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EasyJet Expands At Berlin SXF  
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1198 posts, RR: 3
Posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Airport officials talk about a massive expandation of easyJet in Berlin. According to Berlin Airport easyjet plans to base a total of 20 aircrafts in Berlin within 2 years. The easyJet terminal (Terminal B) will be expanded!

Any more news?


Fly easyJet
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Thread starter):
Airport officials talk about a massive expandation of easyJet in Berlin. According to Berlin Airport easyjet plans to base a total of 20 aircrafts in Berlin within 2 years. The easyJet terminal (Terminal B) will be expanded!

20 a/c, how many do they have now? I rekcon quite a few already, looking at the network from SXF (although, granted, it is fairly low frequency).

But aren't they gonna get in trouble with Germanwings and AB? I mean, let's face it, Berlin is not THE business destination in the country, and tourism is pretty seasonal. Will there be room for that much more?

Btw, SXF is quite an awful airport IMO! Was there last Saturday, really getting more ugly and un-charming each time I go there. Really fitting the low-cost image, I guess, but still, funny that it has the mix of LCCs, charters and regulars, including TK.

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

SXF is going through a 'Luton Airport' transformation - i.e. very old, inadequate buildings, being supplemented by a big tin shed.  Smile

Actually, the wackiest thing about SXF is that, when you arrive on the gates round to the NW side, you go into the building, but then have to go back OUTSIDE again, to get to the passport control (for non-Schengen flights). I'm assuming they're going to fix that one day...?!

The last time I was there the viewing terrace was (temporarily?) closed - I hope it's open the next time, with all those sqeezy-jets to watch... Otherwise there's not much chance of seeing any action besides the Moevenpick restaurant, and that can be expensive if you want to sit by the window for a few hours.

PhiL P



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 1):
20 a/c, how many do they have now?

They currently have 8 aircraft based at SXF. ( http://www.easyjet.com/common/img/investor_pres_YE_FINAL.pdf , page 25)

20 is quite a few: LGW will receive it's 20th aircraft this summer, Luton has 17 a/c, STN 13. Indeed, Berlin is not *the* business destination of Germany, but it's fairly growing. Besides that, it's a huge outbound market, with a growing disposable income in the Brandenburg region there's a whole lot of outbound traffic.

Also, it doesn't have too much competition. TXL and SXF together serve almost the whole former East-Germany; LEJ, DRS and AOC only have a limited offer; so SXF has a large catchment area.


User currently offlineLindy Field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3103 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3657 times:
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Quote:
Also, it doesn't have too much competition. TXL and SXF together serve almost the whole former East-Germany; LEJ, DRS and AOC only have a limited offer; so SXF has a large catchment area.

I would add that quite a number of Poles from the Western parts of Poland travel through Berlin which offers many more flights (and some which may be cheaper) than Polish airports such as Szczecin and Poznan.


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 2):
Otherwise there's not much chance of seeing any action besides the Moevenpick restaurant,

Is that the little crappy place in that old train car just between the two terminals? Never been in there, looks almost scary!..

Quoting Joost (Reply 3):
20 is quite a few:

I guess it is after all, with the low frequencies you can make quite an impressive route map with so relatively few a/c - thought they had a lot more in London!

Quoting Joost (Reply 3):
LEJ, DRS and AOC only have a limited offer

LEJ indeed.. it's really sad I think; one heck of a beatiful airport with the nicest facilities, fast trains direct to Leipzig and Halle, all the parking space in the world.. and NO traffic at all.. really sad, such a waste of good airport..

Kevin777  Smile



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 4):
I would add that quite a number of Poles from the Western parts of Poland travel through Berlin which offers many more flights (and some which may be cheaper) than Polish airports such as Szczecin and Poznan.

You are absolutely right; the offer of flights from these airports in western Poland is very limited and often driving to SXF is a lot cheaper than connecting through WAW or FRA.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 5):
I guess it is after all, with the low frequencies you can make quite an impressive route map with so relatively few a/c - thought they had a lot more in London!

And here easyJet still usually has higher frequencies than Ryanair! The majority of the U2 flights from SXF have a daily frequency and many, including BSL, MAD and LGW are 2 or 3 daily (as is LTN, but that's a LTN-aircraft). A bit off-topic, but some numbers for the FR map: GRO: 7 a/c; CIA: 5; BRU: 4; PSA: 4; MAD: 3, MRS, BRE, NRN: 2.


User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1198 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

I think easyJet is looking to develop SXF in there second biggest Base after LGW , LGW has this summer 27 airplanes based ! SXF has this summer 10 a/c !
New routes could be : AMS 2x D / BRU 2xD / ALC D / FAO D / IST D (nightflight) / SKG D / DME D / WAW D / PRG 2x D / LJU D / ZRH 2xD / NCL D / SUF D / IBZ D

D= Daily
2xD= 2x Daily



Fly easyJet
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

Good news indeed. Growing competition is good for us customers in the region.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 1):
I mean, let's face it, Berlin is not THE business destination in the country, and tourism is pretty seasonal.

