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US Will Get The A340!  
User currently offlineMu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36405 times:

Today on Crew News Scott Kirby stated that US will acquire A340-500s BEFORE the China route is given out. He said they are looking at other routes to fly them on in case China isn't awarded. PHX to some over sea destination is one that they are looking at in this case. It is my understanding that US will get A340s no matter what.

Anyone else see this on the Hub? What do you get out of it?

167 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTZ757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2869 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36420 times:

Quoting Mu2 (Thread starter):
What do you get out of it?

Ummm, April Fools?

If not, some kind of link would be nice. But I must say, this isnt bad news, if its true



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineMu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36312 times:

I can't give you a link. It's on our employee website, and you need a password for that. He said it on a recorded video so I don't think I can find anything in writing but I'll look.

User currently offlineFunflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36202 times:

where on the hub do I find this video?


Who cares about status?
User currently offlineMu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 36128 times:

Under Crew News. Click on 3/22. All kinds of cool stuff!

Scott also said they are looking for more A330s!


User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 35962 times:

Brilliant! Lets just hope they have the decency to not pack people into the A-345 like they do into the A-333. I will sing Parker's praises quite often, but the seating situation in the A-333 is absurd... so absurd the 757 is actually the more comfortable option! I fear what type of damage they can do with the 345 for 18 hour flights.


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineFuturecaptain From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 35938 times:

Is this in addition to the A350's or can we assume that order is cancelled and the deposits were converted to the A345?

It will be interesting to see this bird takeoff, fully laden with fuel for a long haul in summer in PHX. The LH A340 and BA 747 can really eat up runway there too.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 35911 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 6):
Is this in addition to the A350's or can we assume that order is cancelled and the deposits were converted to the A345?

Those A345 would be the ex AC ones not new ones I presume?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31118 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 35884 times:
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Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 6):
Is this in addition to the A350's or can we assume that order is cancelled and the deposits were converted to the A345?

Maybe they're taking AC's? I believe Boeing will take AC's if they can't find a lessor so perhaps Airbus will be "buying them back" to lease to US until the A350XWB's enter service (in exchange, of course, for the A350XWB order).


User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 35880 times:

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 6):
Is this in addition to the A350's or can we assume that order is cancelled and the deposits were converted to the A345?

I'm no authority on the subject, but this has to be in addition to what ever next-gen 2 engine aircraft they will be buying, since it seems they haven't made up their mind entirely yet anyway.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineLHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35762 times:

Personally I think LH is more likely to restart their FRA-PHX-FRA flight than having US start it up. They tried before and failed, yet now it has more potential with PHX being a Star hub so they should have an easier time filling up an A343. However, I'm sure the A343s were weight restricted, but I don't know of the severity of these restrictions.

A US A345. I'm not a big fan of the A333 in the NC, I can't imagine that an A345 would look any better.


User currently offlineMu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35648 times:

He said expect an announcement in April for the A350 and A32xs or B787 and B73Xs. I believe he said A350 would be delivered in 2011 and the 787s in 2009.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31118 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35613 times:
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Quoting Mu2 (Reply 15):
He said expect an announcement in April for the A350 and A32xs or B787 and B73Xs. I believe he said A350 would be delivered in 2011 and the 787s in 2009.

Well he can't get A350XWBs before 2013 at the earliest, even if he is #1 (which US isn't), because that is the earliest possible time the plane will be available for delivery. Only way for them to get 787's in 2009 is if they already hold some delivery positions for that year.


User currently offlineMu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35524 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
Well he can't get A350XWBs before 2013 at the earliest, even if he is #1 (which US isn't), because that is the earliest possible time the plane will be available for delivery. Only way for them to get 787's in 2009 is if they already hold some delivery positions for that year.

Maybe he said 2011 and 2013. I'll check again tomorrow.

I US not still a launch customer for the A350?


User currently offlineBallsdeep From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35487 times:

Wow! How many are they getting and what routes other than China could they use them for? I would love to see that bird in Phoenix.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31118 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35455 times:
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Quoting Mu2 (Reply 18):
I US not still a launch customer for the A350?



They still have an outstanding order for 20 of the original A350s which they either need to cancel or convert (to the A350XWB or another Airbus product).


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 35377 times:

Quoting Mu2 (Reply 15):
I believe he said A350 would be delivered in 2011 and the 787s in 2009.

