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Landing At SFO With Cessna 150  
User currently offlineJawed From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 482 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

I was wondering whether it's generally possible to land at a large airport (like MSP or SFO) with a small Cessna 150 airplane. I always thought it would be cool to do that, on the main runway, like one of the big guys.

How would a private pilot go about this? Just radio the tower and announce you're coming? Or will ATC scream at you and tell you to take a hike?

[Edited 2007-03-26 05:23:57]

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLouA340 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7156 times:

I don't really think it would be possible...especially during rush hour. But I have some friends who landed at ORD with a Cessna 172 with an AA MD-80 following right behind. It was quite late at night though so I guess there was not alot of traffic.


RyEng
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7156 times:

I have landed at large airports before (JFK and PVD to name a few) in a small a/c before (C152 and Piper Warrior). Just study your stuff before hand. Know what typical traffic patterns to expect. Use flight following and they will often vector you into the airport in a way that doesn't disrupt the faster aircraft. Make your intentions clear and your communications professional and the tower controllers won't really have a problem with you. Also, get off the runway quickly...unless they tell you to exit at a particular intersection. Also, know where you are going after you land (i.e.: which FBO if there is more than one). It is really fun to land a small plane at a big airport!!!!

Oh, I would also suggest not trying it during a rush hour time.

Hope that helps...happy flying!!!



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22741 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7123 times:

A lot of the flight schools in the Charlotte area have a sheet taped somewhere in their planes with the busy times at CLT. Even at a lot of busy commercial airports (CLT is north of 700 daily movements), there are definitely quiet times during the day.

And if nothing else, it's great fun to file ORD as an alternate when going to PWK, or ATL as an alternate when going to FFC. Makes you feel important...

[Edited 2007-03-26 05:50:40]


I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7101 times:

I was under the impression that ORD didn't take private small stuff like that for some time now.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineZBBYLW From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 1983 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7070 times:

It is relatively easy to get into YVR, all they get you to do is basically go for 08R/26L and get you to come in from the south 90 degrees to the threshold and once you get to the threshold, turn a nice sharp final and voila you land taxi off ass soon as possible and your on your way to the south side. Late at night it is less busy, I know one guy who did a 5 foot low and over of the ENTIRE runway at 60 kts, just to do a tear drop and do a "high" speed low and over again over the entire runway in his C-172, have to get tower at the right time.


Keep the shinny side up!
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Small planes can land at MSP but no training flights are permitted. You need to terminate the flight at the FBO and you need to pay a landing fee. It is not uncommon for Cessna 172s or Piper Warriors to land at MSP.

I am guessing that VFRs theoretically can land at many major airports but air traffic controllers wouldn't let any VFRs in unless it is slow. IFR flights have priority of VFR flights so air traffic controllers are not going to inconvenience an IFR flight just so a small VFR flight can get in.

Some busy airports require reservations for unscheduled IFR arrivals (e-CVRS - Faa.gov).



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7037 times:
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DATABASE EDITOR



I've flown a 152 into DTW for some quick pattern work. I simply got into the pattern at a neighboring airport (YIP) and asked the controller to call over to DTW to see if they could fit us in.

Sure enough, moments later, I was instructed to fly a heading of 090 and contact DTW tower. Easy as that....in the middle of the day, no less.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlinePhxplanes From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6992 times:

Your best shot to make it into a big airport is to go real late at night.

Quoting Jawed (Thread starter):
How would a private pilot go about this? Just radio the tower and announce you're coming? Or will ATC scream at you and tell you to take a hike?

You would have to contact approach first to be able to enter the bravo airspace then they would try to squeeze you in somewhere in the traffic flow.


User currently onlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6982 times:

You have to Land a bit off Center at MNL Because the Runways Center Lights are too bumpy for a 172...

User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6961 times:

I know you have to pay like a 60 or 70 dollar landing fee to go into SFO. So in another words, they try to discourage it! But yeah I guess if you go EARLY in morning or late at night I'm sure it no problem. But if you go at rush hour, I guess its a little inconsiderate.

User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1282 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6960 times:

It's not the busiest airport in the world, but I am training at YOW which has one runway for GA traffic on the "north field" and two main runways on the "south field". When it's not busy, it is quite easy to run circuits on the main runways.

