Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Small Airports In France-surviving With Low Costs.  
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

There is an ever increasing amount of small airports in France (less than 500.000 passengers ),that make a living out of Low Cost flights from Northern Europe.Typical example is Avignon,who just recently announced a new direct flight with Edinburgh ,provided by Jet2 ,Toulon with flights to Belgium,,Bergerac to the UK,Carcassonne with Ireland and Liverpool..
While the critics of the survival of these small platform are manifold ( ..we don't need them,we have the TGV,they can change in Paris ,waste of taxpayers money etc..),the situation of many of the remote-places like Bergerac,Rodez ,Carcassonne or Beziers is difficult without direct air-links.These air-links bring in investors,business links are set up,rural communities start to see a dynamic of change.
I think those small airports are important for the life of provincial France and those who think there should only be eight or ten "bigger" airports in France are dam wrong!


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1301 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3902 times:

I'd like as much as you to see more traffic at those local airport...

My local airport is TLN. Until recently, international traffic was forbidden due to the fact that LFTH is primarly a navy base. Then Buzz arrived, opening new routes to London Stansted and Bordeaux. Eventually they withdrew from TLN after the takeover by Ryanair. Then GB Airways on behalf of BA operated a short-lived TLN-LGW service.

Now things are improving as we're getting flights to London Stansted (Ryanair), Brussels and Brest (Jetairfly), Rotterdam (Transavia), Stockholm Arlanda and Bordeaux (Flynordic), in addition to the many daily flights to Paris Orly with Air France.

I think TLN could easily get more flights. The terminal is very nice and comfy, and of course there are lots of highly touristic cities all around (Hyères, where the airport is located, but also St Tropez, St Raphaël, etc...).


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

TLN has experienced a very nice growth from2005-2006 of nearly 20% - and this year should become still more interesting.Very conveniently located -the airport management has achieved to attract new airlines-good job!
Unlike MPL,where the down-trend continues..the airport announced new flights to 8 destiations but-as usual -just hot air and no substance-the flight will not take place and Montpellier remains an Air France monopoly.- all flights will have to go through Paris or Lyon!!
Carcassonne is -like Bergerac and Nîmes - an airport kept alive by Ryanair. With Nîmes I was hoping to see some improvements through the new management of Véolia,but so far they have not managed to attract any new airlines other than some seasonal flights to CPH on Cimber Air.
Grenoble and Toulon are clearly the two "small "airports with the best management..



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3808 times:

Quoting AOMlover (Reply 1):
Now things are improving as we're getting flights to London Stansted (Ryanair), Brussels and Brest (Jetairfly), Rotterdam (Transavia), Stockholm Arlanda and Bordeaux (Flynordic), in addition to the many daily flights to Paris Orly with Air France.

The problem is that all this is everything but competition.
While Air France is paying landing fees and taxes to operate its flights to/from those small "airports", let's say TLN, Ryanair and "friends", not only don't pay any taxes but are PAID by the Chamber of Commerce and Industry (who runs the airport) to operate their flights ... and get also some additional money for each passenger carried to the airport. Everybody praises these LCC as a model of Economy but forget that they would simply not exist without the millions of € of public money they receive each year ... Strange vision of competition

A lot of people complain about the "monoploly" of Air France on those lines, instead of being happy and thank AF to operate those unprofitable flights, regularly, with frequencies and modern aircraft, as they forget that if AF would not operate them, there would be simply no flights to Paris as those routes are not profitable event for LCC and noone is interested to operate them.
Remember what happened in PGF & LDE after AirLib went down ? They came and begged AF to restart flights ...


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
A lot of people complain about the "monopoly" of Air France on those lines, instead of being happy and thank AF to operate those unprofitable flights, regularly, with frequencies and modern aircraft, as they forget that if AF would not operate them, there would be simply no flights to Paris as those routes are not profitable event for LCC and noone is interested to operate them.

To my knowledge there are no AF flights to neither of the airports mentioned other than Avignon ,Toulon and MPL...so the funds paid by the CCI's are accounted for as regional development budgets ,and their return of investment is money spent quite intelligently.
If AF considers that flights to MPL or Avignon are lost investments,they would not fly them-anyhow,some flights like Avignon fall under the regional OSP rule (like flights to Corsica,where OSP provides AF guaranteed income..)
This thread is about small regional airports not served by AF- so there is no reason to create issues where there is no comparable base .
There is no resaon to start another anti-AF thread !

[Edited 2007-03-31 12:40:13]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 669 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

It is interesting the discussion about the arrival of LCCs to these airports. The one thing that the regions have to be wary of is the likes of FR not getting the most beneficial rates and pulling out. FR has done it before. The airport is then left high and dry with no service. This is a tough call for airports to make.

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

The claim that certain airports do pay actually to get passengers is true for Ryanair but not necessarily true for other airlines.
I know that Scandinavian or other UK carriers serving airports in France do get reduced handling fees as incentive,but there is no such thing as getting cash on-top of that for each passenger brought into that airport.
Nobody screams when local administrations invest in useless round-abouts all over the countryside-with no apparent benefit other ,than the major who gets some "funding" for his party from the entrepreneur who got the deal.
That is a true waste of budget.Attracting airlines to structurally poorly served regions by paying them incentives is something different,since there is a windfall-profit .
The goal of CCI's is to encourage and facilitate business in the region they are in charge- and airports are a great tool for doing that.
The best example would be Frankfurt- Hahn airport-right in the middle of nowhere.
Ten years ago the place was a rotten military airbase-now they manage nearly 4 M passengers ,make money and provide several hundred jobs in a structurally poor area.The management of Frankfurt-Main airport has very soon discovered the benefit of the place and has taken a stake in the airport-company.
Something similar could happen in France,provided the regional airport reaches a critical mass of passengers ,attracting third party companies,service,tourism and handling infrastructure.Carcassonne,Nîmes or Grenoble could well qualify for this development.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineUsair320 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 991 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3628 times:

La Rochelle(Excuse my spelling) survives on FR service. Any more there. On other part down in Spain there is Jerez which is served by FR(STN, HHN), UK charters...., and IB.