In next few weeks he said that they will be announcing who they will be going with. The 787s would start delivery in 2011 and the 350s would not be here till 2013. For the interim they will be taking as many 340-500s and 330-300/200s that they can get their hands on.

IMHO Boeing will get the order, US can't wait for an A/C that still may never fly to be delivered. Also who ever gets the order for the 20 firm and options for wide bodies will also get the narrow body order. Hopefully they will work some deal out for the order.


User currently offlineMah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 35120 times:

US will use A345's from PHL, not from PHX (except PHX-FRA perhaps). They recognize how powerful the PHL international market has been for them and will continue to expand it.

User currently offlineAC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 34829 times:

www.yyznews.com Has stated that US is looking at ACs A340s to buy or lease from AC

"Fleet Renewal ---with the imminent deliveries of the new Boeing 777s this summer the airline is looking to return more of its Airbus A340 fleet to lessors. US Airways Group is in talks to buy or lease planes from Air Canada. The talks are aimed at providing US Airways with jets able to fly nonsto9p to China. US Airways is one of several U.S. carriers vying for new route authority to China."



Member since April 2000
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34493 times:

I suppose if you have been hoping to see the A340 opperated by a U.S. airline, you are finally getting your chance. I find this a very questionable move by US.

1. Examine the equipment in question. AC is dumping their A345. TG is dumping their A345. SQ has canceled their A345 options and commented that yields on ULH are not favorable. What is the common denominator? If the performance is such that growth opportunities with the A345 are so limited, what looks rosy from US' perspective? I certainly hope US is getting a bargain on these young aircraft...

2. US is ordering these aircraft on the speculative hopes they obtain authority for China routes. US is far from a shoe-in for potential China rights. If US doesn't get the route, where will the A345 be used? It would be terribly suited for Europe versus the A330. They would have to find some other non-China Asian market to serve from the East-Coast, which is easier said than done.

3. I explicitly refrained from mentioning the 777 in the two points above, but if US wants to serve Asia and can't wait for new-build aircraft, there are 772ER available for lease in the world. With all the hype the 777LR has received of late, let's not forget what a tremendous aircraft the 656-klb 772ER still is. CO has proven for several years that the 772ER is capable of U.S. East Coast - China with strong yields. Just food for thought....


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34257 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 20):
2. US is ordering these aircraft on the speculative hopes they obtain authority for China routes. US is far from a shoe-in for potential China rights. If US doesn't get the route, where will the A345 be used? It would be terribly suited for Europe versus the A330. They would have to find some other non-China Asian market to serve from the East-Coast, which is easier said than done.

I suppose they could try India, though they wouldn't have the advantage with China routes of limited US-China capacity due US-India open skies. In general, I am skeptical of PHL as a major O&D city despite its size.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34186 times:

Quoting Ballsdeep (Reply 14):
How many are they getting and what routes other than China could they use them for?



Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 17):
US will use A345's from PHL, not from PHX

Hawaii?
They could try Australia and New Zealand....

South America? I don't know if there are any available authorities to the places they'd want to go in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and Colombia.

Middle East/Asia? Dubai, Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Tel Aviv, Delhi, Bombay. Or they could really think outside the box and go into Bangalore or Calcutta!

Africa? Lagos, Cairo, Johannesburg, Nairobi, Luanda?

East Asia? Anywhere in Japan but Tokyo, Seoul, Taipei, Bangkok, Singapore....the latter two would require a non-standard cabin which US is most likely not up for.

But to be honest, I am just throwing names out there....very few if any of these make any real sense from Philadephia

The reality is that anywhere US places these aircraft, they are going to be in direct competition with a whole lot of existing service from airports very close by. (JFK, EWR, IAD)

So the question is; Does US chase after established routes flown by existing domestic and int'l carriers from the airports in the region?, or do they go out and blaze new trails?

So the 345 has anywhere from 2500nm to 3000nm greater range than the 333.....What does that get them that they cannot already do....besides the obvious China routes which they may not even get?

Even though I will be shouted down, these aircraft will make the most sense flying from PHX and LAS to Frankfurt, Gatwick, and maybe Paris/Amsterdam. These markets are big enough to support the service on other merits than just leisure. The size of Phoenix alone would make one think there should a bit more European service than there is currently. Going the other way, PHX/LAS to Manila, Seoul, and Osaka/Nagoya could be a good start. Even Sydney makes more sense from PHX/LAS than it does PHL.

