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Ariana In Landing Accident At Istanbul 23/03/07  
User currently offlineAviamil From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 18 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10095 times:

Hi,

Can any of our Turkish (Istanbul) based members find out anymore, It happened an hour or so ago.

Only one report has appeared on the net stating that the aircraft skidded and has ended up resting on one wing-tip.

Thanks
Marc

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 940 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10075 times:

The Afghan plane skidded off the runway after the landing on 06. No major injuries.
You can see a picture on www.airporthaber.com


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Considerable damage. Seems like this one isn´t flying again due to its age (25 years).

Two photographs here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...300-skids-off-istanbul-runway.html


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8549 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9940 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

would this have been one of the ex-AI a/c donated by the Indian Government ?


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10679 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
would this have been one of the ex-AI a/c donated by the Indian Government ?

This is a former Air India aircraft delivered in 1982. Such an aircraft is worth close to zero, if intact.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 9904 times:

Delta 767 Over Rans The Runway At IST (by Wing Apr 23 2005 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Kuban Airlines Overran In IST (by Spetouss Jun 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Iran Air Overshoots Runway In Istanbul (by Wing Mar 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Onur 321 Goes Off Runway 24 In IST (by Pilotaydin Feb 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Here we go again, the infamous 06/24 overrun saga continues...


User currently offlineOsiris30 From Barbados, joined Sep 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Ouchy...

That doesn't look so good at first glance.. We seem to be having quite the year for running aircraft off the end of runways and smacking them onto the deck as hard as possible...

Maybe Airbus and Boeing should start putting airbags on the undercarriage....



I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9624 times:

this is what pisses me off....istanbul ATC knows damn well that landing the short runway during unstable winds and wet wether ALWAYS causes this, and they STILL do this....and when you request the longer runway tey delay you for about 25 mins, it's bs....that poor A300 is now scrap because of this

runway 06/24 has a very very very slick surface, it's about 85% covered in full with tyre marks, and we all know the worst case for hydroplaning is a smooth runway with dirt on it....and add some water...voila....

so it's no shock to me....

it's a shame really...



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9588 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 7):
runway 06/24 has a very very very slick surface, it's about 85% covered in full with tyre marks, and we all know the worst case for hydroplaning is a smooth runway with dirt on it....and add some water...voila....

Here is a picture of the runway:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Irfan Caliskan - AirTeamImages



User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9566 times:

This is aircraft involved in this incident : A300 B4-203 YA-BAD


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mario Andreya



This aircraft was initially delivered to Air India on July 28th 1982 !
It was transferred to Airiana on November 11th 2002.

Very sad to see another venerable good old A300 ending that way ...  cry 


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9562 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 8):
Here is a picture of the runway

yes and that's the best it ever got, now it's WAY worse.....add some water and put on your ice skates, the 737 dances on there like a feather, it's amazing trying to hold it steady during a wet takeoff...



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9562 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 5):
Delta 767 Over Rans The Runway At IST (by Wing Apr 23 2005 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Kuban Airlines Overran In IST (by Spetouss Jun 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Iran Air Overshoots Runway In Istanbul (by Wing Mar 14 2006 in Civil Aviation)
RE: Onur 321 Goes Off Runway 24 In IST (by Pilotaydin Feb 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Here we go again, the infamous 06/24 overrun saga continues...

They should put a large "Nazar Boncuk" (Turkish Evil Eye " talisman ) at the end of the runway..

Joke apart -I agree that the frequency of IST runway incidents is a clear indiccation the surface needs to be re-furbished immediately.May be there are techniques that do allow to brush-off the tire-residues off the runway-asphalt during night ,in order to prevent a complete closure for too many weeks.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9524 times:

More photos of the accident site at the below link, though they are a bit overexposed:
http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=14263


User currently offlineFiriko From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9520 times:

How come they had 25 passanger and 35 crew members ? Does Ariana use the term loosly or are they crazy ?

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4422 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9484 times:

Quoting Firiko (Reply 13):
How come they had 25 passanger and 35 crew members

The article says 30pax, 20 crew. Also, they stopped at ESB earlier.


