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FI - Airbus Invests In A350 Wing Line  
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4790 times:
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Just spotted this one in Flightglobal.

www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/0...invests-in-a350-xwb-wing-line.html

Quote:-
Airbus is planning a £570 million ($760 million) investment to upgrade composite capability at its Broughton site in the UK, in preparation for its role as final assembly location for the A350XWB wing.
The company will start the two- to three-year investment plan next year as part of its overall Power8 restructuring plan, says senior vice-president and wing centre of excellence head Brian Fleet.


Regards

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBigsmile From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

It's actually 575 million euros not pounds. They also requesting 10million euros (from the the 575 million) to start the building work of the factory itself.

Theres alot going on at broughton at the minute, although unofficial walkouts aren't going to help matters.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4421 times:
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Quoting Bigsmile (Reply 1):
They also requesting 10million euros (from the the 575 million) to start the building work of the factory itself.

The reason I posted it is that the commitment, and its purpose, would appear to suggest that speculation that BAE's pull-out of Airbus would prompt a re-distribution of Airbus UK's work to other European partners, via power8, was premature...  Smile

A big vote of confidence in Airbus UK's future, i would have thought.....  thumbsup 

Regards


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 2):
The reason I posted it is that the commitment, and its purpose, would appear to suggest that speculation that BAE's pull-out of Airbus would prompt a re-distribution of Airbus UK's work to other European partners, via power8, was premature... Smile

A big vote of confidence in Airbus UK's future, i would have thought..... thumbsup

Why would Airbus shoot itself in the foot and pull away from the teat of direct cash influx over BAe's divestment?


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4163 times:
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Quoting Khobar (Reply 3):
Why would Airbus shoot itself in the foot and pull away from the teat of direct cash influx over BAe's divestment?

Sorry, Khobar.
I was commenting on the assumption that many(most) posters out there would see Power8 purely as a process to satisfy the political needs of the French and Germans.

I'm sure that if Airbus did intend to pull out of the UK, those many(most) posters would quite happily propose that the "teat of direct cash influx" would gladly be proffered by the French or German governments in compensation..........

In any event, as this is a direct cash influx by Airbus, it would seem to be a bit like sucking on one's own "teat", wouldn't you think?
(That's not easy - I tried  Wink )

Regards


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4125 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4):
I was commenting on the assumption that many(most) posters out there would see Power8 purely as a process to satisfy the political needs of the French and Germans.

That is how I see it.  Yeah sure

I don't understand why Airbus would begin desiging and building a new facility to build new wings, for the A-350, when even Airbus doesn't know what the A-350 is, yet.  banghead 


User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

I thought that there is some sort of configuration date for the A350 this year?

User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1920 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
I don't understand why Airbus would begin desiging and building a new facility to build new wings, for the A-350, when even Airbus doesn't know what the A-350 is, yet.

You really believe that Airbus itself doesn't know how their A350 is going to look like? According to British Airways, they were about to receive the final info on the last family-member, the -1000, at the end of last week. I think Airbus was in the know a little longer than that, justifying this investment in their wing factory in the UK.

Because we as the general public still have some sketchy info on the A350 doesn't mean Airbus and the airlines doesn't know what it's going to be, hence the remarks of British Airways and the journey of the Emirates CEO to Toulouse last week.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4063 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4):
I was commenting on the assumption that many(most) posters out there would see Power8 purely as a process to satisfy the political needs of the French and Germans.

That is how I see it.

I must have lost the plot somewhere....................................................................  weeping 


So....... Airbus are spending $750m on the Broughton wing facility in the UK (specifically on composite technology for the A350XWB)...and (specifically through the Power8 re-structuring).. to satisfy the needs of the French and Germans.

PLEASE tell me I didn't understand your intent.......  pray 

Regards


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 7):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
I don't understand why Airbus would begin desiging and building a new facility to build new wings, for the A-350, when even Airbus doesn't know what the A-350 is, yet.

You really believe that Airbus itself doesn't know how their A350 is going to look like? According to British Airways, they were about to receive the final info on the last family-member, the -1000, at the end of last week. I think Airbus was in the know a little longer than that, justifying this investment in their wing factory in the UK.

Because we as the general public still have some sketchy info on the A350 doesn't mean Airbus and the airlines doesn't know what it's going to be, hence the remarks of British Airways and the journey of the Emirates CEO to Toulouse last week.

Cheers!

Agreed, there was an interview with Tom Enders (?) recently where he mention that the XWB had passed a certain config point (gateway 4) and final firm freeze will be mid 2008. They've started to appoitn suppliers so they must have made some decisions as to what it's going to look like!


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3931 times:
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Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4):
I was commenting on the assumption that many(most) posters out there would see Power8 purely as a process to satisfy the political needs of the French and Germans.

