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Allegheny CV-580 Question  
User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

Does anyone out there know the date that AL retired their last Convair 580? Seems it was around the start of deregulation, but not sure. Thanks

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

I don't have specifics, but there appear to be just a few CVR flights left for AL (not AL*) in October 75. In the 1977 OAG I don't think there were any left.

User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

The date was indeed around the start of deregulation. In Allegheny's April 24, 1977 timetable, some flights operated Convair 580 equipment are shown. Their October 29, 1978 timetable shows no service by Convair 580s. A check of Allgheny Convairliners at the airliners.net photo database, sorted by most recent photo date, brought up what is obviously an in-service photo (seen below) of a Convair 580 in full Allegheny livery (blue stripes, red titles) taxiing to/from its gate at LGA, dated 3 April 1978, which further narrows the time frame of the date when AL's retired their last 580 from service to somwhere between April and October 1978. Deregulation in the U.S. took effect in November 1978.
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Photo © Howard Chaloner



User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Thanks very much for the research info.

User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3335 times:

I think it was Allegheny Airlines, I was told they had a CV-580 crash on take off or landing (near an airport) and a couple of day later had another CV-580 crash near the same location. The crew was trying to see the crash site and they too crashed.

Some one on here will know the details.


User currently offlineRampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

Here is a list of CV-580 crashes from the Air Accident Database. There were two crashes near the end of 1968 for North Central, but they did not occur at the same airport. Allegheny did have a single crash within the same period. But as you can see, there were two other crashes involving the two airlines in ensuing years.

If I recall correctly, at least one of the 580 crashes was caused when there was an engine failure, and the pilots were unable to feather the prop on the stricken engine. Not sure though.....

Here ya go:

CV-580" target=_blank>http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/a...detail.cgi?aircraft=Convair+CV-580


Date Airline/Location Aircraft Type/Registration Fatalities

03.05.1967 Lake Central Airlines Convair CV-580 37:37
Marseille, Ohio N73130

08.04.1968 North Central Airlines Convair CV-580 1:1
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA N4634S

12.24.1968 Allegheny Airlines Convair CV-580 20:37
Bradford, Pennsylvania, USA N5802

12.27.1968 North Central Airlines Convair CV-580 27:45
Chicago, Illinois, USA N2045

06.07.1971 Allegheny Airlines Convair CV-580 28:31
New Haven, Connecticut, USA N5832

06.29.1972 North Central Airlines Convair CV-580 13:13
Appleton, Wisconsin N90858

09.08.1989 Partnair Convair CV-580 55:55
Skagerrak, Denmark LN-PAA

12.06.2001 Trans Air Link Convair CV-580F 0:2
Haulover Beach, Florida, USA N582HG

08.13.2004 Air Tahoma (DHL) Convair CV-580 1:2
Hebron, Kentucky, USA N586P

04.27.2006 LAC - SkyCongo Convair CV-580F 8:8
Amisi, Congo ZS-SKH


Hope this helps!

[Edited 2007-03-26 07:11:51]

[Edited 2007-03-26 07:14:02]

User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 4):
I think it was Allegheny Airlines, I was told they had a CV-580 crash on take off or landing (near an airport) and a couple of day later had another CV-580 crash near the same location. The crew was trying to see the crash site and they too crashed.

Yes they had two crashes in Bradford, PA within a few days of each other. Allegheny also lost a CVR 580 in Williamsport, PA.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

I think the AL Convairs were retired in May or June, 1978. Allegheny's June, 1978 timetable celebrated both the beginning of 727-100 service and the retirement of the 580s.


Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

This link doesn't have exact dates, but it does confirm 1978. And it reports that the Mohawk 298's were still in the fleet until 1979! I wonder if they changed any of the 298's to have USAir titles? They were no longer Allegheny at that point.

http://www.usairways.com/awa/content...s/pressroom/history/allegheny.aspx


User currently offlineAirEMS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 684 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

I think there was a 580 accident near Buena Vista Colorado in the late 80's and was a Aspen Airways A/C I want to say that it was a wheels up landing or something like it


-Carl



If Your Dying Were Flying
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
And it reports that the Mohawk 298's were still in the fleet until 1979!

