Osiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3182 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8219 times:
Ouchy...
That doesn't look so good at first glance.. We seem to be having quite the year for running aircraft off the end of runways and smacking them onto the deck as hard as possible...
Maybe Airbus and Boeing should start putting airbags on the undercarriage....
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8204 times:
this is what pisses me off....istanbul ATC knows damn well that landing the short runway during unstable winds and wet wether ALWAYS causes this, and they STILL do this....and when you request the longer runway tey delay you for about 25 mins, it's bs....that poor A300 is now scrap because of this
runway 06/24 has a very very very slick surface, it's about 85% covered in full with tyre marks, and we all know the worst case for hydroplaning is a smooth runway with dirt on it....and add some water...voila....
so it's no shock to me....
it's a shame really...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4108 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8168 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 7): runway 06/24 has a very very very slick surface, it's about 85% covered in full with tyre marks, and we all know the worst case for hydroplaning is a smooth runway with dirt on it....and add some water...voila....
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8142 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 8): Here is a picture of the runway
yes and that's the best it ever got, now it's WAY worse.....add some water and put on your ice skates, the 737 dances on there like a feather, it's amazing trying to hold it steady during a wet takeoff...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Beaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 26 Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8142 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 5): Delta 767 Over Rans The Runway At IST (by Wing Apr 23 2005 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Kuban Airlines Overran In IST (by Spetouss Jun 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Iran Air Overshoots Runway In Istanbul (by Wing Mar 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Onur 321 Goes Off Runway 24 In IST (by Pilotaydin Feb 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)
Here we go again, the infamous 06/24 overrun saga continues...
They should put a large "Nazar Boncuk" (Turkish Evil Eye " talisman ) at the end of the runway..
Joke apart -I agree that the frequency of IST runway incidents is a clear indiccation the surface needs to be re-furbished immediately.May be there are techniques that do allow to brush-off the tire-residues off the runway-asphalt during night ,in order to prevent a complete closure for too many weeks.
RIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 773 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 7923 times:
Why did it come to rest in a nose-up position? If it was braking, that would tend to put pressure on the front landing gear, which then would have dug into the ground. I just thought I'd ask.
Thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7801 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 7): this is what pisses me off....istanbul ATC knows damn well that landing the short runway during unstable winds and wet wether ALWAYS causes this, and they STILL do this....and when you request the longer runway tey delay you for about 25 mins, it's bs....that poor A300 is now scrap because of this
If the winds favour runway 06, then runway 06 is the active. ATC is not to blame, because they HAVE to choose the active runway according to the winds at the airport, REGARDLESS of runway lenght. This is furthermore important if the winds were gusting at the time. With a gusting headwind, 7500ft or rwy is more than enough even for a B744 to land on. Takeoff is another issue, but as this incident involves a landing aircraft, runway length was not to blame, poor runway conditions (i.e wet or slick runway) and/or pilot error could be a factor.
Thenoflyzone
[Edited 2007-03-23 22:37:44]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7617 times:
Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 18): If the winds favour runway 06, then runway 06 is the active. ATC is not to blame, because they HAVE to choose the active runway according to the winds at the airport, REGARDLESS of runway lenght. This is furthermore important if the winds were gusting at the time. With a gusting headwind, 7500ft or rwy is more than enough even for a B744 to land on. Takeoff is another issue, but as this incident involves a landing aircraft, runway length was not to blame, poor runway conditions (i.e wet or slick runway) and/or pilot error could be a factor.
if the wind favors runway 24, the wind would be right down at 240, which is 60 degrees off runway 18....
would you rather land in gusts with a direct headwind on a slick, short wet runway
or on a long, properly paved runway with some crosswind? it's a no brainer...
and i never blamed the RUNWAY itself, i said runway condition, in fact someone posted a pic of the condition i was talking about...
wet and short runway shouldnt be used together...poor choice by atc at IST once again...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
Thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7534 times:
Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 20): would you rather land in gusts with a direct headwind on a slick, short wet runway
Most pilots would take the runway most aligned with the winds, since crosswinds are far more dangerous than wet runways. (not to mention that rwy 18 in IST would be wet as well)
You're wrong. ATC has no choice in the matter. The pilot, on the other hand, does. If runway 06 was not good enough for the pilot, he should have asked to land on the other runway. Period! ATC would have accomodated him, with little or no delay.
When it comes down to it, Pilot In Command has last word.
Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
Emrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 914 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6792 times:
Thenoflyzone:
I don't understand why you are trying to disagree with Pilotaydin. He is flying for TK and I am sure he has landed hundreds of time to IST. So what he says is correct.
I don't understand why you are trying to disagree with Pilotaydin. He is flying for TK and I am sure he has landed hundreds of time to IST. So what he says is correct.
Have to agree!!! If anyone knows anything its Pilotaydin , he knows more than anyone on here.
25 LTAC03R: Gusting headwind can mean an addition of up to 20 kts on the approach speed, and that translates into a longer float during the flare and/or a longer
26 Pilotaydin: good point, BUT, we are talking specifically about runway 06/24 in istanbul. This runway is covered in tyre tracks, reference up there the pic that T
27 Beaucaire: The remarks of Pilotaydin have been confirmed individually on a french airline forum by a French pilot flying 737 for a German airline. They have spec
28 Pilotaydin: Beaucaire, i have the same pic i took from the right seat, i think that was left by a Yak42 im not sure, but those marks go off into the grass for abo
29 Bennett123: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000212-1&lang=en My understanding is that this Air Afrique aircraft was scrapped, which is not a g
31 NA: If it were 10 years old, they would repair it, but this one is 25 years old. 99% its a write-off. Look at the Air Afrique aircraft above with similar
32 Burnsie28: I don't think this a huge loss for Ariana since they are getting their boeing fleet here soon.
33 Thenoflyzone: Since when does a headwind add speed on the approach !!! The planes will be at a very slow approach speed during strong headwinds! I'm not disagreein
34 Thenoflyzone: Let me try to understand your reasoning here. So anyone who lands 100 times at an airport is automatically correct. Very nice analysis! I'd like to g
35 Pilotaydin: yes i was pissed off, BECAUSE Turkey is not like Canada, we don't have an airport structure as you do, when the guy in the tower looks at the wind so
36 N774UA: Perhaps a silly question, but why don't they clean it so now and then? Here at AMS all the runways are cleaned from rubber at least once a year. Regar
37 Pilotaydin: a simple and excellent question...i think the answer is that no matter how much they clean it (which they dont) the runway quality and materials used
38 N774UA: As a marshaller at AMS I can only say; thank you. N774UA
39 Thenoflyzone: See. Airport operator. It's the airport's job to maintain and clean the runways, if they dont, it can be a contributing factor to accidents. Thenofly
40 TK787: http://video.milliyet.com.tr/default...24&tarih=2007/03/24&get=24.03.2007 Here some video of the aircrafts resting position from the air, just click o
41 Thenoflyzone: Pilotaydin, Question for you, since your a TK B734 pilot, slightly off topic. Ok, really off topic. In your ops specs, can you hand fly a CATII approa
42 Stylo777: thx for that video. it gives some different views to this accident. did they already towed the aircraft to a remote stand or is it still laying down
43 TK787: http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=14297 Here is some pictures on the latest. They started to cut the plane into pieces in order to move it a
45 NA: Wow, these guys obviously have never heard about proper safety measures. Can´t see that they did anything to prevent the tail turning sidewards, fall
46 Pilotaydin: hehe, trust me, with the lack of training and equipment here, they make miracles happen, these guys have done FAR worse and crazy things, to them thi
47 BlueShamu330s: Two sides and opinions being put in this thread, and some less informed people taking sides unecessarily. Having worked both sides of the fence, ie.,
48 Thenoflyzone: Well said BlueShamu330s As i mentioned above.... As i mentioned above.... Again, as i mentioned above....Pilot in Command decides. ATC gives him all t
49 Chuchoteur: Formally registered VT-EHN, MSN 177. Was "C" Checked at Basco in Bournemouth (UK) prior to being donated to Ariana. Worked on it back then, it wasn't
50 Bennett123: http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1193512&size=L This looks like the end.
51 MD11Engineer: There exists truck mounted equipment, which cleans the rubber deposits off the runway using high pressure water. The slugde will then be removed using
52 TymnBalewne: Where's the tail? Is the aircraft being scrapped already? C.
53 Nbseer: Check out 36R from google earth: it's just as bad as 06/24. Lots of black rubber on the surface.
54 Viasa: Please look to the Youtube video of AirportHaber, than you have the answer...
55 TymnBalewne: Oh my. Did it just fall off or was it cut off? I can't quite tell.
56 Olympic707: Question, before scrapping an aircraft, don't they have to drain the fuel, oils, fluids? How about the lavatory, it has that blue fluid in the holdin
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