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How's Ted Doing?  
User currently offlineMEACEDAR From Lebanon, joined Oct 2006, 753 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5361 times:

After a few years of service, we have seen UA's TED on the rise, especially after DL's SONG stopped service. Now tell me, is TED that benefical to UA? If yes, why? How? Why can't they use regular UA flights for the current TED flights?

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5293 times:

No way of really knowing as UA does not break out actually numbers for investors. So they can spin it anyway they want to.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5238 times:

I don't even understand what the point of Ted is. There is nothing special about it.


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1464 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 2):
I don't even understand what the point of Ted is. There is nothing special about it.

Thats exacly it, theres nothing special about it. I may be wrong but I believe Ted was started in order for United to compete with LCCs in markets where UA had virturally no "paying" first class demand and in those markets where tields were really low, LAS and MCO come to mind, big leisure markets. So United created Ted to be able to still fly to those markets and make extra dough.

If a flight from DEN-MCO was exacly the same price, on WN and UA...or even if the UA flight was $10 more, which one would you pick? I know that 90% of people would pick the UA flight...why?

1. You get assigned seating
2. You get a TV
3. E+


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24865 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5149 times:

TED was designed to allow UA to maintain a presence in several predominantly leisure markets. From all company indications it has done what it was planned to do and producing positive results.

Check out page 18-19 of this December 2006 UA investors day presentation. According to it the airline has seen year over year positive results with improvement in operating margins on routes since the introduction of TED.

http://library.corporate-ir.net/libr...51/2006InvestorDayPresentation.pdf



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
1. You get assigned seating
2. You get a TV
3. E+

And you get CHANNEL 9!!!

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
virturally no "paying" first class demand and in those markets where yields were really low, LAS and MCO come to mind, big leisure markets

Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Phoenix, Cabo San Lucas, Puerto Vallarta are a few more. If the A320 could make it to Hawaii, Ted would work for that market, too. How about a few special Ted 767s?


User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 968 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
1. You get assigned seating
2. You get a TV
3. E+

I didn't realize that you got a TV on Ted. Is that a seat back PTV at every seat?

Also, did they really scale back Ted ops at LAX? On a recent trip to LA it just seemed as though the number of Ted aircraft i saw during the average day was a lot less than what it was just a year back there.



I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24865 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Quoting Jr (Reply 6):
Also, did they really scale back Ted ops at LAX?

TED ops at LAX have esentially always been the Las Vegas service which they continue to.

In addition some of the weekend Mexico service makes use of TED aircraft.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting Jr (Reply 6):
I didn't realize that you got a TV on Ted. Is that a seat back PTV at every seat?

No drop down screens through out the cabin.

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
And you get CHANNEL 9!!!

IF the Pilot decides to turn it on for the flight.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4456 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 3):
I know that 90% of people would pick the UA flight...why?

And Miles, I hate WN's frequent flyer program!


User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
IF the Pilot decides to turn it on for the flight

Almost all pilots do. I haven't been on a United flight in the past two years when it was not turned on. I love it.


User currently offlineCloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?


"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting MEACEDAR (Thread starter):
After a few years of service, we have seen UA's TED on the rise

On the rise? Didn't TED just get replaced in MIA by regionals? The 170's have E+ and FC, but fewer seats overall. Were those planes put on new TED routes, or returned to mainline?


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24865 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4333 times:

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

The CASM are lower on the TED aircraft due to the higher density configuration allowing UA a little more room to compete against LCCs versus using mainline aircraft.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12):
On the rise? Didn't TED just get replaced in MIA by regionals? The 170's have E+ and FC, but fewer seats overall. Were those planes put on new TED routes, or returned to mainline?

They did so well they ran themselves out of the market.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
The CASM are lower on the TED aircraft due to the higher density configuration allowing UA a little more room to compete against LCCs versus using mainline aircraft.

That might be true though you still have crews operating the flights at pay scales the same for UA flights.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCirrusDriver From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

I have never figured this one out myself. Why change the name and configuration of the aircraft? Why not keep the name, change the configuration, save some $$? Oh yea, gotta spend the money or else they will have to give it to us whining employees.........