An example of airline smoke-and-mirrors convloution from a bygone era? Mohawk 298 was the new name given to re-engined Nord 262s. It seems rather puzzling that AL would chose to implicitly deflect blame onto merger partner Mohawk for any further crashes of an aircraft with a troublesome safety record when, in fact, the aircraft had been inherited from previous merger partner, Lake Central.


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3023 times:

There were Originally Nine Nord 262s that were converted by Frakes Aviation of Clebourne, Tx. They became the Mohawk M-298. They featured the P&W PT6A-34 engines and an APU installed on the starboard sponson that housed the right main landing gear. The "298" was coined from the then Civil Aeronautics Board designation for CAB Part 298 Commuter Airlines. I am not sure why they chose to call it the Mohawk or even know if it had anything to do with their merger with Mohawk Airlines.
The Nord 262s ordered by Lake Central were not an unsafe plane, just terribly underpowered with their original Turbomeca Bastan angines until Turbomeca came up with an uprated engine. After that the plane flew fine.
The Original Nine M-298s were to be used by Allegheny on some closer short haul flights, example PIT to Altoona, Williamsport, Clarksburg. Allehgeny also dubbed Them the Allegheny Metro Express propjets. I have a slide with the Allegheny Metro Express titles.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0602176/L/

The M-298s flew for Allegheny for a couple years, however not without losing one to an accident. The accident was due to the aicraft not being de-iced properly. Shortly there after Allegheny decided to pull the Metro Express porgram and the remaining eight M-298's were sold to two Allegheny Commuter operators: Ransome Airlines of Philadelphia, Pa. And Clark Aviaition dba Pennsylvania Commuter Airlines based in Harrisburg, Pa. Both airlines got four aircrraft each.
The four that flew with Ransome Airlines flew until they became a Pan Am Express carrier. They were then sold to a carrier in Australia.
The four that flew with Pennsylvania Commuter were surplussed and sold/leased? to an Air Florida Commuter airline called National Airlines...However they were reposessed and three of them were sold to Richmor Aviation. I have not heard of where the 4th one went to but Id imagine that all four are toast.....
I hope this clarifies the M-298 business....

One side note: Frakes Aviation was the company that also did the Turbprop conversion of the Grumman G-73 Mallard.

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day ago) and read 2997 times:

Out of curiosity I did some looking on the Nord 262's and found that they had female French names in their Allegheny days and were painted purple with gold including a fleur d' le on the tail.

Here are the names I found

01 Yvonne
02 Claudette
03 Nicole
07 Yvette
08 Celeste
09 Michelle
11 Bridgette
12 Collette
13 Monique

Anyone know if there were others?


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 10):
An example of airline smoke-and-mirrors convloution from a bygone era? Mohawk 298 was the new name given to re-engined Nord 262s. It seems rather puzzling that AL would chose to implicitly deflect blame onto merger partner Mohawk for any further crashes of an aircraft with a troublesome safety record when, in fact, the aircraft had been inherited from previous merger partner, Lake Central.

The only problem that Lake Central Airlines had with the Nord 262s were that the Engines were under powered. But as I said previously, Turbomeca uprated the engines for a marginal bit more power. However any short comings with the engines were becaus of the use of Water Methanol injection into the engines which proved to be corrosive to the turbo machinery specifically the Turbine disc section which resulted in disintigration of the turbine blades and even an engine explosion due to the Water Meth.
I would believe that the P&W Conversion was an attempt to uprate the power with a less fussy engine, altho Ransome Airlines ended up with a majority of the Ex-Lake Central 262s. However some were actually conveted over to the M-298.


Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
Here are the names I found

01 Yvonne
02 Claudette
03 Nicole
07 Yvette
08 Celeste
09 Michelle
11 Bridgette
12 Collette
13 Monique

Anyone know if there were others?

