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Emirates: The 100 A/C Order Not This Year  
User currently onlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

EK president said that the order of 100 frames from Boeing or Airbus for expansion wouldn't take place in 2007, it was rumored that the order will take place in Paris Air Show.

read the full story
http://www.reuters.com/article/Middl...Investment07/idUSL2766130620070327

he threatened Qantas again lol, what a game between those two airlines

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1832 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):
EK president said that the order of 100 frames from Boeing or Airbus for expansion wouldn't take place in 2007, it was rumored that the order will take place in Paris Air Show.

.
Well that news will put out the rumours of the Paris Air Show order. Maybe EK is willing to wait for AIrbus to finally complete its design of its A350XWB. Watch out 2008 for EK's order of 100 A350's



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
Watch out 2008 for EK's order of 100 A350's

What makes you so sure it will be for A350s?

- n1786b


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=con...id=apGl_EgygZrQ

Quote:
By Massoud A. Derhally March 26 (Bloomberg) -- Tim Clark, President of Emirates, the largest Arab airline, will visit Airbus SAS in France next week before deciding whether to order as many as 100 Airbus' A350 or Boeing Co.'s 787.

I said it in the other thread, Clark is saying a lot, but isn't acting. He's losing credibility fast and if he isn't going to do what he says both Boeing and Airbus will start taking Emirates less serious. They will freeze their designs regardless of the wishes of Emirates.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

It seems that EK is very reluctant on the 787 and favors the A350. They would have placed an order for the 787 by now if they would really want it.
On the other hand EK really has no pressure of buying new aircraft. They have plenty of 777-300s coming and their fleet consisting of A330s, A340s, 777-200s and 777-300s is one of the most modern fleets around. Other airlines using older 747, MD 11s, A300s, 767s and IL 96s have a bigger need to replace their fleet of 787s or A350s



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21527 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Maybe EK still has no idea what it's going to do with 43 A380s and adding 100 more aircraft to their fleet on top of the nearly 100 777s+A340s is starting to look a little crazy.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
Well that news will put out the rumours of the Paris Air Show order. Maybe EK is willing to wait for AIrbus to finally complete its design of its A350XWB. Watch out 2008 for EK's order of 100 A350's

well son, as N1786b said , what make you so sure that it will be A350? is it because Qatar will buy EADS!!


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
It seems that EK is very reluctant on the 787 and favors the A350. They would have placed an order for the 787 by now if they would really want it.

 yes 

Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
On the other hand EK really has no pressure of buying new aircraft.

 yes 
They understand that aviation business is close to the pick of the cycle. Aircraft are at premium currently. If you have no pressure you'd better wait.


User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
It seems that EK is very reluctant on the 787 and favors the A350. They would have placed an order for the 787 by now if they would really want it.

What they want to see is the 787-10 - and how do you know they are "reluctant"?

I mean, they are taking a very close look at what Airbus has to offer - especially as they have an "extra 25% off" coupon code thanks to their A380 order. Wouldn't you do the same?

IMO, it is not a question of what A has to offer, it is a question of how much does Emirates trust A to deliver on its promises.

- n1786b


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 1):
Well that news will put out the rumours of the Paris Air Show order. Maybe EK is willing to wait for AIrbus to finally complete its design of its A350XWB. Watch out 2008 for EK's order of 100 A350's



Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 3):
I said it in the other thread, Clark is saying a lot, but isn't acting. He's losing credibility fast and if he isn't going to do what he says both Boeing and Airbus will start taking Emirates less serious. They will freeze their designs regardless of the wishes of Emirates.



Quoting Columba (Reply 4):
It seems that EK is very reluctant on the 787 and favors the A350. They would have placed an order for the 787 by now if they would really want it.

I think people seem to be reading a lot into this and ignoring the big event that occurs this year: flight testing of the 787. I've argued that it makes little sense for an airline who is seriously evaluating both the A350 and 787 to make a decision at this point given that hard data will soon be available about one aircraft and the other aircraft is so many years away. Airlines will have a better idea of what the capability of the 787 will be, and will be able to use that information to determine the suitability of the 787 and how much they should pay for it or the A350. Also the data from 787 testing will help Boeing refine the design of the -9 and set final specifications for the -10.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1832 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 3):
I said it in the other thread, Clark is saying a lot, but isn't acting. He's losing credibility fast and if he isn't going to do what he says both Boeing and Airbus will start taking Emirates less serious. They will freeze their designs regardless of the wishes of Emirates.

Well, as other people said Clark is in no hurry to make an order. The A350s are supposed to be replacing the A330's and some 777's in the near future. So, why SHOULD he even act now? He still has plenty of time before those A330 become ancient.

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 6):
well son, as N1786b said , what make you so sure that it will be A350? is it because Qatar will buy EADS!!

