Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Russia Threatens To Ban BA, IB, 4U...  
User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 16124 times:

Some 2 weeks ago, Russian aviation authorities threatened to ban several European airlines for "safety violations" like "dangerous maneuvers" or flying over restricted areas.

Now Russian newspaper "Kommersant" says to have received a list with 16 airlines in question. This is said to include British Airways, Iberia and Germanwings.

BA is said to have violated Russian airspace when trying to avoid a zone of bad weather. IB is accused of having caused an incident of getting dangerously close to another aircraft due to flying on a wrong level.

In total, Russian authorities accuse the 16 airlines to have caused 18 safety violations and 5 flights over restricted areas from June 2006 to February 2007.

Can't help but that does not sound that much to me.

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3564 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 16118 times:

All I can say is reciprocity... If they claim that crap, lets ban Aeroflot and Pulkovo, too...

User currently offlineRongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 15921 times:

The trouble with reciprocity is that all the power lies with Russia. Consider the number of airlines that overfly Russia on Europe to East Asia routes.

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 15881 times:

Oh yes, the Russian bureaucracy at its best.

What have we done to cause this? Has Pulkovo been banned by the EU? Or the "airlines" of Gasprom and Rosneft?


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3054 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 15873 times:

If BA does get banned, will they be able to overfly Russia on Eastern Asian routes. If not, that will be a huge blow to BA

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months ago) and read 15759 times:

Theres ways round russia if they're playing games (adds about 90 mins to HKG maybe 2 1/2 hrs to NRT), Aeroflop etc will struggle to go anywhere worthwhile if banned from the EU.

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months ago) and read 15711 times:

Quoting ZakHH (Thread starter):
Some 2 weeks ago, Russian aviation authorities threatened to ban several European airlines for "safety violations" like "dangerous maneuvers" or flying over restricted areas.

This is just ludicrous bureaucracy! How many Russian airlines are they threatening to ban from flying? We all know what the safety & maintenance records of some of the smaller Russian airlines is like!


User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 15570 times:

hold on everyone...this is just a newspaper article, nothing official has been done yet, so everyone calm down, this kind of "threat" always happens, it's sabre rattling...

Russia makes a lot of money from the 1st freedom so highly doubt that they will block out those airlines, because the effects afterwards would be hell for everyone....

usually if you violate a safety zone or procedure your airline gets it, not the entire industry, so as i said, just chill  Smile



The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15400 times:

well look how fast russia backed down when canada reciprocated Air Canada's ban on using russian airspace, Aeroflot had to fy around canada to get to the west coast of the USA costing millions, soon after the ban on aeroflot from canadian airspace russia backed down and allowed ac access at fair prices

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15298 times:

Yeah I doubt this will happen.It would become a MAJOR diplomatic dispute between Russia and the EU and would serve no ones interest. Russia just likes to play games as posted above. Russia has more to loose and there are a few neighbours around Russia who would love to see SU banned.

User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3054 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15274 times:

Quoting Hotelmode (Reply 5):
90 mins to HKG maybe 2 1/2 hrs to NRT

However, if only BA and a few other airlines get banned from Russian airspace, then they will have a difficult time competing with the likes of JL, NH, CX, etc. as they will get that route done in 90 minutes less (HKG) and 210 minutes less (NRT) according to your estimations.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5746 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15188 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 9):
Yeah I doubt this will happen.It would become a MAJOR diplomatic dispute between Russia and the EU and would serve no ones interest. Russia just likes to play games as posted above. Russia has more to loose and there are a few neighbours around Russia who would love to see SU banned.

Yeah and then they might cancel the A350 contract and go with the 787!  Big grin  Wink



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineRammstein From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15145 times:

This:

Russian aviation authorities threatened to ban several European airlines for "safety violations" like "dangerous maneuvers" or flying over restricted areas.

and this:

Quote: Jurnalo
Russia is likely to widen a long-running row over a ban on Polish meat imports by extending the trade embargo to foodstuffs from other European Union states

Does someone notice a common pattern?  scratchchin 


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15074 times:

If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26909 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15014 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 11):
Yeah and then they might cancel the A350 contract and go with the 787!

I doubt it , they could always build a copy of the TU-350XWB ........lol

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 12):
Russia is likely to widen a long-running row over a ban on Polish meat imports by extending the trade embargo to foodstuffs from other European Union states

We could ban Russian Vodka but I guess we would be the loosers there if we did.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...

But SU's fleet is better maintained than PIA's!!!


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4870 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15002 times:

A friend of mine who works in ATC says he often has to deal with Russian pilots who don't speak any lanaguage except Russian to any degree of understandability. That would strike me as being far more dangerous than a small incursion into restricted space to avoid bad weather. Let's see what comes of this.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineRammstein From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 14956 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
A friend of mine who works in ATC says he often has to deal with Russian pilots who don't speak any lanaguage except Russian to any degree of understandability.