User currently offlineFiriko From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9421 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 14):
20 crew

isn't that alot?


User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9343 times:

Why did it come to rest in a nose-up position? If it was braking, that would tend to put pressure on the front landing gear, which then would have dug into the ground. I just thought I'd ask.

User currently offlineBritannia191A From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9331 times:

"Ariana operates flight FG719 from Kabul via Ankara. Istanbul Airport’s on-line schedule shows that this flight arrived at around 13:50."

Well it certainly did arrive but not in the style they expected


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2417 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9221 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 7):
this is what pisses me off....istanbul ATC knows damn well that landing the short runway during unstable winds and wet wether ALWAYS causes this, and they STILL do this....and when you request the longer runway tey delay you for about 25 mins, it's bs....that poor A300 is now scrap because of this

If the winds favour runway 06, then runway 06 is the active. ATC is not to blame, because they HAVE to choose the active runway according to the winds at the airport, REGARDLESS of runway lenght. This is furthermore important if the winds were gusting at the time. With a gusting headwind, 7500ft or rwy is more than enough even for a B744 to land on. Takeoff is another issue, but as this incident involves a landing aircraft, runway length was not to blame, poor runway conditions (i.e wet or slick runway) and/or pilot error could be a factor.


Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2007-03-23 22:37:44]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26912 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9138 times:

Is the AC no written off??? Can it not be fixed??? It actually doesnt look that bad unless there is damage we cant see.

User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9037 times:

Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 18):
If the winds favour runway 06, then runway 06 is the active. ATC is not to blame, because they HAVE to choose the active runway according to the winds at the airport, REGARDLESS of runway lenght. This is furthermore important if the winds were gusting at the time. With a gusting headwind, 7500ft or rwy is more than enough even for a B744 to land on. Takeoff is another issue, but as this incident involves a landing aircraft, runway length was not to blame, poor runway conditions (i.e wet or slick runway) and/or pilot error could be a factor.

if the wind favors runway 24, the wind would be right down at 240, which is 60 degrees off runway 18....
would you rather land in gusts with a direct headwind on a slick, short wet runway

or on a long, properly paved runway with some crosswind? it's a no brainer...

and i never blamed the RUNWAY itself, i said runway condition, in fact someone posted a pic of the condition i was talking about...
wet and short runway shouldnt be used together...poor choice by atc at IST once again...



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2417 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8954 times:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 20):
would you rather land in gusts with a direct headwind on a slick, short wet runway

Most pilots would take the runway most aligned with the winds, since crosswinds are far more dangerous than wet runways. (not to mention that rwy 18 in IST would be wet as well)

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 20):
poor choice by atc at IST once again

You're wrong. ATC has no choice in the matter. The pilot, on the other hand, does. If runway 06 was not good enough for the pilot, he should have asked to land on the other runway. Period! ATC would have accomodated him, with little or no delay.

When it comes down to it, Pilot In Command has last word.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineEmrecan From Turkey, joined Feb 2000, 940 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8212 times:

Thenoflyzone:

I don't understand why you are trying to disagree with Pilotaydin. He is flying for TK and I am sure he has landed hundreds of time to IST. So what he says is correct.


User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8125 times:

I didn't know Afghana flew to IST. Maybe an opium ferry flight? ...hence the effect!

I'm glad nobody was hurt too badly. Thank goodness.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26912 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

Quoting Emrecan (Reply 22):
Thenoflyzone:

I don't understand why you are trying to disagree with Pilotaydin. He is flying for TK and I am sure he has landed hundreds of time to IST. So what he says is correct.

Have to agree!!! If anyone knows anything its Pilotaydin , he knows more than anyone on here.