Well, I am sure that it will be A350 since AIrbus will give EK a hefty discount on the new models, and since the 787's are already fast outselling production slots like pancakes, it will be reluctant to give out AS MUCH OF A DISCOUNT as Airbus with its A350. Basically, EK will look at the best deal, and its the A350.

And Qatar will buy a stake in EADS inshalla, and EK's order will be for the A350. :P



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1922 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
Well, as other people said Clark is in no hurry to make an order. The A350s are supposed to be replacing the A330's and some 777's in the near future. So, why SHOULD he even act now? He still has plenty of time before those A330 become ancient

Agree, but you can't go running around and say for more than two years that you are going to order 100 planes. I agree waiting for more hard data is fine, but it still looks like EK's decision is far away. Why keep popping up in the media about ordering 100 planes since 2004 if you are not going to do it anytime soon? You lose credibility in the eyes of a lot of people and in the end also from your to-be supplier. Airbus and Boeing will continue to specify their designs and will listen to Emirates to certain extend. There are other airlines out there who they need to supply, it's not all about Emirates.

I'm still amazed about how Boeing and Airbus are "depending" on Emirates. It's just one airline, one part of the market, although I must admit a growing and rather successful part of the market.

Emirates is playing this game out to the end and I must give them credit for that, but stop saying you are about to order if you're really not.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4568 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
Well, I am sure that it will be A350 since AIrbus will give EK a hefty discount on the new models, and since the 787's are already fast outselling production slots like pancakes, it will be reluctant to give out AS MUCH OF A DISCOUNT as Airbus with its A350. Basically, EK will look at the best deal, and its the A350.

This is exactly what I am thinking

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
I think people seem to be reading a lot into this and ignoring the big event that occurs this year: flight testing of the 787.

I don´t know if EK really is interested in that event. The first model that will be flying is the -8 in which EK is not interested.
As many as 500 aircraft have been sold already before the plane took off so many airlines seems to trust Boeing on what they deliver why would EK not do the same ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineERAUgrad02 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

Wonder if boeing is still working with them on 747-8i. This has been very uiet for a while.


Desmond MacRae in ILM
User currently onlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1083 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
So, why SHOULD he even act now? He still has plenty of time before those A330 become ancient.

12 months in aviation industry is not "plenty of time"

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
I am sure that it will be A350 since AIrbus will give EK a hefty discount on the new models

but not this model, Airbus want to recover from their continuous losses and want to cover the A380 expenses.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4394 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 14):
but not this model, Airbus want to recover from their continuous losses and want to cover the A380 expenses.

I believe they will for various reasons:
1) Boeing outsold Airbus in the widebody market with the 777 and 787 winning a huge order by Emirates will be seen as sign of trust and will likely lead to follow on orders by other airlines especially if the order is placed by such a devoted 777 customer as EK

2)Compensation of the A380 is not settled and Airbus can offer them a much better as they could give any other airline and Boeing could give EK.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineGbfra From Germany, joined Sep 2006, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 11):
Agree, but you can't go running around and say for more than two years that you are going to order 100 planes

Why not?
Do you think he cares what people are writing about him on the internet?

There's a simple reason why he hasn't announced this big order yet: He has been waiting for information about the A350. Like some other airlines.



The fundamental things apply as time goes by
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 8):
I mean, they are taking a very close look at what Airbus has to offer - especially as they have an "extra 25% off" coupon code thanks to their A380 order. Wouldn't you do the same?

Wait a minute now, that's not even a fact. Clark himself said the A380 delay compensation has nothing to do with any other deal and will be dealt with separately. Don't know where you got your 25% off figure.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8371 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4075 times:
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EK has such a huge influx of airplanes, after flying to Sydney three times daily and LHR 6 times daily how many more places can they fly to? They fly to almost every major city from New Zealand to the UK and Japan to Africa, while they are expanding in the Americas to Houston and Sao Paulo. I can see them flying to Canada, the US west coast, Chicago & Buenos Aires but more then that in the Ameicas is doubtful. There are are only so many flight to India, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore and the secondary cities of the UK EK can fly to.

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2682 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4060 times:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18):
EK has such a huge influx of airplanes, after flying to Sydney three times daily and LHR 6 times daily how many more places can they fly to? They fly to almost every major city from New Zealand to the UK and Japan to Africa, while they are expanding in the Americas to Houston and Sao Paulo. I can see them flying to Canada, the US west coast, Chicago & Buenos Aires but more then that in the Ameicas is doubtful. There are are only so many flight to India, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore and the secondary cities of the UK EK can fly to.

next EK destination: TLV?Who knows?



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 12):
I don´t know if EK really is interested in that event. The first model that will be flying is the -8 in which EK is not interested.

