Mu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 36528 times:
Today on Crew News Scott Kirby stated that US will acquire A340-500s BEFORE the China route is given out. He said they are looking at other routes to fly them on in case China isn't awarded. PHX to some over sea destination is one that they are looking at in this case. It is my understanding that US will get A340s no matter what.
Anyone else see this on the Hub? What do you get out of it?
Whappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 36085 times:
Brilliant! Lets just hope they have the decency to not pack people into the A-345 like they do into the A-333. I will sing Parker's praises quite often, but the seating situation in the A-333 is absurd... so absurd the 757 is actually the more comfortable option! I fear what type of damage they can do with the 345 for 18 hour flights.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31679 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 36007 times:
Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 6): Is this in addition to the A350's or can we assume that order is cancelled and the deposits were converted to the A345?
Maybe they're taking AC's? I believe Boeing will take AC's if they can't find a lessor so perhaps Airbus will be "buying them back" to lease to US until the A350XWB's enter service (in exchange, of course, for the A350XWB order).
LHboyatDTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 35885 times:
Personally I think LH is more likely to restart their FRA-PHX-FRA flight than having US start it up. They tried before and failed, yet now it has more potential with PHX being a Star hub so they should have an easier time filling up an A343. However, I'm sure the A343s were weight restricted, but I don't know of the severity of these restrictions.
A US A345. I'm not a big fan of the A333 in the NC, I can't imagine that an A345 would look any better.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31679 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 35736 times:
Quoting Mu2 (Reply 15): He said expect an announcement in April for the A350 and A32xs or B787 and B73Xs. I believe he said A350 would be delivered in 2011 and the 787s in 2009.
Well he can't get A350XWBs before 2013 at the earliest, even if he is #1 (which US isn't), because that is the earliest possible time the plane will be available for delivery. Only way for them to get 787's in 2009 is if they already hold some delivery positions for that year.
Mu2 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 35647 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 17): Well he can't get A350XWBs before 2013 at the earliest, even if he is #1 (which US isn't), because that is the earliest possible time the plane will be available for delivery. Only way for them to get 787's in 2009 is if they already hold some delivery positions for that year.
Maybe he said 2011 and 2013. I'll check again tomorrow.
Jdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 35500 times:
Quoting Mu2 (Reply 15): I believe he said A350 would be delivered in 2011 and the 787s in 2009.
In next few weeks he said that they will be announcing who they will be going with. The 787s would start delivery in 2011 and the 350s would not be here till 2013. For the interim they will be taking as many 340-500s and 330-300/200s that they can get their hands on.
IMHO Boeing will get the order, US can't wait for an A/C that still may never fly to be delivered. Also who ever gets the order for the 20 firm and options for wide bodies will also get the narrow body order. Hopefully they will work some deal out for the order.
AC777LR From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 487 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 34952 times:
www.yyznews.com Has stated that US is looking at ACs A340s to buy or lease from AC
"Fleet Renewal ---with the imminent deliveries of the new Boeing 777s this summer the airline is looking to return more of its Airbus A340 fleet to lessors. US Airways Group is in talks to buy or lease planes from Air Canada. The talks are aimed at providing US Airways with jets able to fly nonsto9p to China. US Airways is one of several U.S. carriers vying for new route authority to China."
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1004 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 34616 times:
I suppose if you have been hoping to see the A340 opperated by a U.S. airline, you are finally getting your chance. I find this a very questionable move by US.
1. Examine the equipment in question. AC is dumping their A345. TG is dumping their A345. SQ has canceled their A345 options and commented that yields on ULH are not favorable. What is the common denominator? If the performance is such that growth opportunities with the A345 are so limited, what looks rosy from US' perspective? I certainly hope US is getting a bargain on these young aircraft...
2. US is ordering these aircraft on the speculative hopes they obtain authority for China routes. US is far from a shoe-in for potential China rights. If US doesn't get the route, where will the A345 be used? It would be terribly suited for Europe versus the A330. They would have to find some other non-China Asian market to serve from the East-Coast, which is easier said than done.
3. I explicitly refrained from mentioning the 777 in the two points above, but if US wants to serve Asia and can't wait for new-build aircraft, there are 772ER available for lease in the world. With all the hype the 777LR has received of late, let's not forget what a tremendous aircraft the 656-klb 772ER still is. CO has proven for several years that the 772ER is capable of U.S. East Coast - China with strong yields. Just food for thought....
Atmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 34380 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 20): 2. US is ordering these aircraft on the speculative hopes they obtain authority for China routes. US is far from a shoe-in for potential China rights. If US doesn't get the route, where will the A345 be used? It would be terribly suited for Europe versus the A330. They would have to find some other non-China Asian market to serve from the East-Coast, which is easier said than done.
I suppose they could try India, though they wouldn't have the advantage with China routes of limited US-China capacity due US-India open skies. In general, I am skeptical of PHL as a major O&D city despite its size.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
East Asia? Anywhere in Japan but Tokyo, Seoul, Taipei, Bangkok, Singapore....the latter two would require a non-standard cabin which US is most likely not up for.
But to be honest, I am just throwing names out there....very few if any of these make any real sense from Philadephia
The reality is that anywhere US places these aircraft, they are going to be in direct competition with a whole lot of existing service from airports very close by. (JFK, EWR, IAD)
So the question is; Does US chase after established routes flown by existing domestic and int'l carriers from the airports in the region?, or do they go out and blaze new trails?
So the 345 has anywhere from 2500nm to 3000nm greater range than the 333.....What does that get them that they cannot already do....besides the obvious China routes which they may not even get?
Even though I will be shouted down, these aircraft will make the most sense flying from PHX and LAS to Frankfurt, Gatwick, and maybe Paris/Amsterdam. These markets are big enough to support the service on other merits than just leisure. The size of Phoenix alone would make one think there should a bit more European service than there is currently. Going the other way, PHX/LAS to Manila, Seoul, and Osaka/Nagoya could be a good start. Even Sydney makes more sense from PHX/LAS than it does PHL.
All in all, it is a very curious acquisition for an event that might not even happen.
I think the main driving reason for US opting for the 340-500 is that this is not a permanent addition to the fleet. The plan as I see it to just use the 340s until the 787s (God forbid they wait for Airbus to build the 350) are online.
If US were to go with the 777 the would need an entirely new maintenance department. Not to forget that all new simulators, ground ops procedures, and in flight training would be needed. Along with all that the a group of flight crews would be devoted to nothing but the hand full of 777s in the fleet. That adds up to a lot of money for basically what will be a short term "bridge" A/C. There would be limited chance
I would love to see 777s in US's livery more than anyone else, but the 340-500 is a better fit for what they need it for. The 340s can be operated by the same ground, maintenance and in flight crews as the 330-300 with limited difference training. US needs wide bodies bad, they've needed them for the past few years. The 340s and 333s will allow US to move forward in the international market until they get whatever it is they decide on.
Questionable move would be to create another subfleet of 2 777s. We know that A345 is not as efficient as 772LR but it is still a modern aircraft. The key factor will be the price. If the price is right they should not hesitate and get them.