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Who Pays For A New Aircrafts Paintjob?  
User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1424 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

Hi after the new 9W's livery, which came out straight from Seattle a day or so ago in full colurs (new colours i must add), i was wondering, the painting Boeing does, does it pay for it itself or does the airline pay for it? Is it a considerable amount? And last of all, does Boeing or Airbus offer free painting as an incentive to an airline for purchasing their aircraft?

nitin


I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDALCE From Netherlands, joined Feb 2007, 1656 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

I would say that a paintjob is included in the price


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User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting DALCE (Reply 1):
I would say that a paintjob is included in the price

I would imagine so, unless the customer wants really weird or one-off liveries, in which case I would expect a surcharge.

Of course, then there are the various aircraft that have left Seattle with Dreamliner liveries. I would guess that Boeing has stated that they'd repaint it for free in time.

[Edited 2007-03-26 21:01:54]


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User currently onlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

The customer pays for it of course. It may be in the price, or it may be quoted separately, but at the end of the day as they say "theres nowt for nowt"

User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
"theres nowt for nowt"

Or as American Economics teachers/proffessors profess "There's no such thing as a free lunch"

The airline pays for it somehow.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7253 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
I would imagine so, unless the customer wants really weird or one-off liveries, in which case I would expect a surcharge.

 checkmark 

Many of the 'special' liveries are 'invented' long after the aircraft is ordered. And I cannot really imagine Boeing or Airbus saying 'Great. Much prefer this multi-colour one off colour scheme to your normal Euro-white livery. And of course we will do it for no extra charge even though it contains more than a dozen colours.'


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2968 times:

The first factory paint job is included in the original price of the aircraft with very exact drawings (blueprints) made to insure all the operators aircraft are the same. Should the buyer make changes to the livery for later delivery aircraft the charge for the changes would have to be re-negotiated.

User currently offlineIwok From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
Hi after the new 9W's livery, which came out straight from Seattle a day or so ago in full colurs (new colours i must add), i was wondering, the painting Boeing does, does it pay for it itself or does the airline pay for it?

Pax do.... or in the case of UA: bilked investors  Wow!

filler

iwok


User currently offlineKL5147 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2005, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The first factory paint job is included in the original price of the aircraft with very exact drawings

KLM had their MD-11's delivered during the 1990's in primer colors, and had the paint-job done in their AMS facilities. So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

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User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

Oh no. Usually, airlines cannot afford to pay the paintjob. Do you have an idea about the price of an airliner even without paintjob???!!! The paintjob is paid separately by the Salvation Army. That’s why you see them at supermarket, malls and so on. Didn’t you notice that they wear old uniforms? As an alternative, the airlines do Pop songs for example “Do they know its paintjob time” and use the money to pay the paint at the local building centre in Seattle.

User currently offlineBHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 8):
So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

Well, the Dutch do have a certain reputation for, umm, shall we say being somewhat frugal....!!  Wink

What about AA a/c though? They still must be laquered or something. Does that cost a lot less?



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User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 9):
Oh no. Usually, airlines cannot afford to pay the paintjob. Do you have an idea about the price of an airliner even without paintjob???!!! The paintjob is paid separately by the Salvation Army. That’s why you see them at supermarket, malls and so on. Didn’t you notice that they wear old uniforms? As an alternative, the airlines do Pop songs for example “Do they know its paintjob time” and use the money to pay the paint at the local building centre in Seattle.

really?? wow i never knew tht... Actually i did notice all airline f/a's wear old tattered uniforms, and i love Take Thats song "Paint.... my love". Never knew it was about a plane.... do u know which airline they work for?
lol



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineMCIGuy From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 10):
What about AA a/c though? They still must be laquered or something. Does that cost a lot less?

I'd be interested in knowing this as well. I always assumed they were just literally buffed aluminum. If so, I couldn't imagine the RWB stripe and tail paint costing that much.  

PS> All bets are off when AA orders the 787 though, 787's must be painted.  Wink

[Edited 2007-03-27 22:12:23]


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User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 11):

You cant be serious....  sarcastic 



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineHmmmm... From Canada, joined May 1999, 2104 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2361 times:

Ordering a plane is no different than a car. Does GM charge you extra to sell you a painted car, or does it come already painted for that price?


