Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Airbus CEO Sees 20 New Orders For A380 This Year  
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15936 times:

EADS co-chief executive Louis Gallois, who is also CEO of Airbus said he still expects to land a total 20 new orders for the A380 super-jumbo in 2007.

In an interview with regional daily La Depeche du Midi, Gallois also repeated criticism of EADS' dual-CEO structure, but warned that a move to a 'more normal' form of governance 'will take time.

http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nach...ichten-2007-03/artikel-7991721.asp


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
203 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15903 times:

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
EADS co-chief executive Louis Gallois, who is also CEO of Airbus said he still expects to land a total 20 new orders for the A380 super-jumbo in 2007.

That's what they said last year (before all of the delays), hopefully they're going to be ok this year - I'm looking forwards to Paris air show this summer - I think it may be described as an "orgy of spending" like 2005 was!


User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15879 times:

That sounds like a very careful estimate, just like their A350XWB estimate, unless he's talking about net orders (that would mean 30, after the cancellation of UPS). That the A380 isn't entering commercial service before the end of the year might play a role that they forecast that 2007 will be another quiet year for A380 sales. Wonder who he has in mind. QR, LH and EY could add a few. QR's CEO is on record saying he will excercise his 2 options and is considering ordering more. There's got to be a new customer aswell. BA perhaps?


SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15876 times:

Since he is talking about new orders I don´t believe he meant orders from existing customers such as a follow-on order by LH and QR.
For new customers I can think of 10 aircraft for BA and maybe another ten for CX as a possibility.

[Edited 2007-03-30 09:22:11]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15866 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
I believe 10 aircraft for BA are a huge possibility and maybe another ten for CX.

and the follow-ons for LH and QR - fianlly the A380 will start moving again in sales terms (possibly!)


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15856 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 3):
I believe 10 aircraft for BA are a huge possibility and maybe another ten for CX.

CX have said that they won't be ordering much for a year or two - though I see them as an A380 operator in the medium to long-term.

The twenty could easily be 10 for BA and 10 options for LH. That seems quite a conservative prediction to me.


User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15857 times:

Only new orders?
Okay, this is one big order (only BA comes in my mind) and two or three small orders (SAA, Chinese carriers,..). I think this could be a very difficult mission for Airbus and the A380 program.
The only order for the A380 this year could be BA, and maybe some options from LH. The big US-Carriers will not order the A380, CX also not this year, the Japanese carriers also not, the big european carriers has ordered the A380, also the Asian carriers.
Only SAA could be an option for Airbus.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15829 times:

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 6):
the big european carriers has ordered the A380, also the Asian carriers.

Asiana has ben touted as a possibility and then there is Air China. On Taiwan, might China Airlines go for it one day?

Then there are "out of the blue" orders. Who saw Kingfisher coming?

With a BA order this year (which is looking increasingly likely) 20 orders shouldn't be hard to achieve. Without one it'll be a lot harder.


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15773 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
Then there are "out of the blue" orders. Who saw Kingfisher coming?

We should of predicted it though, Kingfisher order 5 of everything that Airbus makes  Big grin  Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15767 times:

I think there are a bunch of candidates out there:

Qatar
Etihad
Lufthansa
British
China Eastern
Air China
China Airlines
Asiana
Jet Airways
Cathay

and many more.


Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 1):
That's what they said last year (before all of the delays), hopefully they're going to be ok this year - I'm looking forwards to Paris air show this summer - I think it may be described as an "orgy of spending" like 2005 was!

I think this one will be a lot better than 2005. Can't wait until it starts.


User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15712 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
Asiana has ben touted as a possibility and then there is Air China. On Taiwan, might China Airlines go for it one day?

Then there are "out of the blue" orders. Who saw Kingfisher coming?

With a BA order this year (which is looking increasingly likely) 20 orders shouldn't be hard to achieve. Without one it'll be a lot harder.

Okay, Asiana is a possibility, but only a small one. Air China is a big B747 operator and Air China is very happy with the B747. I think Air China is the next B747-800i costumer.

I agree, a "out of the blue" order is always a possibility, but this will be a small order and not 20 aircrafts.

I think BA is the big question, if BA order the A380 this year, it could become a fine year for the A380. If not and BA will order the B747-8i, this year will be again a lost year for Airbus and the A380.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15701 times:

Thoroughly discussed in this thread, now archived, several weeks ago.

Perhaps the use of the Search Engine might have been in order?

Leahy Expects To Sell 20 More A380s In 2007 (by Leelaw Feb 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15682 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Thoroughly discussed in this thread, now archived, several weeks ago.