All in all, it is a very curious acquisition for an event that might not even happen.



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User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34028 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 20):
there are 772ER available for lease in the world

I think the main driving reason for US opting for the 340-500 is that this is not a permanent addition to the fleet. The plan as I see it to just use the 340s until the 787s (God forbid they wait for Airbus to build the 350) are online.

If US were to go with the 777 the would need an entirely new maintenance department. Not to forget that all new simulators, ground ops procedures, and in flight training would be needed. Along with all that the a group of flight crews would be devoted to nothing but the hand full of 777s in the fleet. That adds up to a lot of money for basically what will be a short term "bridge" A/C. There would be limited chance

I would love to see 777s in US's livery more than anyone else, but the 340-500 is a better fit for what they need it for. The 340s can be operated by the same ground, maintenance and in flight crews as the 330-300 with limited difference training. US needs wide bodies bad, they've needed them for the past few years. The 340s and 333s will allow US to move forward in the international market until they get whatever it is they decide on.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34027 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 20):
I find this a very questionable move by US.

Questionable move would be to create another subfleet of 2 777s. We know that A345 is not as efficient as 772LR but it is still a modern aircraft. The key factor will be the price. If the price is right they should not hesitate and get them.


User currently offlineLASOctoberB6 From Japan, joined Nov 2006, 2380 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 33934 times:

just please tell me that US will send the A345 to LAS.....