Do they have to use light gun signals to communicate? Big grin


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3564 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 14899 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...

Airlines are banned because of safety reasons, not because of fleet age. Iran Air regularly flies its 747-100 to Europe, so does UPS.

The only planes banned are those which gave safety concerns or noise issues. A ban without reasons would never survive a court ruling in Europe.


User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14758 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 10):
However, if only BA and a few other airlines get banned from Russian airspace, then they will have a difficult time competing with the likes of JL, NH, CX, etc. as they will get that route done in 90 minutes less (HKG) and 210 minutes less (NRT) according to your estimations.

Having checked the charts, HKG could be operated avoiding Russian airspace via Ukraine, Georgia and the Central Asian republics. probably no more than 30 mins extra (which is how much faster a 747 is over a 777/330 anyway which no pax ever notice) NRT is an issue but JAL/BA are now partners so codesharing is no issue.

As I said its much much more of a problem for an airline who gets most its international revenue from the EU or by overflying it on its way elsewhere.


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 14582 times:

Can't believe some of you take this sort of crap for real.

About as credible as LH announcing 5 daily nonstop A380s to the moon starting tomorrow.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13866 times:

Ha,ha ha!!
Russian aviation banning international carriers for safety violation.
Now that's hilarious... how hypocrites !


User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13784 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 17):
Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action? There's a familiar ring to this...


Airlines are banned because of safety reasons, not because of fleet age. Iran Air regularly flies its 747-100 to Europe, so does UPS.

The only planes banned are those which gave safety concerns or noise issues. A ban without reasons would never survive a court ruling in Europe.

What makes you think the Russians don't have legitimate reasons for their actions. You mean to tell me that western countries can do no wrong.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13718 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 13):
If the EU can ban airlines based on the age of the aircraft flown, why are people condemning Russia for taking similar action?

Well the MAJOR difference is that the EU ban is also effective intra-EU, whereas Russia potential ban on BA or IB smells with double standards and hypocrisy considering the junk that is still used by Russian airlines. If they want to be taken seriously with their "concerns" then they should clean up their own mess when it comes to safety standards (or rather complete lack thereof) first.
Of course I don't think you actually believe the issue in question is aviation safety (or food quality)?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 14):
We could ban Russian Vodka but I guess we would be the loosers there if we did.

There's plenty of finest Danish, Polish, Swedish or Finnish brands


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13616 times:

The EU threatens every single Russian operator for things like missing handbooks of the Tupolev-154 in English (even though a Russian handbook exists for a Russian plane flown by Russian pilots).

Why should Russia not be allowed to speak up when airlines like Germanwings or Iberia almost crash their aircraft into each other in Russian airspace (with a possible damage to the people living there)?

Think about it before you start a "let's bash Russia" again...



none
User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13614 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
There's plenty of finest Danish, Polish, Swedish or Finnish brands

You're forgetting the best tasting vodka out there, the french Grey Goose.


