LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4080 times:
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TAP Air Portugal will fly more flights to their main long-haul market : Brazil
Today they get finally approval from ANAC (Brazilian Civil Agency for Air Transportation) to fly more 13 weekly flights to Brazil. 3 of them are a new destination: Brasilia (BSB), the Brazilian capital and 3rd largest Brazilian airport, a very strong connections market in the middle of the country.
Also they get 5 weekly flights to Rio de Janeiro (GIG) and another 5 to São Paulo (GRU).
GIG flights has been already updated and are available to be booked on TP website effective August 6th:
Up to now, GRU-LIS will be 11 weekly flights (there is also a Sunday flight that begins on April/06) + 3 GRU-OPO and 12 GIG-LIS and 3 GIG-OPO flights.
TP will become the largest foreign operator in Brazil with 54 weekly fligths. When they load BSB and more flights to GRU, they will reach 60 flights per week !
Nice news for Brazil, Portugal and for sure, Europe as the new flights will allow more connections. It also confirm that TP will continue to grow on their key markets, as well as it seems an overnight flight from LIS is not on their short term plans.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
AF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1032 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3953 times:
Good luck for TAP. Guess this new flight at GIG will provide better connecting times for a destinations like FLN, BSB, VCP, IGU, VIX, CNF, SCL and EZE and also the GRU flight will also offer different connections that the other TP flight couldn't offer.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 2, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3768 times:
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Quoting AF086 (Reply 1): Good luck for TAP. Guess this new flight at GIG will provide better connecting times for a destinations like FLN, BSB, VCP, IGU, VIX, CNF, SCL
Also at LIS ! Seems that TP will create a new departure bank at 11:40 allowing more connections from Europe to Brazil without the need to loose a night waiting for a morning flight.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3715 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter): 3 of them are a new destination: Brasilia (BSB), the Brazilian capital and 3rd largest Brazilian airport, a very strong connections market in the middle of the country.
Also they get 5 weekly flights to Rio de Janeiro (GIG) and another 5 to São Paulo (GRU).
It seems that a mistake was committed yesterday by the news agencies, because today all news articles including the latest interview of the Minister of Tourism state that TAP will receive 5 frequencies to BSB, 5 to GIG, but only 3 to GRU.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 4, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3666 times:
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Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3): It seems that a mistake was committed yesterday by the news agencies, because today all news articles including the latest interview of the Minister of Tourism state that TAP will receive 5 frequencies to BSB, 5 to GIG, but only 3 to GRU.
This changes all... Rio will become TP main market in Brazil (and also TP yesterday transfer their Call Center in Brazil to Rio in a local provider).
Nice news!
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
So they'll have:
5x weekly to NAT
7x weekly to REC
7x weekly to SSA
7x weekly to FOR
5x weekly to BSB
15x weekly to GIG (LIS + OPO)
14x weekly to GRU (LIS + OPO)
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 7, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
TAP has done so very well with its Brazil-Portugal services. TAP continues to succeed in the traditional GRU/GIG markets.......but the big story is TAP's innovation by launching frequent nonstop transatlantic flights out of SSA/REC/FOR/NAT and now BSB.......one must assume that MAO will be next. TAP took a big risk with these flights and it paid off.....bravo. It also seems that the GRU/GIG-OPO services are more successful than anyone very expected.
LatinThug From Portugal, joined Jan 2007, 100 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3483 times:
The OPO - GIG/GRU flights have been doing ok, but they will do a hell of a lot better when the TAP/PGA codeshare becomes a reality.
The reason for this is that TAP has very few connections in Europe out of OPO mainly LHR,LGW, Geneva,Paris. On the other hand PGA connects to many more (mainly secondary) points in Europe.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 9, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3457 times:
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Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7): TAP has done so very well with its Brazil-Portugal services. TAP continues to succeed in the traditional GRU/GIG markets.......but the big story is TAP's innovation by launching frequent nonstop transatlantic flights out of SSA/REC/FOR/NAT and now BSB.......one must assume that MAO will be next. TAP took a big risk with these flights and it paid off.....bravo. It also seems that the GRU/GIG-OPO services are more successful than anyone very expected.
