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A380 Testing In Germany  
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6225 times:

According to the database here, i can see that the A380 is under heavy testing in Germany only, we all know that LH is the second largest customer (hopefully i am not mistaken), LH took the aircraft to USA, at least once a week the aircraft goes to FRA or MUC.
With the largest order from EK, why we only saw the A380 only one time in DXB? any possibility to do a LHR (for example) trip with EK staff and passengers?
SQ didn't ask for a trip like LH!
Does it mean that LH is special to Airbus  Wink

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6078 times:

The boss of Lufthansa,Mayrhuber ,said yesterday to the large magazine "Der Spiegel" ,that the LH pilots who flew the A380 are absolutely thrilled with the aircraft's performance.
Following Mayrhuber, the aircraft behaves astonishingly ,flies very stable but has the responsiveness of a sports-car.
He is convinced the aircraft will sell very well once entered in Service ...
To Mayrhuber the aircraft fulfills all contractual promises for Lufthansa,exept the late deliveries.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):
we all know that LH is the second largest customer (hopefully i am not mistaken)

They were until QF and SQ ordered more. Current top 4:

EK: 43 (+2 from ILFC)
QF: 20
SQ: 19
LH: 15

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):

Yes, LH is really satisfied with the A380. Why wouldn't they? All the problems are coming from the manufacturing process, not the aircraft's performance.


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3738 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5902 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
the LH pilots who flew the A380 are absolutely thrilled with the aircraft's performance.

So far so good.

Unfortunately, the only performance that interests operators, and that's operating costs, won't be known until the a/c enters service.
Although, so far, all the signs are out there that they will be on target.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 3):

Unfortunately, the only performance that interests operators, and that's operating costs, won't be known until the a/c enters service.

Well, he also said that the A380 fulfills all contractual promises (as Beaucaire posted) and it will be a big leap. Which is from an operators standpoint a more important statement.

pelican


User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5809 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
The boss of Lufthansa,Mayrhuber ,said yesterday to the large magazine "Der Spiegel" ,that the LH pilots who flew the A380 are absolutely thrilled with the aircraft's performance.
Following Mayrhuber, the aircraft behaves astonishingly ,flies very stable but has the responsiveness of a sports-car.
He is convinced the aircraft will sell very well once entered in Service ...
To Mayrhuber the aircraft fulfills all contractual promises for Lufthansa,exept the late deliveries.

Didn't really answer UAEflyer's question though did it? His point being (if I am correct) that LH seems to be over represented in the A380 exposure stakes when other operators have a more substantial order on the books.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3516 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5777 times:

Quoting Jasond (Reply 5):
Didn't really answer UAEflyer's question though did it? His point being (if I am correct) that LH seems to be over represented in the A380 exposure stakes when other operators have a more substantial order on the books.

Maybe, but first of all, LH was a big customer for all Airbus planes so far, with the exception of the A318. Additionally, LH is German, so I am pretty sure that AF and LH do have a very good connection to Airbus.

Furthermore, FRA - JFK is one of the routes which the A380 really was designed for, so this was a very realistic test. While DXB will see lots of A380s, this airport will handle the A380 without too many problems. Older airports like JFK and FRA, however, might have more problems, so those need to be testet first.

All of that is only speculation, of course, but bear in mind that LH also brought the FAs for the evacuation of the A380.


User currently offlineOvercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5777 times:

Do you think this has something to do with LH being the first European operator of RR powered A380. I'm sure when the EA version goes through route proving it will either or both AF and EK being involved.

User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5701 times:

Wouldn't it just be pragmatism? If I'm not mistaken, the interior fitting was done in Hamburg, and LH just happens to be based in the same country (and a client of the A380 of course).


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5695 times:

I think tests going on in cooperation with LH iso of EK despite having ordered less aircraft have to do with the airlines capabilities & existing extensive contacts with Airbus. Ofcourse EK could do them too, if they hired the people to do it for them  Wink



User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9164 posts, RR: 29
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5679 times:

The reason for that could be that LH has invested a lot of work already, the carrier has already today a number of qualified A380 pilots, at least one technical team of about 20 familiar with the A380, has cooperated with Airbus on technical and operational matters. In addition to that, Fraport has done the same on the operations side, has A380 gates ready in place, the plabe could come here tomrrow and would be turned around on 90 minutes if required. An A380 maintenance base is under construction in FRA, in short, both companoies are most advanced and ready for the 380.


