Gregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 523 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9207 times:
I was wondering around in Flightaware and noticed that a KLM flight was passing overhead here in Ohio. Upon further investigation I found this was a 737 running to Houston to Schiphol. (obviously...as the title mentioned)
Anyone know more about this flight? I'm amazed they're running a narrowbody for regular service on that long of a route. Is it configured differently than others?
Edit: For further information, the flight is a 737-700 and the flight numbers are KLM663 AMS-IAH and KLM664 IAH-AMS.
KLAM From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9191 times:
Hi there Gregarious119,
KLM currently has two flights to IAH from Schiphol, one is operated with a 744M, the other one is indeed operated with a 737, but this 737 does not belong to KLM, it is one of Privatair 737BBJs configured in all business class, LH has a flight from MUC to some place near NY, Washington or Chicago, which I dont remember well, operated with an A319 and another one with a 737, both BBJs.
Hope this works alright for ya.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9116 times:
Quoting Gregarious119 (Thread starter): Edit: For further information, the flight is a 737-700 and the flight numbers are KLM663 AMS-IAH and KLM664 IAH-AMS.
BBJ, not -700 (though on trackers they might appear as the same designation).
Sometimes it's a 319 corporate Jet, saw one of those at Schiphol last week instead of the regular BBJ.
Service operated by Privatair for KLM under KLM flight numbers. Nice aircraft to see, welcome change from the regular blue and grey
ATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9085 times:
Quoting Gregarious119 (Thread starter): Flightaware and noticed that a KLM flight was passing overhead here in Ohio.
Quoting KLAM (Reply 2): KLM currently has two flights to IAH from Schiphol, one is operated with a 744M, the other one is indeed operated with a 737
But, why would a flight from Europe to Washington D.C. be over the state of Ohio?
VTNYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 277 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9085 times:
Quoting KLAM (Reply 2): and another one with a 737
EWR
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
AA61Hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13975 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9069 times:
Quoting ATAIndy (Reply 4): But, why would a flight from Europe to Washington D.C. be over the state of Ohio?
ATAIndy From United States of America, joined May 2004, 579 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9042 times:
5mileBob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 104 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8750 times:
Quoting ATAIndy (Reply 4): But, why would a flight from Europe to Washington D.C. be over the state of Ohio?
If that flight was headed to IAD, then it could be diverting due to thunderstorm or other wx.
The jetstream plays a big role for flights from Europe to the US. It is not uncommon, to find Europe to DFW and IAH coming over the top of MSP, headed straight south, as they avoid the jetstream core. Included in those flights, are the PrivatAir B737's.
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8556 times:
Quoting 5mileBob (Reply 10): It is not uncommon, to find Europe to DFW and IAH coming over the top of MSP, headed straight south, as they avoid the jetstream core.
This is true. Once I saw an AF B777 flying over my house near MSP, and it was routing CDG-MEX. If you look at it on Great Circle, it should have flown over ATL, not MSP! The same day, I saw some AA B777 or B767 flying Europe-DFW pass overhead.
OOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1395 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8371 times:
Quoting 5mileBob (Reply 10): If that flight was headed to IAD, then it could be diverting due to thunderstorm or other wx.
Please read the reply above, it was going to IAH not IAD. Not diverting.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19702 posts, RR: 56 Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8262 times:
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 13): Aircraft often don't use a great circle route, they use the airways...
Well, they do try to follow the airways that are closest to the great circle route. Plus, in the western US, you do find some off-airway routings between distant VORs.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Warowl40 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 30 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5190 times:
Do the BBJ flights to and from IAH fill up? I priced it last summer for a trip to Europe and it was much more expensive than flying CO businessFirst.
This is an interesting thread, but to my untrained eye, the above seems to me like an unlikely assortment of routes to offer this exclusive service.
I notice that this type of additional and exclusive service is not offered on the more dense or "obvious" routes, such as AMS-EWR/ORD/JFK, or FRA-EWR/ORD/JFK.