25 MotorHussy : Sounds like Russian ATC may have helped cause these "violations' to some degree; they're not world renowned for being top of their game now are they?
26 Post contains images SKY1 : If IB is banned to fly Russia, then SU will ban to fly Spain for sure. I agree. Russia has a sad record of air crashes due to a poor safety; definite
27 Aeroflot777 : EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As some people have said, everyone needs to majorly CALM DOWN. It won't happen. Russia is just speaking up equally lik
28 UAL777 : You are right. My dad flies for UA and recently in his words had his airplane inspected by the French version of the FAA, and they in his words "desc
29 Aeroflot777 : Poor safety?! Mhm... what an uneducated comment. For the amount of flights and conditions that the planes were flown in, I want to see the Western co
30 Post contains images OV735 : Some of you are taking this wayyy too seriously. This is a Russian news report, which already should tell a thing about its credibility. Secondly, eve
31 IBERIA747 : What about an Aeroflot Tu-154 making 2 or 3 attempts to land on a taxiway at BCN despite the fact that other aircraft were using the taxiway? Forgot
32 TommyBP251b : We will have WW 3 then! Or the second cold war. What did 4U do in order to stand on the list?
33 Aeroflot777 : Don't even worry, probably nothing serious, whatever it was just gives a reason for Russia to fight back for the sh*t they were given all along by th
34 Post contains images IBERIA747 : To add to my previous reply, I completely agree with this.
35 SKY1 : Anyway, a thing is "accuse". Another one different is a threaten to ban operations in Russia. If it finally happen, reciprocity must be used.
36 Abrelosojos : Why don't some people on this board calm down? We do not know all the facts to the case and its seems prejudicial to comment on the intent of the Russ
37 AirEMS : Watch out what you say you could end up like some spies and journalists from Russia have! Do any US Airlines fly to Russia? -Carl
38 RJ100 : I never said Russian airlines are perfect...but the rest of the world isn't either. I talked about the fact that the EU is pushing things into ridicu
39 ZakHH : Calling Russian airlines and / or aircraft unsafe in general is certainly wrong and indeed hints a certain arrogance. Especially Russian aircraft are
40 Awthompson : I guess that considering the spartan conditions in which Russian airlines have operated over the years, the sheer size of Russia and the vast number
41 FlyMD : I really don't see the Russian government banning these carriers. While inability to fly into or over Russia would definetly cause some issues for the
42 Schipholjfk : This is a sheer example of Russia gradually falling into a rogue nation state displaying "thuggish" behavior. It's simply a reflection of Putin mental
43 Post contains images SKY1 : I bet for the EU-Russia cooperation in many fields. But such cooperation is not possible if there is not a mutual trust, and when there is a threatene
44 Post contains images L410Turbolet : I think we understand that perfectly well. Threats from Kremlin, coming left right and middle have been almost a daily occurrence recently. Welcome b
45 Aeroflot777 : Delta flies to SVO from both JFK and ATL, they are thriving on the flights. Very good routes for the airlines. It's not like it's unfair to us. I for
46 MotorHussy : Fellow WESTERN Europeans?? BTW, how much foreign currency does Russia earn from other countries' airlines using its airspace, ATC and airports? Presu
47 KevinSmith : I find it ironic that the Russians are complaining of safety violations.
48 Dallasnewark : At this point, amount of foreign currency earned from allowing Russia to use its air space, is very minimal at best. As long as the oil and natural g
49 Aeroflot777 : I know you do, but many unfortunately don't. Well let's not blame it all on Russians ok? I study aviation and am currently taking a class about ATC.
50 BAxMAN : It's quite right that Russia should wish to prevent the likes of BA flying in and out of their territory with plutonium onboard.
51 Post contains images RJ100 : I was talking about the fact that the pilot's English was not the reason for the crash in my opinion but that officially everyone blames them for tha
52 SKY1 : Well, your statement is pretty exaggerated. There is not a single reason at all Russia may be blamed in the international community. But threats are
53 OA260 : Err I dont mean to be rude either but you have the Russian flag next to your handle so one would presume you were reffering to ''Russia'' when you me
54 Glideslope : 5 years ago perhaps, but no longer. Russia is like a 16 year old who just inherited 100 million dollars. IMO, everyone should thake this threat very
55 OA260 : Its actually very sad than anything else. People being poisened and journalists being murdered and TV stations being threatened!!! Its the normal eve
56 Coa747 : The stuff that has been coming out of Russia these days is scary. While the world has been paying attention to activities of the US in Iraq the Russia
57 Smashme33 : Heh, I should return my tickets then!
58 OlegShv : Relax, nothing is going to happen. BA, IB, SU, and all others will fly as they did. Not counting several posts from regular Russia-bashers on this for
59 Aeroflot777 : It's kind of mind-blowing actually, but at the same time EXTREMELY funny to read. Let them continue being afraid, and pretend like the ban will happe
60 Hjulicher : I'm completely disgusted with practically everyone on this forum. Reading through the posts, it seems as if us (Anetters) are fighting our own war aga
61 HZ747300 : Off topic, I thought they wrote correctly, but they did not speak it correctly. But then again, it was an Austrian who told me that. Russia can do ba
62 Post contains images Aleksandar : Yes, it is an easily forgotten fact, Unfortunately. Exactly my point. It is almost impossible to compare let's say Tu-154 with B-737 or even better B
