: Just another theory. Airbus will use the MH slots for existing orders to reduce compensation payments to existing customers (always assuming MH cance
38 Glom: Have they sorted the separation problem out? There was a point where A380s were going to decrease capacity, rather than increase it.
39 Glareskin: BA is definitely one of these airlines that could well use the A380. I.M.O. they didn't really look into it so far because they are always reluctant i
40 2wingtips: Interesting but don't read too much into it. Boeing showed off the 777 to QF several times that reportedly impressed most, but no order was forthcomi
41 2wingtips: What about the 11 abreast 380 config talked about by Leahy last week. I gather the only possibility is 3+5+3 or 5 middle seats. That would make the A
42 Rivet42: The last I read (about a month ago) is that the A.380 is certified as requiring the following wake clearances for subsequent aircraft on approach: 'h
43 BmiBaby737: I hear this visit has now been cancelled. Anyone know anything more??? Bmi
44 SEPilot: But with only 10 orders and no immediate prospects for more, while paying very heavy penalties for late delivery I believe they did, as it would be a
45 Rhysobeseo: I am planning to go to heathrow to see the a380, but I will need to stay n a hotel, does anyone have any confirmation that it will be there, it would
46 Pogo: THE VISIT HAS BEEN CANCELLED, ATC have got involved and said that on a busy sunday 4 slots would have to be lost as well as extended separation to ma
47 OA260: Thats a shame !! Cant they do it on another less buys day rather than just cancel it?? It would look amazing in BA colours.
48 KC135TopBoom: The B-747-800 is an up to date design. Even though QF will configure their A-380s with "just" 500 seats, doesn't mean any other airline will go much
49 BlueShamu330s: No such reason. If BAA told NATS the A380 was coming, they'd have to damned well get on with it. BAA contracts NATS to supply a service, not the othe
50 BigJKU: Just a question but if the A380 cannot come in on a Sunday because it is busy what are they going to do with 20 of them around each day?
51 Keesje: They have 291 on many of their current 747-400. Why would they put 130 additional on a 747-8i? The seating capasity diffrence between 747-8i and A380
52 BA380: I can still imagine them usinga limited number of 380s. The HKG argument is well made. Further, at key times, LHR to JFK is like a local bus service,
53 OA260: This is just a test flight so it needs a whole new slot where as the A380's operating for the airlines will be existing slots that the airlines have
54 Pogo: I am just saying what I have been told but I understand your point and I will try and dig a bit deeper. Exactly.
55 BlueShamu330s: .....and an ATCO who wouldn't want to rise to the 'challenge' shouldn't be in the job !! Plus, can you believe the Press reaction...." Airbus in dire
56 Keesje: Don´t look at now,we are talking 2011-2031 services. Airtraffic is expected to triplle in th next 20 years. BA indicated the initial order will be f
57 BA787: Look at the size of the current 767 fleet mate. If BA choose to replace the 767s with 787s expect no more than 20. The fact is they are going towards
58 EI321: A look at the 'typical' seat sizes for the 767/788/A358 in 3 class configuration. 767-300ER - 218 787-8 - 250 A350-800 - 270 BA currently have 192 sea
59 BA787: Hence why I see a minority order of 787s to replace the 763ers, and possibly open some more long-haul routes that do not warrant a 777. Maybe some mo
60 Keesje: So what is your point "mate" ? Is it a fact they are going towards bigger aircraft OR order just a minor number of A380´s to replace the first 20 74
61 BA787: My point is they have two choices, and I see neither of them concerning a huge amount of 787s unless they are of the -1000 form
62 Pogo: The thing is BAA would not have had anything to do with this visit, all the compatability tests and wing tip clearance tests were done when it origin
63 BlueShamu330s: Factually inaccurate. Read on..... The thing is, this or any other visit would have everything to do with BAA; It is their runway, their manouevering
64 OA260: Well then they should get their ass in gear and offer an alternative date if this is true. How did they manage it the first time ???
65 Helvknight: By 747 do you mean 744 or 748? I thought the 747-8i was in the same "Super heavy" category as the A380 and required the same clearances.
66 BlueShamu330s: ...sigh... I'm not inferring the BAA gazumped this alledged visit. I initially stated that the inferrence that ATC had 'got involved' and had caused
67 Pogo: So you are saying that it is BAA who are responsible for cancelling the visit, if not where would you place the blame? I WAS A BIT LATE WITH THIS POS
68 BlueShamu330s: LOL, let's put it to bed then Shamu
69 Pogo: We'll agree to diagree, I am not trying to prove anyone wrong, as I said before I am getting information from my colleague at work who works closely
70 AvObserver: Only the basic airframe, almost all else about it has been revised, much of it substantially, since then. The 748, as a stretch, has better structura
72 Zeke: Been told the LHR is commissioning a new control tower this month, we have been asked to change some of our schedule times and they have waived the n
73 OzGlobal: How can one "know" something that is false? SYD and Oz tourism is growing on average 4.3% per annum since 2001 (ie AFTER the games). It has grown fro
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