An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1616 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2328 times:
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Quoting KL5147 (Reply 8):
KLM had their MD-11's delivered during the 1990's in primer colors, and had the paint-job done in their AMS facilities. So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

In the latter years of McDonnell Douglas production, the California EPA, to reduce pollution and improve air quality put a limit on the amount of airplanes than could be painted in house at Long Beach. MD had to fly some airplanes in their green primer out of state to be painted and then would return back to Long Beach for final completion and inspections before being turned over to the customer.

In this case with KLM’s MD-11’s, I would assume that KLM got a reduction on the price and had their own paint shop paint the airplanes and MD did not have to bother ferrying the airplane and pay another shop to paint the airplane.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
All bets are off when AA orders the 787 though, 787's must be painted.

Watch them try to get them clad with aluminum sheeting.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Quoting KL5147 (Reply 8):
KLM had their MD-11's delivered during the 1990's in primer colors, and had the paint-job done in their AMS facilities. So did they get them 'cheaper' then other customers?

See that M on the rudder, painted by Douglas exactly where the paint (livery) blueprint said it should be. While KLM may have got a price break for taking their MD-11's unpainted they paid to have the paint (livery) blueprint created when they ordered the MD-11.


User currently offlineA380US From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 14):
Ordering a plane is no different than a car. Does GM charge you extra to sell you a painted car, or does it come already painted for that price?

the problem is first when was the last time you decided to buy a car and they offered you a first class ticket to see the new in class cars
also when was the last time you paid i dont know 1,000,000 (is that it?) to paint your car?



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User currently offlineChuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
PS> All bets are off when AA orders the 787 though, 787's must be painted.

weeeeeeeell...

technically, you could ask for it to be non-painted I guess!
you'd still get some lacquer on top, or maybe you could go with the natural carbon look.

actually, a composite "natural look" aircraft could probably look quite trendy and high tech (don't forget some nice shiny drilled aluminium rudder pedals lol)

at least, you'd not have any issues with corrosion


User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1633 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 10):
What about AA a/c though? They still must be laquered or something. Does that cost a lot less?

The operating costs of AAL's a/c are considerably less than a painted counterpart, especially when you take into consideration the weight drop. Having said that there is a higher cost involved when polishing and washing is involved. AAL a/c are in fact highly "buffed" to that showroom shine they are famous for; and to great effect. Another good thing with polishing is that you don't release any VOCs into the atmosphere, on application, which has been the case with most paints.

Quoting Hmmmm... (Reply 14):
Does GM charge you extra to sell you a painted car, or does it come already painted for that price?

Actually, if GM don't do this I'd be very shocked! Most, if not all European car manufacturers do it, especially with the metallics. (Thinking of going for the pearl or Harlequin paint job - Better get your wallet out!). Basically, metallic paint is not included in the car's price; it's an added extra.
Spencer, ex painter.



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User currently offlineChuchoteur From France, joined Sep 2006, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Quoting Spencer (Reply 20):
Another good thing with polishing is that you don't release any VOCs into the atmosphere, on application, which has been the case with most paints.

... it is also chromate-free
(LOL)

I do believe AA aircraft have a coat of varnish to prevent oxydisation though.
It is still lighter than 2-3 layers of paint.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting Spencer (Reply 20):

Of corse paint costs more. But they wont SELL you an UNPAINTED car. The point he was trying to make was that when you order your car you pay for the paint you want.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1934 times:

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 15):
In the latter years of McDonnell Douglas production, the California EPA, to reduce pollution and improve air quality put a limit on the amount of airplanes than could be painted in house at Long Beach.

Kind of off topic, but is this the same reason UA stopped painting airplanes at SFO (before they got cheap and outsourced it all)?


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1616 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1825 times:
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Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 23):
Kind of off topic, but is this the same reason UA stopped painting airplanes at SFO (before they got cheap and outsourced it all)?

It could be.

California has the strictest emissions standards of all the states. The state could have required UA to lower their emissions from the paint shop and UA found it cheaper just to fly the airplanes out of state then put up with the state regulations.

One time we had our JetStar at a repair shop in VNY for a fuel boost pump change. The owner of the repair shop told me that every time he saw the state EPA or whatever they were called drive up on the ramp he would get nervous because at the slightest sign of any violation they would fine the hell out of him. That is how strict California is and this was in 1981 and I would imagine it is even worse now.


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