63 Post contains images ZakHH : Relax. Not everybody here is ignorant, or aiming for bashing certain countries. But there's a lot of wrong things going on all over the world. And I
64 Post contains images Aleksandar : Yes, it was exactly my point, so we agree
65 RJ100 : That's not true...I wrote in a post above that I am Swiss and then was referring to my fellow Western Europeans who very often have an arrogant attit
66 Post contains images RJ100 : Because I like the country and the people there.
67 OA260 : LOL....ok thats a good enough reason. I too like the Russians and the country and I dont like what the government is doing to it. Some things are ver
68 Post contains links Columba : http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...ichten-2007-03/artikel-7977208.asp Sorry but poor training by airlines such as BA, IB, AB and Germanwings as a
69 Post contains images Aleksandar : Come on guys, can't you see it? Even if there is something in that story, try to look at it from different perspective. Why BA and IB and not AF and K
70 Aeroflot777 : It's not. But it's enough to use it as a means to fight back against all the negativity that has been thrown into Russia's face by the EU. Many of yo
71 MotorHussy : Well clearly it's not western. Switzerland is in central Europe and the person is Russian (eastern Europe) - what the eff is wrong with that? Hey Tov
72 Post contains images Aeroflot777 : Um... perhaps you should take another look at it as well. Now don't simply look and make your comparisons with the Western world. Read up on some pre
73 Aleksandar : Exactly, such comparison is unfair and completely wrong. One cannot even compare safety records from early years of post-Soviet era when there was a
74 Aleksandar : Well, I do have a question about Russian aviation? Do they plan to switch from metric system to a more commonly used one soon?
75 Post contains images RJ100 : The East end of Europe are the Ural mountains in Russia. Switzerland therefore is clearly in Western Europe. Central Europe are the countries such as
76 MotorHussy : Agreed, my bad. And I thought geography was my strong suit. But do remember, the dude flies a Russian flag for his identity. MH
77 RJ100 : I do...I don't understand why my flag pisses people off and why this is an issue here. I only said that in Western Europe things are not as perfect as
78 Tu204 : The State? Try Aeroflot. The proceeds from overfly rights go into Aeroflot's pocket because the overfly agreement dates back to the USSR days. In any
79 Tu204 : By the way, I have an explanation for the violations in flight levels. You see, in the Russian Federation, we use the metric system. In western europe
80 OlegShv : There is a special table showing metric flight levels and the corresponding flight levels in feet, which pilots usually have on board. They don't need
81 WildcatYXU : As a matter of fact, the geometric centre of Europe is near Kremnica, Slovakia. It would be so easy with the glass cockpits nowadays. Heck, even my c
82 JAL : If Russia bans some airlines from flying into Russia, Russian airlines should also be ban, it's only fair. Before Russain authorities look at internat
83 Aeroflot777 : Very ignorant. Do you fail to read the replies in the thread before posting?
84 LTU932 : One question regarding the flightlevels in Russia: Why don't they switch to the imperial system? I mean, it something like that may be difficult becau
85 Tu204 : It has been this way since the beginning so it is highly unlikely that it will change. Also, the imperial system is not used for anything in Russia e
86 Awthompson : Metric is the 'modern' system. Miles*, yards, feet and inches are the old imperial system which metric replaced. On this count Russia are modern and
87 Post contains images OV735 : Russia switching it's aviation to imperial system is about as sensible as the US doing the same to its monetary system. You know, 12 pennies per cent
88 LTU932 : Then this leads the question of why other countries haven't followed suit. I mean, the majority of countries, including my native Germany, where the
89 TheSonntag : I think WW2 has quite a lot to do with it. It boosted aviation extremely, yet the countries which used metric usually lost, while most planes came fr
90 RIXrat : Don't understand you on that comment, OV735. The U.S. monetary system has always been the decimal system. But, on the other hand, the UK was a real c
91 Post contains images OHLHD : Well.....this is really sad that the flag on top matters to anybody. Hehe, I hear the same when I tell friends my travel plans. But honestly this sho
92 OV735 : Well, obviously then the Joe Bloe can't really count money either, because that's all decimal system. Big corporations must love these sort of people
93 Tu204 : Which is, in my opinion why our authorities are threatening to ban the above mentioned airlines from Russia. But I am pretty certain this will not ha
94 CV880 : The USA very backward with respect to using metrics....especially when weight/balance is computed in pounds on domestic flights and kilos on internati
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UK Threatens To Ban PIA posted Sun Jul 10 2005 15:28:47 by Aseem
Collenette Threatens To Ban El Al From Canada posted Sat Oct 25 2003 22:15:06 by B747-437B
BA Threatens To Pull Out Of Canada posted Tue May 2 2000 18:31:30 by Seat 1a
Inebriated Mexican Pax Threatens To Blow IC Flight posted Thu Mar 22 2007 17:05:08 by Adriaticus
A380 Back To LHR, BA Taking An Interest? posted Sun Mar 18 2007 01:18:57 by Pogo
Plans To Ban Decade Old Planes In Indonesia! posted Wed Feb 28 2007 09:01:57 by Peh
EU Set To Ban Pakistan International posted Fri Feb 23 2007 17:11:46 by Airpearl
LH Threatens To Move Hub To Zurich posted Tue Feb 20 2007 17:19:17 by Lumberton
Russia/China To Join Building 275~350-seater Plane posted Sat Nov 4 2006 00:14:23 by Jimyvr
Ex NW VP To Join BA As Non Exec Director posted Wed Sep 27 2006 15:44:17 by Boo25