PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6714 posts, RR: 66 Posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6629 times:
It appears to have been deleted (???) but there was a short-lived thread here for a few minutes about the possibility of BA bidding for bmi in the wake of Open Skies.
It would seem to be a valid subject for discussion. Let's try again.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6591 times:
Wouldn't this be more of a move for BA to secure more slots at LHR in the wake of Openskies? Somehow I don't see any other reason that would make a takeover of BD interesting for BA.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6508 times:
Quoting Danny (Reply 5): Actually SAS is about to sell their 20% stake at the end of the year.
And barring a takeover by BA, could LH take over the stake SK is giving up, or will there be a new investor, such as VS (and in a way also SQ, which owns 49% of VS).
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6449 times:
I dont think the regulators would have an issue if the monopoly criteria is not hub-specific. I think the rules prevent market monopoly to prevent artificial/uncompetitive pricing, but I'm not sure they would rule that an LHR short haul monopoly of BA buying BD would give BA a market advantage which would make it uncompetitive. Supposition of course - who knows?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
I think LH would see hell freeze over before they let this happen, I cannot see Bmi selling out to BA, particularly if they were not interestde in selling to VS and lastly how the hell would the regulators allow this, it has to be anti-competative!
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5216 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6035 times:
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 9): I think LH would see hell freeze over before they let this happen, I cannot see Bmi selling out to BA, particularly if they were not interestde in selling to VS and lastly how the hell would the regulators allow this, it has to be anti-competative!
I can't comment on the anti-competivness of this take over as far as actual airservices go, but on the question of BA getting BMIs slots I doubt it could be legally seen as anti competive. As i understand BA has about 36% of LHR slots as compared for much greater percentage of slots held by LH @ FRA, AF @ CDG & KLM @ AMS. I think this would be a powerful legal argument.
Lite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
On the one hand as mentioned, British Airways would have, following a merger with bmi, a hub presence more typical of the other major European airlines, would bring back BMED markets back under BA jurisidction and stabilise the shorthaul market more. The problem is, I cannot see the British regulatory authorities allowing this, especially as BA would have no interest in bmi' vast regional operations, considering that BA have only just managed to get rid of their own. I would prefer to see a Star presence being kept at LHR with bmi, but also agree that BA could probably do a lot with bmi under their wing.
Jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7340 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5769 times:
Heathrow is a unique airport, comparisons to Air France, KLM and Lufthansa are not apples to apples. Any airline wanting to fly to CDG or FRA can, simple as that, there are no lack of slots. Given the UK's legacy of Empire and the English language it no accident LHR is what it is as far as so many North Americans, Asians, South Africans, Aussies and Indians wanting to go to London.
Then you have the people of non-English legacy, whose main "Linga Franca" is English, doing business and going on holiday to London, the Japanesse and the the rich petro-people. More japanesse go to London on holiday then any other place in Europe as well as business. LHR is a creature of one in its mix of customers. And they sad land in central Tokyo was valuable.
StarGoldLHR From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5667 times:
I think it's more likely a buy out by Ryanair of that 20% than BA..
Ryanair's already got a track record
seriously... SK will probably sell it's 20% stake at a nice profit as BD's value has just increased considerably following the open skies announcement.
However as 50%+1 share is owned by 1 man, and 30% by Lufthansa, as a privately held investment, BD is not massively attractive. 20% buys no voting rights, or majority stake.
LH is simply not going to sell it's 30% (As LH has a carte blanche agreement to buy the 50%+1 share from Sir Michael Bishop at an already contractually agreed price in the future).
Who ever buys that 20% will have to accept 20% with no share growth or voice in the company, and an 80% +1 share ownership with LH in the future.
Most likely that 20% will go to an investment bank than another airline, and that bank will probably be a long term financial investor.
Taking this however, LH and "the other party" + Michael Bishop will have to considerably invest (maybe as much as a $1bn) to finance a long haul growth of BMI from LHR.. that's $500mn from Sir Michael Bishop.. has he got that kind of cash... No, which means borrowing, or selling part of his stake.. and giving up his control. Because of this I dont expect event will occur for some time yet.
1 old man running the company will always constrain that companies potential and growth.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5622 times:
I cannot see this getting past the MMC. A VS/BD merger would be far more favourable and retain competition with BA. It's not just about LHR slots, a BA take over would eradicate instantly any competition on domestic routes into LHR.
PM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6714 posts, RR: 66 Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5144 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 16): I cannot see this getting past the MMC. A VS/BD merger would be far more favourable and retain competition with BA.
It may depend whether competition these days is measured in narrowly national terms or continent wide. Domestically, customers in the UK have many options courtesy of EasyJet, Ryanair and whoever. Across Europe customers can transit through many airports to reach UK regional cities. I've flown from Brussels to Bristol, from Amsterdam to Humberside and from Paris to Birmingham. In fact, living in Zurich, one airline that would not get my business when flying to Glasgow, Leeds-Bradford, Newcastle or any of the above would be BA. The lack of competition argument doesn't hold water.