All the larger models performance estimates will be affected by the -8's real numbers.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineJayinKitsap From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 769 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3911 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Maybe EK still has no idea what it's going to do with 43 A380s and adding 100 more aircraft to their fleet on top of the nearly 100 777s+A340s is starting to look a little crazy.



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18):
EK has such a huge influx of airplanes, after flying to Sydney three times daily and LHR 6 times daily how many more places can they fly to? They fly to almost every major city from New Zealand to the UK and Japan to Africa, while they are expanding in the Americas to Houston and Sao Paulo. I can see them flying to Canada, the US west coast, Chicago & Buenos Aires but more then that in the Ameicas is doubtful. There are are only so many flight to India, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore and the secondary cities of the UK EK can fly to.

Most hubs combine long and short haul flights to get enough traffic. However, a long haul to long haul hub just doesn't work if the hub is too far off of the direct path. Adding 4 to 5 hours over the non-stop time is close to the practical maximum. Dubai is well located for Europe to Middle East; India; Asia; NZ, Africa to the same; North & South America to Middle East, India, parts of Africa. But Europe to Africa, Europe to South America, Austrailia to either SA)">NA or SA. etc.

What is odd to me about EK is the absense of short haul or smaller aircraft. Currently the 332 is the smallest in the fleet with nearly all new orders being for 777 and 380 sized planes. EK has 42 more 777's to be delivered and 12 748F . Also it has 43 380's coming. If each new route (or added frequency) takes 2 planes on average, that is 40 new cities served.

What I think EK is missing is the PR of having a contested RFP like Qantas was for the 787. Boeing's orderbook is much fuller now and Airbus wants more time to get their 350XXL specification finalized. So the prices they are seeing might be a lot higher than they were used to paying. Also, operations might be telling them that the yields are just horrible on all of the parked planes waiting for crews.


User currently offlineAirFrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

It looks to me that between BA's sudden decision to push the contest out and EK's, Airbus has gone to carriers and said "the specs for the 350-1000 won't be available for 6 months" hoping to freeze any contracts out there in place. Not a new tactic, in fact Airbus has already one it twice just with the 350.

User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 17):
Wait a minute now, that's not even a fact. Clark himself said the A380 delay compensation has nothing to do with any other deal and will be dealt with separately. Don't know where you got your 25% off figure.

Don't take it literally - sheesh - notice the quotes?

I'm just saying that the A380 fiasco and severely damaged reputation, A will have to bend over backwards to regain their confidence and actually order a plane that is still on the drawing board (v 7.0 IIRC). In other words, a "extra 25% off coupon."

Nothing like hefty discount to paper over bad feelings and missed schedules. It has worked before.

- n1786b


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10733 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Maybe EK still has no idea what it's going to do with 43 A380s and adding 100 more aircraft to their fleet on top of the nearly 100 777s+A340s is starting to look a little crazy.

Every boom must come to an end and I agree to add 100 more (of which many will replace the early-build 777s of cause which already now are becoming "old" by Emirates standards) on top of the vast numbers still on order might make even the megarich Dubai sheiks think wether they really need to hurry now. Maybe they switch some 773ER orders to 748Is? And maybe they wait for more detailed figures for the A350. It could be, is even likely and vital for the program´s success that this aircraft will become a real 777 killer. And what Emirates certainly doens´t want is second-best.


25 Dutchjet : While the never ending drama concerning EK (and QR for that matter) and the 787/A350 is getting a bit tiresome.....it does make sense. With the 787 ga
26 Post contains images Jacobin777 : There are a lot of routes in all of the Americas EK can fly to...... ....a lot of it will be for aircraft replacement also (such as the A332, A343, B
27 Jimyvr : Emirates was planning start phasing A330s by 2010.
28 JAAlbert : EK said earlier that under no circumstances will it accept other planes at a discount as compensation for the 380 delay. Further, given that Airbus i
29 Dutchjet : I assume that you meant ""phasing OUT"" the A332s by 2010.....yes, I too read that somewhere....I guess that wont be happening, but the plan does see
30 UAEflyer : if Israel accepted the Arabs peace initiative believe me EK will fly there maybe 3 times daily!! Both Americas are great opportunity for EK, they can
31 EI321 : Well that wont happen!
32 Stitch : A few things: First, it is likely EK does not have deposits down on the 787, since if they want the 787-10, that model will EIS in 2012 or later when
33 BlackKnight : Hmmm. Interesting? 1- The 787 second line won't come up until 2010-11 2- EK does have AB in a great buyer position over the A380. 3- AB keeps revising
34 Post contains images FXramper : Still, the Dubai government-owned carrier was unlikely to make any order this year, he said. There is no evidence to support the title of this thread.
35 EI321 : It wont happen that soon, if ever happens. Y1 without a doubt. Whether Y3 happens before 2020 will depend on how the 777-300ER & 747-8I sell over the
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