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Why So Many 747 At LHR?  
User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10710 times:

Hello ,

Some days ago I was at LHR and on my way back to FRA at night I saw at least 15 747s of BA

What are they doing at LHR if you search for one LH 747 in FRA after 23:00 you´ll not find even one . Also many 777s .

Whats the reason for this ??

Thanks for all answers,

Konstantin

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6371 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10692 times:

It's their main hub so most of the fleet is there and they have lots of 747s and 777s. In fact, LHR is dominated by BA aircraft and in one year they will all be pushed to the west at T5!

User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10618 times:

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 1):
It's their main hub so most of the fleet is there and they have lots of 747s and 777s. In fact, LHR is dominated by BA aircraft and in one year they will all be pushed to the west at T5!

I know that , FRA is also the main Hub of LH and all 747s / 340s / 330s are flying .

Having tons of 747s and 777s at LHR is dead capital .

Is this maybe mismanagement ?


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10606 times:

What time were you at LHR?

User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10597 times:

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 3):

between 21:00 and 22:30


User currently offlineEZYAirbus From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2462 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10537 times:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Thread starter):
I saw at least 15 747s of BA

They have 57 747-400s in service

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
Is this maybe mismanagement ?

Not at all, still 42 in the air somewhere earning lots of money for BA

Glenn



http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

Some of those 747-400's seen will be in for overnight maintenance, others will have arrived in the evening and will be the first departures out the next moring. There is no mismanagement, BA 747's don't just sit on the ground doing nothing all the time. As BA have 57 there is always going to be a small percentage on maintenance. Also for example some on some days there are more BA 747-400 flights than others as well.

User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1449 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

I think the same goes for FRA but I think there's a cutoff time for arrivals at LHR meaning they'd either have to be at LHR by a certain time of the night or else not until morning.

Wait until you visit NRT, there's always a TON of JAL 747's at NRT, not to mention NW's!



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10387 times:

Correct, it has nothing to do with mismanagement at all. BA also has a bigger 747 fleet compared to LH as far as I know which might explain you will see more 747s parked at LHR compared to FRA. KL also has quite a few 747s parked at AMS overnight. As Theginge pointed out, the 747s you saw are the first ones to depart LHR between 05:00 and 07:00. What you saw is just fleet management, combined with local regulations (environment) and maintenance, nothing more and nothing less.

A388


User currently offlineSpencer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1635 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10381 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 7):
I think there's a cutoff time for arrivals at LHR

Yes, correct, there's a curfew at LHR. It's something like 23:30-04:30.
Spencer.



EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4065 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10367 times:

After 2100 BA has the following Longhaul departures from T4

2115 031 HKG B744
2115 057 JNB B744
2115 063 EBB B767
2125 011 SIN B744
2135 015 SIN/SYD B777
2140 109 DXB B777
2145 247 GRU/GIG B744
2150 199 BOM B777
2200 009 BKK/SYD B744
2215 027 HKG B744
2215 083 ABV B777
2230 163 TLV B767
2230 157 KWI B777

Thats 13 aircraft waiting to depart at 2100.


User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10318 times:

LHR is such a big airport, 15 747 doesn't surprises me one bit

User currently offlineLHStarAlliance From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10247 times:

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 10):

All A/Cs where waiting on the apron , and 15 was a very cautious number , it´s safe to say that at least 20+ A/Cs were waiting .

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):

At FRA there´s not even 1 LH 747 parked . Maybe some in the Technik Hangers

Quoting Theginge (Reply 6):
others will have arrived in the evening and will be the first departures out the next moring.

This sounds as the most logical answers for me ...


User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9969 times:

I think that KLM has the most usage of 747's around 18 hours a day, but I am not sure.

But at other ports there are also lot of BA 747 and JAL 747.
BA has also more than 40 777's. One of the greatest widebody fleet in the world. Am almost sure they will expand it with 748 or A380 and A350/787


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9830 times:

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 13):
I think that KLM has the most usage of 747's around 18 hours a day, but I am not sure.

Our fvery respected member HB-IWC has all the details on aircraft usage. He always gives very interesting details on the aircraft usage of airlines and also compares them.

So HB-IWC please fill us in on these details.

A388


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8494 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9820 times:
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Given BA's nature to serve many intercontinental destination double and tripple times daily, its no surprise they fly so many 777 and 744's. Most cities in North America & Asia served by BA from LHR are flown to 14 or more times weekly. Many BA 777 and 744 are at LHR in the middle of the day since most flights from Asia and America arrive in the morning and depart in the afternoon.

User currently offlineCirrusDriver From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

I would guess that a portion of it has to do with the maximization of precious landing slots at LHR with aircraft that can carry more pax and freight?

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6590 times:

British Airways is one of the largest operators of 747's in the world. LHR is their main British hub. Virtually every 747 they operate passes through LHR.

LHR is also the main international airport in the UK. Airlines from all over the world fly their flagship aircraft, which in many cases are the 747 aircraft, to London. It "shows them off" by presenting new, modern aircraft in one of the premier cities of the world.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineLAXspotter From India, joined Jan 2007, 3650 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

Wow, its shocking to hear that LHR has a curfew. Its hard to believe one of the major transportation hubs in the world has a curfew.


"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
User currently offlineExperimental From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

When I left LHR last Thursday morning on BA from T4 we turned away from the terminal behind 3 747-400. later on it became apparent there were a further two behind us. 6 BA 747-400 must have looked fantastic to the aircraft holding on the other side of the runway.