[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
25 PM : I admit I'd be a bit surprised if it happened but I wouldn't rule it out. 1. Those two AC A345s have got to go somewhere. 2. It can't be a plane in ve
26 DfwRevolution : That isn't how aircraft ownership works these days.... Who doesn't? But as is all too often the case in aviation and relationships, hastily prepared
27 Mariner : I think it would be a good move. I've always enjoyed my flights on the A340. "hastily prepared"? I would guess they've been talking about it - and wit
28 Danny : Assuming that they want to fly long-haul out of PHX with no payload restrictions and they want to keep fleet commonality then A345 seems just ideal.
29 Kaitak744 : No, it is fact. It is also fact that South African agreed to buy them. They have already ordered the A340-500 replacement. The 787-9. (I say that in
30 PM : Well, I've read all the speculation on A.Net but I don't recall any "facts". If you have some, I'd love to hear them. Which will start to be delivere
31 Ikramerica : This is damn cool if true. US is likely going to be leasing these 345s, and my guess is they are leasing them as part of a 787 deal with Boeing. The 7
32 Jetfuel : A very smart move. SYD-Anywhere but LAX is a winner
33 Post contains images Ikramerica : Is SYD-PHX really a winner? SYD-LAS would be...
34 Centrair : I bet they could negoitate a slot at NRT in the way that AM did but it would be a challenge. NGO is open and so is KIX. NRT has the best O&D for Japan
35 Post contains images BAtriple7 : Would we see tghe A345s on any European routes? Would there be enough demand? On another note, it'll be great to see US livery on an A340!
36 Post contains images RJ111 : Sorry for the inanity of this post but A) It's nice to see a US airline operate the A340 finally and B) It's a shame we won't see the A340-500 in US's
37 Ikramerica : Who knows, maybe US can bat cleanup for the whole Star Alliance and take SQ's 345s in the future, too?
38 ANstar : SQ, TG etc operate their A345's on ULH routes and don;t really have a dense configuration. USA-China is not ULH and I'm sure US could config the plan
39 Byrdluvs747 : US would get killed on US-SYD routes. As there can only be two "Established Carriers" between the states and SYD, US would be limited to about 4 dail
40 Jetfuel : I think SYD-LAS would be a niche market with connections to anywhere
41 Melpax : again, MEL-SYD to anywhere but LAX would do well, as people here are absoutly sick of having to tranist thru LAX & having to deal with the mean & arr
42 Post contains images SEPilot : Judging by the number of carriers dumping A340's my initial reaction is that this was a dumb move. However, initial reactions are often wrong, and th
43 EnviroTO : I think a LAS-SYD or PHX-SYD would work if the approvals are there and the flight is timed for good connections to the rest of the country. I would ce
44 EI321 : For some reason, US is one of the last airlines that I could have seen getting A340-500s! Of all the American carriers, I would have thought NW would
45 PM : I know what you mean. I think it's because I still think of them (wrongly) as a purely or very largely domestic carrier. (I still remember when Piedm
46 Post contains images Norcal773 : This is way cool. I'd love to see them acquire the A345's. Well, doesn't SQ have to actually sign the dotted line for the A350 first? They're only get
47 VictorKilo : The only international gates at LAS are in Terminal 2, a charter terminal. Any passengers making connections would have to re-clear security at Termi
48 RJ111 : That means SA will be the first airline to have operated all 4 variants of the A340. Not sure if that will end up being similtaneously.
49 Jfk777 : Thai and Singapore airlines may not be making money from 18 hour flights but an A340-500 on an 8 hour flight is different. AN A345 may not be a effici
50 Airbazar : They won't be operating any 18 hour flights. IIRC, they want to start PHL-China/Japan and possibly PHX-Europe. Those are 12-14 hour flights, max.
51 Jholiiday : I wonder if there's any possibility of them taking some of the VS A346 order, in addition to, or instead. Aren't the economics a bit better?
52 Jdwfloyd : So what you are saying is that US would not need to have any parts on hand for the 777, and the maintenance workers would not need any type of pre-wr
53 Norcal773 : With your argument, you can use a 747 on PHX-OAK route all day and make a ton of money but carriers don't do that. There's no point of getting a ULH
54 Gigneil : It reeaaallly isn't because it weighs so much more than an A343. Where it makes sense is PHL-Asia or PHX-Europe. PHL-Europe would suffer a huge fuel
55 Rwylie77 : Why are people suggesting that US will buy from Boeing? I thought Airbus provided a big slab of finance to US to help with coming out of Chapter 11...
56 Gigneil : The Airbus loan has been repaid and there is no obligation associated with it. NS
57 Ikramerica : Because US said as much, that's why. They made it quite clear that they repaid Airbus and they have NO obligation to buy from them. Further, they als
58 KL808 : Wow thats news to me. I didn't know US paid that loan already. Anyways, I see Rwylie77's point though. I agree Gigneil that US is under no obligation
59 Jcf5002 : All I have to add to this is that its good to see US Airways truly making an effort to NOT use US aircraft... You'd think there'd be some national pri
