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TSA Missed 90% Of Bombs At Denver Airport  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9603 posts, RR: 69
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6608 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

TSA missed 90% of bombs at Denver airport, confiscated 100% of $5 coffees.

from Fark

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=67166&

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6572 times:

Just shows that paying people a lot more, adding a lot of beauraucratic overheads and giving them the protections federal employees enjoy won't automatically ead to better security. All it does is increase expenses. Screening is not a synonym for security, anyway.

User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

Sad. Of all the TSA staff I've encountered, Denver's was the most customer-friendly, even going out of their way to help me during the first "liquids scare". I would have hoped that customer service and effective screening weren't mutually exclusive.

-Rampart


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6489 times:

Well in even a more stupid move by the government, they pubically announced this... sure lets just tell the terrorist that we can't stop these devices. But yet they won't let us know why the put some regulations in place.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17330 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6423 times:

Wow I'm shocked. And by shocked I mean not surprised at all. The DEN TSA leadership is not particularly bright from personal experience but I'm sure it's representative of the entire country. If you think it's bad now, wait until they're unionized Silly


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

Part of the reason security does or doesn't work are the people's desire to not get caught. The fallacy of the "red team" tests is that every one of those people is perfectly willing to get caught because they won't go to jail and they also have the confidence to know that they aren't in any danger. Thus they won't exhibit any suspicious behavior, even under immediate questioning.

It's the old adage, the outcome is changed by measuring it.

This is not to say the TSA is doing a great job. But these types of exercises will undoubtedly create more failures than might occur in reality because of the nature of who are the "red team" to begin with.

Also, with a bomb strapped to your leg, if you think you will get caught, and you're goal is to die a martyr, why would you not just blow yourself up there?

You'd think we'd already have seen such an attack here in the USA, if the intent was just to kill a few people. But the intent is to create a huge, international event that increases support and recruitment back home in foreign lands. And so far, that has not happened. Whether or not the TSA is responsible or it's shear luck, you can debate that, but there is no mistaking that in 5.5 years, there has not been another attack on the air industry in the USA.

In one test, sources told 9NEWS an agent taped an IED to her leg and told the screener it was a bandage from surgery. Even though alarms sounded on the walk-through metal detector, the agent was able to bluff her way past the screener.

While they should have checked the leg better by all means, fast thinking perfect english speaking women are very low on the list of bombing suspects.

These tests seem to be designed as a PC experiment, to take the element of "racial profiling" out of the equation, because "anyone can be a terrorist." This flies in the face of logic. We already harass 80 year old Japanese tourists for no reason for our protection, but now we are devising tests to reinforce that waste of resources.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGraphic From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 3):
Well in even a more stupid move by the government, they pubically announced this...

They didn't publicly announce it. If you read the article, the info was given to 9news by an anonymous source.

Does anybody in the Denver area remember when (I think in 2002) a group of reporters from several of the news agencies (850 KOA, Channel 4) went out to DIA with the sole purpose of busting security, and every one of them was able to get on the ramp without being caught or questioned?


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
You'd think we'd already have seen such an attack here in the USA, if the intent was just to kill a few people. But the intent is to create a huge, international event that increases support and recruitment back home in foreign lands. And so far, that has not happened. Whether or not the TSA is responsible or it's shear luck, you can debate that, but there is no mistaking that in 5.5 years, there has not been another attack on the air industry in the USA.

The truth is we are already screwed if bombmakers are in the country, because there are a lot of easier targets to bomb. Security has to be multilayered, with the first and most important layer being denial of entry, since you can't guarantee that any single layer of domestic security will be even be near 50% sensitive.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6162 times:

Why don't they just use thousands of bomb-sniffing dogs? They're a hell of a lot more effective, are less invasive, and have one hell of a track record.



User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

Another great accomplishment by the TSA!! $6 Billion last year well spent! Keep up the great work Komrade Kip!


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4985 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

Quoting Graphic (Reply 6):
Does anybody in the Denver area remember when (I think in 2002) a group of reporters from several of the news agencies (850 KOA, Channel 4) went out to DIA with the sole purpose of busting security, and every one of them was able to get on the ramp without being caught or questioned?

If the news crew was able to get on the ramp, then it was not entirely the TSA's fault. It is every airport employees job to CHALLENGE, and ensure a secure work environment. Let's face it, it is not just airplanes and airports that are targets to terrorists.