I was at a loss however at deciding where they were all going at about 11:15. We were going to BAH (slightly delayed), I know there were JFK, DEL and IAD flights leaving. Any Ideas?


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1449 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 18):
Wow, its shocking to hear that LHR has a curfew. Its hard to believe one of the major transportation hubs in the world has a curfew.

You can Thank the godamn people who complain about the noise. Nothing is worse than landing at LHR at 6am then wait forever for the tug to get there so that you can be towed to your gate. My issue has always been, you can't tell me a plane taxiing will make more noise than a plane that has just landed and deployed reverse thrusters.  boggled 

I believe FRA has the same BS too.



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting Experimental (Reply 19):
I was at a loss however at deciding where they were all going at about 11:15. We were going to BAH (slightly delayed), I know there were JFK, DEL and IAD flights leaving. Any Ideas?

Lets see - around that time, you could have a couple of JFK, a LAX, MIA, BOM, ORD, YYZ.....

I seriously doubt we had 20+ 747-400's sitting around on the ramp after 9pm. Overnight aircraft consists of maybe 4-5 max, out of a fleet of 57 747's. We do have a lot of 747 departures between 9pm and 10.30pm. Also, depending on the day, there may have been issues with loading, re-fuelling, crew transport, cargo delays or any number of other factors that delayed a bank of departures.

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 20):
Nothing is worse than landing at LHR at 6am then wait forever for the tug to get there so that you can be towed to your gate. My issue has always been, you can't tell me a plane taxiing will make more noise than a plane that has just landed and deployed reverse thrusters.

Use of reverse thrust is banned before 7am. Aircraft now self-taxi on to the victor pier at Terminal 4 between 6am and 7am. T4 gates 2 and 3 still require tugs, due to the proximity of local housing to these gates. Aircraft also self-taxi onto Terminal 1 gates in the morning.


User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1449 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 21):
Use of reverse thrust is banned before 7am. Aircraft now self-taxi on to the victor pier at Terminal 4 between 6am and 7am. T4 gates 2 and 3 still require tugs, due to the proximity of local housing to these gates. Aircraft also self-taxi onto Terminal 1 gates in the morning.

Thanx for the info. Didn't know reverse thrust is banned in the mornings. Out of curiosity, what happens if runway is wet and an aircraft comes in heavy absolutely needing to use reverse thrust?



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlineLHRman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 398 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Its not banned.. thats a bit of extremity. The actual statement on the charts is..

Reverse Thrust
Avoid use of reverse thrust between 2330-0600LT except for safety reasons.

Therefore, more often than not the early morning arrivals will not need it because they don't have to get off the runway so quick therefore they can rollout for longer (if landing the 9's BA aircraft won't wanna get off til either S3/4 if landing on 09R or A5/4 if landing on the L).

A big note is that "except for safety reasons" eg: Weather conditions mean that the use of reverse thrust is advisable (precipitation/low vis), or something on the aircraft maybe u/s.

The stands that require a tug out/in at this moment is the Maintainence area, Stands 401/402/403/463/461 & the V Apron. Which for those not all that familiar are the stands at the back left of T4. This is once again between the hours of 2330 -0630LT.

Hope this clears up the matter..
Dave P

P.s I am currently looking into all 74 & 72 departures after 2030 and will try and find out how many at any one time will have been on the ground.

[Edited 2007-04-09 13:41:10]


Always after the picture you can't get..
User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 8 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4346 times:

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 22):
Out of curiosity, what happens if runway is wet and an aircraft comes in heavy absolutely needing to use reverse thrust?

I've often wandered about this! I'd imagine idle reverse, max braking, then reverse thrust if deemed absolutely necessary.

I think it's something like this - Commanders of aircraft are requested to avoid the use of reverse thrust after landing,
consistent with the safe operation of the aircraft, between 2330 and 0600 hours

Meaning, IMHO, if the safety of the landing is in question, then reverse thrust can be used.


25 Planesarecool : Then it'll use reverse thrust. A noise curfew cannot come in the way of safety, and if it's absolutely necessary then it will be used. Although there
26 BCALBOY : I think it does ! Very few operations can be planned to op in the 'Night Jet ' period. Some carriers have historic rights particularly for early morn
27 Planesarecool : What i was trying to say is that although there is a night curfew limiting departures between 23:29-06:00, it doesn't mean that absolutely no flights
28 BCALBOY : Yes but it is a big restriction. Bmi can-t decide to improve utilisation by doing a 2330 to PMI returning @ 0530. Yr post suggested NJB had no impact
29 ADiZzy : I am going to guess and say that this happens since LHR is the home of BA! Also.....a huge proportion of Long-haul flights to distant areas of the wor
30 DiscoverCSG : or on the ground elsewhere ... Actually, you can remove "virtually" - every 744 in BA's fleet is based at LHR. Every flight a BA 744 flies either sta
31 Post contains images Planesarecool : I'm not talking about airlines scheduling flights within the curfew, i'm talking about delayed flights departing within the curfew, which are rarely
32 Wrighbrothers : Isn't it, that they aren't banned from taking off after 22:59, but get fined, maybe I'm wrong, but I've always understood it was that if an aircraft w
33 LHR777 : You are of course, correct. I suppose we just refer to it at work as the 'night jet ban', consisting of 'take-off and landing ban' and 'reverse-thrus
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