Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Boeing And British Airways Complete Deal For Four  
User currently offlineTi717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 227 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13302 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070327/sftu040.html?.v=90


LONDON, March 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA - News) and British Airways have finalized an order for four Boeing 777-200ER jetliners valued at more than $800 million at list prices. British Airways also secured options for four additional 777-200ERs. British Airways said it is using the 777s to expand its long-haul fleet.


Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13068 times:

Wonder why such a small order when they are looking to replace older long haul aircraft? Wonder if Boeing could/would do a deal in a package for say: 777-200/-300 and 747-800.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 13004 times:

8 aircraft fit their bridging requirement, right? I assume this fills the RFP for that small segment, and that means no A330, which wasn't likely anyway.

Now the real fun starts, as they also have the RFP for fleet replacement going forward.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12906 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Yes, BA reversed themselves on the "bridge order winner will determine the replacement order winner" statement and added additional 772ERs without also committing to the 787.

User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12863 times:

I think this could be a cunning move by BA. This will make Boeing squirm a bit as I think they will be confused abotu what BA are playing at. I still tyhink it's a pretty level playing field as far as BA are concerned

User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12637 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Now lets get to the real issue, how many 748 is BA going to buy. 4 777 is about as exciting as another flight to Paris, its a non event. The new long haul fleet is a big event, one the whole aviation world is waiting for. Given Wille Walsh's Airbus leanings at Aer Lingus if it wasn't for the problems the A350 and A380 are having I would have bet Airbus.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12595 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Yes, BA reversed themselves on the "bridge order winner will determine the replacement order winner" statement and added additional 772ERs without also committing to the 787.

We don't know that. We only know that this order was announced today, and as a bridging order, it's not a lot of fanfare.

This doesn't mean that they have chosen or not chosen the 787, only that they chose not to announce anything at this time.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 12316 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
This doesn't mean that they have chosen or not chosen the 787, only that they chose not to announce anything at this time.

True. My comment was just that, originally, BA stated that whomever won the bridging order would also win the replacement order. So if the 772ER was chosen, so would the 787 and if the A330 was chosen, so would the A350XWB.

However, when BA determined the 772ER was the better bridging option, period, they had to "break" the link so as to still maintain some upper-hand in negotiations by publically proclaiming they are still evaluating both families.


User currently offlineHB88 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 817 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12156 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
Now lets get to the real issue, how many 748 is BA going to buy.

Hopefully zero  Smile

Throwing a cat a amongst the pigeons with the pro-Boeing-militia... personally, if the pax comfort reports from the 380 ELFs and proving flights are anything to go by, Boeing will have to do something pretty stunning with the 748 to beat it.

I also have to say, after seeing the beest at Filton over the last couple of days in all-white livery, it looks like a big, flying milk bottle...


User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11186 times:

I understood that BA had got the 4x 777's only as a bridging order and wil be deciding upon Airbus or Boeing for the main longhaul order.
I was dead against the A380 for BA but after seeing the trip reports etc on here of the proving flights Im now hoping BA get a couple of them.

Quoting HB88 (Reply 8):
if the pax comfort reports from the 380 ELFs and proving flights are anything to go by, Boeing will have to do something pretty stunning with the 748 to beat it.

Completely agree with you!!!

Lee



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineEbbUK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11186 times:

Quoting HB88 (Reply 8):
I also have to say, after seeing the beest at Filton over the last couple of days in all-white livery, it looks like a big, flying milk bottle...

Yum yum! Congrats to all at Filton for building wings that have blown all predictions out of the water, and bettered them. A testament to brilliiance and the application thereof!

With regards to BA! A message to Willie Walsh, "You've not eactly handled matters very well since you've been in charge, strikes and crosses (Chritian ones) to name but two. Pensions was not your fault, I get that. Yet you have the opportunity to do something extraordinary, something that will prove what the Board of Directors saw in your potential to make BA even greater than it is. You know what that is? Order the A380! See your dominance in the market place grow to another level as you become even more competitive with other airlines. Think you got it in you?"

What you reckon Willie read it (pun intended)?


User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10952 times:

There was a previous thread about BA getting some SAA 747s. Does this 777 order have anything to do with this or is the SAA 747 deal out tof the question now.