We can say that TP produced a major revolution on Brazilian Northeast ! Lots of resorts, hotels, real estate investments were made just because of European flights, and TP become this ! Now they will try to improve this very successful history and strategy with BSB-LIS flights.
Their focus on GRU/GIG are based on business, immigration and tourism also (Rio).
And as you pointed out very well, they took the risk, and now they get the profits. Seems that AA, DL and others are now looking for Northeast, but just because TP show to the world that Brazil is not just one city.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 10, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3441 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9): And as you pointed out very well, they took the risk, and now they get the profits. Seems that AA, DL and others are now looking for Northeast, but just because TP show to the world that Brazil is not just one city
And, to be fair, the restrictive bi-lateral agreements between the US and Brazil dont help.....if Brazil and the US could agree to ""deregulate"" air services between the US and Brazilian destinations other than GRU/GIG, the entire market would open up. As long as frequencies between these nations are limited, the airlines will focus on the the proven GRU and GIG markets.......there is little incentive to look elsewhere.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 11, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3297 times:
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Well, ANAC also approved on Thursday 2 more frequencies MAD-GIG for UX and also 2 more to IB on the same route Rio-Madri.
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10): And, to be fair, the restrictive bi-lateral agreements between the US and Brazil dont help.....if Brazil and the US could agree to ""deregulate"" air services between the US and Brazilian destinations other than GRU/GIG, the entire market would open up. As long as frequencies between these nations are limited, the airlines will
focus on the the proven GRU and GIG markets.......there is little incentive to look elsewhere.
Agree with you, but considering US only, GIG is also in need for more services to the United States. 2 flights (almost 3 on high seasons) is not enough ! I am an advocate of a No-GRU policy, and if airlines wants to improve their flights to São Paulo, they can change their planes (AA can put more 772, UA can use larger planes, CO could change one 762 to 764, DL can use the 764 also) !
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3113 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11): I am an advocate of a No-GRU policy
It would be the same as the UK Government would establish a no-LHR policy - just for the sake of developing MAN.
GRU is the major airport in South America, the gateway for Brazil, and therefore needs more investment and more flights. One cannot neglect GRU, and the simple idea that GRU is the problem of Brazil air traffic or bilaterals with other countries is a big mistake. Airlines will always favour GRU under a free and liberal policy framework. The number one option of airlines in Brazil will continue GRU as long as Sao Paulo remains the powerhouse of Brazil and keep filling C and F cabins.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6884 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3045 times:
Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12): The number one option of airlines in Brazil will continue GRU as long as Sao Paulo remains the powerhouse of Brazil and keep filling C and F cabins.
Correct. One can't compare TAP's situation in Brazil with other airlines because TP benefits from the special ties that exist between Portugal and Brazil. No other foreign airline would be able to succeed in serving secondary cities in Brazil the way TP has, or at least not with such ease. Even today most of the traffic that TP carries to those secondary cities is leisure traffic. The yields are good because of the lack of competition but it's still all primarily leisure. One other thing that few people realize is that TP did not do it all alone. The exploration of those markets was done in close cooperation with large hotel and investment groups who saw the potential for developing the Northeast cities of Brazil into big tourism destinations. What they did and continue to do in Brazil is very similar to what big tour operators have done in place like Cuba and the Dominican Republic. The main difference is that in Brazil they used an established carrier like TP instead of charter airlines.
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3021 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11): I am an advocate of a No-GRU policy,
I am an advocate of free markets with little government intervention - both on the side of light regulation and on the side of avoiding subsidies and handouts. Airlines are difficult to be profitable, so why add petty regulation to the mix? GRU has been already damaged by Infraero: Ugly, poor infrastructure, lack of gates, competition for domestic services from CGH making connections either rare or a nightmare. Why constrain it further?