Perhaps the use of the Search Engine might have been in order?

Leahy Expects To Sell 20 More A380s In 2007 (by Leelaw Feb 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

John Leahy is not the Airbus CEO. So it's a new statement from a new person and should be able to have its own thread.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10103 posts, RR: 97
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 15650 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Thoroughly discussed in this thread, now archived, several weeks ago.

The article was probably newsworthy for this particular quote.......

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
In an interview with regional daily La Depeche du Midi, Gallois also repeated criticism of EADS' dual-CEO structure, but warned that a move to a 'more normal' form of governance 'will take time.

although nobody's seen fit to comment on it yet.
Be interesting to see how he goes about getting his way.

Regards


User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 15604 times:

Qatar = no new order
Etihad = no new order
Lufthansa = no new order, but LH will change some options to order this year
British = the big question this year, could be a great order for Airbus, but I think BA will go with Boeing.
China Eastern = could be, but only a few.
Air China = will go to Boeing
China Airlines = will go to Boeing
Asiana = could be, but only a few
Jet Airways = ´could be, but only a few.
Cathay = not this year


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 15559 times:

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 14):
Qatar = no new order

At least they might convert two options.

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 14):
Etihad = no new order

Why not?

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 14):
Air China = will go to Boeing
China Airlines = will go to Boeing

They both have A330s and A340s, why would they have to go Boeing? Especially when Airbus has the monopoly with the A380?

Besides, all your "only a few"s might add up to a decent number.


User currently offlineDeaphen From India, joined Jul 2005, 1427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 15495 times:

What about Air India? With them going full swing for a new look.. it may be possible?

nitin



I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 15495 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
At least they might convert two options.

I agree, I think Qatar will convert their option to orders and maybe they will order a few A380 more.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
They both have A330s and A340s, why would they have to go Boeing? Especially when Airbus has the monopoly with the A380?

Air China also operate the B747 and they were very happy with the performance of their fleet and this is the reason why Air China will go with Boeing.
For China Airlines the A380 is to big in my opinion, the B747-8i will fit better in their route network.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
Besides, all your "only a few"s might add up to a decent number.

Without a question, but this airlines had to order the A380 first and the we can add a decent number to the order book of Airbus.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6951 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15371 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
The article was probably newsworthy for this particular quote.......

Quoting Columba (Thread starter):
In an interview with regional daily La Depeche du Midi, Gallois also repeated criticism of EADS' dual-CEO structure, but warned that a move to a 'more normal' form of governance 'will take time.

although nobody's seen fit to comment on it yet.

Well, I'll comment on it. The "normal form of governance" encompasses a lot more than dual CEO's; it should also mean being run like a business instead of a political football.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15369 times:

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 16):
What about Air India? With them going full swing for a new look.. it may be possible?

Sure. Afterall, the Airbus regional manager for India did say a while ago that they're talking to 2 Indian airlines who might buy A380s. Air India should be one of them, most likely Jet Airways the other.



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15365 times:

Why would any airlines order an A380 before it enters service? I believe that there was one year (think it was the year before EIS) in which the A330 got just 1 order!

User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15285 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
The article was probably newsworthy for this particular quote.......

Forgeard argued that EADS should have just one CEO and that should be Forgeard. He didn't get anywhere with that. If Gallois wants the structure changed and is willing to give up the job to see it through, then he might get somewhere. He should end up as EADS's Chairman of the Board for pulling that off, if successful.

The man well-positioned to be the first CEO (not co-CEO) of Airbus is Leahy, being neither French nor German.


User currently offlineWAH64D From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 15256 times:

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 6):
Only new orders?
Okay, this is one big order (only BA comes in my mind) and two or three small orders (SAA, Chinese carriers,..). I think this could be a very difficult mission for Airbus and the A380 program.
The only order for the A380 this year could be BA, and maybe some options from LH. The big US-Carriers will not order the A380, CX also not this year, the Japanese carriers also not, the big european carriers has ordered the A380, also the Asian carriers.
Only SAA could be an option for Airbus.

The Pacific rim carriers flying to Europe can't afford to be without the A380. Their economy will drive the world economy for the next 50 years and the associated increases in demand cannot be met at European hubs with more landing slots. Only bigger aircraft can accomplish this.

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 10):
Okay, Asiana is a possibility, but only a small one. Air China is a big B747 operator and Air China is very happy with the B747. I think Air China is the next B747-800i costumer.

SQ and VS are also very happy with the B744, didn't stop them ordering the A380.

