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EU-Open Skies New Routes And Changes-guesses  
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5065 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

With this new open skies business happening, how soon would we see new routes and changes to current schedules? Also what are some good guesses as to what routes will see changes. Here at IAH my guess is that BA will discontinue IAH-DTW-LHR and switch to IAH-LHR with 744 and leave at least 1 run to LGW with a 777 or a 763. CO would most certainly switch at least one route to LHR. I also forsee DFW and ATL switching over to LHR from those respective carriers. What are some guesses? What about BM and VS?


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4665 times:

Well, I suppose the obvious, at least from the U.S. side:

American

D/FW-Heathrow (move both 50/51 and 78/79 from Gatwick to Heathrow, and reinstate 80/81 as a DFW-LGW 767)
Raleigh-Heathrow (move the existing Gatwick flight over to Heathrow)
Miami-Barcelona (an obvious no-brainer, at least in my mind, but who knows if it will actually happen)

Continental

Houston-Heathrow (move both existing Gatwick 777 flights over to Heathrow)
Newark-Heathrow (move both existing Gatwick flights over to Heathrow, and maybe add another 1-2 daily flights)
Cleveland-Heathrow (move existing Gatwick 757 flights over to Heathrow)

Delta

Atlanta-Heathrow (move all the Gatwick flights over to Heathrow)
Cincinnati-Heathrow (move the daily Gatwick flight over to Heathrow)
New York JFK-Heathrow (move the Gatwick flights and build up to 2-3 daily flights, if they can find the slots)

Northwest

Detroit-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)
Minneapolis-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)

United

Denver-Heathrow (I think this one will probably be announced about .6 seconds after the ink is dry on the deal)

USAirways

Charlotte-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)
Philadelphia-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24815 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

All wishful thinking, but where are the current non LHR carriers going to get the slots from?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2948 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

Assuming the Shannon stopover requirement goes away, I think most if not all of the DUB-SNN triangle flights will disappear, and the balance of flights between the US and Ireland will shift in favor of nonstops to DUB. I would expect service to SNN to be mostly seasonal (summer) except for major routes such as NYC which might remain year round.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11129 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
All wishful thinking, but where are the current non LHR carriers going to get the slots from?

I'm sure that if the price is right, they'll find some European carrier that will happily fork over slots. Heathrow is worth a lot, but it's worth different amounts to different people. For an airline like Continental or Delta desperate to get into Heathrow (for years), they would likely be willing to pay more and place a higher value on a peak-time slot than, say, a European airline that already has 15-20 daily flights into the airport and could, if necessary, afford to lose a few.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
Assuming the Shannon stopover requirement goes away, I think most if not all of the DUB-SNN triangle flights will disappear, and the balance of flights between the US and Ireland will shift in favor of nonstops to DUB.

Agreed. If this deal goes through, Shannon is going to lose just about all of its nonstop service to the U.S. Aer Lingus may keep a single daily A330 to JFK and/or BOS, and maybe Continental, Delta and USAirways could maintain service there on a seasonal and/or year-round basis, but I think that would be about it. I think AA, for example, would drop the SNN stopover on their ORD-Ireland triangle routing in a second if given the chance.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
I would expect service to SNN to be mostly seasonal (summer) except for major routes such as NYC which might remain year round.

Indeed. Continental could still support a 757 from EWR, and Delta possibly a 767 or 757 from JFK, and probably USAirways a 767 from PHL, but that will be about it.


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4563 times:
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Well, I suppose the obvious, at least from the U.S. side:

American

D/FW-Heathrow (move both 50/51 and 78/79 from Gatwick to Heathrow, and reinstate 80/81 as a DFW-LGW 767)
Raleigh-Heathrow (move the existing Gatwick flight over to Heathrow)
Miami-Barcelona (an obvious no-brainer, at least in my mind, but who knows if it will actually happen)

Continental

Houston-Heathrow (move both existing Gatwick 777 flights over to Heathrow)
Newark-Heathrow (move both existing Gatwick flights over to Heathrow, and maybe add another 1-2 daily flights)
Cleveland-Heathrow (move existing Gatwick 757 flights over to Heathrow)

