Jamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 588 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11509 times:
No surprise that this press release appeared very swiftly... Nigel Turner recently said that no more than three or four would appear each year, so where do you think that beautiful BD livery is going to touch down stateside from LHR first? And are BD in a position to order any more widebodies?
Quote: bmi praises UK Government’s support of EU-US open skies deal
- landmark decision will bring overwhelming benefits of genuine competition to UK travellers
bmi has praised the UK Government for supporting the draft EU-US open skies agreement in a key vote taken today by Douglas Alexander, Secretary of State for Transport at a meeting of the EU’s 27 Member States’ transport ministers in Brussels. A unanimous vote of support was achieved to take the agreement forward, meaning any EU airline can now serve any US destination from anywhere in the EU.
Nigel Turner, chief executive officer of bmi, said: “We applaud the UK Government for taking the interests of UK plc and the UK travelling public seriously and supporting the open skies agreement. This was a brave move in the face of stiff opposition from the two UK airlines that have for years enjoyed a protected transatlantic market from Heathrow.
“We will now see the long-overdue scrapping of the protectionist Bermuda II agreement that limits the number of airlines permitted to fly between Heathrow and the US to four, which was declared unlawful by the European Court of Justice in 2002. The stranglehold has finally been broken.
“Today is a landmark in the history of air links between Europe and the US and the agreement will be a a prelude to global liberalisation of air transport. Millions of travellers will benefit from additional competition, including lower fares and a greater choice of services. UK travellers alone could save up to £250 million a year, as identified by the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
“This decision is a victory for the travelling public. bmi is now ideally placed to take advantage of this major breakthrough and turn into reality our long held ambition to commence services to the US from our main operational hub at Heathrow. This will have a major impact not only on point-to-point traffic to the US but on the network competition that bmi will be able to provide from our wide range of domestic, European and other longhaul services.”
bmi expects to announce shortly details of its first USA services from Heathrow.
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11468 times:
This Opensky agreement will put pressure on the already empty large aircraft market and push up leasing rates even more...
There is no way that all the airlines who want to benefit from the new legislation will have all the capacity and metal available to launch those flights.757's with winglets will become a precious comodity...
Lite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11402 times:
My theory would be that the airline will juggle two of their existing Airbus A330s; the one A330 which flies from Manchester to the Caribbean and Las Vegas, and the one A330 which flies to Saudi Arabia, instead using these two aircraft to fly trans-Atlantic routes from LHR. The Manchester leisure routes will be easily taken over by the increasingly longhaul-oriented charter airlines, whilst the Saudi routes could potentially be flown each daily, alongside Dammam, with an Airbus A321, using slots from some of their leisure routes which they operate as slot warmers such as the daily ALC or VCE - considering these routes are already well served by the low-cost carriers. bmi will probably also scour the Star Alliance bank of available aircraft and then all other sources for available longhaul Airbus aircraft they can use for longhaul by March 2008. Destinations wise, I'd predict bmi will fly to New York and the Star Alliance hubs in the States. New York - London, one of the busiest longhaul routes in the world, now has no Star Alliance presence following United pulling the route in October, wheras oneworld and Skyteam both have a major presence. With regards to the Star Alliance hubs, UA has been cutting back their London operations over the years, preferring their trans-Pacific operations for the B777s and B747s and probably realising that there's money to be made from selling LHR slots. I'd imagine UA will end up flying twice daily to their American hubs from LHR (and possibly other European hubs), sell any spare slots pocketing a lot of cash, and allowing additional frequencies on their routes to be bolstered by bmi transferring some of their shorthaul slots to longhaul capacity. US Airways will have a tough time getting slots at LHR, so bmi would do well flying to their hubs and codesharing with US.
However it all works out, this is a big year for bmi. The airline will be expanding into trans-Atlantic operations, has bought BMED allowing them to expediate their expansion into the mediumhaul market to the East, and there has been talks of bmi launching routes to Pakistan and re-entering India. If they get it right, it will be a long way from the basket case airline of two years ago.