User currently offlineMnevans From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4274 times:

The 2 segments I flew on TED were rather disheartening (ORD-PHX, PHX-ORD). First off, the seat I had (non E+) was the most uncomfortable seat I've ever sat in, I HAD to get up at least 5 times during the flight because it was so painful. I guess it may be because I was upgraded to F on my CMH-ORD leg, which I'm sure intensifies the experience. Second, I hadn't eaten anything because I got held up in security and I was in row 29 I believe, and they ran out of every type of snack box, so I resorted to drinking Jack and coke and eating 3 bags of pretzels. Third, the plane was somehow 35 minutes late into ORD, and I had to literally run from the furthest TED gate on 1B to the furthest United Express gate on 1C, and just as I got there the door was almost closed. I pleaded with the lady to let me on, told her I had class the next day, I was upset OSU just lost the national championship and just wanted to get home, and she was nice enough to let me on, as well as (this wasn't necessary at all) upgrade me to F again. So I really can't complain, but the uncomfortable seat really killed me (and I'm only 21 and weigh 155 pounds) I can't imagine someone older and a little bigger trying to sit in one of those seats.

So guess they're doing OK for what they essentially a LCC. The experience was STILL better then any other WN flight I've been on, so props to UniTED for that!

[Edited 2007-04-05 21:32:46]

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17352 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4237 times:

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 15):
Why change the name and configuration of the aircraft?

It's one of the dumbest moves I've seen an airline pull...twice Silly

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 15):
Why not keep the name, change the configuration, save some $$?

Exactly...or just make it a low fare bucket like Tango fares at AC.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 14):
They did so well they ran themselves out of the market.

MIA was never a Ted station. United has pretty much written off South Florida. IF United expands to South America, it will be from Dulles. They've left it to American and Delta to compete with JetBlue, Airtran and Southwest to Florida. United/United Express kept enough seats for its business customers and frequent flyers who need to take business trips there and the cruise shippers flying to Ft. Lauderdale, but that's about it.


User currently offlineFlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4055 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):

Quoting CirrusDriver (Reply 15):
Why not keep the name, change the configuration, save some $$?

Exactly...or just make it a low fare bucket like Tango fares at AC.

On routes where they were selling almost no seats in first class, adding more coach seats which sell well makes good sense... getting more seats onboard, and the TED brandname to compete with the more stodgy United name on primarily liesure routes.

Honestly, I don't care about Ted one way or the other. If it is working well for UA, good for them... it basically just amounts to having two A320 seating configs, one for standard and one for high leisure routes. From the pay point of view, if you're in Y, it's all the same.



"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4019 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
If the A320 could make it to Hawaii, Ted would work for that market, too. How about a few special Ted 767s?

I think this would work in some respects. While Hawaii may be a leasure market, it still atracts a lot of frequent flyers/1K/Global service passengers who would not fly UA to the Islands if Y seating was the only choice.

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 11):
But how does it save UA any money? What makes those operating costs lower because it has a TED logo as opposed to the same plane with a standard UA logo?

Because,

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 13):
The CASM are lower on the TED aircraft due to the higher density configuration allowing UA a little more room to compete against LCCs versus using mainline aircraft.



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 14):
That might be true though you still have crews operating the flights at pay scales the same for UA flights.

TED flights are primarily staffed by more junior crews. Pay scales are also based on seniority--including for acting as purser (usually the FA who is purser-qualified and has the lowest seniority). Obviously, the lower your seniority, the lower your pay.


User currently offlineFirenzelv From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Is LAS a TED only airport for United at this point?

User currently offlineDc-9-10 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 584 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3783 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 20):
TED flights are primarily staffed by more junior crews. Pay scales are also based on seniority--including for acting as purser (usually the FA who is purser-qualified and has the lowest seniority). Obviously, the lower your seniority, the lower your pay.
This is not true at all, anyone in the United system can bid for these flights. Just because it has Ted on the out side does not mean you are not going to get a veteran crew. In fact some routes get very veteran because (like the Mexico routes) it is a simple day trip where you do the two flights and you have your day all done, and you don't have to spend a night in a hotel.

Dc-9-10

Edit: Spelling

[Edited 2007-04-06 01:46:15]

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8894 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting Firenzelv (Reply 21):
Is LAS a TED only airport for United at this point?

Still a couple of stray SkyWest Embraer 120 flights to PSP and FAT I believe, but LAX, SFO, IAD, ORD and DEN are all Ted-ified. RAR!


