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No More Commercial For US Military War Dead  
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8857 times:

The US military, after major pressure since late 2005, is making major changes in the use of commercial aircraft for the transport of the remains of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Kallita Air has been given a 6 month contract to transport on a charter basis (unless the significant other of the dead solder ok's commercial flight use) such remains, with a full honor guard, no use of forklifts to remove remains containers, delivery to smaller airports nearer where the remains will have it's funeral service and burial. The parents of a soldier from the San Diego area who' son was killed in Iraq in late 2005 was the main trigger along with other parents of dead soldiers, so Congress changed the rule. Of course, it will cost the taxpayers much more, but many aggred that the use of commercial flights wasn't dignified enough for a solder killed in action. That is despite the strict rules and polices of all airlines as to the handling with diginity as to human remains - soldier or civilian.
This MSNBC article discusses further details of this change: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17985128/

I suspect is the use of smaller, commuter aircraft (RJ's, and so on) to smaller airports with the difficulties in handling caskets/remains containers, limited the ability to handle such sacred remains with sufficient dignity.

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6119 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
I suspect is the use of smaller, commuter aircraft (RJ's, and so on) to smaller airports with the difficulties in handling caskets/remains containers,

RJ's can't take caskets at all. The E170 can't take large caskets, and the military generally uses large caskets.

As far as forklifts are concerned, the airlines wouldn't have to use them if the families didn't request such large, heavy caskets that often weigh upwards of 600+ pounds when the remains are inside. Those caskets in particular are despised by anyone who has to handle them.



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User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8731 times:

Kalitta, one of the worst cargo carriers in the world, hated by employees and shippers... great choice.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8692 times:

Isn't Kalitta the airline that's notorious for having important bits (like an engine and a few doors) fall off of their aircraft in flight?

I fail to see how shipping those who died in service on crumbling rust-bucket is more dignified than a commercial air carrier.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8553 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 3):
Isn't Kalitta the airline that's notorious for having important bits (like an engine and a few doors) fall off of their aircraft in flight?

Yeah... that's them. I believe they disposed of an engine in Lake Michigan not too long ago.



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1368 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8520 times:

Its a rotating contract, a "fixed buy" Evergreen and Atlas had it when I was down in Kuwait, 747-200s in both cases. AMC swaps carriers every 6 months to keep things "fair" in the business sense. They also are carrying general freight for the military.

As far as honoring the fallen, they get a full honor guard ceremony on loading, can't speak for unloading because I've never seen it State Side, but I know they did there, and ramp operations would stop.


User currently offlineCAMPBELL From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8396 times:

The aircraft used is the FALCON and the Human Remain Shipments are flown from Dover if the deceased final destination is more than 300 miles from Dover. Our office dealt with the transportation of the war dead, before the contract we flew the deceased on C-9 or C-23 aircraft.

User currently offlineDTW757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8223 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 3):
Isn't Kalitta the airline that's notorious for having important bits (like an engine and a few doors) fall off of their aircraft in flight?

I fail to see how shipping those who died in service on crumbling rust-bucket is more dignified than a commercial air carrier.

There are two different companies. There is Kalitta and Kalitta Charters. Kalitta Charters operates Falcon 20's for these military charters. A good friend of mine was a Falcon captain for Kalitta and has worked several of these flights.

The men and women who give their lives for this country deserve to be flown home on a dedicated airplane just like they are doing. To have them arrive in their home town with their families waiting and have their casket pulled out of the cargo hold of a 757 with everyone else's luggage just doesn't seem right. These people gave their lives for us; giving them their own airplane to take them home for the last time is the least we can do.

As far as the Kalitta Charters airplanes being crumbling rust buckets, they always seem to be well maintained. I've been to their hanger and it's neat and clean. The airplanes look well painted and clean so to call them crumbling rust buckets really isn't fair.



