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United Saga Finally Over  
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11873 times:

And so I can finally close that chapter of my life.

For those of you who don't know, I was let go by UA in December of 2005, because I dared to enforce FAA Carry-on regulations on a 1K. He raise a stink, of course but more importantly he totally made up allegations of physical abuses on my part, and intimidation.

UA always a company that says it will back up it's employees over safety and regulations, bowed to the pressure and let me go, but not before I worked the Thanksgiving and Christmas rush. You see I was such a danger to other passengers I wasn't even suspended.

Of course the Union and I fought UA. So now the Company has offered a settlement. For confidentiality reasons I can't get into specifics but lets just say I got what I wanted. I can put United on my resume and they can't say anything to future employers. The Customer probably got a free flight, but I got so much more.

So in the end I was right, I tried to protect the company from a possible fine, now the company has to pay, except they pay me instead. This all could have been easily avoided if they just enforce the rules they have equally.

What wonderful managerial decisions they make at UAL.

One last thing, I am still proud of the service I provided to the customers while I was at United. I am proud of the people I worked with there as well. So eventhough I'm gone never to return (what I do now is so much better) and my criticism of UA management is more personal now more than ever, I will never stop using UALPHLCS as my handle. It is a great and proud airline that manages to do a great job despite the terrible management from the rotten center of middle management. Bureaucrats who don't know an airplane from their ass-end. You all want to know where UA's problems stem from? From it's bloated mid-section, not from its brain-trust or the boots on the ground.

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6347 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11752 times:

Are you sure you weren't let go because of your behavior and attitude towards customers and supervisors. I do not know the details but I would bet you were not let go because you enforced an FAA carry on rule.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Thread starter):
despite the terrible management from the rotten center of middle management. Bureaucrats who don't know an airplane from their ass-end.

Sounds to like you did not get along with your manager!!! Why are we to assume you know more about airplanes than your manager?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11744 times:

I'm glad everything worked out, and I hope you are able to take the next step "up" the career ladder. Hopefully this is a life experience that will take you to the next step, you live and learn.

Good luck.

BTW...

If they only knew how passionately you defended your company while they were in bankruptcy, they may have thought twice about letting you go. Gordon Bethune made the comment a couple years ago (after 9/11) that he had no clue why anyone would want to work in this industry (airline) now, the employees are really expendable and developing a career almost impossible.

If you want a safe job, teach High School Special Education. You will never want for work, but you will never get rich.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUnited777atGU From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11549 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Are you sure you weren't let go because of your behavior and attitude towards customers and supervisors. I do not know the details but I would bet you were not let go because you enforced an FAA carry on rule.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Thread starter):
despite the terrible management from the rotten center of middle management. Bureaucrats who don't know an airplane from their ass-end.

Sounds to like you did not get along with your manager!!! Why are we to assume you know more about airplanes than your manager?

Dude, all I'm going to say is DON'T even go there. Not necessary.

UALPHLCS,

I'm happy it's all over for you. Move on with your life. Drink a beer. No more airline burdens on your shoulders. Congrats.



Speechless
User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1424 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11557 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Thread starter):
UA always a company that says it will back up it's employees over safety and regulations, bowed to the pressure and let me go, but not before I worked the Thanksgiving and Christmas rush. You see I was such a danger to other passengers I wasn't even suspended.

UA doesn't do suspensions for that type of situation. The reason it likely took so long to get the ax, would've been to have your hearing. You gotta blame the union as much as mgmt for the delay there. Plus if the pax filed a complaint afterward, that takes a while to make its way back to the station.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineLuvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 440 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11486 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Sounds to like you did not get along with your manager!!! Why are we to assume you know more about airplanes than your manager?

At some airlines, you can be a flight attendant supervisor without ever having been a flight attendant! Bad or inexperienced management could have been to blame here. After all United wasn't going to pay top dollar for inflight management as they were in bankruptcy!


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7955 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11478 times:

Does this really belong in civ-av? Just when one thought attention whoring couldn't possibly get any worse...perhaps a better thread title would be 'MY United Saga' next time.  Yeah sure

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
I do not know the details but I would bet you were not let go because you enforced an FAA carry on rule.

