Bluemeatball From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5744 times:
In Aug of 1970 I flew on a PA 720 flight 502 which was a Saturday only frequency that originated at VCP then GIG, BSB, PTY, GUA, MEX, and finally IAH. You had the option of changing at PTY to fly on to LAX and SFO.
PA also flew MEX-TPA-MIA during the 70s before deregulation and during the 60s there was also a Merida-MSY flight.
Cody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1948 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5716 times:
Eastern's JFK-MEX-ACA route later became a 757 before being dropped entirely. I think the route went to Continental for a while during the Texas Air deal. I believe Continental even flew Eastern Mexico routes from ATL as well.
For a brief spell, Eastern flew to Merida from TPA.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 17315 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5697 times:
One interesting thing about Merida, Eastern during the '80s and up until they closed shop in '91 had this Brown wall paper around their gate areas and behind some ticket counters which listed where they flew. I remember reading Merida all the time and knowing that at that moment they were not flying to Merida.
Juventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5686 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 16): One interesting thing about Merida, Eastern during the '80s and up until they closed shop in '91 had this Brown wall paper around their gate areas and behind some ticket counters which listed where they flew. I remember reading Merida all the time and knowing that at that moment they were not flying to Merida.
Looks like back in the day, Merida and Acapulco had more service than Cabo and Puerto Vallarta...
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5650 times:
PanAm once had a sizeable domestic operation within Mexico, operated by not one (1), but two (2) of its many world-wide subsidiaries.
One airline was owned at 100% outright, the other a 40% interest was maintained.
First. Owned completely by PanAm was CMA (Compania Mexicana de Aviacion) or later; Mexicana, sold to Mexican interests in 1968.
CMA flew most of the major routes of the time, I will list just a few of the bigger ones.
Los Angeles-Mexicali-Hermosillo-Mazatlan-Durango-Leon-Mexico City
Nogales-Hermosillo-Ciudad Obregon-Los Mochis-Culican-Mazatlan
Brownsville-Tampico-Tuxpan-Veracruz-San Jeronimo-Tapachula-Guatemala City
Miami-Havana-Cozumel-Merida-Belize-Puerto Barrios-Guatemala City
The other airline PanAm had involvement with was Aeronaves de Mexico which came along in the 30's.
"La Tripa", (as Juan Trippe was known in Mexico quite derogatorially) bought 40% in 1940, after he could not help but notice the overwhelming success of their singular route; Acapulco-Mexico City.
At the time, Acapulco was a sleepy little seaside town, with some awe-inspiring beaches....
The government of President Aleman, not liking La Tripa's airline influence in his country, forced a merger between Aeronaves de Mexico and 2 other smaller airlines in the 50s, squeezing out the American to produce a true competitor to the wholy-owned CMA, which was eventually sold off in bits and pieces, being finally gone by the late 60's. (One of those airlines Aeronaves de Mexico merged with was LAMSA, which could trace it's history back to United Airlines...a partnership which never worked because United could never gain the domestic route authority in the US to link up the two airlines as PanAm had done in Miami, Los Angeles, and Houston)
As a side note, PanAm has had a hand in many airlines of the world; it's interest ranging from 30% to 100%, no corner of the globe untouched: Ariana Afghan, Panair do Brasil, LACSA (Costa Rica), LANICA (Nicaragua), SAHSA (Honduras), COPA (Panama), AVENSA (Venezuela), Aeronaves de Mexico, Cubana, SCADTA (later to become AVIANCA), Peruvian Airways, West Indian (Dom. Rep.), AVIATECA (Guatemala), MEA (Lebanon), Philippine Airlines, CNAC (China National Air Corp/CAAC/Air China), Pacific Alaska, Alaska Southern, Bahamas Airways (Sold to BSAA, British South American Airways-BOAC), Chilean Airways
PanAm's own routes to Mexico began with a flight from Brownsville, TX to Mexico City, that continued on for points south; Guatemala City, Panama City, Cali, Guayaquil, Lima, Antofagasto, Santiago, Cordoba, and finally Buenos Aires.
The other route to Mexico City began in Miami, stopping in Havana and Merida along the way.
