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Virgin America To Compete With JetBlue  
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10643 times:

Virgin America to compete with JetBlue

Beth Kassab |
Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted March 21, 2007, 9:57 AM EDT

Just as JetBlue Airways is trying to get back on track after a system-wide meltdown last month comes the news that a major new competitor is approaching.

Full story at: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin....story?coll=orl-business-headlines

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10573 times:

Hard to compete with another airline if you never end up existing....

User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10546 times:

Virgin US of A will have ready made feed from Virgin Atlantic into JFK or EWR and Virgin Blue into LAX or SFO, a nice kick start for them  Smile


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10513 times:

Really not much of an article, is it? Lets first see what routes Virgin America decides to fly out of SFO aside from the transcon to JFK. Does SFO-JFK make any sense as this airline's first route? So much competition, many business flyers with loyalties to a specific airline, etc, etc.....I remember when America West attempted the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons and also recall Delta's poor experience using the Song product on the transcons: the results were anything but good, nothing more than lots and lots of pax paying rock bottom fares. I expected more.

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20677 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10359 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
I remember when America West attempted the JFK-LAX/SFO transcons and also recall Delta's poor experience using the Song product on the transcons: the results were anything but good, nothing more than lots and lots of pax paying rock bottom fares. I expected more.

I always wondered what HP was thinking when they opened those routes. It reminded me of the transcon experiment EA attempted in the early days of deregulation, which was shuttered so quickly, if you blinked you missed it. One thing Virgin America has going for it neither EA or HP had is a certain amount of cachet and sexiness about the name brand. US transcon services are littered with the bodies of failed attempts to compete with the likes of UA, AA and TWA over the years, and only JetBlue and Continental have survived the bloodbaths.

I do question Virgin America's selection of SFO as a base, since it's a UA connection fortress, and I don't know how much money there will be in it for them to carry VS or DJ passengers their last few miles. While it will certainly contribute something, I doubt it will be anything in comparison to what the travel contracts from the financial and entertainment industries provide UA and AA in terms of high-value passengers if their First cabin is limited to 8 seats.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineFMAL From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10346 times:

When is Virgin America expected to start the sale of tickets?

What are the first expected routes?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10287 times:

First they have to agree to comply with the law. They could appeal instead. Depends on if the management agrees to fire themselves for the good of the investment or if they really are in the back pocket of SRB like the DOT suspects.

Until then, B6 doesn't have to worry about VA.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10263 times:

I dont see much competition here except for UA which has major operations out of SFO, and WN.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4267 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10160 times:

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 1):
Hard to compete with another airline if you never end up existing....



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
First they have to agree to comply with the law. They could appeal instead. Depends on if the management agrees to fire themselves for the good of the investment or if they really are in the back pocket of SRB like the DOT suspects.

It's coming! Yes they have to comply with the law but don't think for a minute that VA will remain grounded forever. It's going to happen, it's going to fly. The details have to be worked out and agreed upon, of course, but with as much money as they have sunk into it already, its just a matter of time.

While obviously B6 will have reason to worry about a new competitor, clearly they are not alone. I'd say UA has as much to lose as JetBlue does, if not more (think Business clients)....



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineAviator27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10064 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
I do question Virgin America's selection of SFO as a base,

Virgin America never said SFO was going to be their hub/base. They only said it was going to be their operational hq. This is where they will staff their flight operations personal, training, dispatch, reservations, etc.

Aside from cities listed in their DOT filings and the SFO-JFK run, no one except higher ups at Virgin America know what their route structure is. I can see a strong presense in NY and Orlando area with tie-ups to Virgin Atlantic flights. That is just a guess on my part.

I still think its funny that Fred Reid is getting dumped as part of the concessions they must make.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20677 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10031 times:

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 9):
Virgin America never said SFO was going to be their hub/base. They only said it was going to be their operational hq.

Ah, thanks for the correction. In all of the recent focus on flights from SFO, and speculation about other airlines initiating service on potential routes for Virgin America from SFO as pre-emptive moves, that point had been lost in the bigger picture of things for me.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10006 times:

Quoting FA4B6 (Thread starter):
Just as JetBlue Airways is trying to get back on track after a system-wide meltdown last month comes the news that a major new competitor is approaching.

Kinda funny isn't it....just when the legacy carriers were suffering from their worst meltdown came the news that a new competitor was approaching. Who was that again, some JFK based start up? Oh yeah, B6!

I guess what goes around comes around. Sorry, you'll get no sypathy from me.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10005 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 8):
It's coming! Yes they have to comply with the law but don't think for a minute that VA will remain grounded forever. It's going to happen, it's going to fly. The details have to be worked out and agreed upon, of course, but with as much money as they have sunk into it already, its just a matter of time.