Quoting CrazyHorse (Reply 14):
British = the big question this year, could be a great order for Airbus, but I think BA will go with Boeing.

Are you remembering that BA fly from the most slot constrained hub in the world? A380 is perfect for BA operations to Asia in relatively small numbers (no more than 12-15).



I AM the No-spotalotacus.
User currently offlineTrent900 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15179 times:

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Why would any airlines order an A380 before it enters service?

Why would any airline order any new type before EIS. I think any new type needs a certain number to gain industrial launch?

And of course the earlier you order the the sooner you recieve the aircraft once it enters service (delivery slots).

D.


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 15164 times:

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 23):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Why would any airlines order an A380 before it enters service?

Why would any airline order any new type before EIS. I think any new type needs a certain number to gain industrial launch?

Im refering specifically to the case of the A380 though. There is no rush to order the aircraft at the moment after all the delays, and I think most airlines are apprahensive, and will remain so until it enters service.

Remember that the 777 recieved zero orders in the year prior to its EIS, and I think the A330 only recieved one order in a similar year.

[Edited 2007-03-30 12:36:49]

25 Trent900 : I see where your coming from now. Hopfully we might see some operating data soon from the route proving, unless anyone already has any info. D.
26 OA260 : Yes a new thread was needed as the situation and person making the statement is totally different. I think BA will go with the A380 . I think it was
27 Zvezda : Many airliners suffer a hiatus in orders for the year or so before EIS and then enjoy a surge of orders following EIS. In the case of the WhaleJet, i
28 EI321 : Tha 777 & A330 are examples.
29 SEPilot : Well put. I'll join the Whalejet critic's circle and predict that sales will remain anemic. I'm prepared to admit being wrong if they take off. My pe
30 Post contains images Boeing767-300 : But not the 787 which has and probably still will gain more sales prior to service. The key here is customers are waiting to see exactly how A380 per
31 WAH64D : I'm very pleased you're prepared to admit it when you're wrong. All too many on here are not grown up enough to do that. For what its worth and after
32 EI321 : Guys what is the basis for your predictions? 20 frames would equate to one new order from an airline like BA, or the firming up of options from exist
33 Zoom1018 : In fact I see nothing wrong the Whalejet calling... I also do not see big sales for the Whalejet as Airbus has always been expecting. And the Daddy c
34 WAH64D : BA - 10 frame minimum LH - 10 more NW - at least 10 aircraft but possibly not until 2008
35 WINGS : As an aviation enthusiast, it's frustrating to read such comments. Why not just support aviation in general? In regards to new A380 orders in 2007, I
36 SEPilot : Its a WAG (wild a** guess). I just don't think that there are enough airports that will accommodate it or routes dense enough to make it profitable.
37 SEPilot : The politically correct police (PCP) would crucify you for this remark.
38 Post contains images Dutchjet : Queen of the Skies.....hardly. The A380 will continue to sell in small numbers, some to new customers, some to existing customers. Just as the 748I w
39 EI321 : Thats an old name that is never really used generally. Superjumbo is the name that has stuck to the A380 in the Media.
40 Burkhard : Why do I never read about the Japanese here? 747-400 is too small for them, they even use some domestically.
41 Stitch : BA doing a split A388 and 748 order (20+20) makes sense, and could support the claims by both Airbus and Boeing that their respective flagships will s
42 Dutchjet : We spoke about this on another thread......and more and more, I just think that this could happen. Here are the clues: 1. BA ordered more 772ERs but
43 EI321 : It likely wont happen this year though. I wonder what Boeing are planning to do with 747-8i if BA & CX dont order it. Maybe Boeing will try to delive
44 SEPilot : They are abandoning the 747 in droves and using 777's. They have expressed zero interest in the Queen of Whalejets (my new name.) I do not understand
45 Dutchjet : True.......the 773ER is the 744 replacement at both ANA and JAL, and all of these 787s will replace larger airplanes on the short domestic/regional r
46 Stitch : Why not? BA has said they don't want new widebody twins until at least 2013, which is when the 787 will be available for delivery or additional 777s
47 Stitch : The A388's sheer size works against her in a short-haul, high-turnaround config. It takes a lot of time to embark and disembark 800 people plus the i