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5626 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 1):
Following Mayrhuber, the aircraft behaves astonishingly ,flies very stable but has the responsiveness of a sports-car.
He is convinced the aircraft will sell very well once entered in Service ...
To Mayrhuber the aircraft fulfills all contractual promises for Lufthansa,exept the late deliveries.



Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
Yes, LH is really satisfied with the A380. Why wouldn't they? All the problems are coming from the manufacturing process, not the aircraft's performance.

I am just glad to hear this. What about Tim Clarks comments about the plane being few tonnes overweight? Which guy should we trust? Mayrhuber or Clark?



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3476 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5549 times:

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 11):
I am just glad to hear this. What about Tim Clarks comments about the plane being few tonnes overweight? Which guy should we trust? Mayrhuber or Clark?

Both statements maybe perfectly correct, given the way contract guarantees are written. Why not trust Mayrhuber and Clark?



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineMusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 12):
Why not trust Mayrhuber and Clark?

I wish I could but sometimes I just get too tired about Clark who is so noisy all over the media. I love the plane though and I love to fly on one asap.



Lufthansa Group of Airlines
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3738 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 11):
Which guy should we trust? Mayrhuber or Clark?

Neither. I'll believe the figures only.

[Edited 2007-04-09 15:05:53]


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5356 times:

Quoting Jasond (Reply 5):
Didn't really answer UAEflyer's question though did it? His point being (if I am correct) that LH seems to be over represented in the A380 exposure stakes when other operators have a more substantial order on the books.

 checkmark 

I still didn't get a proper answer, Could EK or QR ask for a ride to LHR or CDG ?


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5322 times:

There are all clients pilot's being taken for rides and training-flights permanantly..
Issu with LH is their historically strong engineering presence in Toulouse.They have since many years set up relations with R&D at Airbus,influencing the specs of many new aircraft.Airbus does trust LH-technics and maybe they have chosen an aircraft with engines different than EK,so there are less aircraft available for training and line-proving flights than with a specific engine-set up.
I would immagine EK have sent their engineers to Toulouse since the very beginning and their competence is not questioned.
But their track-record as "tester" for new aircraft might be less developed than with LH or Air France.
I'm pretty sure that had they requested line-proving flights from Dubai to any destination,Airbus would not have denied.But have they asked ???



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5301 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 8):
Wouldn't it just be pragmatism? If I'm not mistaken, the interior fitting was done in Hamburg, and LH just happens to be based in the same country (and a client of the A380 of course).

Rightly so. LH cabin personnel is the easiest to get in relation with cabin testing.

Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):
Does it mean that LH is special to Airbus

And yes, LH is special to Airbus as the flag carrier of one of the founding countries. LH was also behind the design of the A340.

It is also worth noting that despite this apparent close relations between Airbus and LH, no A380 has yet been displayed in full LH cs (to the disappointment of many last year).


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5256 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 16):
There are all clients pilot's being taken for rides and training-flights permanantly..
Issu with LH is their historically strong engineering presence in Toulouse.They have since many years set up relations with R&D at Airbus,influencing the specs of many new aircraft.Airbus does trust LH-technics and maybe they have chosen an aircraft with engines different than EK,so there are less aircraft available for training and line-proving flights than with a specific engine-set up.
I would imagine EK have sent their engineers to Toulouse since the very beginning and their competence is not questioned.
But their track-record as "tester" for new aircraft might be less developed than with LH or Air France.
I'm pretty sure that had they requested line-proving flights from Dubai to any destination,Airbus would not have denied.But have they asked ???

well, if it is regarding the presence in TLS, EK is their since Airbus the last delay announcement from Airbus.
If EK asked for route proving and Airbus refused, i can assure that His Excellency Mr. Tim Clark wouldn't stay quiet

Quoting Breiz (Reply 17):
It is also worth noting that despite this apparent close relations between Airbus and LH, no A380 has yet been displayed in full LH cs (to the disappointment of many last year).

