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Delta's New Slimline Economy Seats  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6493 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 22790 times:

I have heard the news that Delta intends on adding 10 more seats to the 737-800s and domestic 767-300s. This will be accomplished through the use of slimmer seats.

I have a few questions though:

  • Does anyone know who will make the seats? If I were to assume, I would guess that the seats will be made by Recaro. If the seats are indeed made by Recaro, I hope Delta goes with either the CL3510 or the CL3610
  • Will these new seats have headrests? I personally think that Delta made a mistake on removing the headrests from the seats on the 737-800s and newer 757s. Luckily the headrests were kept on the 767-400s and 777s. Hopefully these new slimline seats will add headrests back to the 737-800s. At least these new seats, either with or without headrests, will be better than the current seats on the domestic 767-300s, which are shorter than those on Delta's other aircraft.
  • Will the new slimline seats become the standard on new aircraft? I know that the new lie-flat BusinessElite seats by Contour Premium will be the standard for all new long-range international aircraft. Also, what will the domestic First Class seats be like on the new 737-700s?

    If anyone has information, please reply to this thread. Thanks.


  • The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
    61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
     
    User currently offlineHalcyon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 22758 times:

    So they're slimming the width? At 17 inches, it's already pretty tight, and the pitch is not that great either. From seat guru: Economy Class: 32.0" 17.0" 134 seats.

    I wonder what the new seats will be like. can't really rag on it until I've tried it, but, if true, I usually a fan of seats getting bigger instead of smaller.


    User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26951 posts, RR: 58
    Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 22771 times:

    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .



    User currently offlinePacifica From Canada, joined May 2006, 149 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22535 times:

    Quoting Halcyon (Reply 1):
    So they're slimming the width? At 17 inches, it's already pretty tight, and the pitch is not that great either. From seat guru: Economy Class: 32.0" 17.0" 134 seats.

    I wonder what the new seats will be like. can't really rag on it until I've tried it, but, if true, I usually a fan of seats getting bigger instead of smaller.

    I'm not too sure if your trying to be sarcastic or serious here, but if you're being serious then I'll explain. Slimline doesn't refer to the width of the seat bottom in that regard, it actually refers to the thickness of the seat (ex. padding), in that Recaro and some of the other seat makers have found ways to make a less thick seat that is still extremely comfortable and supportive. It gives passengers the perception of greater leg room and seat pitch, because the seat is designed to give more room at the knee and leg level due to being less thick. From what I've heard, it adds about 2" of virtual seat pitch, meaning that with the new seats Delta's 32" pitch in economy will actually FEEL like 34" pitch with the old seats.


    User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22504 times:

    the seats, images, manufacturer, width, pitch, IFE, headrest information, color and make/model will be available in the near future.


    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
    User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2192 posts, RR: 35
    Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22378 times:

    Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
    I presume they will be like these as seen on Swiss. Only difference is Swiss made them thinner to give more leg room. They are comfortable seats though. I have flown lots of times on them .

    Check your facts again. The new seats meant a quite significant increase in seats on all the aircraft they installed it on. The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.


    User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22330 times:

    Quoting Pacifica (Reply 3):
    greater leg room and seat pitch,

    Unfortunately, Delta is more interested in revenue than it is in seat pitch.



    The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
    User currently offlineAanyc From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22298 times:

    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact. By adding 10 seats to the 737-800 for a total of 160 seats and 260 on the domestic 763, this would require one additional flight attendant on each aircraft. I can't see the revenue from 10 seats off setting the cost of 1 additional flight attendant. Delta removed 2 seats from their domestic 763 to reduce minimum crew. Why add the seats now?

    User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22269 times:

    Quoting Aanyc (Reply 7):
    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact. By adding 10 seats to the 737-800 for a total of 160 seats and 260 on the domestic 763, this would require one additional flight attendant on each aircraft. I can't see the revenue from 10 seats off setting the cost of 1 additional flight attendant. Delta removed 2 seats from their domestic 763 to reduce minimum crew. Why add the seats now?

    That's exactly what I was thinking. Airlines like to keep those mid-sized aircraft at or below 150 so that they can keep the minimum cabin crew down.