60 Ikramerica : And how does more A330s contradict that. The statement from US is that they want more A330s. The original A350 they wanted was going to come in 2011.
61 Gigneil : Um, firstly, national pride is bullshit and has no place in business. Secondly, more of an Airbus plane is made in the United States than a 787. What
62 Post contains images Steeler83 : As soon as US receives these birds, I would like to shoot over to PHL for some spotting!
63 KL808 : My statement doesn't contradict any of yours, im just saying that I think they will stick to the A350 order and not order the B787 per your suggestio
64 Multimark : The A345 is a fine plane, its just that its 777 counterpart is a better one. It doesn't mean US or anybody is getting stuck with "junk". If US can ass
65 Thegooddoctor : Here's a question - how does the A345 compare for gate space and what Terminal 4 (PHX) gates or LAS gates are capable of taking an aircraft of that si
66 SEPilot : It comes down to how much the extra fuel and maintenance for the A345's will cost over the time US has them versus how much more they would spend to
67 Jlbmedia : Isn't USAirways required to have a Long range service up and running for it to be considered for the US to China route? If this is true then time is a
68 Norcal773 : yeah sure Ha haa, One of the most naive quote I've ever read on this forum.
69 Elcapi1980 : I am waiting just to see the 340-500 right next to the speedbird here at phx.....it will be fun.....
70 Airlinespotter : Any chance we will see these new birds in Charlotte? What are the differences between A340-500 and the other A340s? Thanks in advance.
71 Sebring : Just a few thoughts. Others will be more detailed and probably more accurate. The A340-500/600s are larger than the A340-300/200, and have longer ran
72 Post contains links Treebeard787 : Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 66): I am pretty sure gates B-25 and B-26 and possibly B-27 in PHX could handle the A345's, Although, Once the new south
73 Jcf5002 : It was tongue in cheek.. sorry for the dry humor, although I will admit that I am not a fan of Airbus' aircraft... Okay, so I hate them, but that's n
74 HighFlyer9790 : Will the Non-A345s replace the 767s in a few years? although they carry more pax, i can see US going all-airbus.
75 Post contains images LTBEWR : With the 340's, US could capitalize on those fraidy flyers that believe '4 engines 4 long haul'. Seriously, if they can get a good enough purchase/lea
76 Thegooddoctor : Makes sense - but already there's a bit of demand on these gates (at least if things are the same as they were 6 years ago). Furthermore, the south c
77 Atmx2000 : That usually only applies when PW or GE engines are specified on Airbus aircraft. And remember that is only because of avionics and other subsystems
78 Byrdluvs747 : Well I quoted the max in the assumption they would try to get more that just two A345's.
79 Mah584jr : Like i've said before, I'm just not sure there is enough demand in PHX to fill an A345. The aircraft is simply to large for any European route. More
80 Vega : This is really not new news. US is considering acquiring the 2 AC A340-500s (range at ideal = 9000nm, capacity 270-300) and using them to fly the anti
81 Post contains images Ikramerica : Agreed. I didn't mean to suggest they WOULD order the 787, only that they are completely free to do so and the 787 has a good chance. I think the 201
82 Vega : No, "the point is", the reason US has no further obligation to acquire the 350 has nothing to do with repaying the loan - as you stated. Even if the
83 LASOctoberB6 : im pretty sure A14 at LAS can handle an A345, be sure to bring the proper towbar, just ask LH....
84 Whappeh : My only "gripe" about using the 345 at PHX is that International travel has some much more of a prestige then regular Domestic travel, no matter which
85 Gigneil : I believe the best strategy for US would be to acquire as much of the AC A340 fleet as possible, and get moving on routes, otherwise the industry is g
86 Post contains images Dank : This is a great opportunity for US. You get a good deal on aircraft which may not be at the top of their class, but are far from being uneconomical t
87 Steeler83 : I don't see drawing from 5 mln people as a problem, nor from connecting pax on over 400 flights out of PHL. If they want to cherry pick from NYC, esp
88 Post contains images PM : PLUS you get more RR engines!
89 Post contains images Malaysia : I still want to see CLT-VTE with this plane
90 Post contains images Dank : Those rollers on the 345/346 do look nice .
91 Ikramerica : Whatever man. You are misreading what I'm saying, and that's your right.
92 Flighty : Yeah, Hong Kong is certainly an option, and considering it's in China, it would be ample demonstration that US can carry things off operationally. Bu
93 Vega : Assuming your points are arguably valid - and I think they have merit from my perspective. The DOT has many times advertised that their criteria for
94 XT6Wagon : A good many (most?) 345's have done just that for their owners. Lost money flying that is. The most telling thing about how great a failure the 340NG
95 Dank : This, I think, is more the result of the fact that ultra-long haul flying isn't all that profitable (i.e. flying at the limits of the range of the 77
96 XT6Wagon : Its a combination that the 345 is only better than the 343 at massively long ranges, and that most massively long routes do not have the demand to su
