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Air Canada Moving To Concourse A In DEN  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5090 times:

I was just browsing the airline gates map and I'm shocked to see that Air Canada is moving to one of the international gates on Concourse A in DEN starting next month from its current gate on Concourse B with United Airlines:



As a result, Mexicana is being moved from gate A43 to A39, a gate also used by Frontier.

Why is AC being moved to Concourse A, let alone an international gate? AC flies to DEN from YYZ (3x daily) and YUL (1x daily) and both of these airports are equipped with US border preclearance facilities, so these flights do not clear immigration and customs in the US.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5077 times:

I suspect as time goes on, those two gates will be shared among the Star Alliance Carriers. With the news that UA is looking at LHR to DEN service, they will have to have access to a A terminal gate for Customs and Immigration access. That is unless the EU airports start putting in pre-clearence areas (which is not a insane idea).

It also may be indicitive that AC plans on some traffic to non Canadian destinations. Does the Canadian openskies agreement allow DEN to LHR routing? How many slots does AC have in LHR?


User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5047 times:

Or maybe Air Canada is considering adding service to DEN from a Canadian airport without preclearance? Although that is highly unlikely if they don't even serve DEN from the likes of YYC, YEG and YVR...but it is a possibility.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5035 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
I suspect as time goes on, those two gates will be shared among the Star Alliance Carriers. With the news that UA is looking at LHR to DEN service, they will have to have access to a A terminal gate for Customs and Immigration access.

Perhaps this is very much the reason, but still, there isn't really any reason for AC to use them.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
That is unless the EU airports start putting in pre-clearence areas (which is not a insane idea).

I'm not sure if the EU would accept this unless a reciprocal agreement is reached. As in, pre-clearance areas for the EU in US airports.

Also, it would require quite a bit of infrastructure changes done at EU airports if such an agreement was accepted.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 1):
It also may be indicitive that AC plans on some traffic to non Canadian destinations. Does the Canadian openskies agreement allow DEN to LHR routing? How many slots does AC have in LHR?

I don't think the new open skies agreement covers cabotage rights. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though...



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4846 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 3):
I don't think the new open skies agreement covers cabotage rights.

It doesn't, but this (DEN-LHR on AC) is not cabotage. Cabotage would be AC serving another US city from DEN directly.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Since Frontier also has an international gate in addition to its domestic gates, is it not possible that AC's international presence on the chart does not represent the totality of its operations at DEN? Might it not still be using UA domestic gates? With preclearance and code-sharing, there is no way AC is moving into a situation where its customers from pre-cleared flights will also be post-cleared.

User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 5):
is it not possible that AC's international presence on the chart does not represent the totality of its operations at DEN? Might it not still be using UA domestic gates?

One would certainly hope so, as the Star connections to and from UA would otherwise be unnecessarily complicated under the new arrangement.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4801 times:

Edited because I read something wrong.

[Edited 2007-03-25 18:24:49]


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRedTailDTW From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

DL must have given up one of their gates for AirTran, hmmm.



Mason



Northwest Airlines. Now you're flying smart! (RIP 1926-2009)
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22876 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4748 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 3):
but still, there isn't really any reason for AC to use them.

If UA needs an additional international gate for the LHR flight, that gate will sit unused for much of the day. If scheduling permits, it may be advantageous from a logistic point of view for AC to move to A.

Here's why... all bags arriving from Canada and connecting to a UA flight must be inspected by the TSA. If the only place that that can be done is at the main terminal, it will save UA some time to have to take those bags less far.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4734 times:

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 4):
It doesn't, but this (DEN-LHR on AC) is not cabotage. Cabotage would be AC serving another US city from DEN directly.

You're right. Thanks for clearing that up.

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 8):
DL must have given up one of their gates for AirTran, hmmm.

AirTran is moving to a gate currently used by Sun Country.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineEasyfriday2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Well i heard that the only reason we are moving to terminal a in DEN is because we are changing ground handlers there. Whoever ground handles LH will be taking care of us in DEN. But there might be more reasons than that.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Here's why... all bags arriving from Canada and connecting to a UA flight must be inspected by the TSA. If the only place that that can be done is at the main terminal, it will save UA some time to have to take those bags less far.

For what reason? They are already inspected.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
If UA needs an additional international gate for the LHR flight, that gate will sit unused for much of the day.

Good point, but this would only be true if this additional gate is being leased for a long-term basis by UA.

There are no long-term leases for gates A37 (British Airways), A39 (Frontier and soon Mexicana), A41 (Lufthansa), and A43. They are owned by the city and any airline can use them.

This is how Ted operates its Mexico flights. They use one of the city gates.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 9):
Here's why... all bags arriving from Canada and connecting to a UA flight must be inspected by the TSA. If the only place that that can be done is at the main terminal, it will save UA some time to have to take those bags less far.

If this is the case, does it mean that UA's Canada flights will be moved to these gates as well? If so, there will be a lot of congestion on these two gates for Air Canada's four daily flights, Lufthansa's two daily flights (which have long turn around times), and United's 17 daily flights.

That's 23 daily flights on two gates, with two of the flights occupying the gates for almost two hours (the Lufthansa flights).



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22876 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4477 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):

For what reason? They are already inspected.

Ask the government...

Seriously, you've got me, and I know it causes a lot of bags to misconnect at ORD. I would imagine that the situation at DEN is not grossly different.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

AC at one point was almost exclusively handled by United, at all US stations where their own staff was not in place. Over the last year, there was been a sizeable departure from UAL as the handling agent. Not sure whether it was a case of dissatisfaction or the almighty $$$$ and finding alternate arrangements at a more competitive price. I have my own theories.......  Wow!