    Good goes around!
    User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22238 times:

    Quoting Aanyc (Reply 7):
    I have a feeling that this is more rumour than fact.

    It was announced at INvestor Day. go listen at Delta.com......



    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
    User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8672 posts, RR: 15
    Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22215 times:

    Well these seats should be confortable as others have said, but would 10 seats make up for that extra f/a in terms of reveanue?

    MCOflyer



    Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
    User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22201 times:

    Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
    Well these seats should be confortable as others have said, but would 10 seats make up for that extra f/a in terms of reveanue?

    MCOflyer

    Thats my question given just a few years ago they reduced the 738s to 150 and just last year took down the 763



    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
    User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21514 posts, RR: 60
    Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22202 times:

    Honestly, why not just use webbed back chairs with metal tube frames like the olden days. It's getting there anyway. These thin back chairs mean that anyone getting anything from the pocket will be punching you in the small of your back and people crossing their legs kicking you with their feet. Not just jarring the seat, but physically kicking and jabbing you through the ultra thin seatbacks. I've felt this on some thin back seats (like on some of CO's 757 and 737) and it is not a good feeling.

    Delta Y seats already suck for a tall person, so hopefully they will at least add something to the height. I'm just not looking forward to being jabbed in the back with fists and knees. Maybe they will have hard plastic shells to isolate such intrusions, but most thin seats of the last generation don't.

    Quoting Pacifica (Reply 3):
    still extremely comfortable and supportive

    You say "still" as if older Y seats are extremely comfortable, and i highly doubt the new ones are "extremely" comfortable either. They may be adequately comfortable, but not "extremely."

    Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
    The seat pitch was in fact reduced though the perceived seat pitch kept the same.

    There is no such thing as "perceived seat pitch" and the term pitch should be replaced when talking about pax space to "knee room" instead. Pitch is meaningless unless it is also accompanied by seat back thickness.



    Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
    User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22179 times:

    i think people will be pleasantly pleased in some aspects...


    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
    User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8672 posts, RR: 15
    Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22151 times:

    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
    i think people will be pleasantly pleased in some aspects...

    More service ratio of f/a's to pax.

    In my opinion DL isn't getting any revenue because these additional 10 seats will pay the extra f/a. Now if it were Business Elite, then it would different.

    MCOflyer



    Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
    User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 21951 times:

    Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
    In my opinion DL isn't getting any revenue because these additional 10 seats will pay the extra f/a.

    Are you serious?

    Even if you are paying $50 per hour for a F/A, on a 3 hour flight thats an extra $150. DLs load factor is usually around 80% I believe, so if 8 out of those 10 seats are filled it brings Delta what? Well about $70-80 per seat, which equals to a net gain of $410-490 per 3 hour flight. So it would make sense to add 10 seats on a 738, especially on those international flights DL makes good money on!!!!!


    User currently offlineCtheworld From Mayotte, joined Dec 2004, 478 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 21926 times:

    Quoting Evan767 (Reply 6):
    Unfortunately, Delta is more interested in revenue than it is in seat pitch.

    Uh, isnt that what they are in business to do, create revenue?


    User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1608 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 21745 times:

    DL isn't adding that many more seats; I think just one row of 6 seats. Didn't this plane hold 154 seats before they took out two rows? I can't remember, but I think there are 4 seats missing from the back of the plane on the left hand side.


    "FLY DELTA JETS"
    User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
    Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 21695 times:

    Who makes the ANA domestic Seats? They are very thin and suppose to be environmentally friendly (recycled materials). They have saved money for ANA due to their light weight structure. They are now looking at applying the same technology to domestic C to see if it will save even more in fuel costs.


    Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
    User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6493 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21547 times:

    In economy class, I believe that the seat manufacturers may vary based on aircraft type. I think that the current economy seats on the domestic 767-300s are the oldest in the fleet, which explains why they are shorter than on other aircraft. In fact, they are too short to fit PTVs, and may be one of the reasons Delta intends on adding new economy seats to the domestic 767-300s. I do not know who makes any of Delta's economy class or domestic first class seats, however, I do know who makes the BusinessElite seats. The current BusinessElite seats are made by B/E Aerospace, the new lie-flat BusinessElite seats will be made by Contour Premium.