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

Unlike what DL did with Song and had separate crews and a different work contract pay scale, UA has not done anything different for its crews working TED flights.


You can cut the irony with a knife
25 FlyDreamliner : Going TED only on any major city I think is a mistake. To keep premium pax, you need at least some of the flights to be mainline.
26 Hiflyer : It has been only TED for 2 years but there is more need for the 156 seat birds than what MIA is generating so 4 of the six go away later this month.
27 Luv2fly : I never understood why they did not do this in the first place, as it would be a cost savings right from the get go.
28 777fan : I think that for all of the scrutiny that Ted received upon its launch, it's probably done UA more good than bad. As has been beaten to death on this
29 United_Fan : Yep,you are correct! I must be old,I remember UA putting the 727,DC-10,757,763 and Shuttle 733/35 and the occasional 742/4 into LAS. I have flown on
30 UA747400 : You know I haven't really been thinking about it but I have not seen that many, if any at all, TED aircraft at ONT since 2004-05. I recently left from
31 Cloudboy : So then the only difference is the paint on the skin? If they took that same exact aircraft, and simply painted it in United's livery, there would be
32 UA747400 : Did TED leave ONT, the reason I ask is that I recently departed from ONT, last Sunday, and only noticed a UA 757 at the UA terminal, what happened? UA
33 Bicoastal : That 757 Sunday at Ontario was likely UA 1058 HNL-SAN. It diverted to Ontario due to fog in San Diego Sunday morning.
34 UA747400 : So then what happened to UA at ONT there have been no planes there at any time that I have been there
35 Bicoastal : United's presence at ONT is Ted to DEN and SFO and United Express to SFO and LAX. I don't believe they have any mainline flights.
36 UA772IAD : Of course anyone can bid on a Ted trip, but the more tenured FA's (IE the ones with the higher pay scales) hold lines, mostly coveted international o
37 Hiflyer : One more thing on crews forgot to add before....they don't fly TED all day in a lot of cases...ie they may start out on a 2 class 319 and then move ov
38 Luv2fly : Bottom line is anyone can and does work TED flights. A slew of senior FA's also like being home and do take domestic flights for that reason.
39 MaverickM11 : It's really just a shell game...put a few more seats on the A320s flying your high density leisure destinations (that were probably all making money
40 Halls120 : I've just completed a travel swing which involved 2 Ted and 6 mainline UA flights - one international - over the past 8 weeks, and Channel 9 was turn
41 EmSeeEye : I think UA should just buy out B6 and keep the Jetblue name. Repaint all TED aircraft in Jetblue colors and operate Jetblue in the same manner as Ted
42 777fan : I think that in 25+ years of flying UA, I can only remember a handful of flights in which channel nine wasn't turned on but yes, I've noticed that fl
43 Post contains images EmSeeEye : It was a joke. It was meant as a joke. It was written as a joke. UAL is broke, B6 is still pulling itself up from this last year financially. B6 is n
44 Mcdu : Ted airplanes have 156 seats. Mainline 320's have a bit less. This gives lower CASM and More ASM.
45 Mcdu : Were broke??? Holy cow I did not know that and I work here. I think we have made some money in the past year and if you remove the BK months at the b
46 OB1504 : It also has to do with the demand for business and first class service that MIA continues to generate. That's why they're putting exPlus-configured E
47 EmSeeEye : Well, maybe you are right about 2006 but my company would have made money too if they dissovled pensions also...
48 UA772IAD : Absolutely. That work assignment I pulled from the SFO domestic bid package: SFO-SNA-DEN-PHX-ORD-SFO has the crews working on a 757, 737, A320, and A
49 Mcdu : Disolved one of TWO pension plans. With the bar being set by the LCC's of the world the Legacy's had to change to compete. I don't care for it, but w
50 Daron4000 : I can definitely attest to that. I love domestic 757 flights that have 6 FA's compared to every single AA flight I have ever been on (domestically) w
51 UAL777 : True, but maybe UA could make more money if they had their crews picking blue chips off of the carpet after the flight.
52 Luv2fly : The FAA requires the 4 FA's for the A320 when it has 156 seats! That has nothing to do with UA and wanting to offer more FA's for better service.
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