The fact is we don't know anything other than his side of the story. That doesn't change the fact that this actually has little, if anything to do with United.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11149 times:

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Are you sure you weren't let go because of your behavior and attitude towards customers and supervisors.

I went in to my first hearing with a stack of complimentary letters and management reviews. All deemed irrelevant by the hearing officer (a UA employee) after all if it was my character was on trial, why would I be allowed to show that the character was exemplary.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Sounds to like you did not get along with your manager!!!

I never had a problem with lower management. It's the mid-level pukes who are the do-nothings in the airline. Those wee the folks who made the decisions in this case. It was out of the hands of local management, who just wanted the issue swept away.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 4):
UA doesn't do suspensions for that type of situation.

They sure as hell do. They will suspend someone for all kinds of reasons. I a customer is accusing someone of pushing them then they get suspended pending a hearing. Which didn't happen in my case. Which goes to show that local management didn't think there was any merit to the claim, since they knew me. However, mid-level management in WHQ, decided that it was a fireable offense, without hearing my side but the Union learned with extensive conversations with the customer.

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 4):
The reason it likely took so long to get the ax, would've been to have your hearing. You gotta blame the union as much as mgmt for the delay there. Plus if the pax filed a complaint afterward, that takes a while to make its way back to the station.

This was talked about in my previous threads ont he subject but I'll rehash now for those who missed. The Hearing happened two weeks after the event, just before Thanksgiving. The Hearing officer delivered their "verdict just after the Christmas rush. The timing here was critical.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Does this really belong in civ-av?

Airline/Employee relations have always been covered in this forum.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
That doesn't change the fact that this actually has little, if anything to do with United.

We have disagreed alot you and I. I wonder if your objections has less to do with your opinions on the merit of this thread and more to do with personal objections.

The previous threads on this issue were in Civ/Av, so should the thread about the resolution. The issue involved FAA regulations and UA's failure to back up an employee enforcing them. Example: RE: FAA: Planes Must Be Built To Take An Attack (by Charlienorth Jan 10 2007 in Civil Aviation)
The Airline/employee relationship Ex: Rude AC Ground Staff (by RicardoFG Mar 10 2007 in Civil Aviation)
and the Airline/Union relationship Ex: Delta: Bonuses/Raises For Rank & File This Summer! (by Tugger Mar 8 2007 in Civil Aviation)
and well as the Airline/customer relationship Ex: Why Doesnt CO Always Allow Seat Selection? (by Nycfuturepilot Mar 20 2007 in Civil Aviation)

If Civ-Av isn't the forum for this thread then no thread with those topics belongs in this forum either, which would empty it out right quick wouldn't it.

Take your personal beef with me or whatever it is, somewhere else.


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1424 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11048 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
I a customer is accusing someone of pushing them then they get suspended pending a hearing.

I don't disagree with that, but I stick to my original claim that they don't suspend people because of a "passenger complaint".



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineCharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11048 times:

Congrats...realize two things..most of this site is anti airline employee and most managers are now hired from outside the industry.

User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7955 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11029 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
Airline/Employee relations have always been covered in this forum.

In more general topics, yes, such as the above-referenced. In those threads, a theme is typically established around which members have offered personal anecdotes where applicable.

This thread doesn't have anything to do with United or their general management practices - it's an update on your personal story and a repeat of past treatises as such. You love talking about it on here and that's plain as day but your real motivations are anyone's guess.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3788 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Thread starter):
UA always a company that says it will back up it's employees over safety and regulations,

Shame on you Wink ...for falling for legacy airline-speak by assuming UA actually means what they say.


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10931 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 11):

LOL Yes, you're absolutly right, fool me once...Fool me for six and a half years...shame on me.


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 660 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10931 times:

UALPHLCS,

I'm sorry to hear that things had to go down the way they did but I'm happy you seemed to have made peace with it and are moving on.