The TSA is not perfect, but they certainly have the opportunity to get better. If a terrorist wanted to target an aircraft, they could do it without even accessing an airport these days. What scares the bejesus out of me is the story of the Akria (I think I spelled that right) plane that had a shoulder fired missile shot at it. That was a real eye opener for me.

If you think the TSA is bad, imagine what the other government agencies lack in. New Orleans was just a taste of our emergency preparedness and reaction abilities to a major terrorist attack or natuaral disaster.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineFloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Wow I'm shocked. And by shocked I mean not surprised at all. The DEN TSA leadership is not particularly bright from personal experience but I'm sure it's representative of the entire country

Remember a few years back when a screener ran himself through the X-Ray machine? I believe that was at DEN.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

Quote:
"There's very little substance to security," said former Red Team leader Bogdan Dzakovic. "It literally is all window dressing that we're doing. It's big theater on TV and when you go to the airport. It's just security theater."

...

Dzakovic, who is currently a TSA inspector, said security is no better today [after 9/11].

"It's worse now. The terrorists can pretty much do what they want when they want to do it," he said.

Totally agree. In my opinion, it's worse today because the security people have to concentrate on confiscating toothpaste instead of confiscating the really dangerous stuff. The new "security rules" appear to be a distraction.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
The fallacy of the "red team" tests is that every one of those people is perfectly willing to get caught because they won't go to jail and they also have the confidence to know that they aren't in any danger. Thus they won't exhibit any suspicious behavior, even under immediate questioning.

True, but you could also argue that a person who has trained for years to become a suicide terrorist would not be scared of getting caught.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Whether or not the TSA is responsible or it's shear luck, you can debate that, but there is no mistaking that in 5.5 years, there has not been another attack on the air industry in the USA.

Some other possible explanations for the lack of successful attacks:
- Intelligence is doing a better job than pre-9/11.
- The terrorists are too busy fighting the USA in Iraq.
- Al-Qaeda has been decimated in Afghanistan.
- Making preparations for an attack like 9/11 could take up to ten years.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
We already harass 80 year old Japanese tourists for no reason for our protection,

Tell me about it! Last year I met an American tourist in Sweden. He was probably around 75-80 years old, he was a typical American elderly man, and he was almost deaf. When he changed planes in London, they took away the batteries from his hearing aid!!!

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 10):
Akria

Arkia.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlineOly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 12):
Some other possible explanations for the lack of successful attacks:
- Intelligence is doing a better job than pre-9/11.


From what I've read, Intelligence was doing a better job before 9/11 as well, but FBI agents weren't allowed to follow up on their investigations that could have stopped the attacks.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,249997,00.html
http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_2469.shtml
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/an...-fbi-agent-blows-the-whistle/3706/



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 604 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5789 times:
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Doesn't surprise me, TSA is pretty bad (sorry if anyone here works for TSA). I flew last week and the lady at the ticket counter accidently gave me the wrong boarding pass; three TSA agents checked my boarding pass and ID at the checkpoint and not one of them noticed the discrepency. (This was at BOS). Once they realized I was flying to company headquarters (I work for 9K) all they cared about was shooting the breeze instead of doing their job.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17330 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5658 times:

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 11):
Remember a few years back when a screener ran himself through the X-Ray machine? I believe that was at DEN.

Sure was!


I wonder if I can dish on the idiocy of the DEN (and other) TSA that I had to deal with at my previous line of work. I don't work for that carrier anymore and the programs I was involved with is done but I'm not sure if it's ok. On the one hand, their unbelievable incompetence should be brought to light, but on the other hand I don't want to end up in Guantanamo Silly.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineJustplanecrazy From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 11):

Perhaps he wasn't sure wether he had a brain.
What happened to him?



your pilots today on this 747 flight are captain oliver hardy and assisting will be FO stan laurel.Have a safe flight
User currently offlineBHMBAGLOCK From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
TSA missed 90% of bombs at Denver airport, confiscated 100% of $5 coffees.

But they're definitely there to tell you about the Native American imagery of the artwork in your carry on. There! I feel better now. Not!



Where are all of my respected members going?
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

TSA scores 10% in DEN? For a job that requires 100% in order to "pass".....they certainly have their work cut out for them.

