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LAS To See Return Of Right Turn On 3/20  
User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

From www.reviewjournal.com

Quote:

'Right turn' procedure starts tomorrow
A last-minute attempt by the city of Las Vegas to prevent a new departure path for flights out of McCarran International Airport failed today.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected the city's request for an emergency stay, said a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.

The new route will start at 6 a.m. Tuesday, sending about 200 planes a day on the "right turn" procedure over northwest Las Vegas, FAA spokesman Ian Gregor said.

The city's broader legal challenge against the plan is still proceeding in court.

The new and modified departure procedures I see on Airnav are Oveto Three and STAAV Three. I'll be listening to the feed from Liveatc.net to see how many planes actually end up using the right turn. And its a shame the airspace fixes arent loaded into airnav's database, I'd like to plot them on a map to see exactly where they're suppoed to be at what elevations.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Congratulations. I'll be playing golf in Summerlin tomorrow afternoon, and I'll be waving and smiling as the planes go by overhead.

User currently offlineSEAdomer787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2853 times:
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How is this any different than what was done prior? I used to live in Vegas and every flight I took off 25R (at least to the east coast) would fly a similar path. Is it just a tighter turn?

User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

No, after 9/11 the right turn was abolished. Traffic has finally increased to the point to where they needed to bring it back. Was attempted to be stopped by Summerlin NIMBYs (which I'm sort of one of, though I'm generally far enough west that I dont hear commercial traffic - I usually hear helicopters and props headed out over Red Rock).

User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

I must be a NIMBY neighbor to SirOmega- I live West of I-215 and don't anticipate hearing anything as the aircraft will be so high up when they reach that part of the Summerlin area. The helicopters do piss me off though!

User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
No, after 9/11 the right turn was abolished. Traffic has finally increased to the point to where they needed to bring it back. Was attempted to be stopped by Summerlin NIMBYs (which I'm sort of one of, though I'm generally far enough west that I dont hear commercial traffic - I usually hear helicopters and props headed out over Red Rock).

I flew from LAS to ORD on a redeye flight about 9 months ago, and we definitely did a right turn out of LAS. I was expecting us to turn left to fly the TRALR departure, but we didn't, and it surprised the hell out of me.

Quoting SirOmega (Thread starter):
The new and modified departure procedures I see on Airnav are Oveto Three and STAAV Three.

The Oveto three is not a modified procedure at all. Its been as published for a while. The latest Jeppessen page on it is dated January of this year, but it also said there were no changes, meaning the change was to the flip side of the page. Not sure how long this procedure has been in place, but this is probably what I flew on that aforementioned ORD flight. The STAAV RNAV departure however, is considerably different from the old procedure. The thing is, there are alot of eastbound flights which flie the COWBY departure instead of the TRALR departure, and those will still make the left turn. I am not sure whether TRALR or STAAV will be filed for DVC or BCE as both are still active, but I also think it depends on which runway is being used. If they are using the 7's, which is rare, they can fly straight out.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2631 times:

A major, and possibly subtle change between the STAAV2 and the STAAV3 is that STAAV is now 18NM from where it used be. There was a 56-day cycle change effective on March 15th, and it usually seems to take airnav.com a few days to get all the new stuff in...

User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

Ah, does the FAA have any place to download the fix lat/long data? I actually plotted STAAV on a map and it was up in northtown. I should do a google maps of the points and paths used for the right turn.. hmmm..

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 7):
Ah, does the FAA have any place to download the fix lat/long data?

There's probably one out there somewhere. There's no lat/on the plate, but the new STAAV is about the MLF R-199/155.1, if that helps...

I'll see if I can find a new lat/lon when I get some time later on..


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 7):
Ah, does the FAA have any place to download the fix lat/long data? I actually plotted STAAV on a map and it was up in northtown. I should do a google maps of the points and paths used for the right turn.. hmmm..

Try www.airnav.com. Because of the GPS on Mircosoft Flight Simulator not being able to update with each airac cycle, I often went to this site for coordinates that I could program, so that I could fly RNAV departures out of LAS, ATL, and DFW.

According to this website, the coordinates for STAAV are 36-19-00.000N 115-08-34.000W.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 9):
Try www.airnav.com.

I know about the site, but the issue was whether airnav,com had been updated for the 56-day cycle or not. and whether their lat/lon for STAAV is the old one, or the new one. I've seen them take as long as a week to update sometimes...


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

[quote=Apodino,reply=9]According to this website, the coordinates for STAAV are 36-19-00.000N 115-08-34.000W./quote]

That looks like the old one, meaning airnav has indeed not updated yet.

I went here:
http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...c/publications/atpubs/LID/L_PS.htm

..and the new STAAV effective 3/15 0901z shows:

STAAV NV
36-12-01.1600N 114-46-58.2400W


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Well that was quick...

For all you LAS folk, this is the track for STAAV Three depature. I also put the Oveto marker on there too. You can see STAAV way out there to the east - near Lake Mead NRA.

http://24.234.196.227/gmaps/rt/rightturn.html

If I remember right, I got into an argument with another A.netter about where the planes would turn right. It appears from my map that they do in fact go over the house in which I grew up, in The Lakes (near DI and Ft Apache).


User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2294 times:

i was wondering why i was seeing WN and HP turning right this morning when i was checkin out flightaware.com this morning. i figured they woulda got in trouble for it.

Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 2):
How is this any different than what was done prior? I used to live in Vegas and every flight I took off 25R (at least to the east coast) would fly a similar path. Is it just a tighter turn?

the people who lived in Summerlin got "upset" that planes were flying over their houses and somehow got the FAA to ban aircraft from turning right.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
No, after 9/11 the right turn was abolished.

that reason is incorrect....they abolished the right turn in 2005 (or around that time)

[Edited 2007-03-21 05:24:06]


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
User currently offlineMikesairways From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2238 times:
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I was in LAS this morning and saw a quick bit on the news about it...just landed from my LAS-SJC flight and we did not turn right - took the normal (yet very bumpy) left turn out.


The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
User currently offlineHPLASOps From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting Mikesairways (Reply 14):
I was in LAS this morning and saw a quick bit on the news about it...just landed from my LAS-SJC flight and we did not turn right - took the normal (yet very bumpy) left turn out.

Well, I don't think it was a requirement for flights to turn right off 25R. I was listening carefully on ramp control freq today and I noticed that they were asking each flight what their intended heading would be, as if they were trying to get a survey of exactly how many flights were going to use the right turn. Perhaps your captain decided to use the left turn vector, or perhaps was not aware of the change since it only occured this morning.


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