Always fun landing a Cessna 150 on a 10,000 foot runway.  Cool



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3006 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

I train at SLC, landing together with jets of all sizes. The best so far was when a Delta 767 was behind us in the pattern. Boy I felt so superior and special, it was a great moment Big grin

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6098 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

Quoting Deltaflyertoo (Reply 10):

Correct. There is from what I have been tol a landing fee for SFO. Though if you know the right people and land during late hours they will let you make an approach. I was offered by an air traffic controller approaches after midnight if I'd like. Never took the offer though.

ASLAX

[Edited 2007-03-26 08:15:48]


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8039 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6786 times:

Going into KMER (old Castle AFB in Merced, CA) was always fun as a student from the Bay Area. Not another plane in sight and all the 12000 feet of runway you can handle!


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6800 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6640 times:

So where do you look to find out whether you're allowed at a given airport? The link in Reply 6 says no reservations required at JFK--zat mean you can show up anytime and they have to accept you? If not, what rule could they cite?

The link only mentions LGA-ORD-DCA-- no reservations needed anywhere else?


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 6487 times:

Quoting Jawed (Thread starter):
I was wondering whether it's generally possible to land at a large airport (like MSP or SFO) with a small Cessna 150 airplane. I always thought it would be cool to do that, on the main runway, like one of the big guys.

How would a private pilot go about this? Just radio the tower and announce you're coming? Or will ATC scream at you and tell you to take a hike?

Not to come of half cocked on you, but do the commerical airlines and airports a favor, use a reliever airport. That's what they're there for. SFO doesn't need you sucking up capacity with your 150. Odds are ATC will put you into a holding pattern until you have a fuel issue anyway.


User currently offlineJayDub From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 16):
Not to come of half cocked on you, but do the commerical airlines and airports a favor, use a reliever airport. That's what they're there for. SFO doesn't need you sucking up capacity with your 150. Odds are ATC will put you into a holding pattern until you have a fuel issue anyway.

On a perfectly clear day with no enroute contraints and light/calm winds during the quiet part of the day/night, give it a shot...sounds like it could be fun. Make sure the airport isn't above arrival demand, though.

On most days (like today)...throw some low cigs/vis or some awkward winds into SFO, ORD, and other major commercial hubs...and they will quickly be above arrival demand. Throwing another unnecessary flight into the mix just makes the airline delays that much longer.


User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

I was flying out of ATL the Monday after the last time the Superbowl was held there. I was in the BizE lounge when I saw a C172 transiting the taxi way between the N and S sides of the airfield at about 4 PM in the afternoon. I had my aviation hand held radio with me so I tuned it to tower frequency and listened in. Every 15 minutes or so the C172 would come on and "check in" with Atlanta Ground because he was still holding short of the Lima taxiway at Dixie. For those of you unfamiliar with the ATL layout http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KATL/APD/AIRPORT+DIAGRAM.

The controllers made that guy sit there for at least 2 hours (I say at least because my flight to Amsterdam was called and I left while he was still sitting there).

Serves him right if you ask me. A light single engine plane has absolutely no business flying into or out of a major airport during a busy time. The sheer amount of room that a controller has to clear to allow such a plane to even taxi to the runway is a major disruption to the operations. A 757 at idle can probably flip him over a good 300 away.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it. IMO the C172 showed very poor airmanship and professional courtesy to his fellow aviators by doing what he did.

[Edited 2007-03-26 21:51:55]

User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

Most large airports discourage small planes with landing fees. Other than that, I am not aware of any restriction. It's pretty much first come first served, but do yourself and everyone else a favor and be thoroughly familiar with the airport, taxiways, and FBO locations first. Also, check on the landing fee beforehand. The best source would be the FBO at the airport you want to land at. I know that at BOS it costs about $100 to land there; be aware that there are often ramp fees and/or minimum fuel purchases as well as the actual landing fee. My suggestion: many smaller airports served by the airlines are small-airplane friendly; for example, in my area, BDL is a delight. No landing fees, no hassle, they just work you into the pattern and the FBO is one of the friendliest I have encountered, and you get to watch plenty of big planes (OK, no 747's but there's everything else).


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineZOTAN From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6380 times:

Pope,

First off, the C172 has every right to use ATL that you do. ATL is a public airport, and is open to any plane. He pays taxes just like everyone else, therefore he is allowed to use ATL.

You have no right to say he shouldn't be there. You had no idea what his circumstances were, and why he was there when he was. He could have had a medical emergency, a mechanical problem, etc.