48 EI321 : Because both competing aircraft cant win the same order!
49 Post contains images Stitch : Only if BA is doing a "winner take all" competition and I haven't read anything where they have said that is the case. And even if they have, they've
50 EI321 : What do you mean, have they indicated that they might take both 787 & A350??
51 SEPilot : The whole argument for the Queen of Whalejets and the Jumbo before it was that they are more efficient than smaller planes; however, that only applie
52 EI321 : How about a few examples. Personally I cant see ANA or JAL buying A380s for various reasons, but what kind of frequencies are these airlines flying o
53 Beaucaire : Now there are several approaches to the term "efficient"-in terms of seat mile cost's the 380 is definitely cost-efficient ,bearing in mind that mult
54 SixtySeven : The 380 is the 21st centuries equivalent of the Concorde. Both are astounding pieces of technology but they don't sell. Airbus now has to sell 450+ of
55 ANstar : Didn't they meet this target with Qf & SQ's follow on orders?
56 Zvezda : A better analogy would be the DC-7 -- the last great prop aircraft that failed to compete against newer technology jets. Aluminium airliners will not
57 JayinKitsap : Isn't 2008 the effective EIS date for the 380 as there will be just a single delivery and a very small number in 2008 actually. SQ will get some firs
58 Post contains images Jacobin777 : BA have enough "slack" in their system......flexibility is something BA, CX, and AA thrive on... ....LHR-NRT are two of the most slot-constrained pai
59 OA260 : LOL..... but life wouldnt be the same without Zvezda. No one knows for sure what will be ordered or what wont be , its all arm chair talk !!! In 6 mo
60 SixtySeven : Zvezda: I disagree with you on the composite front. Airbus certainly had the lead. But I think Boeing is way out in front now. Patents and what not wo
61 Flysherwood : Very well said. None of the Airbus fans wants to admit that they are on very shaky ground with the A380 project. As for the A350, there is a reason t
62 SEPilot : They have the technology for the wings, they're building them already for the A400M. The spun fuselage barrels is the sticky part, and it's not alway
63 Zvezda : ... and planning to further downguage from the 777-300ER to the 787-3. I agree that game is not over. Airbus became a bit complacent over their lead
64 Aerosol : As an EADS shareholder I can only say: SHUT UP - BE A PLANE MAKER!
65 SixtySeven : I'm not an airbus hater. Nor am I a lover. My loyalties lay with Boeing and sometimes that paints me in a corner. I do not like the 380 because it's A
66 Revelation : To me it's more like the "spoiled rotten fat b*tch of the skies". Takes every damn cent you have, overpromises and underdelivers. I wish more people
67 Zvezda : The WhaleJet is very, very cool, which is why I refer to it by its endearing nickname. However, the economic realities foretell sales prospects just
68 Post contains images SEPilot : I agree it's ugly, but that's not why I don't like it. It's not even a case of like or dislike with me; I just think it was built out of a desire for
69 WAH64D : What exactly is it that makes you feel qualified to point out these "deficiencies"? Maybe you and others from A.net should be on the Airbus Industrie
70 Post contains images Glideslope : Well, it's nice to see a public acknowledgement of the 2 CEO Implosion. Time? You ain't got it Louis. Unless of course there is some new funding on t
71 SixtySeven : The 320 family is a fantastic. Except for the 321 being an under powered dog, the 319 is a rocket. Great family, great economics. As for the A380. A l
72 CygnusChicago : It's ironic that four / five years ago, criticism was leveled AGAINST Airbus for using composites. Editorials, and websites such as this one, argued
73 Jacobin777 : ...anyone who said that is plain ignorant and doesn't deserve to post anywhere on A.net....everyone knew it will fly, it will be certified and will p
74 OA260 : Source???? My mate said this and my second cousin knows this etc...... It was by far the RIGHT one and time will prove this. Just because its had bad
75 Stitch : If the A388F has been a far better freighter then it is, Airbus probably could have checked Boeing, who instead would have concentrated on pushing 744
76 USAF336TFS : And those numbers seem to be paying off very well for Boeing. A recent Flight Global poll, admittedly unscientific, says that most of it's reader fel
77 RichardPrice : Its undoubted that the 747-8 will outsell the A380, in the same vein that the 747-8 will be outsold by the 777, which in turn will be outsold by the
78 Jacobin777 : ..but the problem was they were attempting to build a plane when it was easily shown that sales of VLAs had been on a downtrend.... ..not only has th
79 Ikramerica : VS uses an A346, which has only 75% the capacity of their denser 744s. Why? Demand. The 800 pound gorilla sitting on the A380 fence. Sure, the A380 i