Lite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11341 times:
Quoting COEI2007 (Reply 5): Exactly!!!! Manchester wont see BD l/h service for dust!!!!!
bmi never wanted to set up a longhaul operation from Manchester, it was always the escape plan if Open Skies didn't happen in 2000, and as it didn't bmi launched their Washington and Chicago routes. Whilst we've lost Washington, Toronto and St Lucia, the airline's Chicago route is supposed to be profitable and competitive, despite established competition from American Airlines. I'd expect the LAS route (isn't LAS a US Airways hub?) to be moved to LHR and the Caribbean routes to be dropped, but for ORD to stay, and BD to codeshare with US' flight to PHL.
I think the American Star hubs are; ORD, IAD, PHL, PIT, CLT, DEN, PHX, LAS, LAX, SFO plus bmi will want to launch a JFK route. Now if you flew both of those routes twice daily (though I don't know if Vegas, Pittsburgh or Charlotte require twice daily service) you'd require 22 pairs of slots but how many aircraft?
JonnyWishbone From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11250 times:
All i'll say is... When you've cocked it up BMI, like you have done everywhere else, don't come back to MAN, cause UA will pick up ORD if they've any sense and VS will take the leisure routes, so best of luck and tatty bye.
Oh and we won't be using you out of LHR because the place is a dump!
Alternatively, you could leave LHR to go into meltdown with everyone else fighting like children and build a proper cohesive plan to hub somewhere else.... Naaaaah, it'll never work!
Lite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11189 times:
Quoting Cornish (Reply 7): There isn't a A330 on Saudi - they lease an Arkefly 767.
At the moment the route is operated by the TUI Boeing 767, but when the aircraft currently leased to virgin nigeria returns, that is apparently planned to operate on the Saudi routes with a larger business class cabin and smaller premium economy cabin.
JonnyWishbone From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11142 times:
Quoting Lite (Reply 10): At the moment the route is operated by the TUI Boeing 767, but when the aircraft currently leased to virgin nigeria returns, that is apparently planned to operate on the Saudi routes with a larger business class cabin and smaller premium economy cabin
Another great BMI idea, thus not allowing cross-fertilisation of the fleet and pissing all your customers off when it goes tech!
CYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10794 times:
I am actually surprised that BMI said will be making an announcement soon as the EU-US deal will not go ahead until Spring 2008. Am I missing something here?
There is plenty of time for BMI and other operators to reach deals with leasing companies for extra long haul planes. This of course can happen provided that the leasing companies have planes in stock or on order.
Bmiexpat From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10763 times:
Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 11): Another great BMI idea, thus not allowing cross-fertilisation of the fleet and pissing all your customers off when it goes tech!
I think you'll find that that is the case already, the Arkefly aircraft is the only one in the fleet in that config, and things seem to be working out OK so far. The Saudi routes are highly successful for bmi, both in terms of premium passengers and cargo.
By returning the A330 to the Saudi routes, bmi will be improving the C class cabin offering even more, with lie flat beds and better on board service...... so it sounds like a very good idea to me.
Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 9): don't come back to MAN, cause UA will pick up ORD if they've any sense
I think UA have more important things to think about that flying ORDMAN, like launching DENLHR. After many years of scaling back their flights to the UK, I don't see them rushing to the UK regions.
Humberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10765 times:
Quoting Cornish (Reply 2): Expect to see MAN-LAS shifted to LHR-LAS at the first opportunity.
With all due respect to LAS, LHR-LAS would surely be lower yielding for bmi than some other US cities and therefore a 'waste' of bmi's very small long haul aircraft fleet. Unless theres some lucrative contract BD have?
Quoting Lite (Reply 6): The Manchester leisure routes will be easily taken over by the increasingly longhaul-oriented charter airlines,
Or VS - dont forget Virgin Holidays take a lot of seats on those routes
Quoting JonnyWishbone (Reply 9): All i'll say is... When you've cocked it up BMI, like you have done everywhere else, don't come back to MAN, cause UA will pick up ORD if they've any sense
Zkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1837 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10743 times:
Weren't BD suppose to pick up 2 A340's from LH? anybody know when this fleet statment will be for 20 aircraft plus 20 options? think the 1st one will be LHR-JFK taking on the route from UA, then followed by LAX , SFO, and BOS. - MAN to Chicago will stay thats about the only longhaul route thats making money. come on BD lets see a big turn around now for your customers.!
Jamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10563 times:
I can't help feeling that LHR-JFK is going to be too cut-throat a route to start off with... knowing Sir MB and bmi they'll probably have a crack at it straight off for the prestige and then realise twelve months down the line that they do not have the frequency or to make it work. Maybe in a couple of years, but I suspect that BD's strongest hand is to start bashing a carefully chosen handful of the Star Alliance American hubs:
United Hubs: ORD, DEN, SFO, LAX, IAD
US Airways Hubs: CLT, PHL, PHX, PIT, LAX
So if anyone is working late in Donnington tonight, in 'year one' I'm looking forward to seeing:
I really can't imagine BD being serious about of any these without a few more A330 (heck, why not an A380, Airbus might do a deal do get some good press after a bad few months and that's one livery she'd look sweet in). So assuming that new a/c are on the way, I'd hope that some longhaul presence at Manchester is maintained. MAN-ORD and MAN-LAX are reaching maturity and doing well, although admittedly that's usually when BD pull the plug on anything.
Pick up a copy of the bmi in flight magazine and you'll find that the route maps at the back are a bit of a mess. Painfully few European routes and a confusing mish-mash of codeshare routes masking BD's weaknesses. With the acquisition of BMED (very important: note that subject to approval, BA wants to be codesharing on all of these for the foreseeable future) and a couple of key LHR transatlantic routes on the way, BD has suddenly turned a corner...
...we just have to wait and see if they **** it up again
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34355 posts, RR: 70
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10323 times:
When they first wanted to fly LHR-USA, they wanted Seattle, Denver, Miami, and Chicago, IIRC.
I think we will see Washington, Chicago, and maybe Miami and Las Vegas (replacing MAN) at launch. West coast requires to much aircraft utilization and doesn't provide as strong yields. LHR-LAX is also very well served, as is LON-NYC, which is why I don't think we will see them at first. I can realisticly see bmi flying to 10-12 US cities within 4-5 years.
: Hope to see LHR to BDA, then i can see my sister ..
: About time El Paso had a daily non-stop link to London, preferably Heathrow. However, one issue bugs me: would the 330 be sufficiently large?
: UA does not quite have the terrible widebody shortage some of the other major US airlines do, UA still has more widebody capacity it can juice out of
: LHR-PHL, LHR-LAS is my bet. If they want to compete with BA and VS, go for MCO from LHR. MCOflyer
: We'd love to see them along with VS down here at IAH--however, don't expect COs application to fail and BA will throw a 744 to LHR as soon as possibl
: First let BMI find any available A330 it can gets its hands on, there aren't many around to be had. May be Virgin Atlantic with its spare A343's could
: BA has a hard enough time competing with VS. I doubt bmi wants to join in on that.
: $10 on BOS................ Cheers, Justin
: Come on IAH-MAN!!!! IAH could use a 2nd nonstop to the UK.
: I'd have thought with Lufthansa owning 30% of bmi, they would be keen to use the relatively strong bmi brand to make the best of longhaul expansion ou
: I thought BA's service to IAH was via ORD not DTW? Is there enough slots for CO to even begin operating to LHR? Maybe with the new T5 opening, but I
: Originally the flight was LHR-IAD-IAH with 744, then it went LHR-ORD-IAH with 777, now its LHR-DTW-IAH with 763. They'll probably buy some from other
: T5 opens at the end of March next year, and will only provide more aircraft parking stands and terminal space, it will not provide additional slots,
: First Choice Airways are already FAR better than BA/BD/VS etc on long haul routes. As are MyTravel, Monarch, Thomas Cook etc. Who gives a toss about B
: I was going to start a thread about this, but somebody beat me to it... Why would they go into BA strongholds? BA would eat BMI's hide on LHR-JFK... m
: We flew BMI IAD-MAN on the A330 and then for a time they had an Icelandic 757 leased on the route before they dropped it all together. I can't see the
: Anyone know if ACAA will visit BMI???