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10852 times:

Quoting HB88 (Reply 8):
Throwing a cat a amongst the pigeons with the pro-Boeing-militia... personally, if the pax comfort reports from the 380 ELFs and proving flights are anything to go by, Boeing will have to do something pretty stunning with the 748 to beat it.

The comfort advantage of the A320 over the 737 is at least as great as the comfort advantage of the WhaleJet over the JumboJet, yet the 737 holds its own in sales. Why? Because the operating costs are about the same. Looking at the weight and SFC advantages the 747-8 has over the WhaleJet suggests advantage Boeing in the marketplace. Orders so far support that hypothesis. Last year the 747 outsold the Whalejet 72 to 7 -- and 12 of those where 747-400Fs.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6991 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9727 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
8 aircraft fit their bridging requirement, right? I assume this fills the RFP for that small segment, and that means no A330, which wasn't likely anyway.

I wouldn't rule out the A330 yet. These four 777s won't do much to replace BA's 767s. If BA select the A350 (a big IF, I admit) the A330 could still see service in BA colours.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
BA stated that whomever won the bridging order would also win the replacement order

I'm not sure this was "the bridging order".

My understanding was that:
1. BA would choose either Boeing or Airbus for the major long-haul replacement order.
2. If Boeing was chosen then 777s (more than 4+4) would be ordered to tide them over.
3. If Airbus won then A330s would come in to hold the fort until the A350s arrived.

I don't think any of these decisions have yet been taken.

If anything, the 4 new 777s are just a small increase in capacity pending the major decision later this year.

I could be wrong but my interpretation of events is that these four 777s don't tell us much about BA's longer term plans and that both Airbus (offering the A330, A350 and A380) and Boeing (offering the 777-200ER, 777-300ER, 787 and 748) still have everything to play for.

I might also observe that Boeing's press release http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2007/q1/070327c_nr.html states that: British Airways has a fleet of 43 Boeing 777s making it Europe's largest operator of the popular jetliner. But, if I'm not mistaken, AF already have 44 in service with several more to come soon. Am I wrong or are Boeing a little bit behind the curve?  Wink


User currently offlineHighFlyer9790 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9211 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 13):
My understanding was that:
1. BA would choose either Boeing or Airbus for the major long-haul replacement order.
2. If Boeing was chosen then 777s (more than 4+4) would be ordered to tide them over.
3. If Airbus won then A330s would come in to hold the fort until the A350s arrived.

I don't think any of these decisions have yet been taken.

If anything, the 4 new 777s are just a small increase in capacity pending the major decision later this year.

I could be wrong but my interpretation of events is that these four 777s don't tell us much about BA's longer term plans and that both Airbus (offering the A330, A350 and A380) and Boeing (offering the 777-200ER, 777-300ER, 787 and 748) still have everything to play for.

 checkmark  as much as i would like to see the 77W and 747-8 win the order, it is still premature to say who will win the final order.



121
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7321 times:

I also see this nice order just gives BA another year of time to decide. I do see as alternative
a) A dozen A380 + two dozens of 777
or
b) three dozens of 748.

BA currently isn't in a state to make any large order. They got this small one through to ensure they do not run out of planes. There will be 744s in Heathrow for a very long time - I bet longer than DC9s with Northwest.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6991 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7286 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 15):
BA currently isn't in a state to make any large order.

Why would you say that? They have announced that they are on the brink of just such a large order. They even specified which models were under consideration. A significant order seems all but certain in 2007.


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4518 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7092 times:

Presumably these are Trent 800 birds?

Here's the link off the Boeing website:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2007/q1/070327c_nr.html



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineAirSpare From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6938 times:

What is this "bridging order business? It seems like an a.net myth?

No where in the article is bridging mentioned, it was a purchase for 4 and 4 options.

My guess is BA has received permission to increase freqeuncies to eith LAD or LOS. I can't remember which, I think they have been trying to do dailies to one or the other. (Or both.)



Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6991 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6924 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 17):
Presumably these are Trent 800 birds?

Not necessarily. BA have 772ERs with both GE and RR and have announced that they are negotiating with both companies. Could go either way.


User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4518 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6849 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 19):
BA have 772ERs with both GE and RR and have announced that they are negotiating with both companies. Could go either way.