80 Stitch : But sales were still there. And the A388 was going to be more efficient then the 744 (just as the 773ER was) so if Airbus felt that might reverse the
81 SixtySeven : Ikramerica. Your last four paragraphs are completely spot on an very well written. IMO
82 Ikramerica : To answer my own question: why on earth it was set for 2006 EIS, was that that would get them to full ramp up for the "20 year replacement cycle" for
83 Post contains images Flysherwood : Here is a prediction that you can take to the bank. The A380 will never make a profit for Airbus. I have often wondered what shareholders of EADS thi
84 SEPilot : Ditto. It was both a failure of vision and execution. Yes, sales were there but not enough to justify a $12 billion investment. Airbus really really
85 Bphendri : Hmm. This would be a surprise. For their long haul routes, I would thinkt hey would either. A) Replace their 747-400M's (Combi), with 777s, and eithe
86 Stitch : I have to disagree, Ikramerica. Boeing's proposals for VLAs for more of the 1990s were just bigger and heavier versions of the 747-400. They'd use the
87 Post contains images Stitch : And I disagree with you, as well, SEPilot. People say the market is not big enough to justify $12 billion for the A388, but I don't hear a lot of peop
88 Ken777 : I don't see that happening for 2 reasons. The first is that he is a Yank and that would not set well with the French, especially if he was aggressive
89 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...reinforces my argument.... ...neither do I... ....I don't know what Airbus was thinking..did they think Boeing was going to wither away and die..a
90 Post contains images Stitch : But Boeing already had a product in the market - heck, they created it. Boeing no doubt weighed the cost of developing an all-new plane (the NLA/MD-1
91 Post contains images Revelation : How much qualification does it take to spot a project that is 2.5 years late and >$5B over budget? Maybe you find it arrogant for me to say so, but I
92 SixtySeven : Hey WAH64. Maybe you should be on the 380 design team. Or at least in sales. You seem to be one of the only true die hards around here touting the pra
93 Mustang304 : Actually, when I was working at Boeing, I heard this as well. Probably not the same source, but it was from some significantly high up people in Boei
94 Jfk777 : Singapore Airlines buys the newest technology, that why they bought the 744 and the 743 before that and the 777 to replace the A340-300. Virgin start
95 Flysherwood : And there you have the problem. "...to become the world's LARGEST..." As a corporation, they should want to be the most PROFITABLE! Look at G.M. for
96 Zvezda : As a european, I don't care at all who makes the largest anything. I'm interested in innovation, not size. I'm an Airbus fan not because they are a e
97 OA260 : So am I Zvezda and thats why I love the A380 !!! As we have seen in the last week it has proved very popular. Why did thousands of people come out to
98 Stitch : And yet Toyota will shortly replace GM as the largest car manufacturer in the world... Yet they had the A388 in their portfolio, which helped them se
99 Post contains images Glideslope : OUCH!!!! But right on.
100 Post contains images Glideslope : Because nothing good has happened yet! Ok, it's quiet. The handpicked pax on the " flights" say they like it. Let's see the Fuel Burn numbers from th
101 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .....but it was in a declining market..... ....actually sales of the B777 hadn't taken off against the competitor until the price of oil started to m
102 SkyyMaster : I guess when you haven't had a new customer in two years this is considered good news, assuming it will happen. This would give them what, something c
103 B2707SST : You answer your own question here: given the size of the market for 747 derivatives and A380s, it is absolutely possible for a $4 billion investment
104 Stitch : Yes, the 747 market was a declining one, but not a precipitously declining one. It only became that post 2002 when the A388 was available for sale and
105 Post contains images Zvezda : I agree with you on most points, but I haven't seen any evidence that this is true, nor do I find that your conclusion follows logically from your pr
106 Art : As mentioned in various posts, there are several airlines that could potentially contribute to Airbus logging up another 20 A380 sales this year. As
107 Ken777 : While there have been a lot of valid comments on the pro & con of launching the 380 I personally believe that it will be a long time before the dust s
108 RayChuang : I think right now Airbus needs to demonstrate they can fly the A388 from LAX to HKG non-stop year-round at the A388's standard MTOW. If they can prove
109 Post contains images WingedMigrator : Is there some inflation I'm not aware of, or a recent swing in the euro exchange rate? The VLA market is quite uncertain. Boeing's yearly estimate of
110 AirFrnt : I'm going to ignore the rest the trollfest this article has become, with the exception of this. I already documented several times that Airbus almost