I understand how frustrating it is when higher-ups totally removed from a situation overlook an exemplary track record and even the facts based on the word of one individual (a situation I went through in college that eventually led to a professor getting denied tenure because of how I was treated and all sorts of junk). And while you may be the one who got screwed in the end or had to take one for the team or whatever, I honestly believe there is value in taking the high road, remaining true to one's self, and not having regrets about how a situation was handled.

I remember reading the thread and appreciate your efforts to improve the timing and reliability of the PHL-IAD afternoon flight(s) for European connections. Wow, an airline employee trying to put the needs of the customer first? Shocking! As both the son of a United flight attendant and a just-missed-Premier-status United frequent flyer, I see the disconnect between the iniative-of-the-week business mumbo-jumbo the company puts out and the reality of what takes place at airline counters and gates every day and it just burns me up inside.

It's too bad United lost a great employee like you, but you don't need their crap anyway. Best wishes in whatever you choose to do next. We'll see you in the forums!

~UALFAson



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10905 times:

UALPHLCS. ... best of luck to you in future endeavors. I have friends who, despite upper management failures, are excellent, motivated CSRs with United. Like you, they care about their customers, care about their colleagues and have pride in their work. We'll see what the future brings them.

User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8616 times:

This is one of the MANY reasons I am getting out of the travel industry as well. The airline and travel agency business used to be glamorous and that helped somewhat to make up for the lack of pay.

Well not anymore. It isn't glamourous, you never get upgraded to F class, you are just lucky to even get a middle seat these days.

I would MUCH rather be in a more stable industry and make a LOT more money, thereby being able to pay for my airplane seats.............

Been in the industry for about 20 years or more. I'm sick of it...................

Good riddance................

I'll make more money in two weeks than I ever did in a month's salary in the travel industry with my new job.  Smile


User currently offlineMoman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
They sure as hell do. They will suspend someone for all kinds of reasons. I a customer is accusing someone of pushing them then they get suspended pending a hearing. Which didn't happen in my case. Which goes to show that local management didn't think there was any merit to the claim, since they knew me. However, mid-level management in WHQ, decided that it was a fireable offense, without hearing my side but the Union learned with extensive conversations with the customer.

UALPHLCS, sorry to hear about your problems with UAL. I strongly believe the carry on rule should be enforced consistently and stringently, as it regards to bag size, not bag quantity.

You are absolutely right - middle mgmt in any kind of service company sees dollars and cents, nothing else. In a very revenue sensitive industry, I can easily see some bonus-driven manager taking the word of a high revenue customer over the word of an employee who probably makes too much (in his/her eyes). Sounds like you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but thankfully you were protected by a union and you received a settlement for it.

At least you are now free with some coin in the bank to start over in a new career (and maybe industry) where employees are more than mere commodities.



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Quoting Moman (Reply 16):
At least you are now free with some coin in the bank to start over in a new career (and maybe industry) where employees are more than mere commodities.

I what I do now they value my brain. Unlike the airline where creative thinking was at best frowned upon.

The job as a CSR has been reduced to a hamburger flipper level of skill. It's a shame really.


User currently offlineMoman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5667 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
I what I do now they value my brain. Unlike the airline where creative thinking was at best frowned upon.

The job as a CSR has been reduced to a hamburger flipper level of skill. It's a shame really.

Any job that is automated in nature without much discretionary thinking is subject to being a "commodity". The computer job I do is a commodity in the sense of the word that anyone with proper training could do it - I am somewhat insulated by the skill set but as I was explaining to a friend today, I am a highly paid burger flipper.

Middle mgmt is where you go to let your brain rot while making poor decisions, blaming everyone else, and finally quitting and moving onto the next 'victim' company.

/end rant



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineCoewraatysaz From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5598 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 17):
I what I do now they value my brain. Unlike the airline where creative thinking was at best frowned upon.

I really believe that is the United philosophy, and not representative of some of the other legacy carriers (one in particular, which will remain unnamed)



Continental Airlines: Trabajar con empe�?��?�±o, Volar con Pasi�?��?�³n
User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 947 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5183 times:

so you're saying a 1K can get somebody fired? now that's what i call a loyalty program!

i have a beef with united too... i have flown over 40 thousand miles on UA over the last five months, yet i have received no recognition.

why? because 24.9k of those miles were before december 31st.

i hate UA.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 4977 times:

UALPHLCS-Good to hear that you can finally put that behind you.