Delta

Atlanta-Heathrow (move all the Gatwick flights over to Heathrow)
Cincinnati-Heathrow (move the daily Gatwick flight over to Heathrow)
New York JFK-Heathrow (move the Gatwick flights and build up to 2-3 daily flights, if they can find the slots)

Northwest

Detroit-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)
Minneapolis-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)

United

Denver-Heathrow (I think this one will probably be announced about .6 seconds after the ink is dry on the deal)

USAirways

Charlotte-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)
Philadelphia-Heathrow (transferring the existing Gatwick flight)

Most of this wil happen over the next ten years, but why would DL move Atlanta to LHR when it owns ATL ? These moves have to be made for competitive reasons and not ego reasons. Continental and Delta will move the their New York flights first, then last will be the RDU and CLE flights. I'm also interested to see what AA does about DFW-LGW, since it has the largest US slot allotment, will the Texas size civic pride force AA to move the DFW flights and be less competitive in another market.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5216 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

In the AA-BA anti-trust immunity case, CO said they needed slots for 6 EWR, 3 IAH, and 1 CLE flights. That may have been a bit of grandstanding, but they did trot out some numbers to justify the increases in EWR and IAH.

If VS goes ahead with plans to run flights out of other EU cities to the US, some of the other airlines in those cities might be tempted to retaliate out of LHR.

Does LHR have plans to distribute any new slots attributable to mixed mode runway operations? Or is that prospect just a dream?



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12325 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Until LHR is available for full "Open Skies" access, expected to be in March 2008 (although I've heard conflicting info on this), there probably won't be increased access for BA and VS either; after all, it would be unfair to CO and DL if BA could move IAH and ATL, respectively, to LHR. I don't think the Americans would have that; not sure about AA, although I expect that this would wait until 2008. After all, most carriers wouldn't mind too much since this means they'd start new routes for the Summer season.

As to the new slots, mixed mode ops are expected to begin at LHR sometime in 2008-9, so perhaps US carriers will get new slots as a result of that. Existing airlines will find the value of their slots suddenly going up very considerably!


User currently offlineCopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 595 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

I think one of the first thing to come is BMI announcing they will start flight to US from Heathrow. They have the slots 14% and can use them as they want. Star alliance needs to be more visible on that segment. Or they could sell some slots. SAS owe 20% of the stocks in BMI and have been waiting on this for years. Either way, using the slots or sell them could be a goldmine

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Miami-Barcelona (an obvious no-brainer, at least in my mind, but who knows if it will actually happen)

Is there something in the U.S.-Spain bilateral preventing this from happening now, if AA wanted to?

Anyway, I think "new routes" other than obvious pining for Heathrow slots, would actually come from the further reaches of Europe. For example, in the early part of the jet age, it wasn't unusual for a European airline to stop in another country on its way to the U.S. LH and AY at AMS, and if memory serves, SK stopped at ORY and AZ stopped at LIS. We could very well see an airline tag a U.S. flight onto a route within Europe they already have sustainable traffic on. Say LOT had good traffic to Zurich (I don't know if they do or not, but let's just say they did), they could put a bigger plane on the route, and continue onto the U.S. from Zurich. Or say SK could fill half a plane to somewhere in the U.S. out of Oslo if they could pickup traffic somewhere else along the way, like Edinburgh.

In essence, I would forsee Secondary/Regional/Lower Volume City -> Major City in second country -> U.S. as a scenario, rather than something along the lines of IB opening up a nonstop routing between FCO-JFK, for example. It just seems in terms of aircraft utilization, that would be the way to go to capitalize upon the opportunity best.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBCALBOY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Attached is something I posted on another site recently - very much from a UK perspective.

Carrier reaction ( my thoughts).......

AA - move DFW,RDU to LHR ...poss new routes to SFO,SEA,IAD or will they keep presence @ LGw...1 DFW ...RDU ?

DL - priority JFK ( need 3 or 4 to compete ) plus hometown ATL....maybe leave CVG and 1ATL; @ LGW .

