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BA Buys 51 LHR Slots From BMI!  
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16671 times:

£30m pounds for 51 slots/week. Not too shabby.  Wink

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...ctors/transport/article1591309.ece

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16681 times:

This is the stupidest, most shortsighted thing that BMI has ever done.

NS


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16656 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
This is the stupidest, most shortsighted thing that BMI has ever done.

Unless they are running low on cash, sounds like TWA and PA in the early 1990s.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16633 times:

Their cash shortage is easy to fix - they have a list of suitors that want to invest in the airline directly, and they have one large *A partner in the US plus a slew of other US carriers that would have paid a premium.

3.4mm GBP is a steal, and they could have gotten way more from some desperate US carriers.

NS

edited for spelling.

[Edited 2007-03-30 16:52:30]

User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16620 times:

Great news for BA and their LHR operation, but a very strange and stupid move from BMI.

User currently offlineEmirates029 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16573 times:

BD are making very little sense to me nowadays

User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16542 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 1):
This is the stupidest, most shortsighted thing that BMI has ever done.

Or the cleverest??

This is clearly connected with the sale of BMED to bmi. BA had the right to vetoe the purchase to bmi which strangely they didn't. BD got around 50 ish weekly slots as part of that deal and now are suddenly selling a similar amount to BA. Really all BD have done is sold the slots they acquired from BMED to BA and got a very cheap fleet of A320/321s plus route authorities for next to nothing.



Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16484 times:

I may have been hasty. Connected in that way to the BMED purchase then I can see it being a little more beneficial.

NS


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8603 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16426 times:
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Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 6):
Really all BD have done is sold the slots they acquired from BMED to BA and got a very cheap fleet of A320/321s plus route authorities for next to nothing.

but what use are the route authorities without the slots to operate them ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16360 times:

BMI are not fish and not meat..
I never understood their marketing and target-group !
They have prime assets in LHR and a to diversified shareholder Structure to become efficient.LH have never been really interested in BMI neither ave SAS- so what the heck !
Either LH moves quickly and makes an asset out of their stance in BM and their relation with SAS or give it away ,in order to get still more cash to invest in either Iberia or AZ .
There is a moment to consider and a moment to act- LH lose a little bit to much time to act (unless they have taken some strategic decisions but we are unaware..)
Integration of Swiss seems to proceed quite well,smooth and first tangible results are visible.While the take-over of another airline is something complex ,full of (bad )surprises and money-consuming,LH are not in a defensive position.
There are currently three major airline-stakes for take- AZ,IB and BMI - at least one of them should be falling under the "Kranich" -wings. But time runs out...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineTak From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16336 times:

WOW! Sounds like BA is ready for open skies! Open skies but no slots  Smile. WHat percentage of LHR slots does BA currently own now?

Since BA now have more slots do you think this makes it more or less likely they will purchase the A380 or B747-8?


User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16335 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 8):
but what use are the route authorities without the slots to operate them ?

BD seem to have more slots than they can use at the moment anyway and seem to be operating filler flights such as extra frequencies to MME once the CDG flights stop. they are also looking to move away from routes where they compete with LCCs and move into medium haul routes such as those flown by BMED. The plan has always been to move around the current slots, cutting existing flights which are making little to no money and replacing the with higher yielding routes.



Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineBCALBOY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16208 times:

Also as BMI has its own Transatlantic ambitions, why wud it help potential new American carriers to get slots at LHR.

And BMI said it had strategy of moving to mid-haul ,so it will maintain Bmed network using slots from its own non performing routes, maintain the number of Deps but make the move to mid-haul.

Who knows what other agreements could be part of such a deal e.g BA agreeing to avoid potential BMI territory in US ...LAS?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27255 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16153 times:

I think its a good move . One of the better ones they have had for a while.

User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16153 times:

bmi might not have needed the slots, but don't you think they got rid of them too quickly? Surely if they had held on, more airlines would have approached them to make an offer. As it is, there are plenty of airlines who would want to operate into LHR once open skies is in force, but they are not ready yet to start buying slots.

User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16062 times:

Can some explain what a slot is classed as?

are we talking about 51 departures and 51 arrivals per a week (total 102)
or 51 movements, either arrivals or departures??
and are they for certain times of the day or any time???

thanks



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16063 times:

Is this a move to takeover BMED's routes since it was bought by BMI?


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16063 times:

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 14):
bmi might not have needed the slots, but don't you think they got rid of them too quickly? Surely if they had held on, more airlines would have approached them to make an offer. As it is, there are plenty of airlines who would want to operate into LHR once open skies is in force, but they are not ready yet to start buying slots.

1/ I guess that this was agreed long before we got a deal on open skies
2/ I don't think either BA or BD thought open skies would come about so quickly
3/ We don't actually know which slots we are talking about. They might all be undesireable slots late at night which no transatlantic operator would be interested in anyway.



Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8603 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16033 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Of course in this industry you should never say "never" ... but would BA bother buying slots off BD if , as some rumours have it , they were planning to takeover BD . It seems unlikely , so perhaps we can put that rumour away .... for a few days  Wink


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16000 times:

Couple of thoughts...this appears to impact Star's ability to use BMI for connects to intra country.....wonder if BMI and Star may be thinking LHR days numbered once it opens up and the fare wars hit it. On the other side BA has never been happy about LHR going open and this appears to be a major attempt to solidify their dominance at that airport to fight off newcomers....I would think some service will move to protected LHR from Gatwick now for BA and not that much new service. BA's position at LHR is becoming more and more like fellow member AA's at MIA and DFW...birds of a feather?

Side note...I would think this deal is not really final until Branson signs off to not fight it...grin


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15948 times:

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 17):

All good points. Is there any way of finding out which slots we are talking about here? The article claims that £3.4 Million per slot is considered cheap (!) so maybe they aren't important slots...Also, bmi got £30 Million from BA for this, and paid £30 Million for BMed, so they have effectively traded 51 slots for a bunch of shiny a/c and route authorities. I wonder if it'll turn out to be a great idea or an awful idea...?


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15859 times:

For to and from the US the slots are likely to be in the morning.

User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4053 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15762 times:

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 15):
are we talking about 51 departures and 51 arrivals per a week (total 102)
or 51 movements, either arrivals or departures??
and are they for certain times of the day or any time???

A slot is an arrival or a departure. So you need a pair of slots to operate in and out.
These slots will all have specific times.
There are slots available free at LHR but they are late at night, and not in pairs.

Be very careful with slots. Every article you read uses a different meaning.
The journalists rarely say whether they are slots/day, or slots/week. You usually have to work it out!

Look at the thread headline. 51 slots. not per day or per week.

Having purchased a slot, you have to start using it. Slots that are not used for 80pc of a season are returnrd to the pool and then given to the next applicant.

[Edited 2007-03-30 17:57:30]

User currently offlineLan1981 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15736 times:

I agree with others that it appears BMI may have sold the BMED slots to BA, but the article quotes a source at BA denying this. The trouble is, I can't see where else the slots have come from - they can't be the regional route slots as these flights are still operating.

The BMED slots guess makes sense...BMED made an overall loss in last 2 financial years, and from anecdotal evidence, only a few routes actually made any money (BEY was one...)

LAN


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15685 times:

I hope this puts to rest the myth that slots are not available. At some airports, free slots are not available but, for those willing to pay the market price, slots are always available.