If anything, the controller was the unprofessional one. Making a plane sit for more than 2 hours is just crazy, especially on an active taxiway. If he was so busy, he should have never let the plane start up. Making the C172 sit on an active taxiway because he decided to use ATL (For reasons unknown to you and the controller) is immature, disrespectful, and shows a lack of professional conduct by the controller.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6837 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 20):
First off, the C172 has every right to use ATL that you do. ATL is a public airport, and is open to any plane. He pays taxes just like everyone else, therefore he is allowed to use ATL.

While this is true I am of the opinion that private planes should show consideration for the realities of the situation. My 182 burns 8-12 gallons of fuel an hour; an airliner burns thousands. If I want to land at ATL or a similar airport at busy times, it will probably take as much time as 2 or 3 airliners because of my slower speed, costing the airlines thousands of dollars in fuel costs. Just because I legally can do it doesn't mean that it I should; also bear in mind that I would also be delaying hundreds of passengers. As stated in my previous post, many less busy airline airports are very friendly to GA traffic, and there are reliever airports at all major cities that welcome GA planes, so I do not see any need to land at places like BOS, JFK, ATL, or the like. I am not sure just where SFO fits in the scheme of things, but I would personally avoid it if I were flying in that area if possible, just out of courtesy.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Quoting ZOTAN (Reply 20):
First off, the C172 has every right to use ATL that you do. ATL is a public airport, and is open to any plane. He pays taxes just like everyone else, therefore he is allowed to use ATL.

You have no right to say he shouldn't be there. You had no idea what his circumstances were, and why he was there when he was. He could have had a medical emergency, a mechanical problem, etc.

First of all, I never denied that he had the right to use it. In fact my second to last sentence explicitly concedes that point.

Second, there is a ton of general aviation airports in the area all better suited for medical emergencies than KATL. (and that assumes that there was a medical emergency issue).

Third, as a private pilot myself, I know the amount of disruption that flying a GA plane into KATL would cause for literally thousands of people. I would estimate that conservatively at least 4 aircraft, if not more, trailing the C172 would have their approaches disrupted to provide sufficient spacing for a C172. At max structural cruising speed, the C172 is probably slower than the approach speed of a CRJ let alone a 757 with its wake issues. Then when the aircraft lands, it needs to taxi and a significant amount of space in front of it needs to be left clear further disrupting the clearance of planes transiting from the outer runways to the gates (and therefore the departures from the inner runways). Add up all the people on those flights and a thousand people is probably on the low end.

If you've ever been to or through ATL you know what a well choreographed ballet it is with the volume of traffic that is moved through there. If you ask me, it is extremely selfish for someone to do this because they can. Add to the fact that the departure was during the afternoon rush and he's just created his own problem.

Perhaps as you grow older you'll realize that "can" and "should" are too different things.


User currently offlineSJCRRPAX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6245 times:

I can't imagine they would ever let a Cessna 150 land at SFO. I would think they would tell you to land at San Carlos airport which is about 12 miles away from SFO. I remember a few years ago Mayor Willie Brown calling United Airlines 30 passenger planes "ittsy Bittsy Pantywaist" aircraft that should be banned from SFO. I don't think SFO likes any prop aircraft, not sure if they have a ban in effect, but it seems odd to even think about a Cessna 150 at SFO. SJC has a general aviation runway, and I have even heard people say general avaiation should be banned at SJC, especially after PSA flight 182 collided with a Cessna 172 in San Diego.

User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1642 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6174 times:
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One time I had to do an unscheduled tire change on our JetStar, which had a layover at Newark airport (EWR). Instead of driving, I flew my C-150 VFR into EWR with the spare tire, tire jack and tools.

EWR was using runway’s 22L/R that day and they vectored my to Runway 29 so I was able to stay out of the airliners path. After I finished my work I took off on 29 for the flight back home to HPN.

I had to pay the landing fee, which of course was reimbursed by my company and was able to cut out almost 3 hours of driving. As soon as I could I contacted New York Approach and advised them of my intentions, they cleared me to fly right down the Hudson River and make a right turn at the Statue of Liberty and the tower cleared me for a straight in for runway 29.

EWR controllers had no problem with me and when I was on final approach to 29 there was a Northwest 727 in position for takeoff on 22L. I requested that the tower advise the Northwest pilots that a small airplane was landing right behind them and to keep the power at idle, they forwarded that request and the Northwest acknowledged it.