By the 1970s, PanAm was operating daily 707 nonstops to Houston, Tampa, and Guatemala City. By the 80's, Houston was double daily, the 707 replaced by the 727 and the added 747 which continued on for JFK.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 9): I think Eastern also flew Texas to Mexico City, either IAH, Corpus Christi or San Antonio.
I cannot find any record of that....Eastern began service to Mexico from New Orleans.
The airlines that flew from Texas to Mexico were originally American, Braniff, and Texas International.
One of the very first routes Braniff utilized their newly arrived (and special-ordered*) 707s on was ORD-DAL-SAT-MEX...and sometimes ACA.
Later, nonstops were added to both MEX and ACA from DAL (DFW)
American had a similar history.
Texas International's Mexico service was initially from the Rio Grande Valley, to Veracruz and Tampico, but not to Mexico City, that came later.
Continental's FIRST try at the Mexico market was actually not from Houston, but rather El Paso....when they couldn't make the routes work, Frontier gave it shot...which were two-stop flights from their Denver hub, the other stop being Albuquerque.
*Boeing built a special version of the 707, as they did for QANTAS with the more famous -138.
The -220 was extermally identical to the -120 except for the engines...instead of the standard-issue JT3C, the -220 had the much more powerful JT4A-3...which was also used in such military aircraft as the Republic F-105, Convair F-106, and Lockheed U-2.
The 707-220, of which only 5 were built, (all for Braniff) had an increase in thrust from the original 13,500lbs, to 15,800lbs. (Of course, the -220 became redundant when the -120B came out...which had 17,000lbs of thrust per engine....but Braniff needed a hot rod, and they needed it yesterday!) The -220s did not last long in the Braniff fleet, the long-haul duties being taken over by the DC-8.
The -220's MTOW was 10,000lbs less than the -120, from 128.5 tons to 123.5 tons.
But, Max Range was the same, but Initial Rate of Climb doubled, and the runway needed for takeoff was reduced from about 10,000 feet to around 8,000ft, or around 20% (Hard for an absolute answer on that because of altitude.....but they needed every inch at MEX)
PA resumed MEX-TPA after their merger with NA, flying DC10's on the route, then I think down to 727 before dropping it. They did not operate this in Spring/Summer 1980, I think they picked it up for a while later, but it didn't last long.
My hazy memory is that this only existed during the brief intervening time between PA flying it with 707's in the 70's and again after swallowing up NA in the 80's -- something about PA having permanent rights that EA could only use if PA declined to use them?
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5564 times:
Quoting XA744 (Reply 8): P.S. Pan Am never flew to Guadalajara.
I believe they did (or it was in conjunction with one of the partners Stirling described above). I've an old hand-typed itinerary from a trip one of my great aunt and uncles took to Mexico that had some Pan Am flights on it. I'll have to look it up. In the meantime, Pan Am in the Americas circa 1940:
Jimbo83 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5556 times:
I think Pan Am flew SAT-MEX in the late 80's or very early 90's before they went out of business. I remember seeing a Pan Am 727 at the customs gate in SAT many times and I always assumed it was a MEX flight. I could be wrong though.
: I'm fairly certain that the PA 72S you saw was operating the scheduled SAT-MSY-JFK service (which directly competed with TW...same routing, same airc
: [quote=STT757,reply=9]Pan Am was the dominant carrier to Central America, as there was no Mexicana yet, and Aviateca, TACA and Lacsa ops were limited
: I just did some research and Eastern did, in fact, fly nonstop from SAT to MEX throughout the mid 1980's. Also, it appears the JFK-MEX/ACA route ended
: I show PA fairly consistent on the run before, during and after the merger. First with the 707, then 727. The 707 Bible I have by Stewart Wilson show
: Juventus, That is not a typo. As far as I can remember (I myself flew the route with my parents in July 1967), Pan American flew a 2-weekly (among ot
: SAT operations for EA and PA EA did have a SAT-MEX flight. Then CO took over the route. PA did fly SAT. Not to MEX. They gave SAT-MSY-JFK a try. Brani
: Thanx for the info Civilav ( se agradece)
: Quoting Cody (Reply 27): I just did some research and Eastern did, in fact, fly nonstop from SAT to MEX throughout the mid 1980's. You are absolutely
: Well it went back farther than that...I can trace it back to the 60's, on a DC-7, then 707. San Antonion for a time was the only Mexico gateway Brani