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United Considering Launching DEN-LHR  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6740 times:

United could add flights to London

By Chris Walsh, Rocky Mountain News
March 23, 2007


United Airlines will reconsider the possibility of adding flights between Denver and London in light of a new agreement that partly liberalizes trans-Atlantic travel.

The agreement, approved Thursday by the European Union, relaxes most restrictions on service between the U.S. and Europe. United expressed some interest two years ago in flights from Denver to London's Heathrow Airport but said its hands were tied by those restrictions.

Now, though, "the regulatory barriers to Denver-Heathrow service have been removed," said Michael Whitaker, United's senior vice president of alliances, international and regulatory affairs. "For competitive reasons we're very careful not to discuss new routes . . . but we're certainly going to look at new opportunities" in Denver and elsewhere.



The rest of the article can be read here:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_5436453,00.html

I really do hope that United launches DEN-LHR as British Airways' daily filght is always full and has become very expensive.

UA launching DEN-LHR would help depress fares to a more reasonable level, not to mention add much needed capacity.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3767 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6733 times:

Quoting BA (Thread starter):
I really do hope that United launches DEN-LHR as British Airways' daily filght is always full and has become very expensive.

I agree!

DEN-LON has been strongly rumoured for some time now; although the Bermuda II ruling has prevented it from being a stronger possibility. Now that LHR may be open for the flight; UA may begin.

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2915 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6721 times:

DEN-LHR would be an excellent addition to UA's growing international network.

User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6713 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
DEN-LON has been strongly rumored for some time now

it was actually announced as part of the US merger...but it was to LGW.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6669 times:

Funny, in the past when this has been brought up, I seem to recall the vast majority of the reaction here being negative to this idea, due to the makeup of the DEN hub for UA. I'd like to see it, since it could collect a lot of flyers from smaller airports in the west. My favorite London flight in the past was CO's 34/35 from the old Stapleton to Gatwick. Even in the days when CO had a downright horrid reputation, they did a quality product with that flight, and it was nearly always full.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6623 times:

Quoting BA (Thread starter):


Now, though, "the regulatory barriers to Denver-Heathrow service have been removed," said Michael Whitaker, United's senior vice president of alliances, international and regulatory affairs. "For competitive reasons we're very careful not to discuss new routes . . . but we're certainly going to look at new opportunities" in Denver and elsewhere.

Imagine that!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
Funny, in the past when this has been brought up, I seem to recall the vast majority of the reaction here being negative to this idea

I imagine most of the people who were taking pot shots at DEN in favor of their own pet airport (usually DFW, SEA or SFO) won't be posting much in this thread. OpenSkies and the 787 may end up being the best thing that ever happens to Denver.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

Bermuda II is going to be gone soon - THANK GOD!! In my humble opinion, the restrictions on some airports are just ludicrous - and Denver is a primary example.

If ONE airline from either the U.K. or the U.S. wants to fly Denver-London, then they shall operate to Heathrow (assuming they have the rights to). But if TWO airlines want to fly it, they must both use Gatwick.

Now if a OneWorld airline can fill an airplane up from a Star Alliance city, then a Star Alliance carrier should be able to do the same thing. Denver is NOT the sleepy city at the foot of the Rockies anymore - it is a viable international and business destination. United will have NO problem filling up seats DEN-London, regardless of the airport.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
My favorite London flight in the past was CO's 34/35 from the old Stapleton to Gatwick. Even in the days when CO had a downright horrid reputation, they did a quality product with that flight, and it was nearly always full.

Interesting....I did not know that.

---------------

UA adding Denver-LHR to their schedule is almost a sure thing.......UA is a powerhouse at Denver, the BA service on the route does very well, and UA is well established at LHR. When UA cancelled its last JFK-LHR flight (in connection with the DL deal), it retained the slots and leased them to Air Canada.....my guess is that the slot leasing agreement has a provision that allows UA to cancel the agreement upon certain notice if UA requires the slots for its own use. I think that we can assume that Denver-Heathrow, using a 744 or 772ER, will commence March 2008, using the LHR slots that once accommodated the JFK flight.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
Interesting....I did not know that.