CO - PRIORITY EWR ( again 3 or 4 /day ) plus IAH......will they keep 1 x EWR @ LGW plus seasonal Cle.

US - wud want to move whole OP to LHR ...would they add PHX to PHL/CLT.

NW - wud want whole op to LHR ....would they add SEA to MSP/DTT.

UA- LHR/AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN ? ( Think they-ve already tried BOS/MIA AND PULLED).

VS- LHR/LAS ?

BA- ATL/DFW/IAH ( already reported in press) wud they incr SEA frequency to protect or move BWI/DTT to LGW or pull to provide slots for others ?

BD Which routes make sense...JFK wud need 3-4/day ...which needs 3-4 a/c plus big revamp of their business product....LAS ?.....ORD..what will UA think abt that ? Will they pull MAN LHL to release the a/c...think they only started MAN as they had ordered a/c in anticipation of LHR opening up and it didn-t !!


Where will the slots come from in short-term ?

Skyteam....wud KL pull or move EIN/RTM to LCT to help DL/CO/NW ? Cant see AF/KL reducing AMS/CDG.

OneWorld....Cant see BA helping anyone other than themselves.....will they transfer to LGW...e.g. MRU ,BWI,DTW or reduce Domestic Freq further or move some very shorthaul to LCY or pull routes like STR or get GB slots to AGP/RAK/CMN or have they already bought BMED slots from BD ??

STAR...WILL BD help anyone other than themselves.....PMI/VCE/NAP/HAJ/INV/JER/MME/ABZ ??
Would LH help UA by say pulling CGN ??

Any other carriers willing to deal and move to LGW or LCY....AirJamaica, AIR Seychelles , Bangladesh Biman, PIA , LUXAIR , CZECH ??

Where will the extra Aircraft reqrd come from , in the short-term ?

Reported eleswhere that DL have reduced LGW/ATL freq from up to 4/day in Summer peak ( and incl some 777 ) to only 2/day on 763 this year to fund LGW/JFK.

Will BD abandon MAN/ORD , MAN/LAS etc to provide resources for LHR ?

767 is seen as old and inferior in the UK Mkt .When BA have been forced to sub to 767 , reaction from Premium Mkt is usually very negative.

Also don-t under-estimate the attraction of LHR to the High Yield Mkt.
In the UK LGW is seem as a Leisure airport...thats why the yielads are so much higher at LHR and why all carriers want to fly from LHR .

Delta may own ATL but they would be at a big disadvantage if they optd ATLLGW against BA ATLLHR OPERATION.
US are pretty dominant @ PHL ....just look at how they do on PHLLGW agst BA on PHLLHR.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):

Does LHR have plans to distribute any new slots attributable to mixed mode runway operations? Or is that prospect just a dream?

According to EC regulation any 'new' slots would go to the 'pool' and be allocated in accordance with normal procedures. New entrants have first call on 50% of the slots, giving US airlines (other than AA/UA) some priority.

There has been some talk in Brussels about implementing a scheme where such 'new' slots would be subject to an auction - but no consensus on who would get the money, and my guess is that we wouldn't see this for some years.

Of course 'slots' is just the beginning of the process. Airlines need to secure terminal and gate space that coincide with their arrival/departure slots etc. And, of course, should all of this be implemented on a single day (say for example at the beginning of a schedules period) in a big bang it will be a right mess.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
Assuming the Shannon stopover requirement goes away,

In the draft agreement the SNN rule is phased out at the end of the winter season 2007/8.

The only place I have been able to find the text of the agreement is here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...?uri=CELEX:52006PC0169(02):EN:HTML. It is buried in the text of a Council regulation - but it is there.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4313 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Denver-Heathrow (I think this one will probably be announced about .6 seconds after the ink is dry on the deal)

You think they would be that slow!
 Wink

I See BMI going for JFK with the big O&D market, but as already has been stated they will need to offer multiple frequencies, at least three to make that look attractive.

Exciting times ahead and not before time!


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 10):
Skyteam....wud KL pull or move EIN/RTM to LCT to help DL/CO/NW ?

Those 30 min slot pairs (at T4) would be useless to Skyteam.