But is was a VFR day, I would never fly any small airplane into a large airport like EWR IFR, that could cause problems with the air traffic controllers.

Most large airports will bring a small airplane VFR in on a different approach and sometimes land on a different runway to keep them away from the jet traffic. It is the airport operating authority who does not want small airplanes there, not the FAA.

I also flew my airplane to DCA VFR on a couple of occasions and again had no problems with the controllers, pre 9/11 of course.


25 Jhooper : While private and commercial aircraft alike are entitled to land at public use airports such as DFW, ATL, JFK, etc, aircraft oparating under VFR are c
26 Noelg : Is that all? That's much less than I woulud have expected. I know somebody who landed a King Air at LGW. They were charged a £600 landing fee - that
27 Sllevin : And in my opinion there wasn't anything wrong with it. If the controller yanked his chain for those 2 hours the controller was way in the wrong. That
28 Timz : Can anyone find a rule anywhere that says so?
29 Post contains images Itsnotfinals : You can land a C150 at SFO so no one will find anything to the contrary Back in the late 80's I was a maintenance director for a flying club at CMH.
30 KingAirMan : I took my Grumman Cheetah into KIND at about 1100 AM on a Friday morning, along with the NW jets and FX heavies. Approach control was great, as a cour
31 Peterinlisbon : I flew once at Cairns airport in Australia in a C152. When we were coming back to the airport there was a 747 bound for Toyko on the runway, so we str
32 Socalfive : Courtesy is it. Things happen fast at big airports, back in the early 80s when I used to fly in and out of PHX quite a bit in a 182, I was flying in
33 UnknownUser : Best way is to ask to transition through bravo and request a touch and go if they have time.
34 Highflier92660 : As an airspace user in these good 'ol United States, it's your right to create general aviation chaos in Class B airspace provided you have the approv
35 ATCGOD : Just so everyone knows, any airport that takes federal money cannot turn away an aircraft. Now, what they charge for a landing fee is another story.
36 JayDub : How is making a smaller, slower aircraft wait for a safe gap in the takeoff/landing sequence unprofessional? I would call this very professional and
37 Sphealey : 1) Both _Flying_ and _AOPA Flight Training_ have articles on where you can do this and how to plan and execute it about once every two years; search t
38 Vprzebinda : Does the landing fee apply for practice approaches and touch and gos? I heard the if you just ask for a touch and go when it's not busy they may waive
39 SEPilot : Yes it does. If you want to do touch-and-gos do them at a less busy airport. Approaches are another matter; technically a landing fee only applies if
40 Post contains images Phishphan70 : i personally have done dozens of flights directly over SFO in a 152, but never landed there. i decided i was never going to try it when i was vectored
41 Post contains images SJCRRPAX : Touch and Go at SFO? I honestly don't understand you private pilots. Is it an ego thing or what? Why can't you be happy with San Carlos, Palo Alto, Re
42 Phishphan70 : 100% agree. i am never trying to mess with the big birds!
43 Alias1024 : Lets see, that's the one where the PSA pilots called the traffic in sight then hit a 172. Kinda hard to blame that on the GA pilot since the 727 was
44 Pope : And there you have the problem - to hell with how many people are inconvenienced and/or put at risk by you exercising a "right". With rights come res
45 SJCRRPAX : I guess using that logic, you should also be able to land on a carrier too. I don't fault the GA pilot, it was an accident. It's not like the 727 has
46 Socalfive : LOL... oh man, that's a pretty arrogant way to state your opinion, especially since you "claim" to be a Dash-8 FO. The PSA 182 accident was a combina
47 Post contains images Alias1024 : Same for the PSA aircraft. Oh, I've read the NTSB report for this accident a few times so I am well aware of the conjecture about other aircraft. All
48 JettaKnight : I don't see what the big deal is. It's been done before and documented in the pilot for the NBC drama series 'San Francisco International Airport' (1
49 Post contains images SJCRRPAX : You sure that's not "The High and the Mighty" with John Wayne helping to bring a DC-4 into SFO from Hawaii with only 30 gallons of fuel left?
50 Kelebek : my dad tried his luck in FRA once with a PA28 (well, little bit bigger than the cessna but still) - it's possible (for sure) but they put you in holdi
51 KevinSmith : There was a similar thread the other day. I think guys in that one said it all depends upon how busy the airport is, can you afford the landing fees,
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