One of the reasons I liked it, was not only from the convenience of customs/immigration at Stapleton and their quality service, but it was one of the very first true codeshare flights (vs. the old interline type). They codeshared on Transavia's 732 midday flight between LGW-AMS, which even had a true business class product with two rows of 2x2 seating, with full hot meal service in business and a bag breakfast, lunch or dinner in coach--all on a 35-40 minute flight.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6506 times:

Even though the article says that UA is just "considering" adding the service, I would be absolutely shocked if UA did not announce DEN-LHR within the next few weeks.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6455 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Even though the article says that UA is just "considering" adding the service, I would be absolutely shocked if UA did not announce DEN-LHR within the next few weeks.

Would they really likely announce it within the next few weeks? I was thinking more like towards the end of the year, for service inauguration in Spring of next year.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 10):
Quoting OA412 (Reply 9):
Even though the article says that UA is just "considering" adding the service, I would be absolutely shocked if UA did not announce DEN-LHR within the next few weeks.

Would they really likely announce it within the next few weeks? I was thinking more like towards the end of the year, for service inauguration in Spring of next year.

Yeah you're probably right given that it likely would not be starting until Spring/Summer '08. Still, I definitely foresee an announcement this year for service starting sometime in March/April of next year.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineMymiles2go From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Of course, United could always cut back on serving domestic routes with longhaul aircraft - but United fills those up fairly well and they are fairly important to the overall route network (not to mention this has been discussed for years - like 5-7 years and never really changed).


User currently offlineNonRev From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 59 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6398 times:

DEN definitely being evaluated.

My understanding was that UA & BA had rights to fly it from LGW only. 9/11 happened and BA moved it to LHR for 'safety' reasons, where it has remained...

Longhaul aircraft being squeezed at the moment, but UA still streamlining services - e.g. MVD canx.


User currently onlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Looks like BA's biggest profit centre (USofA) is going to be attacked from a lot of different angles (i.e.-DEN, JFK, EWR, etc.)...this will be intersting in terms of what it does with its RFP... scratchchin 


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6358 times:

Quoting NonRev (Reply 13):
9/11 happened and BA moved it to LHR for 'safety' reasons, where it has remained...

BA moved its DEN, PHX, and SAN (no longer served) flights from LGW to LHR on October 26, 2002. It had nothing to do with 9/11.

I'm not sure of the exact details, but the Bermida II stipulates that a British carrier can operate to any US city from LHR, provided that the US city does not currently have service to either LHR or LGW by a US carrier. This is how BA was able to get around the Bermuda II restrictions.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6293 times:

It had volume requirements as well.

NS


User currently offlineMDW717 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Too bad they can't run DEN-LHR on the E170  duck 


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6164 times:

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Bear in mind that a lot of United's long haul starts and ends the day at DEN anyways. It won't be a dramatic drop in capacity, just DEN's O&D traffic not being forced to transit to ORD to fly to LHR anyways.


User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Quoting BA (Thread starter):
United could add flights to London

Finally. I hate that when I've been to London, I sweat looking at those 1970's monitors and seeing fewer UA flights back home than I'd like to see.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4):
I'd like to see it, since it could collect a lot of flyers from smaller airports in the west

Good point. I think DEN is an underrated UA hub.

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

I don't know their a/c routing system, but I'm sure they could reroute some of the larger widebodies to DEN to do this. Maybe they could take some of those 767's I remember seeing on the West Coast routes to Hawaii and put a couple/few in IAD for transatlantic flying. Then they could put a couple of 777's and/or 747's in DEN for this, although, I don't know how the 767 would perform for them on that. I just don't know about that, but maybe it could work.