User currently offlineBCALBOY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

I-m not suggesting replacing e.g. each EIN slot pair with a transatlantic rotation.

They wud have to juggle and swap to make it work.

Same applys to BMI ( who everyone says sitting on pot of gold ) , their T/Rs are all 35-50 mins so wither have to
waste slots i.e use dep from one pair and arr from another or do a lot of swapping/juggling...obviously easier for
BD to juggle with large slot hldg .


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4201 times:

Except for the UK and Ireland I don't expect any immediate changes over the Atlantic (I don't think VS will be successful outside of LHR).

The other most likely new routes by European carriers might be LH flying some 346 for LX or AF some 747 for KL. But that would be just some short period provisions.


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 16):
Except for the UK and Ireland I don't expect any immediate changes over the Atlantic (I don't think VS will be successful outside of LHR).

The other most likely new routes by European carriers might be LH flying some 346 for LX or AF some 747 for KL. But that would be just some short period provisions.

Agree that the European Network airlines will likely stick to their existing hubs. What we may see are the new kids on the block with a different business model - like Silverjet either extending their existing services NYC-LTN-PAR or bringing their business model to other European hubs.


User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
Assuming the Shannon stopover requirement goes away, I think most if not all of the DUB-SNN triangle flights will disappear, and the balance of flights between the US and Ireland will shift in favor of nonstops to DUB. I would expect service to SNN to be mostly seasonal (summer) except for major routes such as NYC which might remain year round.

it would be a real shame to seeing the end of Clearing US Immigration in Ireland and arriving at the domestic gates in the US !! Flying via SNN alone (that extra hour) is worth the 90 minutes saved at US immigration in the US, and the Shannon US Immigration officials even smile at you and are happy with their work !

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
I'm sure that if the price is right, they'll find some European carrier that will happily fork over slots. Heathrow is worth a lot, but it's worth different amounts to different people. For an airline like Continental or Delta desperate to get into Heathrow (for years), they would likely be willing to pay more and place a higher value on a peak-time slot than, say, a European airline that already has 15-20 daily flights into the airport and could, if necessary, afford to lose a few.

I dont understand the mad rush to Heathrow, it just doesnt make sense. As side from the slots, which terminal would they goto ? CO ? Terminal 3.. thats a ghetto right now and over crowded. T1.. too small for Long Haul on a massive basis.. T2 ? This is a dive. LHR isnt attractive to a new carrier offering 9x dailys to the US.

I can imagine DL diverting it's prime routes to LHR, and for AA the infrastructure is already in place for a move, but everything and everyone else I would imagine would stay at LGW.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 6):
If VS goes ahead with plans to run flights out of other EU cities to the US, some of the other airlines in those cities might be tempted to retaliate out of LHR

I would guess VS move a BRU-JFK, and maybe a FRA-JFK (with SQ pulling it's own flight out).
I can't imagine much more.

Quoting Copenhagenboy (Reply 8):
I think one of the first thing to come is BMI announcing they will start flight to US from Heathrow. They have the slots 14% and can use them as they want. Star alliance needs to be more visible on that segment. Or they could sell some slots. SAS owe 20% of the stocks in BMI and have been waiting on this for years. Either way, using the slots or sell them could be a goldmine

This is the biggest winner.
I would expect BMI to move (ORD/LAS) from MAN to LHR immediately.
I would also expect the end of Antigua, Barbados (code share to VS)
Then add a daily JFK, and a second 3x weekly JFK.
(Dont forget bmi only has 3x A330 and a poor history at finding lease aircraft)

I wouldnt expect any slot sales from bmi, (and SAS/LH are both a minority stake holder in bmi, so cannot force a slot sale), however I wouldnt be surprised if a BMI slot was made available for a SAS or LH to USA via LHR flight and the opening of a LHR-Scandinavia/German BMI route for one of it's A320s which are under utilised)

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Say LOT had good traffic to Zurich

Rumours ive heard from friends in Poland say LOT have a plan for it's KRK flight to the US to make a stopover in Europe. ORD/JFK via CDG / LHR was mentioned, especially as they hold a very early am LHR-WAW slot which isnt performing and would time very work well for an inbound US flight. LOT havent had a London-KRK route since centralwings took the LGW-KRK route. There's also plans for long haul from RZE (200km/3hour drive east of KRK) via another city to the US. Despite being a minor backwater airport RZE is proving very high yields (its Ryanairs most expensive polish flight.. £200+ return 6mths in advance during peak season! - even higher than KRK and many of the KRK-US flights passengers originate from east of KRK)

I would expect other east europe carriers to take a similar approach (CSA/Malev etc).