As far as I know business travellers aren't U2's main target group.
Tourism is a growing market in the region with neat growth rates and cheap booze tourism from Denmark and other Scandinavian countries is a year round business  Wink

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 2):
SXF is going through a 'Luton Airport' transformation - i.e. very old, inadequate buildings, being supplemented by a big tin shed.

I can't judge Luton but the new BBI will be definately not just a tin shed. After all it will be the only airport of Germany's capital and therefore also used by officials..

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 4):
I would add that quite a number of Poles from the Western parts of Poland travel through Berlin

Indeed there are quite a few travellers from Poland who use SXF.

pelican


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

This will give some hair-scratching to do for Air Berlin...
With so many aircraft based in Berlin, we'll end up having an over-offer and not enough passenger demand.
Germanwings,Easyjet,Air Berlin,Tuifly....
Considering Air Berlin still awaiting more than 70 aircraft,you wonder where they will be stationed..
If Easyjet wants 20 aircraft in Schönefeld and Air Berlin will have -at term-at least another 20-25 aircraft in Berlin (ultimately all in BBI..),you need some heck of tarmac surface.
Add Berlin- based aircraft from Germanwings,Tuifly,the ones from Lufthansa,overnight from foreign airlines,you need space for about 80 - 100 aircraft.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 7):
I think easyJet is looking to develop SXF in there second biggest Base after LGW , LGW has this summer 27 airplanes based ! SXF has this summer 10 a/c !

Where did you get these numbers from? The PDF I posted in post 3 mentiond 20 a/c for LGW for sept 07, and 8 for SXF. They also mention 6 'tactical' a/c, basically meaning that this is still undecided. But of course, this document is already 5 months old, a lifetime in today's aviation world. Where did you get your info from?

For the routes you mention, I'm a bit sceptical.
AMS: AB tried and failed, after facing competition from HV. Now I expect U2 to have a lower cost structure than AB and thus might be better competing (also from a cheaper airport), but I wouldn't hold my breath.

IST: Well, if they fly there it's SAW, but I don't see it for next summer. Reason: they don't have traffic rights, as a British company. They currently only serve Turkey from the UK and Switzerland - countries where they are registred. There are rumours though, that easyJet is considering creating a 3rd (German) company in order to operate Germany-Turkey flights. I also expect an open-skies treaty (like the one with Morocco or the US) between Europe and Turkey to be in place within 1 or 2 years, but AFAIK there aren't any final-stage negotiations yet.

PRG: If my memory serves me right they did serve it 2 years ago but withdrew it - it's likely too close.

DME: Traffic rights issue too

FAO and ALC are very likely, IMO, and what about SPU, RJK or any of the French airports (BOD, TLS, LYS, MRS)?

Quoting Pelican (Reply 8):
As far as I know business travellers aren't U2's main target group.

It's difficult to define 'main target group' as it depends from route to route; but overall a large fraction of their seats are sold to business travelers, and their current policy is targeting business travelers more and more, especially on routes from and to LGW, MAD, CDG, AMS, MXP. In the PDF I referred to in post 3 they mention quite some promotions and conditions to lure business travelers, mostly on the 3+ daily routes.


User currently offlineRivet42 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 818 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3204 times:

... I presume when Brandenburg International is finished, it won't be 'BBI', as that shows up in the hotlink as Bhubaneswar, India...!!

The Moevenpick restaurant is upstairs in the old terminal, behind the viewing deck, although it is accessed from the right-hand end of the floor (the viewing deck entrance is at the left-hand end as you go up the escalator). That's from about a year ago, so if anyone has an update...  Smile

PhiL P



I travel, therefore I am.
User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3106 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 8):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 1):
I mean, let's face it, Berlin is not THE business destination in the country, and tourism is pretty seasonal.

As far as I know business travellers aren't U2's main target group.

Actually, even if the airline does have low frequencies and no perks for biz pax, they do significantly target c-pax as noted above also. Another thing seperating them from FR.. For instance, they sell lounge access along with your ticket, and speedy boarding is targeted at C-pax specifically.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 8):
Tourism is a growing market in the region with neat growth rates and cheap booze tourism from Denmark and other Scandinavian countries is a year round business

No argument there! And many Danes are buying cheap property in Berlin (it costs a fraction of property in Copenhagen). But the problem is, that these pax won't pay more than 30 Euros for their flight - doesn't add the butter to the bread for any airline.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
With so many aircraft based in Berlin, we'll end up having an over-offer and not enough passenger demand.
Germanwings,Easyjet,Air Berlin,Tuifly....

I'd suspect you're very right there... And in particular, overcapacity in a low-yield market, because business traffic is relatively small, still.

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 12):
Another thing seperating them from FR.. For instance, they sell lounge access along with your ticket, and speedy boarding is targeted at C-pax specifically.