-R


User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5965 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
looking at those 1970's monitors

Assuming you were in T3 (or you really wouldn't see any UA flights) it's entirely made up of large flat-screen displays for the flight info. 1970s monitors??  confused 


User currently offlineMymiles2go From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 18):
Bear in mind that a lot of United's long haul starts and ends the day at DEN anyways. It won't be a dramatic drop in capacity, just DEN's O&D traffic not being forced to transit to ORD to fly to LHR anyways.

If you go DEN-LHR instead of DEN-ORD-LHR, then you have to cut the ORD-LHR flight. Highly unlikely.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 19):
I don't know their a/c routing system, but I'm sure they could reroute some of the larger widebodies to DEN to do this. Maybe they could take some of those 767's I remember seeing on the West Coast routes to Hawaii and put a couple/few in IAD for transatlantic flying. Then they could put a couple of 777's and/or 747's in DEN for this, although, I don't know how the 767 would perform for them on that. I just don't know about that, but maybe it could work.

-R

Those are the Hawaii 767's and are two class, a subfleet with no international biz or interntional first. Same goes for the Hawaii 777's - also two class. Not really an option.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5846 times:
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How many 744s & 772s does UA have in storage at the moment? Is it possible for them to pull a couple out of one type or a mix to make this new DIA-LHR possible? This would be great for UA also considering they are getting ready to upgrade their premium cabins.

LACA773


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2073 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 12):
Not to mention the obvious, but people are forgetting that United doesn't exactly have spare longhaul aircraft in order to add new routes (without cutting routes elsewhere). Add one place, cut somewhere else.

Of course, United could always cut back on serving domestic routes with longhaul aircraft - but United fills those up fairly well and they are fairly important to the overall route network

The domestic 2 class widebodies are used primarily to Hawaii and between hubs. The 3 class domestic widebody flights are positioning flights. They would have to yank a plane from another route (SFO?) or possibly convert some 2 class aircraft as part of their F/C update.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 22):
How many 744s & 772s does UA have in storage at the moment?

None. All of the lease returned UA 772s are operating for other airlines. All of the 744s with UA paint in the desert were also returned to the leasing companies. There are only a few of them and they appear to be in bad shape.


User currently offlineTonyflyboi From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

Hi guys with the new agreement will British Airways move routes from Gatwick to Heathrow
ie :- DFW IAH ATL BDA ?