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
User currently offlineChinaClipper40 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

As a former USAF officer who served during wartime, I am appalled and disgusted by the way the current Bush Administration has heretofore been so cavalier and callous in its treatment of the return of the remains of military personnel killed in the line of duty. It is SO typical of this administration - use people callously to further the White House's nefarious ends and then treat them like garbage when they are of no further use to the White House agenda. Even during the Vietnam War, which most Americans strongly opposed, the remains of dead U.S. service personnel were returned to the U.S. with more dignity than has heretofore been the case for our young men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. The abolition, by the Bush Administration, of honor guard receptions for the returning remains of dead service personnel was simply another deliberate and callous move to hide the REAL carnage and cost of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from the American public. Just like warehousing wounded U.S. soldiers in off-campus vermin-infested rooms at Walter Reed Army Medical Center that third-world hospitals would be ashamed of, just distant enough from the main hospital so that reporters would have a low probability of seeing the sickening chronic wounds and life-long physical and mental damage these young men and women have suffered. As someone with a son currently serving in Afghanistan, this strikes home in a VERY personal way. It all makes me want to puke.

ChinaClipper40


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2230 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8079 times:
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Personally I think the reason for this is that they do not want the public to see the number of personnel returning home this way. If it's out of the publics eye less publicity is given.

As far as anyone thinking airline treatment is callous I'm very sorry about your conceptions. Please remember that ANYONE deceased is transported this way.



Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineChinaClipper40 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8034 times:

Quoting M404 (Reply 9):
As far as anyone thinking airline treatment is callous I'm very sorry about your conceptions. Please remember that ANYONE deceased is transported this way.

I'm not talking about that. I'm referring to the previous frequent lack of honor guard and respectful ceremony when the body was finally off-loaded at the family's home airport. Often the caskets were simply off-loaded by forklift or luggage belt with about as much respect as would be given to a grand piano shipped by commercial air. In full view of the grieving parents. It's NOT the airlines I'm criticising. It's the callous attitude of the Bush White House. To a veteran with a son currently serving in Afghanistan, all I can say is that I am grateful that the Congress finally stood up to Bush and forced this more decent and respectful way of handling dead servicemen and servicewomen. Thank God for Congressman Duncan Hunter, Senator Barbara Boxer, and all the other representatives and senators who forced the Administration to change its appalling and callous behavior.

ChinaClipper40


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6119 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7986 times:

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 10):
Often the caskets were simply off-loaded by forklift or luggage belt with about as much respect as would be given to a grand piano shipped by commercial air.

With all due respect to you and your son, have you ever had to load or offload a Human Remains from a narrow-body aircraft such as the MD-80 or 737? ( Wide-bodies don't count, since they use containers and scissor-lifts. Forklifts aren't used to load/unload commercial aircraft. )

It's not an easy task by any means---especially the heavy ones. Caskets are shipped on a plywood base that spreads the weight of the casket, as well as protect the casket. With heavier caskets, the force needed to move these caskets often takes several people in a small amount of space to maneuver the casket onto the bag belt; however, remains, whether they are military or civilian, are to be treated with utmost respect, no matter how light, heavy, or hard to maneuver the casket may be.



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User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7934 times:

Ok, I've been a forum "lurker" for awhile but I had to sign up to reply because I am involved in this.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 3):
I fail to see how shipping those who died in service on crumbling rust-bucket is more dignified than a commercial air carrier.

These planes are not "crumbling rust-buckets" they are the best cargo Falcon 20's out there. There isn't a better suited company that could do this. We have the largest stock of Falcon and CF700 parts in the world with some of the most knowledgable mechanics out there. The dozen or so of us that are doing this take this very seriously since we are the only civilian pilots able to do this and it is a very important job. This is a very important job and emotionally tough on us but we know the importance of what we are doing for these guys and their families. The old way of the family picking up their loved one at a cargo terminal after the casket rode along in the belly of an airliner was far from the right way of doing things.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 3):
Isn't Kalitta the airline that's notorious for having important bits (like an engine and a few doors) fall off of their aircraft in flight?