I'm sure that if Airbus did intend to pull out of the UK, those many(most) posters would quite happily propose that the "teat of direct cash influx" would gladly be proffered by the French or German governments in compensation..........

Airbus UK's VP was before Parliament last week asking for more government support for R&D at Brighton, but even if Parliament was not receptive to those calls (I have not read anything post-speech), I would expect Airbus feels that Brighton has sufficient knowledge and the facilities (thanks to the A400M and A388) that it makes most sense (and least additional cost) to improve them rather then start fresh in France or Germany.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9999 posts, RR: 96
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3919 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
for R&D at Brighton

"Rest and.." What's the "D" stand for?
I can hazard a guess in Brighton...........  Smile

Broughton, OTOH is just not quite as racy...........

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
I would expect Airbus feels that Brighton has sufficient knowledge and the facilities (thanks to the A400M and A388) that it makes most sense (and least additional cost) to improve them rather then start fresh in France or Germany.

I agree. Which is why I think this is good news for Bri.. sorry, Broughton..  Wink

Regards


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30877 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3910 times:
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"Gopher, not golfer! The little furry thing!" - Caddyshack

Sorry about that.   

[Edited 2007-04-02 18:13:05]

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13184 posts, RR: 77
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3714 times:

As well as the near 40 year experience at these sites, EADS do seek a larger presence in the UK, including for military contracts.
My reading of Power8 is that it seeks to end too much duplication, as much as anything. The UK sites are not duplicating anyone else within Airbus.


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3693 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4):

I'm sure that if Airbus did intend to pull out of the UK, those many(most) posters would quite happily propose that the "teat of direct cash influx" would gladly be proffered by the French or German governments in compensation..........

What many people here on A.net seem to overlook is that the German policy towards state intervention and state ownership is much more similar to the British than to the French.

pelican


User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3588 times:

Don't suppose this announcement has got anything to do with helping BA make up its mind about the 787or 350?

Ruscoe


User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 15):
Don't suppose this announcement has got anything to do with helping BA make up its mind about the 787or 350?

Any particular reason you think it could?

BA is not controlled or influenced by the British Government or British industry - it buys what it needs from whomever will supply the better product at the right price.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13184 posts, RR: 77
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Ruscoe, you'll have to search VERY hard to find correlations with what BA might or might not buy, and UK government industrial policy, such that it is. Over at least the last 30 years.

1977/78 - Hawker and BAC nationalised to form BAe. They re-launch the HS.146, a dormant project, as well as the modernised Jetstream 31. BAC 1-11 still in low rate production.
Also, a formal UK entering of Airbus.

BA order 737's - not the proposed modernised Spey' re-engined, lengthened BAC 1-11-700, which is stillborn.
They also order 757's, not the newly launched A310.
They do not, at least for mainline service for many years, order 146 or J31.

1983 - BA order additional 737's, then later the new -400's, despite the UK at last committing to build the wing of what would become A320

1986 - BA order 767's, not the Airbus offer of a A300-600/A310-300 mix. Airbus also offered R/R engine certification on these types.

Up to this point, BA are still nationalised.

1991 - BA order the 777/GE-90, despite recent launch aid for Trent. Despite the previous launch aid for A330/A340.

1998 - BA order Airbus narrow-bodies, more 777's, this time with Trent since at that time, there was not the higher thrust GE-90 available in the required timescale, improvements to the current offering then, was not deemed sufficient, and yes, the lengthy GE-90 teething problems had not made too many converts, though this was history by 1998.

Pelican - What! You mean all EU nations are not exactly the same on industrial policy? That we all don't move in step all of the time?
You do know that such a notion might be a shock to many on here?


User currently offlineSpruceMoose From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Thread starter):
Airbus is planning a £570 million ($760 million) investment to upgrade composite capability at its Broughton site in the UK, in preparation for its role as final assembly location for the A350XWB wing.



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 5):
I don't understand why Airbus would begin desiging and building a new facility to build new wings, for the A-350, when even Airbus doesn't know what the A-350 is, yet.

It sounds to me like they're investing in the capability. Whether they know for sure how big the wing will be or not, they know it will be composite, and can commit to developing the equipment and process before they're 100% done with the design.

Thanks for the link, Astuteman. Sounds like a nice vote of confidence in Airbus UK.

-SpruceMoose



It flew at an altitude of six feet for a distance of four and a half feet. Then we discovered rain makes it catch fire.
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 16):
BA is not controlled or influenced by the British Government or British industry

Certainly agree not controlled but I would be surprised if influence is not brought into play. Where there is a clear winner, then of course BA will take that winner. It is quite likely however to be a very close and difficult decision to choose between the 787 and 350. This is where influence could be very important. One would expect BA to support UK if it meant no skin off their nose.

Ruscoe


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