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Actually La Rochelle is not so badly served - they have flights with Easyjet,Ryanair,FlyBe ,Airlinair (French regional using ATR42 ) and ocasionally charters to Morocco and Tunisia..
Compared to other smaller province-town airports they are doing quite well..!



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

We had such a discussion earlier, around Montpellier then, I think.
It is clear that each local CCI wants to have flights and if possible not only to Paris.
The problem is passenger load. How many people from Perpignan, Carcassone, Beziers, Montpellier, Nimes, Toulon can supports these flights in competition with Toulouse, Marseille and Nice?
I live in Stavanger (Norway) and my parents are located near Toulon. It would suit me fine to have a direct flight between these two places, but how many others would follow me everyday, week and month? So I fly SVG-AMS-MRS or SVG-CPH-NCE and I'm happy that France has a so good motorway network.


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

Quoting Breiz (Reply 9):
We had such a discussion earlier, around Montpellier then, I think.
It is clear that each local CCI wants to have flights and if possible not only to Paris.

That is correct -we had an argument about Montpellier - which I don't want to bring up again.
The resons why so many regional airports in the Languedoc try to catch more traffic,is partly because MPL does not operate as it should.
The recent (false )announcment of 8 new lines for MPL (based on the wrong assessment of the airport ) indicate there is something wrong in the way this airport is managed.Would MPL have an attractive offer ,the close-by airports would feel discouraged.
Of course all smaller aiports want more direct lines -that's what their directors are paid for.Either the Département takes the decision to close them -or they do what they are supposed to do.You can not blame the airports to operate,but must ask the politicians to come to grips with their infrastructure-policies.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3541 times:

Maybe some of my french friends can help me figure this out, but I always wondered why the airport at Grenoble seemed to be barely used? IIRC, AF has some flights to ORY, and thats about it. Most people in Grenoble seemed to drive to LYS to connect at places like LHR, CDG, AMS, etc. Why can't AF run some CDG- Grenoble flights?

User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3519 times:

Grenoble is not very far from Lyon and relatively well served by TGV to Paris.
Regardless of that,the airport has managed to attract a quite large number of new airlines to serve international destinations.They include Easyjet,Ryanair,SkyEurope,Wizzair,Flynordic,Thomsonfly ,Centralwings ,Blue Express(Italy)and Air Algerie.
An attractive offer for an airport who had several years ago just flights to Paris.Grenoble is considered by some as the future"Low Cost" airport for Lyon...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 11):
Maybe some of my french friends can help me figure this out, but I always wondered why the airport at Grenoble seemed to be barely used? IIRC, AF has some flights to ORY, and thats about it. Most people in Grenoble seemed to drive to LYS to connect at places like LHR, CDG, AMS, etc. Why can't AF run some CDG- Grenoble flights?

AF doesn't serve GNB anymore. PAR-GNB has always been a loosing money line as the airport is far from Grenoble city (about 40 km) and therefore not interesting compared to the TGV. And, as said, LYS is not that much further and offers a better choice of destinations and airlines


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3479 times:

As both a customer and a someone with a keen interest in Ryanair, I am wholeheartedly delighted that it very often establishes brand-new routes and thus takes advantage of brand-new opportunities: it increases both convenience and options for those visiting family and friends (it carries more customers for that reason than any other) think Poland; for tourism; and for business. For the airport operators, it's all about volume: if Ryanair operates a 1x daily frequency, that's a maximum possible passenger figure of just under 137,930 per year (in and out traffic combined). If it operated 4 daily flights, that's a max. per year of 551,880. If your airport has no scheduled flights, the possibility of going from zero to over half-a-million very quickly is unbelievably tempting. One consequence of volume is even stronger bargaining power. One of Ryanair's most impressive strengths is its ability to negociate excellent deals - deals that are available to all airlines if they negociated hard enough and if they were able to provide equal or greater volume.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Small Airports With Loads Of Service In The US posted Fri Jul 28 2006 12:33:55 by Dsa
Storm In France, Paris Airports? posted Fri Dec 8 2006 19:50:36 by ZRHnerd
Low Cost Operations In France posted Tue Aug 16 2005 09:47:51 by Pascalrex
Airports In Europe With Most B747 Operations? posted Sat Mar 20 2004 00:13:31 by KA501
Low-cost Airlines In France posted Thu Oct 24 2002 14:41:17 by AFa340-300E
2006 Busiest Airports In The World posted Thu Mar 8 2007 19:00:30 by AirFrnt
Stuck In The Middle With Blue (Jetblue) posted Sun Feb 18 2007 06:07:50 by JerseyGuy
Honda To Mfg Small Jets In North Carolina posted Fri Feb 9 2007 17:15:44 by Lumberton
Brazilian Top 30 Airports In 2006 posted Fri Jan 26 2007 05:16:17 by LipeGIG
DL In Merger Talks With NW: WSJ Part 2 posted Sat Jan 13 2007 08:20:06 by ANCFlyer