    The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
    User currently offlineATLflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21436 times:

    Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
    the seats, images, manufacturer, width, pitch, IFE, headrest information, color and make/model will be available in the near future.

    Any date on when these new seats will be revealed? It will be nice to see new seats on the 737-800 and 767-300s...Also if I remember correctly from a press release, the recline will not intrude on the person behind you because the bottom of these seats will move forward.

    Also, can you tell us any time frame of when we may see a 777-300ER and 787 order from Delta? Within a year? Six months?


    User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6493 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 21066 times:

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 20):
    Also, can you tell us any time frame of when we may see a 777-300ER and 787 order from Delta? Within a year? Six months?

    I would expect a 787 order at least in the fall, and at the same time, Delta could order the 777-300ER. For the 787, I would expect the inital order to be for the 787-8.

    I wonder if the new slimline seats will become the standard for Delta's new aircraft. If these new seats don't have headrests, it would be a joke to see them on the 777-200LRs. Maybe Delta will order both versions with and without headrests, but hopefully Delta orders them all with headrests. Its a shame that Delta removed the headrests from the 737-800s and newer 757s, but luckily Delta kept them on the 767-400s and 777-200ERs. A few of Delta's newest 767-300ERs also feature headrests, I wonder if Delta intends on keeping them.

    [Edited 2007-04-02 03:06:48]


    The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
    User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 20967 times:

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 20):
    Also, can you tell us any time frame of when we may see a 777-300ER and 787 order from Delta? Within a year? Six months?

    I would think Delta's fleet plan will become clear within the next few months. What that fleet plan holds is anyone's guess, unless of course you read between, or listen between the lines...

    Quoting ATLflyer (Reply 20):
    Also if I remember correctly from a press release, the recline will not intrude on the person behind you because the bottom of these seats will move forward.

    There are other airlines that have announced a similar seat to what Delta will install.

    Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
    I wonder if the new slimline seats will become the standard for Delta's new aircraft. If these new seats don't have headrests, it would be a joke to see them on the 777-200LRs. Maybe Delta will order both versions with and without headrests, but hopefully Delta orders them all with headrests.



    In an ideal world, there will be standardization. The new type of seats coming out of manufacturers do not have "wings" per se, but an alternate mode of "headrest." Whether Delta applies this type of seat to the fleet or not remains to be seen.



    The piece of info here is that you could deduce who manufactures these seats by either: doing some research or re-looking at old posts in which an article clearly stated who was making them.


    [Edited 2007-04-02 03:18:49]

    [Edited 2007-04-02 03:26:29]


    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
    User currently offlineUnknownUser From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20511 times:

    I wonder if they are anything like FL's? Those seats are awful. The recline is bad, the tray table falls down and the seat back pockets always seem to be destroyed. That's my opinion from only two flights on what seemed to be new aircraft. They are Recaro seats I believe.

    User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
    Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 20374 times:

    Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 23):
    I wonder if they are anything like FL's? Those seats are awful. The recline is bad, the tray table falls down and the seat back pockets always seem to be destroyed. That's my opinion from only two flights on what seemed to be new aircraft. They are Recaro seats I believe.

    No.