Kalitta Air. Kalitta Charters has a different owner, different management, different people and a different philosophy of doing things. I don't work for Connie so I don't know how things are over there, but if it really is that bad I'd do something about it or leave.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 2):
Kalitta, one of the worst cargo carriers in the world, hated by employees and shippers... great choice.

Kalitta Air again. I am proud to work for Doug and fly these airplanes. I am proud that I am one of the few doing this. As the youngest Falcon captain here with a lot of years left in my career, I also know that I will never be asked to do a more important job. Before you guys bash something you don't know about, do some homework first. This is something very personal and important to me and the rest of us here in DOV.

~TB



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

I think people would have been fine with using a forklift to unload, IF there was any honor to how it was done. Frankly from what little I've seen, a side of beef gets more "honor" than does a US serviceman.

I don't think it would have put a huge burden on the military to have a couple of service men dress up and escort the body from the aircraft to where it was going from there. The ramp worker would have done the work of unloading in a safe and efficient manner, and with even a limited honor guard waiting just off the ramp for the fallen serviceman's remains to arrive, honor could have been served. Hell, I bet retired/wounded/on leave personnel would have been willing to do this if asked.

I don't think any of the service men would want the full honor guard n frills n shit everytime they are handled, but on the other hand, they should be treated with respect. More respect than you would give a crate of MRE's anyway.


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7900 times:

I think the Bush administration, who put an end to media photography of this ...



... now wants to put an end to these scenes. They're trying to keep the war of of the citizens' sight.



User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7658 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7867 times:

As a non-American I must admit to having great respect for the US military when I first heard stories of remains being escorted all the way home, from the Viet Nam era. As a now all volunteer force, I always thought they did that for the supreme sacrifice these individuals made and to pay respect. The move to commercial transport was made for money reasons, pure and simple, that in an of itself may not have been a bad thing unless something went wrong. Elaborate rules and procedures were put in place for commercial shipping, however, once you "outsource" something to save money, you also loose some control over the events, thats why outsourcing is cheaper.

Regarding keeping them out of the public eye, I don't see how this does that. The US is an open country, these flights are going into public airports, the one "American" thing I have always been uncomfortable with, is the need of the media to broadcast your hurt and anguish in real time to all and sundry, and no, it does not only apply to life and death, remember when you had to wait for athletes to shower and put on clothes before addresing the media, or being convicted of a crime before appearing in a perp walk?


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7864 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 13):
I think people would have been fine with using a forklift to unload, IF there was any honor to how it was done. Frankly from what little I've seen, a side of beef gets more "honor" than does a US serviceman.

Honor being offloaded with a forklift? Come on. These guys gave everything, there is no honor in being offloaded like a piece of freight after you gave your life for you country in a conflict that you may or may not even believe in, but know it's your job to be there.

As much as my heart sinks everytime I am told that 6 or 7 more caskets arrived and there will be more trips for us, I know the ones we will carry will be delivered to their loved ones with dignity and respect. We get into small airports with no airline service allowing for privacy for the family in which they can be right there at the airplane when we arrive. It cuts down on the travel time for the family and allows entire communities to show their support. Honor guards are waiting ahead of time for us and the ceremony is able to be seen by everyone. We have a lift on the aircraft that is engineered to do this job specifically that we the flight crew operate and don't need ramp personel to help. We are trained to be apart of the ceremony that occurs on both ends. Getting the most direct way home with the least amount of hassle for a grieving family is the least anyone could do for these guys. An honor guard is with the casket on the plane at all times from the beginning of the day to the end of the day. There is nothing honorable about a greasy old forklift or an airliner belly with a baggage belt loader.

~TB



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineAlfa75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7838 times:

Quoting M404 (Reply 9):
Personally I think the reason for this is that they do not want the public to see the number of personnel returning home this way. If it's out of the publics eye less publicity is given.