Aircellist From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1417 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5046 times:
Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 9): I think LH would see hell freeze over before they let this happen
This expression always reminds me of Dante's Inferno, which is, in fact, centered upon an frozen lake...
More seriously, this buying out would remind me of the BCAL takeover, or, in France, when AF bought IT and UTA. Regulators, at the time, did not object much, I believe... At least, not as much as when BA tried to forge a close alliance with AA.
Steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8802 posts, RR: 19 Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4865 times:
Hmmm. I think I would be more in favor of a VS takeover of BMI. If BA gets them, then it's definitely going to mean one less airline in Star Alliance, and I think BMI is the only UK airline in it. BA I believe is not only in One World, but wasn't it one of the founding airlines of One World?
However, I still want BMI to go it alone. I keep hearing that they're going to buy 3 more A330s for US expansion out of LHR...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
AIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2361 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19): Hmmm. I think I would be more in favor of a VS takeover of BMI. If BA gets them, then it's definitely going to mean one less airline in Star Alliance, and I think BMI is the only UK airline in it. BA I believe is not only in One World, but wasn't it one of the founding airlines of One World?
3 UK airlines competing at LHR is too much. If VS was to buy BD, it will create an even bigger competitor to BA which will make life harder for both of them when AF, LH or KL enjoy monopolies at their respective hubs. I truly think that BA/BD would be a better deal for the UK aviation industry. VS can still manage it on its own.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3924 times:
Quoting PM (Reply 17): Quoting EDICHC (Reply 16):
I cannot see this getting past the MMC. A VS/BD merger would be far more favourable and retain competition with BA.
It may depend whether competition these days is measured in narrowly national terms or continent wide. Domestically, customers in the UK have many options courtesy of EasyJet, Ryanair and whoever. Across Europe customers can transit through many airports to reach UK regional cities. I've flown from Brussels to Bristol, from Amsterdam to Humberside and from Paris to Birmingham. In fact, living in Zurich, one airline that would not get my business when flying to Glasgow, Leeds-Bradford, Newcastle or any of the above would be BA. The lack of competition argument doesn't hold water
Thats basically my argument yes.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
Lite From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3823 times:
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 16): A VS/BD merger would be far more favourable and retain competition with BA.
That really depends on Virgin's eventual stance to shorthaul operations. Virgin, like British Airways, are justafiably London centric, which means in the event of any merger, the considerably large regional operations of the bmi group will either be sold individually - which in my opinion they are too weak to stand on their own relying heavily on the bmi brand - or would be merged into another growing carrier. Virgin have publicly stated they are not interested in the shorthaul market, preferring to channel people onto the railways, but they also greatly appreciate bmi's domestic feed, so I'd find it interesting to see if a BD/VS merger went ahead, how the future company would look. Whatever happens, given that BA's initial potential bid is over £1bn, I wonder if Virgin have that kind of spare cash to just buy the company, let alone integrate it.
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 16): It's not just about LHR slots, a BA take over would eradicate instantly any competition on domestic routes into LHR.
I agree that into Heathrow, British Airways would have a monopoly on domestic flights, but it's worth considering that this doesn't mean passengers are without choice on getting to London - as mentioned there are numerous low-cost options into London's other airports, or any choice on competing to a hub as many carriers like KLM fly from the regions to their hub cities in mainland Europe. Also consider the increased competition from the train, and direct flights from regional airports, there is simply too much capacity on these journeys, which a BA purchase would eradicate.
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 15): 1 old man running the company will always constrain that companies potential and growth.
Sir Bishop is "only" 65 and seems to be full of passion and excitement for the industry. Whilst I'd agree a more charismatic and influential majority shareholder would work wonders for bmi, he has weathered plenty of storms, with his ambition having been longhaul flights from LHR, specifically across the Atlantic. I'm very enthusiastic for seeing bmi remain independent, but the airline will be taking on the might of established and poweful players with huge pockets and assets at their disposal, and I'd worry bmi would be swept up by the competition as they were when they entered the Indian market.
Whichever company takes over bmi, we can be sure the regions will lose out.
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3777 times:
Quoting Lite (Reply 22):
Whichever company takes over bmi, we can be sure the regions will lose out.
But I think we have to face it, that the regions will loose out anyway, even when BMI stays independent. The new open sky offers them a lot of new possibilities, and have to get the slots from somewhere.
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 18 Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3750 times:
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 15): 1 old man running the company will always constrain that companies potential and growth
I am not sure that I agree. An "old" man will have years of experience and some old people have the combined intelligence of several younger people. Besides which, bmi can trace its origins back to 1938 although the airline as we know it today was formed in 1959 (as Derby Airways) becoming British Midland Airways in 1964.