What criteria motivates an airline to offer a 737/320-sized A/C in all-business configuration on some routes but not others? Do some routes simply have a higher ratio of Business class travellers, so that an additional widebody with multi-class configuration is not called for? If so, why? Is it due to the nature of the specific types of business/Industry that occur in those cities, which would warrent more business travel between them? Then why EWR but not JFK? Does this trend indicate that travel between the largest hubs is dominated by more leasure travel / low yield seats, and "point-to-point" is populated more by business class travellers?
Sorry for all the questions. I'm facinated by this trend, but I don't yet understand how the routes are chosen.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5540 posts, RR: 40 Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4573 times:
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17): This is an interesting thread, but to my untrained eye, the above seems to me like an unlikely assortment of routes to offer this exclusive service.
These are logical routes for such a service. On these routes the airlines have a lot of business passengers but can not fill a widebody with also economy passengers. LX for example has two daily flights to JFK from ZRH (three class) but there are plenty of business people which like to fly into EWR because a lot of companies have their headquarters or branches in NJ. Economy passengers usually don't care whether JFK or EWR, so it is probably more economic to have the two "regular" flights to one airport (JFK) than to split it up.
LHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 553 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4451 times:
Quoting Warowl40 (Reply 16): Do the BBJ flights to and from IAH fill up?
I spoke with a PrivatAir flight attendant and she said the AMS-IAH BBJ flights are almost always full.
5mileBob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 104 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3568 times:
Quoting OOer (Reply 12): Please read the reply above, it was going to IAH not IAD. Not diverting.
I passed over that. My apologies.
Quoting Jwenting (Reply 13): Aircraft often don't use a great circle route, they use the airways...
Can you show me the "airway" map over the North Pole, please.
It is very common for aircraft flying "overseas" to fly to Lat/Long waypoints and on tracks, that are adjusted every day due to the jetstream, thunderstorms and turbulence.
Toering From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3494 times:
While at AMS I would be confused as to why this unmarked 737 would pass by in the KLM gate area. Pretty cool if you ask me. It took me a little bit to research this plane, not to mention fun. Whats the cost on this typw of ride, and how would one get a ticket? Is this booked with KLM or Privatair? Mysterous in a way.
Vrille From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3165 times:
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17): I notice that this type of additional and exclusive service is not offered on the more dense or "obvious" routes, such as AMS-EWR/ORD/JFK, or FRA-EWR/ORD/JFK.
What criteria motivates an airline to offer a 737/320-sized A/C in all-business configuration on some routes but not others? Do some routes simply have a higher ratio of Business class travellers, so that an additional widebody with multi-class configuration is not called for? If so, why? Is it due to the nature of the specific types of business/Industry that occur in those cities, which would warrent more business travel between them?
SSTsomeday,
As for the AMS-IAH rotation you are completely right in your analysis. For KLM it is worth to operate a PrivatAir flight on this route because of the oil industry. Thus a lot of business travellers are using this route.
Don't know why LH is using the before mentioned routes with a PrivatAir flight but it definitely has to do something with a high ratio of business travellers.
Gregarious119 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 523 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3112 times:
Quoting Vrille (Reply 22):
As for the AMS-IAH rotation you are completely right in your analysis. For KLM it is worth to operate a PrivatAir flight on this route because of the oil industry. Thus a lot of business travellers are using this route.
Don't know why LH is using the before mentioned routes with a PrivatAir flight but it definitely has to do something with a high ratio of business travellers.
I wouldn't think of AMS or FRA as typical oil tycoon cities. Would most of these pax on the PrivatAir flights continue on "normal business class" on a KLM or LH flight to their destination?
25 Vrille: AMS is maby not a "typical" oil tycoon city but Royal Dutch Shell as an English/Dutch company can boost the yield on this rotation. I do think that t
26 ZRH: As I know PrivatAir does not sell tickets. They only wet-lease the aircrafts to Swiss, Lufthansa and KLM. Therefore you have to book all these flight
27 Drerx7: Rumour was that PrivatAir/KLM wanted a larger jet for this service. Any news on that?
28 IAH777: WarowI40, there's a vast difference between CO Business First and true First Class. Also, to my knowledge, IAH has never seen a PrivatAir ACJ.
29 STT757: Business Travelers prefer EWR as their International Gateway to NYC, tourists have no clue.
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