And if you've forgotten where the airline industry at legacy carriers has gone these days, just look at my signature...



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 4938 times:

Quoting UALPHLCS (Thread starter):
What wonderful managerial decisions they make at UAL.

At the senior level, for the most part, yes. Against all odds, they led the company through Ch. 11 and came out on the other end at a great cost to morale, among other things.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Thread starter):
You all want to know where UA's problems stem from? From it's bloated mid-section, not from its brain-trust or the boots on the ground.

Yep. And it doesn't sound like UA recognized this problem during it's Ch. 11 stay, and if the problems persist, it will come back to bite them in the ass later on, possibly with a much less desirable outcome. You get what you pay for. Pay someone $hit, give them $hit training, then you get $hit in return. Fortunately for UA in this regard, other airlines aren't a whole lot better, so customers will receive the same lower level of service at other carriers, too. Still, it's this perceived inconsistent service quality that hurts UA in the end. The reality is that the marketplace is dictating what prices are paid for fares, and thus wages. Ironically, the same people who demand low fares demand the highest quality service. No, the customer is not always right, in most cases, their complete idiots. But as long as they're the ones who ulitmately sign the paycheck, it's an inconvenient truth.

Quoting Moman (Reply 18):
Middle mgmt is where you go to let your brain rot while making poor decisions, blaming everyone else, and finally quitting and moving onto the next 'victim' company.

Managers who aren't good enough for senior level managers are "left to rust" at the station level. Some are worse than others, as evidenced by UALPHLCS' experiences.


User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

Quoting N174UA (Reply 22):
Middle mgmt is where you go to let your brain rot while making poor decisions, blaming everyone else, and finally quitting and moving onto the next 'victim' company.

And if you take a Bus. Man. class you'll realize how middle man. is largely unneeded nowadays. It's more of a spot left over for the industrial era, so you'll sometimes get people who are similarly "stale."

I'm glad to see you came out well, and thanks for serving the company as well as you did.

-Lucas


User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4368 times:

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 23):
And if you take a Bus. Man. class you'll realize how middle man. is largely unneeded nowadays. It's more of a spot left over for the industrial era, so you'll sometimes get people who are similarly "stale."

I'm glad to see you came out well, and thanks for serving the company as well as you did.

Think you quoted me in error...I didn't make that statement, Moman did.

As for me, I'll be taking a "Management of People" class this summer in Business School, so it will be interesting to see which airline examples they use to point out how NOT to manage people....though NW will likely be "featured" as well.


25 Flybynight : I'm glad you have your name hidden! Be careful what you say and to whom.
26 Jetdeltamsy : This story again? Nobody cares. You got fired because, if your story is true, you represented your company in a way they did not wish to be represente
27 UnitedMSY : Screw Untied....I work for UAX and I refuse to fly them. Hell, I purchase ID-90's on Southwest which are cheaper than UA's "pass travel charges" whene
28 JetsGo : It's people like you who are the crabby, unpleasant employees us customers come to face at the airport. People like you give your airline and entire
29 Tango-Bravo : A better metaphor for middle management at the U.S. legacy airlines would be "useful idiots" who are required to parrot and enforce the agenda of upp
30 Bobnwa : Boy, it likes someone had a disagreement with a manager at their airline.
31 Post contains images Slider : So UALPHLCS, what are you going to change your handle to?
32 CirrusDriver : Perhaps a career (short or long) at United will give you a better understanding of this situation. True, we dont know the ENTIRE situation, but I cer
33 RDUDDJI : This is a free country, if you're that unhappy, get a job somewhere else? Crying does no good. I'm in total agreement there. This is another one of h
34 Post contains images JetsGo : Exactly. Because I hang around at a job I hate for 20 years. KNOWING that I can leave, but choose not to. Right...
35 UALPHLCS : I thought this would come up: I explained the situation in my previous threads on this topic. You'd have to do a search. I will tell you this. UA man
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