I know that and that is why I asked the question, but I was suggesting that they might be RR because the YMM* series of BA 772s were delivered more recently than the VII* series, and the former are equipped with Trent 800s.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6991 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6822 times:

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 20):
I was suggesting that they might be RR because the YMM* series of BA 772s were delivered more recently than the VII* series, and the former are equipped with Trent 800s.

Indeed and I suspect RR have the edge but the YMM* and the VII* fleets serve different routes. Which engine BA choose might depend on where they want to fly these planes.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31387 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5432 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 18):
What is this "bridging order business? It seems like an a.net myth?

No where in the article is bridging mentioned, it was a purchase for 4 and 4 options.

BA in the past has said they were looking at a "bridge" order between their current generation widebody twins and their next generation, which they did not expect to start taking delivery of until 2013. The 777-200ER and A330-300 were both mentioned as the two options being considered.

So it may very well be that these 772ERs are just for immediate expansion (though I have not read any such statements to that effect in the past six months on this board), but that BA also took additional options means I would not be surprised if BA will only take 772ERs up until they take delivery of their next generation widebody twins (be it the 787 or the A350XWB) so, technically, the 772ER will serve as a "bridging order".  Smile


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8690 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

Wasn't this announced earlier? If not, congrats to BA and Boeing on another successful order.

Quoting PM (Reply 13):
But, if I'm not mistaken, AF already have 44 in service with several more to come soon. Am I wrong or are Boeing a little bit behind the curve?

Correct Sir. They have 44 in service with more to come I think.

http://airfleets.net/flottecie/Air%20France-active-b777.htm

MCOflyer

[Edited 2007-03-28 15:40:24]


Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineStarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

BA is in a mess.
Soon it will lose it's strangle on New York to London. The masses of 747's on this route will be downsized to 777's or 787's quite quickly.

However I would expect BA to offer a large capacity on long haul routes SFO/LAX/SEA/YVR/BKK/SIN/SYD/HKG as an A380 requirement.

I expect an A380 order, and a larger 787 order.

A350 doesnt fit BA's long haul fleet currently, and familiarity of the 787 and 777 will make sense.



So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
25 Post contains images Presidential : What comfort advantage ??? I will take the leather seats on a Souwest flight any day over a NWA or USAir A320 .... I have always understood comfort t
26 Floridaflyboy : I too believe that there is a very real chance of this order splitting between the two manufacturers. I guess only time will tell.
27 American 767 : I would not rule out the A380 for British Airways future long haul fleet, but I think that with this order for four additional B777 aircraft Boeing mi
28 Birdseed : BA's RR and GE 777s serve the same routes; it's just that there are a few routes which can only be flown by the RR aircraft due to more restrictive s
29 HB88 : Space, quiet, storage room. Other than that, they're pretty much on a par. ... sigh... I know it's hard to resist the temptation to take an easy shot
30 HB88 : You are quite right. But I was talking purely from the point of view of a passenger.
31 Post contains images PM : You hit the wrong button. It wasn't me that made the comment you quoted.
32 VV701 : This order has nothing to do with fleet replacement. A decision on fleet replacement required that they first had the specification of the A350 1000.
33 Post contains images PM : Actually, second largest. AF have 44.
34 Bongodog1964 : Wishful thinking on your part I'm afraid; LHR will always have runway capacity constraints; which gives an incentive to operate planes carrying large
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Frontier - And British Airways posted Sat May 27 2006 03:26:06 by Mariner
British Airways' Pilots Prepare For Long Strike posted Thu Feb 9 2006 18:27:01 by Concorde001
Finnair And British Airways posted Mon Sep 12 2005 00:33:42 by Thomsonfly
Boeing And Japan Airlines Complete 787 And 737 Agr posted Tue May 10 2005 02:42:25 by USAF336TFS
Lufthansa And British Airways Into DTW posted Mon Mar 5 2001 23:39:14 by Asdf
British Caledonian And British Airways posted Fri Jan 26 2001 02:48:32 by DETA737
British Airways Fires Pilots For Drinking Before F posted Thu Dec 21 2000 20:57:46 by Tripleseven
Atlas Air And British Airways Ops Questions. posted Thu Aug 24 2000 22:47:22 by CX747
Posh Spice And British Airways posted Mon Apr 24 2000 22:23:18 by Eg777er
British Airways Livery Questions For You Old Timer posted Sat Nov 20 1999 19:41:44 by JWM AIRTRANS