111 Zvezda : $19B in costs minus several billion in marginal profit on sales after the first 100 or so (which, by Airbus' admission, won't be profitable even at t
112 Post contains images Astuteman : Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. If your general posting stance regarding the A380 is anything to go by, there is nothing whatsoever in you that
113 Beaucaire : The boss of Air Berlin,Hunold,mentioned some days ago, he is -of course-looking into 787 and A350 orders as logic steps of expansion for his new daugh
114 Zvezda : Unkind personal attacks don't strengthen an argument. Sorry to disappoint you, Astuteman, but there is no double-dipping. To clarify, as of delivery
115 OA260 : Maybe on your side of the pond but over here its a different story. Oh well I like your humour but it will be flying over all of our tomb stones!!!!
116 Beaucaire : The A380 program will remain in the reds for the foreseeable future .Most in this forum have understood and got the message.So be it - can we then dis
117 Zvezda : We know that the 777 will never have a cabin as quiet as that of the WhaleJet.
118 Post contains images Astuteman : Nothing unkind about it Zvezda. You may well "love" the A380 (and I certainly wouldn't try to tell you what you love and what you don't) , but it mos
119 WAH64D : The 777 cabin is significantly louder than A330 or A340, it will be positively thunderous compared to A380. That however in my opinion is relatively
120 Post contains images Zvezda : No, I have not. Indeed. The net sales figures speak for themselves. Last year: JumboJet: 72 WhaleJet: 7
121 Curmudgeon : Can someone point to the last definitive, clear statement on this subject from Airbus? I understand the foregone profit, and I understand the added c
122 OA260 : Totally agree.... Well done WAH64D . The 747 has had its day , time to scrap it .
123 Art : I assume you are referring to the passenger versions of the aircraft. It will be interesting to see what happens if there are no further 748-I orders
124 Zvezda : Suppose, hypothetically, for the sake of argument, that the acquisition cost of two 787-8s is lower than the acquisition cost of one WhaleJet. Now, l
125 OA260 : Yeah I just cant see major orders for a 748-i when the A380 is on the market , but I may be wrong of course but time will tell. If the A380 lives upt
126 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think BA indicated they are looking for an initial order of 20 A380´s or 747-8i´s. The dome tone of some members here on Airbus seems overly pesi
127 WAH64D : Couldn't agree more.
128 EI321 : According to Boeing, the market for middle of the market aircraft is something like 5000 frames over the next 20 years. The 787 has a headstart of ab
129 Post contains images OA260 : Nice pic!!!!
130 Byrdluvs747 : That's just lame. Exactly!
131 Post contains images Stitch : Boeing has sold 86 passenger 747s to Airbus selling 121 A346s since the latter's program launch. Not exactly a "critical hit" in my book. Heck, the 7
132 Byrdluvs747 : Yeah, like all the airbus fans who bashed the 787 when it was launched. The vast majority of the public don't care about the type of aircraft as long
133 WAH64D : Are we forgetting that the 787 is still a paper aeroplane? Boeing hasn't even had a chance to stuff it up yet so lets not go there. For the record, I
134 Post contains images Zvezda : No doubt that the 777-300ER killed the A340-600. I think our disagreement is on the timing. Perhaps we could agree that the A340-600 mortally wounded
135 Post contains images Stitch : Indeed we could. I agree that no purpose would be served in such a case. But I do feel that is an airline was looking for a family of long-haul plane
136 OA260 : Well Im a Airbus fan and I never ''bashed the 787'' I like the 787 and cant wait to fly it as much as I love the A380 and cant wait to fly it . Whils
137 Byrdluvs747 : Are we forgetting 787 components actually exist and are about to be assembled. The 787 is no longer paper unlike the multiple variations of the truly
138 WAH64D : Who mentioned the A350? I'm fully aware of the stage of development the 787 is in. Until its built and able to fly, its a paper aeroplane.
139 EI321 : That simply did not happen. Ive yet to come across and a.net member who says that the Dreamliner is a bad idea or a bad aircraft. Its the most innova
140 Atmx2000 : I would suggest that the 744 was already obsolete before A346 EIS, and its sales would have gone down anyway. Over 10 yrs is a long time for an aircr
141 EI321 : Not really, look at the A320, A330-200, A330-300 & 777-200ER. All still class leaders and all over 10 years in production.
142 Post contains images Stitch : Heck look at the 767. No longer the market leader at 25, but still selling two frames for every three the current leader does.
143 Post contains images Ikramerica : Considering it's exaggerated hyperbole, I would hope it's lower down the list. The 777 is louder than those planes, more so with RR engines as I unde