TSA is like the snickering jock in the back of Algebra class, who turns in his tests with nothing more than his name on the paper.


User currently offlineSmashme33 From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

This does not surprise me...don't they usually flunk their tests? After 9/11, so many departments, agencies, and big brothers were added in "response to terrorism", the most useless and bureaucratic being the TSA. The addition of this department did not ensure that things would be better or safer. I think normal people are hassled by TSA at the airport in order to give the impression that they are doing the good job that their own propaganda says they're doing.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
Whether or not the TSA is responsible or it's shear luck, you can debate that, but there is no mistaking that in 5.5 years, there has not been another attack on the air industry in the USA.

I'll debate...TSA is not the reason that there has not been another airline bomb or jet/side of building tragedy in the US. There may not ever be another one, because the terrorists are now just going to let the USA tear itself apart with ridiculous post 9/11 laws, unconstitutional policies, and something that the TSA well promotes...fear(through its propagana).

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 13):
From what I've read, Intelligence was doing a better job before 9/11 as well, but FBI agents weren't allowed to follow up on their investigations that could have stopped the attacks.

I'm quoting this piece above because it speaks volumes about the state of security in the US, and how it can be linked to anyone who would want to abuse and/or profit from it.


User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting Smashme33 (Reply 19):
I'll debate...TSA is not the reason that there has not been another airline bomb or jet/side of building tragedy in the US. There may not ever be another one, because the terrorists are now just going to let the USA tear itself apart with ridiculous post 9/11 laws, unconstitutional policies, and something that the TSA well promotes...fear(through its propagana).

The lack of TSA was not the reason 9/11 happened. 9/11 happened because the terrorists knew that then-existing airline policies made it virtually certain that the act of taking over an airplane in flight would succeed - even if the only weapon the terrorists were armed with were ball point pens held to the throat of a flight attendant.

We have allowed the federal government to create the illusion of security through TSA, when in fact we could have easily upgraded airport security - and made it more effective - for a fraction of the cost.

Instead, we now have another bloated ineffective federal bureaucracy that will only get worse once the democrats unionize it.


User currently offlineAerLingusA330 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

TSA .....Thousands Standing Around


Shamrock 136 heavy cleared for takeoff runway niner.
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting AerLingusA330 (Reply 21):
TSA .....Thousands Standing Around

you forgot to add "useless" at the end.  biggrin 


User currently offlineSuseJ772 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 814 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Wow, I guess people on this board don't think much of the TSA. Frankly, I think they have a very hard job with an incredible challenge: moving thousands of people through a process that should take 20 minutes (*cough* Tel Aviv) in about 30 seconds.

It's like when I watch people on the News complain about "the Airlines." I am always like, look, running an airline is a hard job. First you have to lower fares to play the supply/demand game. Then in order to actually make a thin profit you have to remove elements that aren't necessary. Then you get some jackal on the news complaining about how "flying the airlines these days are so barbaric," but didn't mention that he paid $200 roundtrip ATL-NYC.

I think whether you work for TSA or an airline, you have a hard job. And as a member of the flying public (not TSA or airline employee nor is anyone in my family or friends), I am going to continue cutting them some slack.



Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 954 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3455 times:

I had no idea that Denver was such a hot bed of bomber activity. But I like to look at the good job TSA does, rather than dwell on the bad. After all, they were able to find 10%. That should put the fear of god into a determined suicide bomber any day.

Jeez. And we pay these people? And they have the chutzpah to want to be unionized so they can never be fired? Please tell me this is an April Fool's Day story!



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
25 Halls120 : Good for you. Just remember that their presence in all likelihood won't prevent another terrorist takeover of an aircraft - armed pilots, armed air m
26 Aogdesk : You people are all glass half empty people. The good news is that 10% of the bombs were found. We are 10% safer because of it. (Yes....I'm being sarca
27 Post contains images Smashme33 :       Yep, now that the feds have taken over, we can all be "officially" harassed. It's a shame that the US government has played on the fears an
28 YYZYYT : I would add, to a dedicated suicide bomber, there is also no fear of getting caught: just different outcomes that all lead to the same place... I can
29 Remcor : I think the debate about whether racial profiling is PC or not is moot. Using racial profiling to single out certain ethnic groups is simply bad secu
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