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KLM Running A 737 From AMS-IAH-AMS?  
User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 532 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10483 times:

I was wondering around in Flightaware and noticed that a KLM flight was passing overhead here in Ohio. Upon further investigation I found this was a 737 running to Houston to Schiphol. (obviously...as the title mentioned)

Anyone know more about this flight? I'm amazed they're running a narrowbody for regular service on that long of a route. Is it configured differently than others?

Edit: For further information, the flight is a 737-700 and the flight numbers are KLM663 AMS-IAH and KLM664 IAH-AMS.

[Edited 2007-04-04 21:32:16]

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10486 times:

all business class flight opt by Privatair

User currently offlineKLAM From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10467 times:

Hi there Gregarious119,

KLM currently has two flights to IAH from Schiphol, one is operated with a 744M, the other one is indeed operated with a 737, but this 737 does not belong to KLM, it is one of Privatair 737BBJs configured in all business class, LH has a flight from MUC to some place near NY, Washington or Chicago, which I dont remember well, operated with an A319 and another one with a 737, both BBJs.
Hope this works alright for ya.

KL-AM



flyOM
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10392 times:

Quoting Gregarious119 (Thread starter):
Edit: For further information, the flight is a 737-700 and the flight numbers are KLM663 AMS-IAH and KLM664 IAH-AMS.

BBJ, not -700 (though on trackers they might appear as the same designation).

Sometimes it's a 319 corporate Jet, saw one of those at Schiphol last week instead of the regular BBJ.

Service operated by Privatair for KLM under KLM flight numbers. Nice aircraft to see, welcome change from the regular blue and grey  Smile



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 606 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10361 times:

Quoting Gregarious119 (Thread starter):
Flightaware and noticed that a KLM flight was passing overhead here in Ohio.



Quoting KLAM (Reply 2):
KLM currently has two flights to IAH from Schiphol, one is operated with a 744M, the other one is indeed operated with a 737

But, why would a flight from Europe to Washington D.C. be over the state of Ohio?



Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-DFW-AUS, AUS-DFW-IND
User currently offlineVTNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10361 times:

Quoting KLAM (Reply 2):
and another one with a 737

EWR



First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
User currently offlineAA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10345 times:

Quoting ATAIndy (Reply 4):
But, why would a flight from Europe to Washington D.C. be over the state of Ohio?

IAH=Houston Intercontinental
IAD=Washington Dulles



Go big or go home
User currently offlineATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 606 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10318 times:

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 6):
IAH=Houston Intercontinental
IAD=Washington Dulles

Haha... my mistake, I was reading a little too fast I guess.  blush 



Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-DFW-AUS, AUS-DFW-IND
User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

This is the aircraft that operates the IAH flights - HB-JJA

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/changi/hbjjageldridgeams010407.jpg

Glenn



http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10175 times:

Current PrivatAir all-business class flights for KL/LH/LX and usual equipment type:

KL: AMS-IAH (BBJ1/737-700) daily except Tue
LH: DUS-ORD (A319LR) daily except Wed/Sat
LH: DUS-EWR (A319LR) daily
LH: MUC-EWR (BBJ1) daily except Sat
LX: ZRH-EWR (BBJ2/737-800) daily except Sat


User currently offline5mileBob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10026 times:

Quoting ATAIndy (Reply 4):
But, why would a flight from Europe to Washington D.C. be over the state of Ohio?

If that flight was headed to IAD, then it could be diverting due to thunderstorm or other wx.

The jetstream plays a big role for flights from Europe to the US. It is not uncommon, to find Europe to DFW and IAH coming over the top of MSP, headed straight south, as they avoid the jetstream core. Included in those flights, are the PrivatAir B737's.



Still looks like a Ramp Rat
User currently offlineAlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9832 times:

Quoting 5mileBob (Reply 10):
It is not uncommon, to find Europe to DFW and IAH coming over the top of MSP, headed straight south, as they avoid the jetstream core.

This is true. Once I saw an AF B777 flying over my house near MSP, and it was routing CDG-MEX. If you look at it on Great Circle, it should have flown over ATL, not MSP! The same day, I saw some AA B777 or B767 flying Europe-DFW pass overhead.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9647 times:

Quoting 5mileBob (Reply 10):
If that flight was headed to IAD, then it could be diverting due to thunderstorm or other wx.

Please read the reply above, it was going to IAH not IAD. Not diverting.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9588 times:

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 11):
you look at it on Great Circle, it should have flown over ATL, not MSP!

Aircraft often don't use a great circle route, they use the airways...



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21554 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 9538 times:

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 13):
Aircraft often don't use a great circle route, they use the airways...

Well, they do try to follow the airways that are closest to the great circle route. Plus, in the western US, you do find some off-airway routings between distant VORs.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFiatstilojtd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

Quoting KLAM (Reply 2):
operated with an A319 and another one with a 737, both BBJs.

Not to be nitpicking here KLAM....but A319 is called ACJ not BBJ  Wink


User currently offlineWarowl40 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6466 times:

Do the BBJ flights to and from IAH fill up? I priced it last summer for a trip to Europe and it was much more expensive than flying CO businessFirst.