144 Atmx2000 : 772ER EIS was in 1997, it is not selling in great numbers anymore. The A330 models are selling, but it is the much newer A332 which had EIS in 1998 t
145 EI321 : Well I think rather than an actual figure of age, its more dependant on whether a better aircraft comes on the market or not, such is the case with t
146 Post contains images OA260 : Thats the first entry route . Oct/Nov SIN-SYD then Jan/Feb LHR-SIN. Everyone has an agenda its how we run our lives !!! But I cant fit you in til nex
147 Zvezda : The 777-200ER is hardly selling at all. In general, airlines wanting aircraft in that capability range are ordering the 787 or A350. The few orders f
148 Post contains images EI321 : So what do we draw from this, has Boeing mugged themselves or something?
149 Zvezda : Not at all. Boeing can make more money selling 787s than 777s because the production costs are vastly lower and the value to the airlines is higher.
150 EI321 : But in doing so has spurred Airbus into developing an aircraft that covers the entire 777 range!
151 EI321 : Its had small improvements, so have the A340, A330 etc.
152 Zvezda : So what? If the 787-10 doesn't sell well against the A350-1000, Boeing have the option of developing a 787-11. If a 787-11 were to have the same payl
153 Atmx2000 : I suppose something could be obsolete and still be the class leader, like say the 744. I suppose if Boeing didn't have anything better to manufacture
154 OA260 : Its a shame because I love the 777 and prefer it to the Airbus A330 and from what ive seen I prefer it to the A350.
155 Atmx2000 : I didn't think the -10 would be competing against the -1000, but rather the -900. I do wonder if they will try the additional stretch of the 777, mov
156 Zvezda : Don't worry, the number of 777s in passenger service will rise from about 620 today to nearly double that. I'm curious though, why you expect to pref
157 Glareskin : I'm sorry but I cannot agree on that. I fly on all mentioned planes quite a lot and for my (subjective)e ars the A320 is the quietest of the mentione
158 Art : How? I don't know how many are on order but I guess you do.
159 Zvezda : I think Airbus were wise in positioning their A350 models in between the sizes of the 787 models. The more directly they go head-to-head, the more di
160 OA260 : I dont know I just cant get excited by the A350. I think that maybe its this . For all my life I loved the A300 and A310 for short haul flights say L
161 Atmx2000 : The A350-900 is only slightly shorter than the proposed 787-10, while the -1000 is much longer. The 8Y and 9Y capacities of the -10 flank that of the
162 Zvezda : Are you looking at cabin floor length, fuselage length, or overall length? Huh? I have no idea what you mean. Good point. The only Airbus model that
163 474218 : And what Airbus aircraft would that be?
164 Art : Isn't the size of the A350 determined by a desire to avoid competing head on with the 787, resulting in a strategic retreat into a larger design rath
165 Atmx2000 : The only length numbers I have are the wikipedia numbers. If there are other available numbers, I'd love to have them. I mean that the 3 class capaci
166 SEPilot : But the simple fact is that Boeing decided themselves that it wasn't worth doing and didn't do it. Anyone who thought Boeing would just roll over and
167 Zoom1018 : One problem. Likes many have been thinking/saying: one A380 replaces one (slot of ) B747 at LHR, but then carrier(s) will have to increase another sl
168 Zvezda : Both, actually. The wikipedia lengths are overall lengths and are not reliable for comparing cabin capacity. The cabin lengths for the 787-3/8, 787-9
169 BoomBoom : Are you kidding? The A380 wiring stuff-up took place in the design phase (incompatible CAD programs) while it was still a "paper airplane". That's al
170 Post contains images Iwok : So far, nothing about the decision has been right; from timing, to sizing, to technology, to marketing, to SALES... see below.. At least it fullfills
171 Post contains links WingedMigrator : The production delays were announced after the first flight, and were due to a somewhat more complicated set of factors than just bad IT practices. W
172 Zvezda : No, there have been four delays, not three. EIS was originally contracted for March 2006, not May. The first delay was from delivery in February to d
173 Trent900 : So if this is the case the 748i isn't going to sell either, which at the moment it isn't. Im sure Airbus have been keeping a VERY close eye on 787 pr
174 Curmudgeon : Beg pardon? The 748 is in fact outselling the A380 at the moment, if by that you mean recent orders. If you mean 0900Z on 01/04 then neither are sell
175 Zvezda : Airbus renewed their seriousness in CFRP about a year ago and hired a "composites czar" to push the use of composites in new products. Airbus are ver
176 Curmudgeon : Yes, I know that they are, and I expect them to innovate their way forward like Airbus of old. I was commenting on the previous poster's tone which i