25 LTAC03R : Gusting headwind can mean an addition of up to 20 kts on the approach speed, and that translates into a longer float during the flare and/or a longer
26 Post contains images Pilotaydin : good point, BUT, we are talking specifically about runway 06/24 in istanbul. This runway is covered in tyre tracks, reference up there the pic that T
27 Post contains images Beaucaire : The remarks of Pilotaydin have been confirmed individually on a french airline forum by a French pilot flying 737 for a German airline. They have spec
28 Pilotaydin : Beaucaire, i have the same pic i took from the right seat, i think that was left by a Yak42 im not sure, but those marks go off into the grass for abo
29 Post contains links Bennett123 : http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000212-1&lang=en My understanding is that this Air Afrique aircraft was scrapped, which is not a g
30 ADiZzy : Why are the "black listed by EU?
31 NA : If it were 10 years old, they would repair it, but this one is 25 years old. 99% its a write-off. Look at the Air Afrique aircraft above with similar
32 Burnsie28 : I don't think this a huge loss for Ariana since they are getting their boeing fleet here soon.
33 Thenoflyzone : Since when does a headwind add speed on the approach !!! The planes will be at a very slow approach speed during strong headwinds! I'm not disagreein
34 Thenoflyzone : Let me try to understand your reasoning here. So anyone who lands 100 times at an airport is automatically correct. Very nice analysis! I'd like to g
35 Pilotaydin : yes i was pissed off, BECAUSE Turkey is not like Canada, we don't have an airport structure as you do, when the guy in the tower looks at the wind so
36 N774UA : Perhaps a silly question, but why don't they clean it so now and then? Here at AMS all the runways are cleaned from rubber at least once a year. Regar
37 Post contains images Pilotaydin : a simple and excellent question...i think the answer is that no matter how much they clean it (which they dont) the runway quality and materials used
38 Post contains images N774UA : As a marshaller at AMS I can only say; thank you. N774UA
39 Thenoflyzone : See. Airport operator. It's the airport's job to maintain and clean the runways, if they dont, it can be a contributing factor to accidents. Thenofly
40 Post contains links TK787 : http://video.milliyet.com.tr/default...24&tarih=2007/03/24&get=24.03.2007 Here some video of the aircrafts resting position from the air, just click o
41 Thenoflyzone : Pilotaydin, Question for you, since your a TK B734 pilot, slightly off topic. Ok, really off topic. In your ops specs, can you hand fly a CATII approa
42 Stylo777 : thx for that video. it gives some different views to this accident. did they already towed the aircraft to a remote stand or is it still laying down
43 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.airporthaber.com/hb/detay.php?id=14297 Here is some pictures on the latest. They started to cut the plane into pieces in order to move it a
44 Stylo777 : here is the video of this cut-down
45 NA : Wow, these guys obviously have never heard about proper safety measures. Can´t see that they did anything to prevent the tail turning sidewards, fall
46 Post contains images Pilotaydin : hehe, trust me, with the lack of training and equipment here, they make miracles happen, these guys have done FAR worse and crazy things, to them thi
47 BlueShamu330s : Two sides and opinions being put in this thread, and some less informed people taking sides unecessarily. Having worked both sides of the fence, ie.,
48 Thenoflyzone : Well said BlueShamu330s As i mentioned above.... As i mentioned above.... Again, as i mentioned above....Pilot in Command decides. ATC gives him all t
49 Chuchoteur : Formally registered VT-EHN, MSN 177. Was "C" Checked at Basco in Bournemouth (UK) prior to being donated to Ariana. Worked on it back then, it wasn't
50 Post contains links Bennett123 : http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1193512&size=L This looks like the end.
51 MD11Engineer : There exists truck mounted equipment, which cleans the rubber deposits off the runway using high pressure water. The slugde will then be removed using
52 TymnBalewne : Where's the tail? Is the aircraft being scrapped already? C.
53 Nbseer : Check out 36R from google earth: it's just as bad as 06/24. Lots of black rubber on the surface.
54 Viasa : Please look to the Youtube video of AirportHaber, than you have the answer...
55 TymnBalewne : Oh my. Did it just fall off or was it cut off? I can't quite tell.
56 Post contains images Olympic707 : Question, before scrapping an aircraft, don't they have to drain the fuel, oils, fluids? How about the lavatory, it has that blue fluid in the holdin
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