Brazil will now be the battlefield of two strong local airlines with expanding international services. Time to lessen regulation.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 15, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2979 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10): if Brazil and the US could agree to ""deregulate"" air services between the US and Brazilian destinations other than GRU/GIG
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11): Agree with you, but considering US only, GIG is also in need for more services to the United States. 2 flights (almost 3 on high seasons) is not enough ! I am an advocate of a No-GRU policy
It is easy to criticise, when things are taken out of context. Dutchjet suggested the deregulation of the market between Brazil and the US excluding GIG and GRU. Lipe mentioned the lack of non-stop services to the USA out of GIG and suggested the same but with the exclusion of GRU only. I must agree with Lipe on this matter, since GRU has enough flights to the US. If flights were added from other destinations, the current flights out of GRU would be sufficient to attend the demand in Sao Paulo. I would have nothing against a complete Open Skies agreement after the consolidation of the new destinations in Brazil.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3513 posts, RR: 21 Reply 16, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2976 times:
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14): Brazil will now be the battlefield of two strong local airlines with expanding international services. Time to lessen regulation.
There is no need of that between Brazil an the US until the bilateral reaches its limit on the Brazilian side. Varig cannot compete without a consistent widebody fleet.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2838 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 12): Airlines will always favour GRU under a free and liberal policy framework. The number one option of airlines in Brazil will continue GRU as long as Sao Paulo remains the powerhouse of Brazil and keep filling C and F cabins.
They will keep the option to use larger planes or even to use one with more premium C and F seats !
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14): I am an advocate of free markets with little government intervention - both on the side of light regulation and on the side of avoiding subsidies and handouts
Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14): Ugly, poor infrastructure, lack of gates, competition for domestic services from CGH making connections either rare or a nightmare. Why constrain it further?
If you reduce CGH flights you can improve GRU flights, but there isn't such demand for the two airports unless you reduce connections at BSB and GIG and concentrate them in GRU. Incitatus i'm sorry to disagree with you, but the size of São Paulo market is not only because of O&D, it's strong because of connections also.
If we decide to further improve GRU, probably in three years we will need a 3rd airport, in more 7 a 4th airport... and in 10 years Brazilian Market will remain just one city like some other countries, the domestic market will literally be halted because of the ATC restrictions on Sao Paulo area and several business opportunities (as well as investments) in other areas will be lost because the only place with really strong activity will be... São Paulo. I rather see Brazil as a strong domestic market and several gateways instead of other South American countries that keep only one bigger gateway.
In this scenario, the more we concentrate, the more we lost and the more we will look like EZE, SCL or LIM markets. This is not a kind of critic against the other markets in South America, just the fact that when we think about Argentina, Chile or Peru for example, we say Buenos Aires, Santiago and Lima. In Brazil we have São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Salvador, Brasilia, and i wish to keep with them in the future.
Quoting LongHaul67 (Reply 17): Excellent news.
But why didnt they rather opt for an overnight instead of another daytime run? This sucks connectionwise...
I believe the problem is this needs a daylight GIG-LIS which for sure, will be not the best option for mostly travellers. An overnight on two directions would demand two planes and the current fare levels for Portugal are not enough, IMO, to turn it a profitable option.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
TrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2099 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2819 times:
Nice to see TAP add more flights and expand. Regarding their fleet, does anyone know what the near future holds for the A313's? Will they be replaced shortly by more A332's? The older Airbus is certainly a novelty, I'd hate to see it go soon.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 20, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2808 times:
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Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 19): Nice to see TAP add more flights and expand. Regarding their fleet, does anyone know what the near future holds for the A313's? Will they be replaced shortly by more A332's? The older Airbus is certainly a novelty, I'd hate to see it go soon.
Yes they will be replaced by A332's. TP has an outstanding order with Airbus in order to obtain some brand new A332 that will be used to replace their A313 fleet. IIRC they will receive some additional planes also, to increase it's fleet.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
TrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2099 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (6 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2801 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20): Yes they will be replaced by A332's.
Any idea when the last A313 will be retired? I'm guessing 3-5 years, at max?
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