I'll second that.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 15):
Regarding keeping them out of the public eye, I don't see how this does that. The US is an open country, these flights are going into public airports, the one "American" thing I have always been uncomfortable with, is the need of the media to broadcast your hurt and anguish in real time to all and sundry, and no, it does not only apply to life and death, remember when you had to wait for athletes to shower and put on clothes before addresing the media, or being convicted of a crime before appearing in a perp walk?

Cargo planes do not unload at passenger gates. They are unloaded well beyond the view of the general public. And yes we need to see the dead coming home. Our President spouts that we are fighting them over there so that we don't have to fight them here. Well guess what? People still die and having them come home cloaked in darkness away from our eyes does them a disservice.

I may not agree with this war but our fallen soldiers deserve the respect their President won't give them.



The best things in life aren't things!
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 7716 times:

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 16):
Honor being offloaded with a forklift?

There is no loss of honor in a tool being used. The problem lies not with the use of a forklift, but rather the fact that in many cases no one is there to represent the military.

A plane is a tool, a car is a tool, while a forklift is not the most elegant piece of machinery its also a tool. Do you think that any serviceman worthy of honor would rather have people risk injury trying to hand unload a casket from an aircraft rather than use a forklift? I can see your point if it was a military base, with a low load height military cargo plane, but if its a commercial flight, then well, even a 737 is high enough to really hurt some people trying to hand unload it.


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 18):
A plane is a tool, a car is a tool, while a forklift is not the most elegant piece of machinery its also a tool. Do you think that any serviceman worthy of honor would rather have people risk injury trying to hand unload a casket from an aircraft rather than use a forklift? I can see your point if it was a military base, with a low load height military cargo plane, but if its a commercial flight, then well, even a 737 is high enough to really hurt some people trying to hand unload it.

Well of course everything is a tool in a sense, I see your point. But why use a rock when you could use a hammer(and so on, you know)? That's why there is a lift on the airplane that is specifically designed for one job, lifting the casket on and off, straight up and down. No one has filmed the offloading ceremony to my knowledge, aside from family members of course, so it's kinda hard to explain. But it's a nice piece of equipment we built and there is no need for a nasty forklift or anyone else except the flight crew to work it and the honor guard to be there along with the family. No need to hand load, that is dangerous and awkward in any aircraft except for of course something with a ramp like a C-130 or something. Just take my word for it, the lift system built just for this is much more elegant than any other system I can think of.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineChinaClipper40 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7492 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 11):
With all due respect to you and your son, have you ever had to load or offload a Human Remains from a narrow-body aircraft such as the MD-80 or 737?

Dammit, please READ what I said. I have no objection to the use of mechanical assist devices for off-loading military caskets. What I said was: "I'm referring to the previous frequent lack of honor guard and respectful ceremony when the body was finally off-loaded at the family's home airport." THAT'S what burns me. This imbecile President, with a subnormal IQ and a clinically diagnosable narcissistic personality disorder, gets this country into a war on deliberately trumped-up phony intelligence and a pack of deliberate lies, and then has the unmitigated arrogance and gall to deny grieving families the dignity of an honor guard and a respectful ceremony when their dead sons and daughters are returned to them. Furthermore, he deliberately forbids newspaper reporters and photographers from having access to the receipt of bodies at Dover Air Force Base, so as to keep the American public in the dark about the true human cost of this war. This is NOT the same country I was born in, grew up in, or served in the military for. I was born and raised in a democracy. Bush and his neocon puppet-masters have turned it into an elective dictatorship. My anger stems NOT from the use of mechanical assist devices to unload heavy military caskets from aircraft. It stems from the arrogant and callous disrespect that this Administration has repeatedly shown for those families whose sons and daughters have made the ultimate sacrifice defending an indefensible foreign policy based on blatant deceit, deliberate lies, an ultra-right-wing ideological agenda, and an unbridled sense of arrogance and self-entitlement.

