UAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3139 times:
KE is bigger in passenger flights and cargo flights. Asiana really doesn't stand a chance against KE. Thøugh they are becoming a new and interesting way to get to middle asia.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6753 posts, RR: 65 Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3130 times:
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2): Asiana really doesn't stand a chance against KE.
In what way? They've grown from nothing to be half as big as KE in twenty years. (A parallel with VS and BA might not be inappropriate.) Asiana are, as far as I know, profitable. And, if I may say so, they have a better safety record than KE.
Articulatexpat From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2006, 155 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2823 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 3): In what way? They've grown from nothing to be half as big as KE in twenty years. (A parallel with VS and BA might not be inappropriate.) Asiana are, as far as I know, profitable. And, if I may say so, they have a better safety record than KE.
I've flown both. Asiana's service is exceptional. So's KE's. I (and others) might have brought this up before, but there's at least one university in Korea that offers an undergraduate program in how to be a flight attendant. They take air service seriously. Fly the airlines, and it shows.
KE's safety record is a thing of the past. The company has turned itself around since the bad old days. I'd fly them more often if their fares out of Korea weren't so insanely high. I agree that the livery could stand to be freshened up a little, but the basic design is still good.
DLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2643 times:
Quoting Articulatexpat (Reply 6): I've flown both. Asiana's service is exceptional. So's KE's. I (and others) might have brought this up before, but there's at least one university in Korea that offers an undergraduate program in how to be a flight attendant. They take air service seriously. Fly the airlines, and it shows.
KE's safety record is a thing of the past. The company has turned itself around since the bad old days. I'd fly them more often if their fares out of Korea weren't so insanely high. I agree that the livery could stand to be freshened up a little, but the basic design is still good.
Bingo! I flew KE last week and sat next to an american instructor for KE on his way back to ICN.He was a retired pilot for US who was now working under contract for Airbus and giving both new and update training for the KE A330 crews. The safety problems are a thing of the past, partially because of USA trainers hired in to "break" the cycle of deference twoard elders mistakes.
The service is also taken very seriously!, although the wild knot around the FA's necks does look a little deranged to this western eye.
ATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 558 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2571 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 3): Not to mention a MUCH better livery...
I would have to strongly disagree. I think the old Asiana livery was beautiful but the new one is plain. I do agree with Rootsair that the tail is very nice, but the red arrow just looks odd and euro-white is boring. On the other hand the KE livery is very classy, I don't think any change is in order. This is coming from someone who loves the Olympic livery though so who knows!
Stirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 26 Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 5): I saw one (an A330) at Haneda the other day and it looked very classy.
It would have been nice had they extended the colours of the tail a little bit farther down the fuselage.
Otherwise, it is a totally exceptable 21st century design.....there are purists out there who want everything to look like 1979, but that is not how the world works....."Onwards and Upwards!" I say! Every airline can't be American Airlines....who changes livery designs once every 50 years!
What is the story of the red triangle, or upside down "V"....I am sure it has some significance, maybe it is a stylised "A"; for "Asiana"?
The problem I had with the old Asiana livery was that it had a scruffy look to it, hard to get around with a beige/taupe coloured airplane....landing in the smog of LAX and the planes were almost invisible in the smog!
From a designers standpoint, the elements of the livery were disjointed, disconnected....the colour stripes on the tail were not carried over to any other part of the aircraft...unless you count the icon/logo of half-circles just before "Asiana" on the forward fuselage.
I am not sure what the logo was too symbolise, but it was a busy little thing that added nothing..
Then there were the Korean language characters further back on the fuselage, in white, that appeared to be an afterthought in the design process. White against Beige/Taupe made them hard to see under hazy/bright sunlight, so they were a waste of paint, not to mention "Asiana" being white as well.
The old Asiana livery I could guess was a design by committee, too many persons involved with competing agendas. Too many ornamentions scattered about the aircraft that were not thematically connected to anything else.
The new design wins on simplicity, symetry, theme. As well, it works on all the aircraft of the fleet. The Star Alliance and Unicef logos even work in the new scheme.
The one big change I would make would be the placement of the Korean national flag on the tail....it interrupts an elegant burst of colour needlessly. (Unless there is some Korean Government Aviation directive stating it must be there, since on the old Asiana livery the flag is in the exact location.)
If it were up to me, I would place it at the very top of the tail, in the beige/taupe section, or better yet, down lower, next to the registration. That would be perfect.
VictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 298 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2465 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 9): The one big change I would make would be the placement of the Korean national flag on the tail....it interrupts an elegant burst of colour needlessly. (Unless there is some Korean Government Aviation directive stating it must be there, since on the old Asiana livery the flag is in the exact location.)
If it were up to me, I would place it at the very top of the tail, in the beige/taupe section, or better yet, down lower, next to the registration. That would be perfect.
The top of the tail is where KE places the Korean flag.
BrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3812 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2442 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 9): What is the story of the red triangle, or upside down "V"....I am sure it has some significance, maybe it is a stylised "A"; for "Asiana"?
I read somewhere that the "arrow" is the corporate logo of Asiana's parent firm. I believe the firm is trying to establish a coherent look throughout all of its companies.
Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
Mainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 367 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2339 times:
Quoting Stirling (Reply 9): I am not sure what the logo was too symbolise, but it was a busy little thing that added nothing..
If you look at the logo close up, it appears to be a woman in traditional Korean dress (I'm guessing) with her arms held toward the sky. Quite clever, in my opinion. I wish they'd kept it.
Articulatexpat From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2006, 155 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2316 times:
Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 11): Quoting Stirling (Reply 9):
What is the story of the red triangle, or upside down "V"....I am sure it has some significance, maybe it is a stylised "A"; for "Asiana"?
I read somewhere that the "arrow" is the corporate logo of Asiana's parent firm. I believe the firm is trying to establish a coherent look throughout all of its companies.
Yup. It's the logo for the Kumho (±ÝÈ£, if your browser displays the Korean alphabet) industrial conglomerate.
Quoting Mainliner (Reply 12): If you look at the logo close up, it appears to be a woman in traditional Korean dress (I'm guessing) with her arms held toward the sky. Quite clever, in my opinion. I wish they'd kept it.
JayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 17 Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2312 times:
I no longer work for KE, but I still get very SICK and TIRED of hearing about KE's "former" safety record. They have made a COMPLETE 180 degree turn-around from their past safety issues.
They hired (for the first time in their company's history !!) two outsiders (Americans) to overhaul their safety and flight procedures. One came from DL and the other from US (before the HP merger). I read a very interesting article about how they changed the culture on the flight deck while at KE as well as the safety and maintenance issues.
The analogy they gave in the article was to imagine trying to change a flat tire on a car while it was going down the freeway. That is how difficult their job was to turn around these issues of safety and maintenance and crew resource management.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6753 posts, RR: 65 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2271 times:
Quoting JayDavis (Reply 14): I still get very SICK and TIRED of hearing about KE's "former" safety record.
Since I brought it up, I should apologise. I'm delighted that those bad old days are behind KE but their run of crashes is a matter of historical record. It happened.
Quoting JayDavis (Reply 14): The analogy they gave in the article was to imagine trying to change a flat tire on a car while it was going down the freeway. That is how difficult their job was to turn around these issues of safety and maintenance.
BO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2760 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2170 times:
Jaydavis, do you have any additional info on the article you read? I am interested in hearing more about the whole cockpit environment thingy. Things like respect, chain of commands, issues of conflict whereas the F/O cannot use his voice to raise concern of a mistake or somethings like that.
I think the real question here is, what are the flight attendants on the two carriers like?
They are probably beautiful young women with great figures and a smooth korean accent to their speaking.
Expanding my global domination one spotter at a time..
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1289 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 3): Not to mention a MUCH better livery...
You gotta be kidding me! Wait, aren't some students in Switzerland are missing their teacher? Why the 'change' to Japan?
Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 8): I think the old Asiana livery was beautiful but the new one is plain. I
Both of them are ridiculously boring to say the least. KE's livery is awesome if you ask me.
Gotta go where the jobs are! Anyway, ZRH was getting boring and I wanted to fly on a domestic 744. (And now I've flown on three: JA8099, JA8957 and JA8963 )
777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1761 times:
Both are great airlines -- the line in Korea is that KE is better if you're going to the US, Europe or the Middle East b/c it has better routes, more flights and more destinations there than OZ. But you use OZ if you're travelling to South East, South or Central Asia. They are about the same to Australia and the Pacific Islands. Don't think that's true any more, but that was breakdown for a while.
Working for an old Korean company, I generally fly KE (KE still dominates international business travel among Korean companies) -- but I've flown OZ a number of times and it's a solid airline. I do have to give an edge to KE's new interior's and business class product -- KE is more comfortable and has better IFE since they started upgrading about a year ago.
UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6753 posts, RR: 65 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1698 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 21): KE has about double the number of OZ.
As of today's websites, OZ have 59 and KE have 122.
Both fly mixtures of Boeings and Airbuses. Both have 747s, 777s and A330s. The KE narrowbody fleet is all 737s. OZ have A32Xs. KE have ordered both the 787 and A380; so far OZ have ordered neither.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1289 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 18): Gotta go where the jobs are! Anyway
True, reason I am in my new adopted continent, Asia.
I' ve never flown KE myself but I will in may. Thy sure sound like a solid airline and I'll be able to compare with OZ which I've flown SFO-ICN 3 times in the last 7 months. OZ's new business class on the 777's is one of the best I've been on so can't wait to try KE's. I think OZ's cabin service is splendid but they seem not to have a clue about most of the other things e.g boarding process and transfers. Out of the 3 times I've flown them, I've head to go to one of their hotels at ICN because the MNL arrival is at 4 am and the SFO departure is at 5pm. They're kind enough to give you a hotel but then 2 of the times I've gotten to the counter only to find out I am not on the 'list' after confirming it previously. Ooh well, they always worked it out somehow though so can't really complain.
MotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2818 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1422 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 3): (A parallel with VS and BA might not be inappropriate.)
Or BR and CI as both BR and OZ benefited hugely from the terrible incident and safety records of their countries' respective flag carriers (CI and KE) during the late 80's and 90's.
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