Interesting that to support your argument, you mention two services also offered by Ryanair  Wink

What easyJet does offer to lure the business passengers is the condition that:
- when you arrive early at the airport, you can take an earlier flight for free when there are seats available;
- when you arrive late, but within 2 hours after the scheduled departure time, you can (if places available) take a later flight for only a fixed surcharge of (IIRC) 30 euros.

I wonder (but have no data) whether speedy boarding is specifically targeted at business travelers. I have the impression that it's used by all different kinds of passengers, except maybe the real bargain-shoppers; but you also see families with children or just groups of people that want to sit together. The price (under 10 euros) is not of the magnitude that you need the corporate credit card to afford it  Wink

Besides that, the appeal of a certain route to business travelers relies mostly on frequencies and timings. Also Ryanair does carry a lot of business traffic on it's high-frequency trunk routes, like DUB-STN, PIK-STN, BGY-STN, etc.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 12):
And in particular, overcapacity in a low-yield market, because business traffic is relatively small, still.

And therefore, it's a LCC market. The average fare per seat for easyJet (the price they make a profit on) thoughout the network is around 65 euros. Somehwat less for a BFS-LPL hop, somewhat more for LGW-ATH. However, 65 euros seems quite doable for a lot of vacation traffic.

My opinion is that Brandenburg will be an airport that can be compared with BCN: large airport, large passenger numbers. Mostly used by LCCs that are based at the airport, and some high-frequency high-capacity routes to the international gateways (LHR FRA CDG AMS MXP MAD), and some routes to the US hub, as well as some routes to DXB or other middle-eastern hubs.


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 12):
Another thing seperating them from FR.. For instance, they sell lounge access along with your ticket, and speedy boarding is targeted at C-pax specifically.

Interesting that to support your argument, you mention two services also offered by Ryanair

Got me there, didn't know FR offered that - but how many airports with lounges (not including tea stalls) does FR serve anyway?? Two?

Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
you also see families with children

These are given priority for free, also for larger children... I can even take my 12-year old littlesister with me through speedy boarding for free

I have no data to support that speedy boarding is targeted at C-pax, but it does seem so, I reckon. Looking at the ads for speedy boarding, it shows a suit jumping the line. C-pax show up later for the flight, hence they are likely to be default seated in C and D groups; makes for a good market.

Of course others than biz pax use speedy boarding, yet, while 10 Euros isn't much, I tell you it's a lot for today's cheap short-haul leisure air traveller! Leisure pax go through all kinds of hell to save 2 Euros on their plane journey; most of them sure as hell aren't gonna "waste" money on speedy boarding!  Smile

Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
And therefore, it's a LCC market. The average fare per seat for easyJet (the price they make a profit on) thoughout the network is around 65 euros. Somehwat less for a BFS-LPL hop, somewhat more for LGW-ATH. However, 65 euros seems quite doable for a lot of vacation traffic.

65 does seem doable, I agree, but just to take an example, CPH-SXF rarely comes above this level (granted, it is a bit shorter than average) unless you're within 5-7 days of departure - at this point, most people have booked their ticket. Low yield markets are, granted, probably better markets for LCCs than others, but with half your customers only buying at lead-in fare, it's still not good enough - LCC or not.

Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
My opinion is that Brandenburg will be an airport that can be compared with BCN: large airport, large passenger numbers. Mostly used by LCCs that are based at the airport, and some high-frequency high-capacity routes to the international gateways (LHR FRA CDG AMS MXP MAD), and some routes to the US hub, as well as some routes to DXB or other middle-eastern hubs.

Absolute agree with you here, it will eventually - it'll have to I might say - but I'd also say let's give it another 10 years, at least..

Kevin777  Wink



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 14):
Got me there, didn't know FR offered that - but how many airports with lounges (not including tea stalls) does FR serve anyway?? Two?

Haha, well, quite a few. Interesting enough, they only seem to have a deal for the UK airports via a partner (but that's no different than easyJet or SkyEurope).

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 14):
These are given priority for free, also for larger children... I can even take my 12-year old littlesister with me through speedy boarding for free

Ah, I wasn't aware that easyJet still used this polite method. Ryanair, though, does officially not pre-board anyone for free - also for the babies you have to pay. Last March at GRO, I encountered discussions between crew and pax with infants that they couldn't pre-board without having payed for it. Whether that's a wise policy, I don't know.


User currently offlineKevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting Joost (Reply 15):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 14):
These are given priority for free, also for larger children... I can even take my 12-year old littlesister with me through speedy boarding for free

Ah, I wasn't aware that easyJet still used this polite method. Ryanair, though, does officially not pre-board anyone for free - also for the babies you have to pay. Last March at GRO, I encountered discussions between crew and pax with infants that they couldn't pre-board without having payed for it. Whether that's a wise policy, I don't know.

It's almost as if FR want the poor reputation.. That is so low.. But hey, they're making money I guess..

As for U2 though, I must also say they might be a bit too gentle here.. The last two times I've flown SXF-CPH, I reckon at least 20-25 people were pre-boarded; almost all of them families, some of them with children well in to the school age, perfectly capable of boarding "on normal terms"

Kevin777  Wink



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
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