ChinaClipper40


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7410 times:

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 8):
As a former USAF officer who served during wartime, I am appalled and disgusted by the way the current Bush Administration has heretofore been so cavalier and callous in its treatment of the return of the remains of military personnel killed in the line of duty. It is SO typical of this administration - use people callously to further the White House's nefarious ends and then treat them like garbage when they are of no further use to the White House agenda. Even during the Vietnam War, which most Americans strongly opposed, the remains of dead U.S. service personnel were returned to the U.S. with more dignity than has heretofore been the case for our young men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. The abolition, by the Bush Administration, of honor guard receptions for the returning remains of dead service personnel was simply another deliberate and callous move to hide the REAL carnage and cost of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from the American public. Just like warehousing wounded U.S. soldiers in off-campus vermin-infested rooms at Walter Reed Army Medical Center that third-world hospitals would be ashamed of, just distant enough from the main hospital so that reporters would have a low probability of seeing the sickening chronic wounds and life-long physical and mental damage these young men and women have suffered. As someone with a son currently serving in Afghanistan, this strikes home in a VERY personal way. It all makes me want to puke.

Okay, now here is an unpaid political announcement.

Doc, the real carnage was during Vietnam, I was there, and flew many of our fallen heros home from there on my KC-135. There were over 53,000 brave Americans who gave their lives during the Vietnam War. I hope that in your profession, you worked hard to keep that number from increasing. I might add that most of Vietnam happened during the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations, both Democrates. Both tried to manage the war from the White House, and that cost us a lot of our men, because of their incompetence.

No, I am not minimumizing the current GWOT. I agree, with your son in Afghanistan, it should stike you in a personal way. I hope and pray he returns to you unharmed. When he does, give him a big hug, and please pass on I said thank you.

The War in Iraq and the problems at Walter Reed are two totally different things, and not related to each other. The Walter Reed problem was because of gross mismanagement on the part of the US Army. That problem is being dealth with as we write today. People have had their careers ended, as they should have. Neither Congress, nor the Bush Administration knew of these problems before this past Christmas.

The war in Iraq has costs us about 3200 of our finest men and women. That is tragic. But, those heros, and the heros in Afghanistan, have kept the terrorist off our shores. I feel pain for the loss of each and everyone of my brothers and sisters, and those of my British, Australian, Polish, Japanese, Canadian, and other friends.

Now, back on topic. We have had a few Kallita Charters Falcons arrive here at DFW, bringing home our local heros. Each flight is told to us about 3 days in advance. A US Army Honor Guard has met each flight, and off loaded our hero. The hero is marched, slowly, over to the hearst (usually about 300' away), lead by a US Flag. So far, the families have requested private arrival ceromonies, we honor that request. Our public Affairs Department is not notified until after the Falcon departs DFW. These are handled on our General Aviation Ramp, out of the public eye, but not on a freight ramp or hanger ramp.

Dignaty and privacy are the most important elements.

DFW does not charge a landing or parking fee for these flights. If fuel is needed, we do not charge the airport handling fee.


User currently offlineChinaClipper40 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 180 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
There were over 53,000 brave Americans who gave their lives during the Vietnam War. I hope that in your profession, you worked hard to keep that number from increasing. I might add that most of Vietnam happened during the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations, both Democrates.

You are spot-on on both counts. I served as a USAF medical officer during the Vietnam War, and I lost close personal friends during that war. And, yes, we worked VERY hard to develop new and improved techniques for treating the wounded of that war, especially in the area of burn management. Some of the medical developments I worked on during my USAF service were absolutely revolutionary. And, yes, the Vietnam horror show happened mostly on the Democrats' watch. This is NOT a Republican-Democrat issue. It's an issue between Presidents who are arrogant narcissists and who either don't understand or despise the constraints on Presidential power enshrined in the U.S. Constitution (Johnson, G.W. Bush) and those who believe that Presidents are the servants of the American electorate and who respect the separation of powers between the Administration, the Congress, and the Judiciary enshrined in the U.S. Constitution (Eisenhower, Ford, Carter, Clinton).