97 Gigneil : That's not really true, is it. They're not that different... the 777-200ER powered by a Trent is pretty much just as different as an A340-500 and an
98 Flighty : Ya the fuel burn is not that big of a deal. It's only part of the costs... in the context of this scenario, only a small part. Even if 777LR were ava
99 PM : Is that speculation or do you have any evidence? I don't find this very convincing. You may as well say that because NZ bought and leased 8 777-200ER
100 EI321 : Yeah, right, just like ''The most telling thing about how great a failure the 777X program was is the continued sales of the 772ER to even this day.'
101 RJ111 : Might just be that the A343 wasn't that bad a plane after all. Either way the an A343's mission optimisation (medium-demand B-market routes) does not
102 EI321 : Orders so far A340-600 121 (Does this include the EK order?) A345-500 32 The programme reputably cost $2.9b. If we ignore the Aerolineas Argentinas o
103 Trex8 : different engines and wing makes it "virtually 100%" same, then the A343 -A345 is only a little different!
104 Post contains images USAF336TFS : Correct... Boeing claims that 75% of the 787 is U.S. sourced. I must admit I don't know how they reached that figure, but considering all the subsyst
105 Thorben : This includes 3 for AC, 6 for Aerolineas Arg. and 18 for EK. $2.9 bil. before the HGW came about. However, around $20 million at a list price of more
106 USAF336TFS : An Example of which.. Fair Use: bizjournals.com GKN delivers 787 floor assembly Thursday April 5, 3:44 pm ET A special 20-foot-wide flatbed trailer m
107 NW748i : One of the few ways that Parker could lose my respect is for him to wait on the A350... Where does HKG fit into the current U.S.-China bilateral? I'm
108 Jfk777 : If US is to diversify internationally that means going to Asia. Given they have no gateway in California there entry to Asia would probably start on t
109 AC77W : If AC is getting rid of theirs and US is getting A340 that means the US will be the only North American carrier of the airbus
110 BinMonster : They could try PHX - HNL - NGO
111 Steeler83 : Didn't HP try something like that with the 747? I think the 747s went to HNL from PHX and/or LAS, but I forget where they went from there. Even at th
112 WorldTraveler : probably the best post in this thread and yet many dismiss it .. because no one likes to hear the truth. Let's face it. US had never once told the DO
113 Graphic : Any idea on a date for aquiring the first ship?
114 Treebeard787 : HP did in fact fly to NGO, it routed PHX/LAS-HNL-NGO with a B742. This flight actually went out with 1 passenger on a 747! It was miserable failure f
115 Post contains images Whappeh : Yes because that holds true for Lufthansa, South African, TAP, LAN and all the other airlines that fly A-340s.
116 Vega : My earlier post replies to most of your questions. Mind telling me where US could obtain 3, or even 2 777-200ERs for lease within the next 3 or 4 mon
117 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : Ahhh, gotta love those who keep history in mind! It's just unfortunate when the context is so poorly applied I think even the greatest pessimists wil
118 Flighty : Yes, PHX is a big enough city for NRT service now, but the problem is... PHX is in such a bad location to serve as a hub to Asia. It is too far south
119 Trex8 : I think the quote was more like 75% value because when airframe structure is 35% Japanese and 12% Italian and there are the potentially Rolls engines
120 USAF336TFS : I see your point and it's well taken, but someone might suggest that while those subassemblies are assembled in those respective countries, their sub
121 Post contains images Steeler83 : Holy jeeez! I think that last statement can be left out. With only one pax on ANY plane, that's a failure!! I really have to at that one out loud! I
122 Post contains images Steeler83 : Holy jeeez! I think that last statement can be left out. With only one pax on ANY plane, that's a failure!! I really have to        at that one
123 LCFreeman49 : IMO US Airways will fail at getting PHL to China Authority. I am amazed at how in their petition they mentioned Delta several times. Lets face it any
124 Whappeh : A lot of other airlines had problems with Delta's early petition to the DOT if I recall, not just US Airways.
125 Vega : Isn't that because the post, accurate or otherwise, completely agrees with your agenda? Both of my earlier posts answered all of the statements posed
126 WorldTraveler : you answer your question beautifully. US cannot come up with an aircraft on less than one year's notice to begin serving Asia and be competitive. I h
127 Ophila : I am not a fan of Delta nor US, but your biasness amazes me sometimes.... Philly has the 2nd largest Asian community on the east coast. Despite being
128 Ikramerica : It will cost more to fly the route, but the lower acquisition costs of a medium term second hand lease should make that difference a wash when combin
129 Atmx2000 : And yet no Asia airline flies there, including ANA, a Star Alliance carrier. One has to ask why PHL gets little attention from large foreign carriers
130 Steeler83 : Ohhhh, but there is international O&D at PHL. It has the 2nd largest Asian market there as Ophila stated, but how about Asia-based businesses? I am s
131 Usairways85 : While i agree with your statement, in general it seems PHL is overlooked by many international carriers. For being a city of PHL's size and only have