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8287 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 3):
I'm not sure if the EU would accept this unless a reciprocal agreement is reached. As in, pre-clearance areas for the EU in US airports.
Also, it would require quite a bit of infrastructure changes done at EU airports if such an agreement was accepted.

I'm not sure why the EU would demand reciprocity. They're already setup to handle inbound international connecting traffic without forcing anyone to clear immigration/customs at the first airport. The reason the US allows pre-clearance is because the costs involved in equiping every single airport in the US with FIS and customs facilities.

Also, EU airport would not need all that much in terms of infrastructure changes because they already do immigration screening on every outbound passenger, and airports that offer non-stop service to the US already have an additional security checkpoint which could be easily converted into a full immigration checkpoint. The biggest problem would be how to handle customs for connecting passengers, and for that I don't really have an easy answer  Smile


User currently offlineBDL2DCA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 16):
Over the last year, there was been a sizeable departure from UAL as the handling agent.

I thought that part of ACE's investment in the US/HP merger also included a contract for US to ground-handle AC (as well as AC Jazz picking up some US express routes to Canada). Why they moved to A and not C? probably because C is full-to-the-gills.



146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
User currently offlineEasyfriday2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

I know we just changed from United to Us airways in Bos. And i could not say if it is cheaper but i know we were having problems with united ground handling us in BOS. And i do know that the ontime performance in Den for air canada always falls pretty close to dead last in the US. So i would think it has a lot to do with performance. Just my  twocents   twocents 

User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4224 times:

I'm not aware that any passenger check-in functions have actually been transferred to USAirways. I believe the primary transfer of pax functions has been awarded to Penauille-Servisair.

Virtually 100% of AC feed at DEN is United Airlines. Having to make the terminal/concourse switch is going to add time to connectivity. There has to be a good story here.

[Edited 2007-03-26 19:48:22]


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 20):
I'm not aware that any passenger check-in functions have actually been transferred to USAirways. I believe the primary transfer of pax functions has been awarded to Penauille-Servisair.

Virtually 100% of AC feed at DEN is United Airlines. Having to make the terminal/concourse switch is going to add time to connectivity. There has to be a good story here.

There is a pretty healthy O&D market here as well. I have never not been on the AC YYZ to DEN and not had it sold out.


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 21):
I have never not been on the AC YYZ to DEN and not had it sold out.

Wow, a triple negative. Do you mean your Toronto-Denver flights have always been full?



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Sheepish grin.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 22):

Wow, a triple negative. Do you mean your Toronto-Denver flights have always been full?

Yep.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22876 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 17):
The biggest problem would be how to handle customs for connecting passengers, and for that I don't really have an easy answer

They could do it just like Ireland, but that really doesn't solve the problem, as the planes still have to land at an FIS-capable gate. Still, some terminals (CDG 2B-- admittedly not a terminal that handles widebodies or US flights-- comes to mind) are set up such that you clear outbound immigration with luggage, so immigration, customs, and then bag check is not out of the question.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 IAHFLYER : MAybe they just wanted a gate closer to checkin? Do they use Pea Shooters or Big Birds, if the flights are with pea shooters, why make a few passenger
26 Post contains links UnknownUser : AC switched baggage handlers in DEN. It used to be handled by UA, but is now handled by IAS (Integrated Airline Services). IAS also handles LH, MX, FL
27 BA : This is true and this is the case for pretty much most of the world. The reasons why I think the EU wouldn't accept it without reciprocity is for pol
28 Cubsrule : It won't at all. It's a quick train ride, and it's not like most travelers will check into it before booking.
29 Briboy : Is there a RCC in A?
30 BA : True, it is just a quick train ride, however, DEN is known for allowing 30 minute connections and I'm not sure if it can be done if the connection re
31 Cubsrule : Domestic to AC minimum connect time is 35 minutes AC to domestic is 1:10.
32 FLYACYYZ : In terms of what???? Have operated dozens of flights to/from Denver without a glitch.
33 DIA77 : AC has added and dropped flights in the past. They added Montreal about 6 years and dropped it soon after (it started up again a few months ago). AC
34 DIA77 : Actually it looks like they are back up to 5 on some days, but many of those are operated by ERJs.
35 BA : Two of the flights are operated by UA.
36 FLYACYYZ : Airlines make ongoing adjustments for a variety of commercial and revenue based rationale. It would be like saying that American Airlines who is the l
37 Post contains links Mariner : Sorry, not so. Yes, DIA is building an eight gate extension of C, but it is not "just for" Southwest: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_5519817 S
38 AirFrnt : I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. I am a regular on the YYZ to DEN flights the operate for the last two years, and outside fo a tornado p
39 Post contains images BA : As DIA77 pointed out, AC has had a history of adding flights/routes and quickly discontinuing them. YEG and YWG were operated by what was then one of
40 JoePatroni : Well, we're all familiar with that "rumor mill" but I've heard (from a reliable source) that in this case, UA dropped the AC contract. AC was left to
41 Robsawatsky : I do not believe that bags originating from a Canadian airport that have undergone the pre-clearance procedures require re-inspection in the US befor
42 Cubsrule : The TSA has to inspect them. Again, I don't know why (and I don't honestly know what the story is with intermediate US stops). I'm not sure what to d
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