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 10):
BD Which routes make sense...JFK wud need 3-4/day ...which needs 3-4 a/c plus big revamp of their business product....LAS ?.....ORD..what will UA think abt that ? Will they pull MAN LHL to release the a/c...think they only started MAN as they had ordered a/c in anticipation of LHR opening up and it didn-t !!

If UA couldnt fill 4x a day to JFK, in Star Alliance and with BD feed, then BMI wont either. BA/VS simply dominate this route from the UK, and AA from the US. BD appeals to a larger UK niche than UA, and therefore could make a go of it more than UA could, however no more than 1x a day and maybe 2x on certain days (Friday/Sundays).

I would also expect BA to reduce it's LHR-JFK frequency from 8x daily to 5x daily and re-deploy on other US routes.. say DFW, LAS, which BD could pick up some passengers.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 701 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 18):
it would be a real shame to seeing the end of Clearing US Immigration in Ireland and arriving at the domestic gates in the US !! Flying via SNN alone (that extra hour) is worth the 90 minutes saved at US immigration in the US, and the Shannon US Immigration officials even smile at you and are happy with their work

You can clear US customs in DUB too, not just SNN so the option of clearing in Ireland will remain either way.

I would expect to see ORK getting flights to US if the deal goes through, most likely CO 757 to EWR



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4106 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Say LOT had good traffic to Zurich (I don't know if they do or not, but let's just say they did), they could put a bigger plane on the route, and continue onto the U.S. from Zurich. Or say SK could fill half a plane to somewhere in the U.S. out of Oslo if they could pickup traffic somewhere else along the way, like Edinburgh.

Neither Switzerland, not Norway are part of the European Union. I doubt whether there are plans to extand the open-skies proposal to aligned countries such as Norway or Switzerland


User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Quoting KL577 (Reply 20):
Neither Switzerland, not Norway are part of the European Union. I doubt whether there are plans to extand the open-skies proposal to aligned countries such as Norway or Switzerland

In the case of Switzerland this might be covered under the bilateral agreements. Certainly I think Switzerland is part of the EU Open Skies deal hence AF being allowedeto fly to ZRH from LCY.


User currently offlineKL577 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 21):
Quoting KL577 (Reply 20):
Neither Switzerland, not Norway are part of the European Union. I doubt whether there are plans to extand the open-skies proposal to aligned countries such as Norway or Switzerland


In the case of Switzerland this might be covered under the bilateral agreements. Certainly I think Switzerland is part of the EU Open Skies deal hence AF being allowedeto fly to ZRH from LCY.

I thought indeed both Norway and Switzerland are part of the EU open skies zone, but will they join a US-EU open skies zone?


User currently offlineANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3991 times:

No Switzerland and Norway are not parties to this agreement - see my link above to the text of the agreement. Also missing are Bulgaria and Romania which joined the EU 1 January 2007. Curious.

User currently offlineTi717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

When will the EU carrier set up a new flight. VS has said there looking at service from other EU cities. My guess would be CDG to LAX and NYC.

I could see would be either a Eastern EU airline starting service from LHR or CDG to NYC and undercutting AF prices or someone going after a weaker carrier home country i.e. Italy .

Ti717



Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
25 BCALBOY : Yields and connections at LHR are vastly superior to LGW .Even though LGW may be a nicer airport to travel thru , the customers especially the high y
26 AeroWesty : How funny. I was just picking cities out of a hat, and I happened to pick the two which wouldn't apply at all. Well, just substitute something else f
27 Jfk777 : What ever happens with Open Skies there is no way BA is giving up more then one frequency to JFK, they may downsize from 744 to 777 but they will main
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