25 Kiwiandrew : BDA is not in the US or the EU so it is completely unaffected by this agreement . Don't let the fact that the old US-UK treaty was called Bermuda II
26 Kiwiandrew : would UA necessarily need a 3 class a/c . How much first class demand would there be hubbing through DEN to LHR ?
27 UAL777UK : They could tweek the system a little more, at best you will see a 777 on the route, somebody mentioned a 747 but theres no way i can see UA putting t
28 Stitch : UA also has 2-3 LHR slots on lease to VS which could be coming back within the next few years.
29 COFreqFlyer : Yah, 34/35 go DEN-IAH-LGW now, but CO still has rights DEN-LON (per 777gk in another thread), so they *could* (not saying they will) do a direct nons
30 AirFrnt : How many daily ORD-LHR flights are there? I don't know of any such arrangement that would allow CO to have the "rights" to stop any carrier from flyi
31 RayChuang : I wonder is there enough traffic to justify UA flying between Denver and London. It would certainly be popular during the winter months for Europeans
32 COFreqFlyer : Nonono, if I implied that they could "lock out" other carriers, that was not my intention. Please accept my apologies if I did somehow managed to inf
33 Post contains images Jacobin777 : more than enough... Just taking the piss.... here is the list.. AA 4x daily with 5x daily during the summer-all B777s BA 3x daily 2x777 and 1x767 dur
34 OOer : I doubt that UA would put a 744 on a DEN-LHR flight to start with. A 772 would probably do the job just fine, UA would probably run it 4-5 times a we
35 N1120A : That would have made more sense then, as US was already established at Gatwick and the likely switch of PHL to Heathrow would cause a slot crunch any
36 BA : I would say there is sufficient demand for both UA and BA on this route year-round. BA's flight is almost entirely O&D (some do make interline connec
37 EVA777SEA : Was BA allowed to increase the flight to more than Daily or did Bermuda II prevent that?
38 N1120A : They could go more than once daily now.
39 EVA777SEA : Sorry let me clarify, I meant back when Bermuda II was in effect.
40 Kiwiandrew : Bermuda II is still in effect . Open skies does not come in until March '08
41 N1120A : I was talking about that as well.
42 EVA777SEA : ^^^ Oh ok, that's my bad. I'm off today... If this route really provides this much oppurtunity, wouldn't BA have increased frequencies?
43 BA : Not necessarily. Increasing frequency would dilute yields and at this point, BA probably feels it is more beneficial to maintain current capacity and
44 Easyas321 : think ThomsonFly have been operating weekly charter UK/DEN in winter for skiers (from 1 of LONDONS airports we think). UA might pick up some of this t
45 AirFrnt : CO has wanted back into the DEN market, but the thinking was that they really had no chance to do that once F9 got strong legs there. With UA, F9 and
46 BA : It's from LGW and I think it's twice weekly. This is a Denverite who wouldn't give up a pinky toenail to replace UA with CO in DEN. UA has a lot of l
47 EVA777SEA : That would be a bad example as LH is part of Star Alliance and DEN is definately a Star Alliance hub. That means that the flights can pick up traffic
48 JetJeanes : Well if the Bermuda II is lifted Ua could probably go ahead with planes for Oma and Dsm Markets
49 AirFrnt : You seem very confused. Your point was: My Point: Which somehow you get to: But my point is that with a feed (Which BA doesn't have) UA can easily fi
50 EVA777SEA : I don't think so... About 20 million of the pax going through DEN are O&D. Over 47 million people went through DEN last year. Exactly how you got 55%
51 AirFrnt : I pulled the stat from a different A.net thread for O&D traffic last year, it may be incorrect, but I don't see the O&D numbers for the year publishe
52 Post contains images PanAm330 : I don't. DEN is a powerhouse for UA, and as long as they have a 744 available, it would most certainly be filled to the brim . Here's to hoping we se
53 UAL777UK : Would love to see it but at best you'll see a 777 on this route IMHO.
54 Ord : Check out this press release from May 25, 1999 (this is NOT a current release). At the time, a hoped-for open skies agreement was not reached and Unit
55 Aussiestu : What flight does AC use them for? Also how much time do they have to give AC to take the slots back? Also will AC be able to get another slot to fill
56 Dutchjet : AC is using the flights for one of its YYZ-LHR-YYZ turns.....I am not sure which one but the UA slots are well timed. The slot-lease agreement betwee
57 ConcordeBoy : ...you mean leave them exactly as they are, right? um, say what?
58 UAL777UK : It was when that press release was issued!
59 EVA777SEA : Don't get me wrong, I truly believe that UA would make the flight work. My point was that you are probably over-exaggerating the intl O&D from DEN, w
60 BA : DEN only has two daily flights to Europe (two be three starting Saturday with the start of MUC service) and both of these flights are very full year-
61 ConcordeBoy : ...dunno where you must be looking. I've seen that repeated throughout the thread; but just did a search for 10 different dates in both spring and su
62 Gigneil : This is a fun conversation, but it serves little point. United can fill whatever capacity they put on DEN-LHR, and it isn't a matter of if but when. U
63 Stitch : Sure. Make the fares low enough, and you can sell as many tickets as you want. The trick is, can UA sell enough profitable fares to make a 767 work,
64 AADC10 : If UA could not keep the front cabins of a 3 cabin widebody filled with enough paying passengers on any flight to a premium destination like LHR, the
65 SESGDL : United was the world's largest airline for over 10 years up until the AA/TW merger. Jeremy
66 N1120A : No, what he meant was that United could fill and make money
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