    Some see lines, others see between the lines.
    25 WorldTraveler : Also, the 738s are increasingly being used on transcon and Caribbean/Latin services where meal service is offered. While food will be complementary on
    26 ElmoTheHobo : Swiss managed to add 12 new seats (2 rows) on the A320s for a total of 168 passengers in a single class configuration, and cut weight by some absurd
    27 Deltajet757 : Bring back the head-rests!!!! I hate having a sore neck after a long flight. The legroom is OK although it could be better but the head-rests would be
    28 Lrgt : I'm sure they're just making first class biger and/or more roomy... there should still be 150 seats on the 738's, just that more of those seats will
    29 Alitalia744 : I wasn't saying that FL doesn't have Recaro. I was saying the new DL seats are not the same as FL's... thanks.
    30 Post contains images Nwarooster : That is why I call coach Steerage!!!
    31 BosWashSprStar : Except for that . . . if DL always has an 80% load factor, then those last 10 seats are never filled. If DL goes from 150 to 160 seats, the only reas
    32 Panamair : Yes, those have been kept. Flew on ship 1610 recently and the entire plane had been refurbished except for the BE seats/PTVs; the Y seats were in the
    33 Post contains links OA260 : Do you have a link to this ??? All I can find is this:: http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/about-s...sw-op-ob-product-reconfig-a320.htm The number of seats
    34 Vegas005 : Actually you can tell the difference. The old seats are big and soft and the new seats are hard as a rock. I fly SWISS a few times a week on 1 to 2 h
    35 Post contains images Halcyon : Serious, as I really no nothing about seating, but when I heard that they were fitting more seats in the same space, I was of course concerned. Thank
    36 OA260 : I guess its personal taste. I flew to Greece from Dublin via ZRH on 4 roundtrips and most had the new seats which I prefer. The old seats were ok but
    37 ATLflyer : What is a headrest without the wings? If it is just extra padding with nothing on the sides, then it is really no different than the current headrest
    38 RL757PVD : I just hope the seatbacks are taller in coe of the aircraft esp the domestic 763s, they practically only come up to the back of my neck and im only 6
    39 Alitalia744 : I know very little about Delta compared to some here. That being said, I read a lot.
    40 FRALIM : No 100% correct either... you are right when it comes to the A320's, but the ARJ's are also being refurbished with the new seats (2 so far with the t
    41 Vegas005 : Good point..I missed that idea. I guess it really is just a matter of personal taste. The new seats do give the aircraft a very clean look. Almost li
    42 Post contains links ATLflyer : A few months ago, there was an article that talked about new slimline economy seats and how they are now made to recline without intruding on the pass
    43 ElmoTheHobo : Pitch remains the same, perceived legroom increases.
    44 BAW716 : Well, I'm back... OK. First, if DL is installing additional seats, it will incur the cost of an additional flight attendant. On short haul flights, th
    45 ATLflyer : Look at the link I provided above. It will show you that it can handle PTVs.
    46 Positiverate : Where did you hear the news? Whose news was it? Was it DL's news? Was it news that you inferred from somewhere else?
    47 1337Delta764 : It was announced on Investor Day. Delta has stated that they intend on increasing the capacity on the 737-800s and domestic 767-300s. It is safe to a
    48 ATLflyer : If Delta is changing out their economy-class seats on the 738 and 763, then it seems like they would also introduce new First Seats as well. I have no
    49 1337Delta764 : I believe that on the domestic 767-300s, the First Class seats are newer than the economy class seats. I believe that the economy class seats were fa
    50 Remcor : Whoa, that's the most specific piece of information I've heard on here in a long time. There's someone who really cares about where he puts his ass!
    51 CRJ900 : An extra FA may give the cabin crew a better work environment as the pax-to-FA ratio goes down. The FAs can have a longer coffebreak during the fligh
    52 Marcus : Volaris uses these Recaro seats on their A319's, since all of the ones I have flown with them have a manufacturing date of 2006 I guess these seats ha
    53 ATLflyer : There has to be someone on this forum that has a photo released internally. Anyone???
    54 Post contains images WestJetYQQ : So what? They are going to cut the seat pitch down to like 27.0"? Bad Choice! Unless that is what they will look like, but on the 738, adding 10 more
    55 1337Delta764 : Everyone would prefer comfortable seats. Recaro categorizes their economy class seats into two categories: Shortrange: BL3510 - Recaro's basic slimli
    56 Post contains images Alitalia744 : interesting thoughts in this thread. can't wait to see what Delta has in store for us!
    57 FlyDeltaJets87 : Depends on how you look at it. An increase in seats doesn't necessarily mean an increase in the number of passengers flying the route. Let's say you
    58 ElmoTheHobo : Even with the extra seats, the slimline seats lower the aircraft's weight.
    59 Post contains images LawnDart : Okay, this may be a stupid question, but how, exactly, can you average over 100% load factor?!?!? Are we loading passengers in the luggage bin? "Ladi
    60 FlyDeltaJets87 : Sorry. I meant constantly overselling the plane, since airlines will sell something like 110% of the seats or something like that. Certainly. Like I
    61 LawnDart : To a point...factor in the extra seats you have to sell, the no-show factor, revenue management (I will sell 20% at $50 instead of 15%), all these di
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