I can understand from this that the trust issue between EK and Airbus is in its worst cases, because EK said that we will send our team to TLS and we will get report from them not Airbus about the status of the A380 program (they said the program not their A380s)


User currently offlineSangas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 13):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 12):
Why not trust Mayrhuber and Clark?

I wish I could but sometimes I just get too tired about Clark who is so noisy all over the media

I'm not convinced Mr. Mayrhuber's tendency to repeat "Forgeardian-like" platitudes and/or rationalisations regarding the troubled A380 program make him any more credible than the less sanguine Mr. Clark. Mayrhuber is merely at the opposite extreme from Clark in his public assessments of Airbus' failed execution of the development/industrialisation phase of the A380 program by consistantly downplaying the impact of the program delays upon LH.


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4956 times:

Quoting Sangas (Reply 19):
I'm not convinced Mr. Mayrhuber's tendency to repeat "Forgeardian-like" platitudes and/or rationalisations regarding the troubled A380 program make him any more credible than the less sanguine Mr. Clark. Mayrhuber is merely at the opposite extreme from Clark in his public assessments of Airbus' failed execution of the development/industrialisation phase of the A380 program by consistantly downplaying the impact of the program delays upon LH.

Maybe Clark is winging because he have the largest stake!!


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
I think tests going on in cooperation with LH iso of EK despite having ordered less aircraft have to do with the airlines capabilities & existing extensive contacts with Airbus. Ofcourse EK could do them too, if they hired the people to do it for them

Keesje is that you in the cockpit???


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
EK: 43 (+2 from ILFC)

The big question: what the heck does EK plan to do with 45 of these birds? In the age of ultra-long nonstops, is the demand for traffic in and out of the gulf that substantial?


User currently offlineLHFADUS From Germany, joined Apr 2007, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3221 times:

There are several reasons why LH is the "chosen one" among other A380 customers.

1. As already mentioned by others, their "traditional" connection with Airbus: they've helped in developing several busses. Aside of that, they own a large number of busses themselves, from all that Airbus has/had to offer, except the A318 - which leads us to

2. LH's maintenance-capabilities

3. LH's connection with FRA, a (future) major A380-hub, which can very well represent other "older" airports, originally not concipated for aircraft the size of the the A380 - unlike DXB for example

4. LH's staff, which is already, partially well prepared for the A380. LH has several pilots working for Airbus in a sideline, participating in tests, training LH's pilots. The cabin-crew, which performed the evacuation-tests, had to aquire a type-rating for the A380, which no other airline has done, as far as I know. Already having the type-rating, I guess the LH cabin-crew was the only choice for Airbus to "test" their new bird under realistic conditions, on a real flight, with "real" passengers.

Airbus' other option would have been doing those route-provings on their own. But why not make it all much more realistic, preferably with a customer who can fulfill all the criterias mentioned above?


User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

Quoting Sangas (Reply 19):
I'm not convinced Mr. Mayrhuber's tendency to repeat "Forgeardian-like" platitudes and/or rationalisations regarding the troubled A380 program make him any more credible than the less sanguine Mr. Clark. Mayrhuber is merely at the opposite extreme from Clark in his public assessments of Airbus' failed execution of the development/industrialisation phase of the A380 program by consistantly downplaying the impact of the program delays upon LH

Do you have quotes? I'm just wondering - can't remember to have heard any public statement downplaying the impact of the program delays. Mayrhuber (and other LH officials) repeatedly said that they are very happy with the A380's performance, but I think they did not publicly comment the impact of the delays. I'm sure in that respect they have something to say to Airbus which might not sound too nice...


25 Post contains links Sangas : "A380 hold-ups brushed aside" http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...5/a380-hold-ups-brushed-aside.html Personally, I find characterising what's tran
26 AutoThrust : Through the delays, Airbus got a long time to test the plane for theething problems unlike any other plane, so im pretty sure Airbus will deliver a v
27 UAEflyer : we are not into this subject, i personally tired from discussing what would Emirates do with their 45 birds, my advice to you is to wait and see what
28 Sangas : I'm not sure I subscribe to the theory that it's a foregone conclusion that the supplemental testing required to sort-out the "wiring harness imbrogl
29 Burkhard : Lufthansa offers these services to Airbus ,and out of their own interest. Lufthansa is not only the airline, Lufhansa Technik and other subsidiaries h
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