132 WorldTraveler : the point remains that no Asian route can survive on the merits of the O&D from any one city. And US is very poorly positioned to compete against much
133 Atmx2000 : Actually, I would imagine plenty of West Coast cities can support Asian routes on O&D alone. Wasn't little old SJC supporting an AA route to NRT with
134 WorldTraveler : The 787 is a game changer and will make a lot of flights work that don't now. And those west coast cities that could support a single flight are also
135 MCOflyer : They will use them where they fit. Most likely a PHX-FRA flight will be one and PHL-TLV will be another. While the 340's would be a perfect stop gap
136 WorldTraveler : I have no doubt that the 787 would be a great aircraft for US to use to develop both PHX and PHL as transpac gateways. And while US waits for its 787
137 Ophila : PHL has been overlooked for several reasons...space...ground handling ... & fueling problems ie..until WN arrival into PHL there was only one fueling
138 LurveBus : There are about as many transpacs utilizing the A340 as 777s. While UA, CO, KE, OZ, and BR fly the T7 on some their transpac routes, CX, SQ, TG, PR,
139 WorldTraveler : I didn't ask about the number of carriers flying the 340, I asked about the number of flights operated. The carriers you list also fly other aircraft
140 Flighty : Oh brother. The A340 is a fine jet. It is well known for its comfort. Not the fastest, but the A345 is capable of missions that will make the 777-200E
141 LurveBus : I know. And the 340 does make just as many flights. The carriers I listed as flying the T7 transpac also fly other aircraft.
142 Atmx2000 : There is only a 200nm difference between PHL-PVG and ATL-PVG. The distance between the ATL and PHL is almost 600 nm. Basically almost all of the Sout
143 WorldTraveler : The 772LR, not the 772ER, is the comparable aircraft to the A345. On that basis, the 772LR outruns the A345. It will fly SQ's current 345 routes w/ a
144 Flighty : Okay say you're in Lexington. Sure, you are closer to ATL. However, LEX-Shanghai is a longer journey thru ATL than thru PHL. Not by much, but it is a
145 WorldTraveler : all of these arguments about circuiity are clearly for internet discussions and not the real world. A 200 mile difference could easily be compensated
146 Dank : I highly doubt that the 772LR would be dramatically more profitable on that route (more profitable in as lightly configured a load, yes, but not dram
147 XT6Wagon : uh so more passengers, more cargo, and less fuel = no better?
148 Dank : I didn't say "no better." I had said, "dramatically more profitable." I would have to be convinced that it would actually do the full density SQ conf
149 Post contains images Atmx2000 : I agree that LEX is closer to PVG via PHL than ATL. But you said The actual fact is that most of the Southeast is at least 200 nm closer to ATL. The
150 RJ777 : Can someone maybe drop a hint as to what this bird MIGHT look? (Photoshop)
151 Jholiiday : The city of Philadelphia has been expanding at a dramatic rate for the past few years, with lots of Pharmaceutical and Tech companies - flights to Asi
152 Vega : The DOT could care less about catchment size. The award of the China route will be based on which community will economically benefit the most from t
153 StarGoldLHR : PHX has a large "real" indian community, a flight to Delhi or Bangalore would make a lot of sense and the country is underserved in general. Given th
154 Post contains links and images N776AU : It's not great, but this is a -600 that I threw together abolut a year ago: Modified Airliner Photos:Design © N776AUTemplate © Chris Liao
155 Dank : They don't fly 333s, they fly 332s. I'm not sure that the 333 would do it. But a 343 would be a better choice than a 345 (that said, one could wait f
156 Post contains images Mk777 : Well if US does acquire the 2 A345s, they should tap the china and/or the Indian market. Already, slots at the major airports in India (DEL, BOM etc)
157 F9Animal : Actually, the flight never went out with 1 pax onboard. It did indeed have light loads, but it was not a good time for them to aim for the route. HP
158 TropicBird : I seem to recall reading that what tipped the DOT to award the new IAD to China route to UAL was that they were providing the "most" seats in that mar
159 SkyexRamper : As a posed to a fake one?
160 Post contains images IADguy73 : PHL-LHR?
161 Steeler83 : So few??? How about ZERO!! If you really want to know how I feel about the use of PIT, check out the PIT threads "What's going on at PIT?". I do not
162 Atmx2000 : Well, if you define it that way ok. But I tend to think of Canada as another country.
163 Dank : With a 345? Why? It wouldn't deliver much more than the 333 can to LON. While I fully expect US to want to switch PHL service to LHR from LGW, I woul
164 Whappeh : Out side chance, when extra 340s come on the market or when the 332s come into play of a PHL-HNL?
165 Post contains images Steeler83 : Which is why I defined it that way PIT has non-stop service to 3 international places: Canada, Mexico, and the Dominican Republic. (SJU is not intern
166 Post contains images Vega : Well maybe. If US configured the 340-500 with 377 all Economy seats and each flight was at least 50% sold to big Tour companies, or corporations - th
167 Dank : I think you bring up some good points here. My guess is upgauging some of the US (west) HNL routes to bigger aircraft would happen before trying Phil
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