Yes, there were three others that were not named:

N26201 Yvonne s/n 9
N26202 Claudette s/n 10
N26203 Nicole s/n 11
N26207 Yvette s/n 12
N26208 Celeste s/n 13
N26209 Michele s/n 14
N26210 No Name s/n 16
N26211 Brigitte s/n 17
N26212 Colette s/n 18
N26213 Monique s/n 19
N26215 No Name s/n 23
N26217 No Name s/n 24
That is the complete list of the Lake Central Nords.....

Some of these Nords were converted to the M-298s.....Sorry I forgot which ones.....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2868 times:

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 13):
The only problem that Lake Central Airlines had with the Nord 262s were that the Engines were under powered.

Are you forgetting the incident that occurred less than one year after Lake Central took delivery of their first Nord 262 in which several pax were seriously injured when parts from a disintegrating Nord 262 engine sliced through the fuselage into the pax cabin? There were also other incidents involving the engines of Lake Central's Nords in which serious injuries and/or fatalities were fortuitously averted.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2893 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Thanks for the info, Access-Air! Sure, it's cool that airlines like United and American may have had airplanes named for cities or people a few decades ago...don't mean to downplay that at all. But a tiny fleet of oddball aircraft almost forgotten with names signifying the country where the aircraft came from...that's so cool to find someone who knows about it!

User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 11):
I have a slide with the Allegheny Metro Express titles.

Does anyone know if the "Metro" in the titled was affiliated with Metro Airlines in DFW?


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 14):
Are you forgetting the incident that occurred less than one year after Lake Central took delivery of their first Nord 262 in which several pax were seriously injured when parts from a disintegrating Nord 262 engine sliced through the fuselage into the pax cabin?

No.....I just read my LCA history.......I am aware of all that......

Access-Aiir



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 13):
Yes, there were three others that were not named:

N26201 Yvonne s/n 9
N26202 Claudette s/n 10
N26203 Nicole s/n 11
N26207 Yvette s/n 12
N26208 Celeste s/n 13
N26209 Michele s/n 14
N26210 No Name s/n 16
N26211 Brigitte s/n 17
N26212 Colette s/n 18
N26213 Monique s/n 19
N26215 No Name s/n 23
N26217 No Name s/n 24
That is the complete list of the Lake Central Nords.....

Sorry, off the topic, but this reminds me of one my postings a few months ago involving another slightly faster French aircraft, the Caravelle, and its only North American customer, United. UA also gave their 20 Caravelles French names, but cities/towns, not girls, and the name appeared in French. That was rather exotic for UA at that time since their only destinations outside the USA then were Vancouver and Toronto. UA Caravelles in service 1961-62 through 1970-72. Their names as follows:

N1001U VILLE DE TOULOUSE
N1002U VILLE DE CAHORS
N1003U VILLE DE MARSEILLE
N1004U VILLE DE PARIS
N1005U VILLE DE GRENOBLE
N1006U VILLE DE SAINTES
N1007U VILLE DE COUNTENCES
N1008U VILLE DE ROCHEFORT
N1009U VILLE DE ROUEN
N1010U VILLE DE STRASBOURG
N1011U VILLE DE DIJON
N1012U VILLE DE LILLE
N1013U VILLE DE ARLES
N1014U VILLE DE NICE
N1015U VILLE DE SAINT-NAZAIRE
N1016U VILLE DE NANTES
N1017U VILLE DE CANNES
N1018U VILLE DE BORDEAUX
N1019U VILLE DE LYON
N1020U VILLE DE CALAIS


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 16):
Does anyone know if the "Metro" in the titled was affiliated with Metro Airlines in DFW?

No it was not.....Metro Airlines was founded in 1966 as NASA Commuter Airlines in Houston and was renamed Houston Metro Airlines in 1970. In 1974, the airline was again renamed Metro Airlines. They initially operated with Twin Otters and hubbed in Houston Intercontinental and Hobby but also bracnhed out and started hubbing in DFW. They also started flying Shorts 330s and them moved to Convair 580s and and later Jestream 31s and also became an American Eagle carrier in 1985.
They also started an Atlanta based subsidiary called Eastern Metro Express to code share with Eastern Airlines...flying Jestream 31s and new Dash 8s....
So no.....the Metro Express Propjets of Allegheny Airlines had nothing to do with the Metro Airlines.

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
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