While obviously B6 will have reason to worry about a new competitor, clearly they are not alone. I'd say UA has as much to lose as JetBlue does, if not more (think Business clients)....

i hope to god your wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the US DOT has done something so so dumb.



yep.
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8410 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9819 times:

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 9):
Virgin America never said SFO was going to be their hub/base. They only said it was going to be their operational hq. This is where they will staff their flight operations personal, training, dispatch, reservations, etc.

I could be wrong but I think their HQ's will be both in SanFran and NY. Their primary operating hub will be in SFO, and they say so in their web page too.


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4267 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9787 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 12):
i hope to god your wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the US DOT has done something so so dumb.

I don't know what the final product is going to look like (the airline, not the on-board service), but it is going to fly..... Too many people have sunk too much money in this thing to walk away from it. I was on here in December or January guessing they'd be flying by summer. OK, that ain't happening, but I still think they will be ready to go within six months of obtaining a certificate. That might happen soon.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9748 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 12):
While obviously B6 will have reason to worry about a new competitor, clearly they are not alone. I'd say UA has as much to lose as JetBlue does, if not more (think Business clients)....

i hope to god your wrong but it wouldn't be the first time the US DOT has done something so so dumb.

If you scan all of the DOT filings on this matter, you'll notice there is a significant amount of congressional and local support correspondence for this service. The DOT may have been under intense pressure to approve VA if they could not find a significant, uncorrectable factor.


User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9715 times:

From the Virgin America website:


"Our first route is from San Francisco to New York-round trip, of course. Beyond that, we're thinking initially about cities like Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Denver, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Dallas, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, Atlanta, Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston. Keep coming back for updates about specific routes as we get closer to launch."

It has also been mentioned previously that their first hub will indeed be SFO.


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9635 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
Depends on if the management agrees to fire themselves for the good of the investment or if they really are in the back pocket of SRB like the DOT suspects.

I don’t really get this… They allow foreign companies to control airports but they get picky with airline ownership? What’s the reasoning behind other than protectionism???

The suspicion about Richard Branson hiring this guy is a joke. He could have told somebody else “Go and pick this guy so the DOT doesn’t think I am hiring him myself” and still get away with it.


User currently offlineB6sfinest From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either...

User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9433 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
I could be wrong but I think their HQ's will be both in SanFran and NY. Their primary operating hub will be in SFO, and they say so in their web page too.

That's the impression I was under as well. However, I thought they were focusing corporate HQ in San Francisco.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2080 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9396 times:

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first

There are 3 VA A320s sitting at SFO right now.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 19):
That's the impression I was under as well. However, I thought they were focusing corporate HQ in San Francisco.

Initially, they plannes to have their HQ in NY and operations in California. About one year into their application, they decided to base everything in California.



John@SFO
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9506 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9381 times:

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either

i do agree that the media has been on JetBlue's case a little to much......but they will always have one person(or company)that they will do there best to look them bad.....most of us here know that B6 is a good LCC.



yep.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9374 times:

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I dont think Jetblue has to worry about VA. They have to worry about getting there Airbus's back from Skybus first. I think its the legacies that will have to worry. I think B6's worst enemy is the media. But since most of the media is oblivious and ignorant to reality I dont really think we have to worry about them either...

Huh? Whether JetBlue has to worry about Virgin America or not will depend solely upon which routes Virgin America decides to fly.....in any case, there is now yet another competitor flying in the NYC to SF Bay Area market...so JetBlue does have to think about what Virgin America is doing.

As for the media......for seven years JetBLue loved the media and used the media, JetBLue was the media-darling and was praised for everything they did.....we heard how the legacies should be more like JetBlue, how cities were begging JetBlue to fly to their airports, we heard how JetBlue revolutionized air travel and was a trendy and stylish travel experience. And how could anyone fly for more than 30 minutes without the benefit of Live TV? THEN.....JetBlue seriously screwed up on Valentines Day and serious flaws in their operational methods were exposed due to the terrible weather at JFK that day....it was BIG NEWS....and the media covered it. What did you really expect....the media to give JetBlue a pass and say that it was no big deal that hundreds of pax got stuck on airplanes for many many hours, did you expect the media not to notice and report that JetBlue's entire operation melted down over that weekend and could not recover for days? Seriously, grow up.....JetBlue got some bad media and rightly so, JetBlue's performance that week was nothing short of scary.

Please remember you CANNOT have only good media, the media will notice the good and the bad......tell me, was the media ignorant to reality (your words) just a few months back when all they could do was praise JetBlue?

[Edited 2007-03-22 00:33:40]

User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

Quoting B6sfinest (Reply 18):
I think its the legacies that will have to worry.

All businesses should take notice of a new competitor, especially a well funded one, but Virgin America is aimed squarely at the exact market segment B6 currently serves. The legacies have, for the most part, lost what they're going to lose to B6, and B6 has done a commendable job carving out a niche for itself. But now they are going to have to defend what they've built. Since their hubs are on opposite coasts, at least for awhile, there won't be much overlap, but when they do cross paths, watch out.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 9338 times:

They are going to war with every airline on the SFO, LAX to NYC market, not just B6.