177 Post contains images OA260 : Well im not a "BLIND" Airbus fan so I dont know who your post was aimed at !! I suggest you ''READ'' reply 160 again or maybe you ''MISSED'' it . Are
178 Zvezda : Iwok's comment is true in either case. Since the WhaleJet was launched, the 747 has won more orders. Since the 747-8 was launched, the 747-8 has won
179 OA260 : As time goes on and the A380 EIS I think that this will change, orders will increase for the A380 and de crease for the 747. Alot of carriers are tak
180 Zvezda : Are you expecting the opposite at the 747-8 EIS? If not, why not?
181 Glareskin : I do not know about his expectations of course. But there is a difference. The A380 is a all-new plane and suffered some severe headwinds whereas the
182 OA260 : Yes you summed it up very well. Thanks
183 EI321 : A good reason to wait for the A380 to enter service and then decide.
184 Zvezda : In both cases, predictions about operating economics have about the same level of uncertainty. The big difference is that the 747-8 has less risk of
185 Glareskin : I fully agree, but again, this is the perception of many. However at this stage, where the A380 as suffered from a lot of setbacks and is now close t
186 BigJKU : There is a big difference from knowing how to build it and having the technology in place to go ahead and do it. Lots of people know the basic theory
187 Trent900 : I did infact mention the 748i, not the 748 which in my eyes is the cargo job. The technology can be put down quickly if need be. And is there anythin
188 Zvezda : The WhaleJet is ahead of the 747-8 in sales if one only counts liveries with a lot of red. So what? Airbus and Boeing make just as much money regardl
189 BigJKU : Most of those companies operate under non-compete and non-sharing contracts with Boeing. Boeing helped finance and R&D a lot of the technology so the
190 BoomBoom : I believe it was understood within in Airbus, they were just not being forthcoming in conveying this news to their customers. In any event I was resp
191 Post contains links and images Astuteman : But they are quite willing to do just that, which must say something about the security of its future...... You might want to have a bit of a read of
192 BigJKU : If you were reading it in context I was responding to the notion that Airbus could simply co-opt the other suppliers of Boeing's 787 and use them to
193 Astuteman : The way that you post this makes it sound like Boeing are the only firm who "own" the CFRP technology necessary to make a CFRP aeroplane. I have a ve
194 Jwenting : hmm, if they make 20 orders a year it'll only be another 15 years before the breakeven point... And that's without compound interest on their loans. O
195 SEPilot : As I understand it, Boeing found the technology they needed at North Sails, and licensed it. Unless they have the most incompetent lawyers outside of
196 Post contains images Rheinbote : You don't say! This is supposed to be who? Make that Jean Pierson
197 Astuteman : FWIW, Audi registered 9000 patents on the latest A6, to add to the 7000 added to the previous one. And yet BMW, Mercedes et al (who all register thei
198 WAH64D : I think you'll find that Airbus were using composite parts long, long before the 787 was ever thought of. Amen to that!
199 Rheinbote : I tend to think that CFRP construction is far from being Airbus' #1 problem.
200 Post contains links BoomBoom : They'll be able to follow given the time, but the composite panel approach of the A350XWB strikes me a rushed response. Boeing found using composite
201 Trent900 : And was that the 748i's first year for sale? How many orders did the A380 pick-up during its first year? (Not including freighters of course) D.
202 Zvezda : The patent issue is just an inconvenience in that Airbus will have to do some engineering. Airbus have an ample sufficiency of good engineers. The en
203 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Continue here please: Airbus CEO Sees 20 New Orders For A380 This Year 2 (by ANCFlyer Apr 1 2007 in Civil Aviation) Anything posted in this thread aft
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
800 Net Firm Orders For BCA This Year posted Thu Dec 1 2005 19:17:59 by Starrion
Why No New A/c For AA This Year Only? posted Mon May 10 2004 02:18:24 by Ua777222
Is Airbus "Saving Up" Orders For Airshow Yet? posted Sat Mar 17 2007 13:28:49 by Art
20 New Routes For Viva Aero Bus posted Fri Oct 20 2006 14:17:27 by Billy
Airbus CEO Sees Mid-2006 Decision On A350 Changes posted Tue Apr 25 2006 18:06:06 by Sangas
Boeing - 733 Firm Orders So Far This Year posted Thu Nov 17 2005 17:20:00 by NAV20
Airbus Says It Can't Meet Demand For A380 posted Sat Oct 15 2005 23:20:47 by Jacobin777
Boeing Hopes For 700 New Orders For 787 posted Fri Jun 3 2005 13:01:51 by Keesje
Boeing: U.S. 7E7 Orders "unlikely This Year" posted Wed Jul 21 2004 12:13:14 by PANAM_DC10
Will There Be Any New Airlines At LHR This Year? posted Tue Mar 9 2004 20:18:15 by Bigpappa