Since 1964 many great names in British civil aviation have disappeared forever, e.g. British Eagle, Court Line, Laker, Air Europe, Dan-Air, British Caledonian, Britannia, British Air Ferries, Air UK etc. Apart from British Caledonian, all these airlines were headed up by a "younger" man running the company. bmi has survived whilst other airlines, headed by younger men, have fallen by the wayside.
bmi today has a turnover of over £900m, carries in excess of 10.5m passengers annually, holds 12% of total slots at LHR, and has a fleet of 42 aircraft and +4,000 employees, which make it a fair sized airline. The "old man" in charge has been awarded a CBE and has been knighted for his services to the industry. I would rather have been holding shares in bmi than BA (or VS) when "open skies" was announced.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
25 Lite: Indeed from LHR connections, but I'm talking about direct services from the regions to other destinations. Unlike Virgin and BA, bmi have two success
26 EDICHC: Ahem, if such a merger went ahead you try finding competition to BA from GLA/EDI/ABZ/BFS to LHR!
28 Lite: To Heathrow yes, but LHR isn't the only airport serving London. People wanting to travel from Scotland or Belfast (with bmi mainline using BHD whilst
29 EDICHC: Not if you are connecting with *A at LHR! I (well we as in the wife & I) recently relocated to NZ (just after the August security clampdown) and had
30 8herveg: I think bmi regional only operate as a one-class. Not enough room on an ERJ to operate 2-class.
31 Lite: I'm not proposing to have all of the answers for every individual's needs, but generally there is a huge amount of capacity in the UK market which co
32 Lite: bmi regional has a business class and an economy class on all of their scheduled routes, whilst the seats are the same in either class; the business
33 EDICHC: It's not the independence of bmi I am defending here, it is the anticompetitiveness of a BA take over of bmi that I am opposed to. A Virgin/bmi merge
34 Jfk777: The only viable British solution to the BMI dilema is Virgin Atlantic buying BMI. BA buying BMI would be like UA and AA or ANA and JAL merging. If Ba
35 BCALBOY: Don-t understand yr point here. You can travel EDI/LHR on BA and LHR/AKL on NZ and interline yr baggage . Interlining isn-t dependent on carriers bei
36 Lite: Exactly, many airlines who are in competing alliances still have interlining policies which would allow you to continue to make your current itinerar
37 Kiwiandrew: how about the other way around - BD buys VS ? don't forget that for VS openskies is at least as much threat to their main income stream as it is an o
38 Lite: I think this is the best solution, but I don't think you need to kill anybody to do it. You could essentially merge virgin atlantic and the bmi group
39 Edina: Cabin seat map for the EMB135 here with C class clearly shown...... http://www.flybmi.com/images.net/v2/...sc/seatmaps/embraer135business.gif Also fr
40 AirNZ: First of all, Bmibaby does not fly from BFS to any London airport! Also, I note with great interest the apparent theme emerging from some posters tha
41 Pilot21: All very interesting points, but as was mentioned by 1 poster above, and glossed over, LH have an option on Sir Michael's stake at a fixed price of ap
42 Pilot21: Interesting news from the Times re: BA and BMI, as we know BA just want BMI's slots, and it may have got some from them! London Times reports British
43 Lite: The initial poster implied that bmi flew to Belfast International which they do not, bmibaby uses this airport from their regional bases whilst bmi m
44 PanAm_DC10: That is confirmed. BA have bought 51 LHR slots from BMI for US$58.7m. It will be condirmed on BAs website shortly http://www.ba.com By Emmet Oliver M
45 Lite: Surely these slots are worth far more than that? Considering that bmi group are now being estimated at worth over £1 billion and Iberia at £4 billi
46 Kiwiandrew: I would think that LH , as the second biggest shareholder in BD , must be absolutely furious over this . It does seem a very odd decision as the slots
47 Pilot21: Does anybody think this was related to the sale of Bmed to BMI? BA said it would allow the sale go through and not compete on the routes with it's own
48 PanAm_DC10: I would agree. The price quoted is as sourced from the Financial Times report posted by Pilot21, BA in their statement have refused to disclose the p
50 BCAL: I cannot remember where I read it, but was it not part of the agreement when bmi took over BMed that BMed would remain a BA Franchise until the end o
51 EDICHC: Can't comment about ANZ to AKL, I was going to CHC Last August I travelled EDI-LHR-SIN-CHC. Possibly beacuse of the security problems (and potential
52 AlanUK: I also believe this to be part of the BMED agreement that BA struck with bmi a while back. Also, you have to keep in mind that bmi isn't loaded with
53 Dsa: Bmi has always positioned itself as the challenger airline to BA, as already said SMB would stop at nothing to resist a BA takeover and there would be
Sponsor Message: 
From India, joined Feb 2005, 6714 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, 
From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3482 posts, 
From Australia, joined Dec 2006, 2701 posts, 
From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1154 posts, 
From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7340 posts, 
From Heard and McDonald Islands, joined Feb 2004, 1529 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1417 posts, 
From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2361 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