25 JetBluefan1 : Yep. Those loyal to JetBlue probably would not jump ship to another airline that offers a similar product. And don't forget that JetBlue will operate
26 Floridaflyboy : That's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying.
27 Dutchjet : I forgot about that,, 4 extra JetBlue flights in the market (will JetBlue adjust frequency on the JFK-OAK service in any way to compensate?) plus the
28 ERJ170 : So why would VA's biggest competition be B6? I would be thinking it would be UA... SFO is a UA hub. SFO is a B6 spoke.. odd.. But anywyay.. what will
29 Post contains images JetBlueAtJFK : SFO will get quite busy in the next year. I'm predicting between WN and UA they will add service/more frequencies to VA's proposed cities and B6 will
30 Dutchjet : Increased service out of SFO to any city announced by Virgin America, matching or undercutting fares published by VA on these routes, triple frequent
31 FlyInBack : As far as clients go, I still am not sure that VA will necessarily compete entirely with B6. I'm unfamiliar with what IFE options will be available on
32 Dutchjet : Every passenger sitting on a VA airlpane flying between JFK and SFO and return would otherwise have been on CO, UA, DL, AA, B6 flight or on another c
33 Ikramerica : Not exactly. And as I've said about the whole UK LHR thing, just because you make one mistake, doesn't mean you must continue to repeat that mistake
34 COA735 : How many A320's are they expected to have? I wonder if they will grow to a B6 size fleet one day.
35 Style : You'll be eating those words sooner than you think. As for the media, Dutchjet couldn't have put it better. For 7 years the media was your best frien
36 Post contains images WesternA318 : Style, you forget, B6 is the endall for the US carriers! Has anyone else felt like they were being awarded the privilege to fly B6 with regards to so
37 CXfirst : They have ordered 16 A320's and 8 A319's (according to Wikipedia) They have 8 A320's delivered and 2 A319's delivered (according to wikipedia). I exp
38 Flybyguy : Unfortunately, this is true. I feel badly that jetblue had to loose face with it's first hick up in 7 years while other airlines operate as if blunde
39 SpencerII : [quote=JetBluefan1,reply=25]Those loyal to JetBlue probably would not jump ship to another airline that offers a similar product. And don't forget tha
40 Ckfred : The idea is that if the government needs to get extra aviation capacity to move troops and equipment, it's much easier to get a carrier owned by Amer
41 JetBluefan1 : What? JFK-SFO isn't just to stifle a competitor; JetBlue already has such a great name in the Bay Area that SFO was the next logical step. It should
42 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...Burlingame, CA to be exact.. Its actually only a few miles away from SFO... ...while B6 serves OAK well (and the daily red-eye out of SJC), as a B
43 JetBluefan1 : I never said "big". I said "great". While JetBlue doesn't have a huge presence in the Bay Area, its success at OAK should be an indicator of the fact
44 SkyyMaster : Dutchjet, welcome to my RU list. Excellent post. I notice in all this, very little is said of AA. They recently announced a sixth daily 767 on this ro
45 ElmoTheHobo : Uhhh... San Francisco is a very competitive market. Virgin America is in for a hell of a fight. Congress having their heads up their asses. Something
46 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..ok...my bad.... ....for the most part...the fact they only do 2 red-eyes on the transcon (and one day flight during the summer) at SJC, even while
47 JetBluefan1 : LOL no prob...I was just busting your chops. Well keep in mind that SJC isn't as big of a market as OAK (or SFO for that matter). If you look at WN's
48 Halls120 : UA will protect SFO the same way they protected IAD when B6 moved in. I fly IAD-OAK several time a year. The entry of B6 on that route prompted UA to
49 Post contains images BigGSFO : Speaking of such, you can now see the big red "Virgin America" sign on (what I assume to be) their HQ from the 101 freeway. Also there are (count 'em
50 GARUDAROD : The aircraft leased to Skybus are on 3 month leases only. Planned start up is end of June this year. As stated many times previously, intial routes w
51 B6sFinest : Everyone is saying B6 is in trouble if VA lives up to its expectations...What exactly are there expectations as of right now? They better thank there
52 Dutchjet : Arent these the exact transcon routes that America West tried (without success) just a few years ago? Is this really going to work? There must be bet
53 BigGSFO : Yes, VX (even though the cursor says ACES, indeed, it is VX).
54 GARUDAROD : I believe it is their intention to provide feed to/from the VS flights so that should provide a basis for a decent load factor. Instead of filling 150
55 SkyyMaster : Exactly. So that narrows it down to (assuming VX gets off the ground) two carriers. I think B6 would be the first to retreat from SFO as they are alr
56 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...yah..I kind of figured you were taking the piss (Brith humour)... True...but SJC is still has a decent size amount of pax (1/2 the size for WN in
57 Lono : I think that they may be looking at west coast north south traffic.... perhaps horn in on some of the AS niche..???
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