25 Richardw : Bmi has made some destinations summer only, so some slots probably swap from winter to summer, they also have done summer charters in the past, so qui
26 Lan1981 : True, as long as there are willing sellers.
27 777236ER : The most valuable thing BMI own are LHR slots. If they don't carry out the (really really) obvious Virgin merger then I don't give them more than five
28 DeltaDC9 : I never really thought BA would take the 380, and have my doubts about the 748. They do not seem to be slot restricted, , now especially, and seem to
29 WAH64D : Very glad that these slots stayed with a UK airline. All BDs slots are at useable times so it looks like BA just got a bargain whether its part of a B
30 Vfw614 : What's all the fuss about ? This has been discussed for a couple of days in England. The slots in question are BMed slots and they are the price bmi h
31 Post contains links VV701 : This will be great news for SK. They are trying to sell their 20 per cent stake in BD that is said too be worth £100 million: http://business.timeso
32 BCALBOY : N o , Summer and W are co-ordinated separately so the fact that a FLT operates Summer only doesn-t mean the slots are avail to sell in Winter If this
33 Jfk777 : This would have happened with no Open Skies. This is a consequence of BMI buying BMED. BMI gets additional A320/321's and BA gets a few more slots. Th
34 BCALBOY : Sounds abt right to me !
35 VV701 : On this occasion I believe we are talking 51 slots per week and assume, correctly or incorrectly, that it is 51 slot pairs.
36 Scbriml : BA doesn't have more slots. It effectively lost 50 slots when BD bought BMed. They have just replaced those slots. What will be interesting is to see
37 Scbriml : BA doesn't have more slots. It effectively lost 50 slots when BD bought BMed. They have just replaced those slots. It will be interesting to see if t
38 CYatUK : If I remember correctly, a while ago somebody on this forum mentioned that BMI would make an important announcement on the 02/04/07. Is this the annou
39 Lan1981 : I thought BMED owned its own slots?
40 BrianDromey : I am inclined to think that this story is utter rubbish. There is no way that BD would sell that many slots to BA, for so little cash. Plus the articl
41 Post contains images Scbriml : They did. They used those slots to operate BA flights under their franchise agreement. That's why I said "effectively". Yes, I agree, in absolute ter
42 Lutfi : Except they won't hand them over. LHR slots have a market value, and the directors of AF/KLM would be in breach of their duty if they gave millions o
43 Humberside : If this is part of the BMed deal, then was BMed really worth it? And if this is separate from Bmed, what the f*** are bmi doing (sorry for the languag
44 FlyCaledonian : Those slots might not become available to BA until the Winter schedule - or even the Summer one next year. Remember, UK Government got Open Skies post
45 PanAm330 : Wonderful timing for a daylight eastbound trans-Atlantic flight, don't you think?
46 Lite : Totally agree that bmi have no hope in making it alone once Open Skies goes ahead, even though I would hope bmi could stay independent, simply becaus
47 Boysteve : IMHO It will make no difference. BA will move flights from LGW to LHR and not change aircraft size on current services. Didn't BD get rid of it's A32
48 VV701 : KL operates two return flights to LHR (with F50s) from both RTM and EIN every week day as well as frequebt AMS-LHR rotations. The only AF flights to
49 Post contains images LHRBlueSkies : bmi = bonkers midless idiots! LHR is the jewel in the aviation crown...and with open-skies just around the corner, why-oh-why would bmi sell slots tha
50 BCALBOY : I don-t believe BA did want to have to take-over BMED a/c and staff. However I suspect Bmeds financial situ meant if they weren-t taken over they may
51 Edina : Complete rubbish I'm afraid............BAK was a favourite trip from the outset when it was operated on 737-400s via OTP, through to the 767s & DC10s
52 Lite : I've heard a couple of people say this, and the newspaper reports are claiming that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic are interested in purchasing
53 BCALBOY : Agree VS would probably keep the main routes fm LHR to the regions altho don-t know if this wud conflict with Vigin Rail ? IF VS did keep MAN-ORD, MA
54 Richardw : This is what I mean. If 2 slots were used to operate all year round to 2 destinations, then 1 slot can be made available by 2 destinations sharing 1
55 Lite : I'd be interested to know if bmibaby or bmi regional would be considered for sale as part of the £1 billion offer that British Airways are supposedly
56 AlanUK : Because the deal was struck a while ago, for the sale of BMED!
57 Theginge : Maybe this was the reason why BA let BMED pass into BMI hands un hindered, they were going to get the slots again to that BMED had been operating for
58 BCALBOY : I think thats basically the deal ,although, when you say aircraft , I presume they have taken over leases on the aircraft rather than actual ownershi
59 Lite : I think bmi purchased BMED predominantly for their route licenses, bmi wanting to move away from the heavy shorthaul competition into niche markets. A
60 Buckieboy : Yes! I was the second last booked passenger on BD333 from MME to LHR a few weeks ago, because of a KL cancellation, and I was sequence number 51 on a
61 CXA330300 : Any news on what particular services BA will use these slots for? As for BMI, do any of their LHR-Europe routes make money? That would be very true...
62 Lite : British Airways seem to be concentrating on their potential bid for Iberia now that they have these additional slots, perhaps realising that there was
63 David_itl : At a pinch: IAH, DFW, ATL. Don't know how frequently they'll operate, so let's assume daily services for all of them. So 21 slot pairs used and 30 to
64 Planesarecool : I'd say IAH will almost definately be 2x daily. It currently operates at 13x weekly, as well as the daily 767 which operates LHR-DTW-IAH. Once it mov
65 VV701 : If it is slots and not slot pairs how about LHR-XXX on a Sunday afternoon or evening, an overnight at XXX and XXX-LHR on Monday morning. For business
66 AIR MALTA : Did BA buy slots from MA cause MA stopped all their LHR-BUD flights. These were not replaced by BA. I think BA grabbed some valuable slots from other
67 VV701 : The code share is not funny. It is in the best interests of both BD and BA. BMED was significantly reliant on feed from BA flights. So in 2005 when t
68 Lite : Quite right, British Airways manages to maintain their presence (through codeshare rather than franchise) into a yield rich market, whilst bmi is res
69 ElmoTheHobo : BWIA, Swiss, SN Brussels, Malev sold Heathrow slots to BA.
70 Behramjee : It seems that BA has fired the first shot of the HEATHROW SLOT WARS destined to get more fierce as a result of the EU-USA open skies policy. Currently
71 Lite : I agree with much of your post Behramjee, that bmi would have been better off waiting until the American carriers were interested in buying slots for
72 Jfk777 : British Airways also purchased some slots from Avianca in 2001 or 2002. AV used to fly to LHR 3 or 4 times weekly from Bogota.
73 BestWestern : Dont forget the Bmed feed to BA, which would have also vaporised. And from Balkan Airways in 2005 (ish)
74 VV701 : The BMED feed to BA was worth £28 million. This is a significant sum but is not that large in BA terms when financial analysts are forecasting a BA
75 BAStew : From an article in the UK Times on 30 March regarding the slot sale: "Airline executives said that the price paid by BA appeared cheap. “Paying £3.
76 SkyyMaster : Either ATW or Airwise reported today (I think) that UA and BD have applied for anti-trust exemption on trans-Atlantic services. I didn't get a chance
77 Boysteve : Hmmm, a small hub maybe. Traffic from MAN-ORD and the New York area are sufficient. Feeding UA's hub at IAD worked until BD f**ked it up. I presume t
78 Lite : No, bmi is still intent on expanding their operations from Heathrow, but are doing so with the assistance of an established operator out of Heathrow
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