User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 9):
KL: AMS-IAH (BBJ1/737-700) daily except Tue
LH: DUS-ORD (A319LR) daily except Wed/Sat
LH: DUS-EWR (A319LR) daily
LH: MUC-EWR (BBJ1) daily except Sat
LX: ZRH-EWR (BBJ2/737-800) daily except Sat

This is an interesting thread, but to my untrained eye, the above seems to me like an unlikely assortment of routes to offer this exclusive service.

I notice that this type of additional and exclusive service is not offered on the more dense or "obvious" routes, such as AMS-EWR/ORD/JFK, or FRA-EWR/ORD/JFK.

What criteria motivates an airline to offer a 737/320-sized A/C in all-business configuration on some routes but not others? Do some routes simply have a higher ratio of Business class travellers, so that an additional widebody with multi-class configuration is not called for? If so, why? Is it due to the nature of the specific types of business/Industry that occur in those cities, which would warrent more business travel between them? Then why EWR but not JFK? Does this trend indicate that travel between the largest hubs is dominated by more leasure travel / low yield seats, and "point-to-point" is populated more by business class travellers?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm facinated by this trend, but I don't yet understand how the routes are chosen.



I come in peace
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
This is an interesting thread, but to my untrained eye, the above seems to me like an unlikely assortment of routes to offer this exclusive service.

These are logical routes for such a service. On these routes the airlines have a lot of business passengers but can not fill a widebody with also economy passengers. LX for example has two daily flights to JFK from ZRH (three class) but there are plenty of business people which like to fly into EWR because a lot of companies have their headquarters or branches in NJ. Economy passengers usually don't care whether JFK or EWR, so it is probably more economic to have the two "regular" flights to one airport (JFK) than to split it up.


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting Warowl40 (Reply 16):
Do the BBJ flights to and from IAH fill up?

I spoke with a PrivatAir flight attendant and she said the AMS-IAH BBJ flights are almost always full.


User currently offline5mileBob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
Please read the reply above, it was going to IAH not IAD. Not diverting.

I passed over that. My apologies.

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 13):
Aircraft often don't use a great circle route, they use the airways...

Can you show me the "airway" map over the North Pole, please.
It is very common for aircraft flying "overseas" to fly to Lat/Long waypoints and on tracks, that are adjusted every day due to the jetstream, thunderstorms and turbulence.



Still looks like a Ramp Rat
User currently offlineToering From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

While at AMS I would be confused as to why this unmarked 737 would pass by in the KLM gate area. Pretty cool if you ask me. It took me a little bit to research this plane, not to mention fun. Whats the cost on this typw of ride, and how would one get a ticket? Is this booked with KLM or Privatair? Mysterous in a way.

User currently offlinePlane Holland From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4609 times:

Quoting Gregarious119 (Thread starter):
Anyone know more about this flight?

man, thats all he asked.. y'all writing an encyclopedia over here...


User currently offlineVrille From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4441 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17):
I notice that this type of additional and exclusive service is not offered on the more dense or "obvious" routes, such as AMS-EWR/ORD/JFK, or FRA-EWR/ORD/JFK.

What criteria motivates an airline to offer a 737/320-sized A/C in all-business configuration on some routes but not others? Do some routes simply have a higher ratio of Business class travellers, so that an additional widebody with multi-class configuration is not called for? If so, why? Is it due to the nature of the specific types of business/Industry that occur in those cities, which would warrent more business travel between them?

SSTsomeday,

As for the AMS-IAH rotation you are completely right in your analysis. For KLM it is worth to operate a PrivatAir flight on this route because of the oil industry. Thus a lot of business travellers are using this route.

Don't know why LH is using the before mentioned routes with a PrivatAir flight but it definitely has to do something with a high ratio of business travellers.


User currently offlineGregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

Quoting Vrille (Reply 22):

As for the AMS-IAH rotation you are completely right in your analysis. For KLM it is worth to operate a PrivatAir flight on this route because of the oil industry. Thus a lot of business travellers are using this route.

Don't know why LH is using the before mentioned routes with a PrivatAir flight but it definitely has to do something with a high ratio of business travellers.

I wouldn't think of AMS or FRA as typical oil tycoon cities. Would most of these pax on the PrivatAir flights continue on "normal business class" on a KLM or LH flight to their destination?


25 Vrille : AMS is maby not a "typical" oil tycoon city but Royal Dutch Shell as an English/Dutch company can boost the yield on this rotation. I do think that t
26 ZRH : As I know PrivatAir does not sell tickets. They only wet-lease the aircrafts to Swiss, Lufthansa and KLM. Therefore you have to book all these flight
27 Drerx7 : Rumour was that PrivatAir/KLM wanted a larger jet for this service. Any news on that?
28 IAH777 : WarowI40, there's a vast difference between CO Business First and true First Class. Also, to my knowledge, IAH has never seen a PrivatAir ACJ.
29 STT757 : Business Travelers prefer EWR as their International Gateway to NYC, tourists have no clue.
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