ChinaClipper40


User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7048 times:

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 22):
You are spot-on on both counts. I served as a USAF medical officer during the Vietnam War, and I lost close personal friends during that war. And, yes, we worked VERY hard to develop new and improved techniques for treating the wounded of that war, especially in the area of burn management. Some of the medical developments I worked on during my USAF service were absolutely revolutionary.

Thank you guys so much for your service. The stories I have heard from some teachers back in High School that were in Vietnam were horrible. Everything from how many fallen soldiers came home and especially the ones that didn't, to how they themselves were very poorly recieved by people stateside when they came back on R/R and after the war. Thank you guys so much for everything you have given and for your service again. The amazing support from communities now when we bring a fallen hero back home brings a tear to my eye every single time and I think of all the stories from the past and thank God it has changed for the better from past era's.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7014 times:

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 19):
No one has filmed the offloading ceremony to my knowledge, aside from family members of course, so it's kinda hard to explain.



A Kalita Falcon bringing home the remains of a fallen US Marine. The ceremony was not filmed in it's entirety, but I see no problem with how he was treated. It appears there are even Patriot Guard riders escorting this fallen hero home. Brought a tear to my eye.

Edit: Found another video, this appears to be a US Army Soldier.





[Edited 2007-04-09 02:57:50]

25 Rampkontroler : CO handles all remains with the utmost dignity and respect, and deservedly so. I too, believe the public should be allowed to see our heroes coming ho
26 LTBEWR : As to not allowing the press access to the Dover AFB and other military sites where military personal remains go through, I believe that policy starte
27 Flybyguy : Military personnel who have died honourably in battle should be brought home on military metal... plain and simple. I really don't care how respectful
28 Rampkontroler : I gotta say I agree with you there, I was merely pointing out that CO (and probably most airlines) does indeed handle with care and respect.
29 KC135TopBoom : As in every war since Vietnam, our fallen heros return home the fastest way possible. From the combat zone to an intermedent point, it is most likely
30 Post contains links Fleet Service : On the subject of fallen members of the service, I'd like to suggest this series from the Rocky Mountain News. http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/new
31 LHR777 : I just finished reading the article in its entirety. Thank you.
32 AirFrnt : With all due respect (and I do recognize that this discussion is far more emotion and political then airline related), you appear to be wrong here. F
33 Tb727 : Thank you for finding those videos. The Patriot Guard Riders is an awesome group made up of some really great people, they are there at nearly every
34 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Oh yeah, showing these images might upset the twits on the way to a day at the mall. Besides if they want educational t.v., there is always the Jerry
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Priceline In The UK - No More Bidding For Flights posted Tue Mar 8 2005 14:59:22 by Rwylie77
No More 757's For Am? posted Wed Jan 26 2005 04:36:12 by Jpintoa
No More B-757 For Am posted Thu Jan 6 2005 01:16:53 by Jpintoa
No More *A Themed A/c For SQ? posted Wed May 5 2010 17:47:11 by Coal
No More GE For TUI 787s? posted Thu Dec 31 2009 21:32:31 by PM
Why No More Life For UA 757? posted Sun Nov 8 2009 22:34:10 by VC10er
Two Year No Fatalities Streak For US Airlines posted Mon Jan 12 2009 07:35:01 by Adam42185
SWA: No International Routes For Us posted Wed Mar 19 2008 17:18:34 by Glbltrvlr
Why No International Website For US Airways? posted Wed Jan 9 2008 15:30:07 by Gilesdavies
Why No First Class For US Airways Express CR9's? posted Sun Jan 6 2008 20:23:13 by AA767LOVER
Emirates Confirmed "No Low-cost For Us" posted Wed Jul 4 2007 18:12:30 by UAEflyer
No More Pets For AC posted Sat Jun 23 2007 03:02:29 by Boeingluvr
Alitalia: No More Skirts For Its F/A (funny) posted Fri Nov 10 2006 11:27:17 by Wingedarrow